Rangers fans continued

[garydavidson]

i could not find the topic that is was being discussed on but here is somewhat of an update!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4876118.stm

it does not mention any of the songs from the home legs - which i thougt was the initial problem?

looks like they will get away with arguing that Villarreal never planned it properly becuase of "violation of Uefa security instructions"

[Victor]

That is a total disgrace. Just when it looked like sensibility was going to take over at long last. They must have had OJ's legal team backing them.

I feel an email to EUFA coming on....

[TheBigCheese]

Yep, total nonsense, another case of all mouth and no trousers from UEFA. :evil:

[Saintkev]

Here is the UEFA Disciplinary Committee after their decision...

http://www.redflag.org.uk/photos/NImarchers.jpg

[garydavidson]

Here is the UEFA Disciplinary Committee after their decision...

http://www.redflag.org.uk/photos/NImarchers.jpg

that must be the office juniors that do all the running about - the guys in UEFA are fatter and balder!

[Victor]

Here is the UEFA Disciplinary Committee after their decision...
Excellent Kev! :***:

[perthsaint1884]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4907724.stm

[Victor]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4907724.stm
I have only been able to read part of this as I am so flamming angry...and ive had a couple of beers.

So angry that the first point is that the Scots have done sod all about it for years, so basically its ok. Aaaaarrrggghhhhh. This is a massive slap in the face for we who have been complaining about sectarianism for decades and a big pat on the back for the drongos who say its not a problem...a few who are on here I dread to say. Well done guys, your attitude has helped place us as a sectarian accepting country. I hope you are proud of yourselves.

Its also is a major comdenation of the SFA, SPL, Scottish League, Scottish Parliament, Westminster Parliament and a million Goody Goody PC organisations who have been too scared to address the issue, too involved as they are OF supporters or treated so called 'national' issues that were not a Scottish problem but basically an English problem as more pressing than our every day, on our doorstep Sectarianism.

Its also says that EUFA and FIFA are pathetic..toothless tigers who have blown a major opportunity to erradicate a cancer. They are basically saying that we are a small tribalistic country with a problem that is basically within our borders so why should the big boys give a damn?Youve put up with it, live with it, we are just not bothered. We might be one day if it becomes a cool trendy issue though.

Its akin to Blair doing sod all about Zimbabwe but going into Iraq; the world ignoring Chinas human rights issues to give them the Olympics or the US blaming Palastine for the worlds problems but ignoring Israel.

I am so angry :x :x :x

[garydavidson]

i am also very pissed off - i like it how a problem involving another country has become 'a scotish problem' just as much as it for those in Northern Ireland . I am sick of these small minded biggots and truly wish they would go read the bible or go to church - if they want to be the way they believe they are then they should live by the rules of their chosen religon!

The amount of these mindless idiots that claim to be protestant or catholic astounds me! They are nothing of the sort - none live by the rules set out in their respective versions of their religon - many dont even know the laws!

and the fact football has become involved in it is just stupid.grrr

There is no easy way to tackle this subject but UEFA doing nothing about it does not help! the ruling also means that this can never be tried agian because of the wording used in the final statement! or so they said something like that on the news!

a complete farce!

[blueheaven]

I don't know what you're all moaning about - the Old Firm are great for Scottish football, fantastic for Scotland's image, and their supporters are all really nice people. FACT.


:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Finners]

i agree with you garydavidson. Those bigots THINK they are following their religion but they are not!!

In my eyes (Im not religious at all) the average christian (i dont like to generalise) is someone who wants to make a connection with god and put OTHERS first, these bigots are doing nothing of the sort

[garydavidson]

yeah i remember one time i stayed at a friends who lived near Strathclyde University in glasgow and we were rather hung over and got woken up by an orange march. we went out to see what all the noise was and a bunch of these so called religious 'orange men' marched down to a church a few went in for the service but most of them went back the way them came!

thats gone a bit off the football topic :)

[garydavidson]

oh just strolled across this http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/tm_objectid=16947540%26method=full%26siteid=66633% 26headline=shut%2dit%2dor%2dwe%2dll%2dshut%2dyou%2 ddown-name_page.html

[perthsaint1884]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4909508.stm


this aswell, they dont have a clue what they are doing, why would you have to appeal your own decision, they should get ti right the first time, it just makes them look like even bigger idiots

[Victor]

oh just strolled across this http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/tm_objectid=16947540%26method=full%26siteid=66633% 26headline=shut%2dit%2dor%2dwe%2dll%2dshut%2dyou%2 ddown-name_page.html
More namby pamby nonsense. They are going to do sod all about it.

So The Sash isnt Sectarian??? If they are going to start treating things in a literal sense then they have to immediately stop arresting people for being racist when they use the word black as an adjective.

Dont they know the expression..Its not what you do, its the way that you do it? :x

[Victor]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4909508.stm

Well looks like we shall be up against both of the OF next season then. There are more than 3 games to go this season so going by these new rules there will be no option but to relegate them within the next 4 weeks.

Yeh right.

[garydavidson]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/tm_objectid=16949239%26method=full%26siteid=66633% 26headline=eck%2d%2dwe%2dcan%2dbeat%2dbigots-name_page.html

more talk - is there actually going to be any action though?

[perthsaint1884]

why is mcleish saying it, he wont be there much longer to do anything about it

[garydavidson]

i think it was just because a reporter asked him the question when he was talking to reporters about the run up to the aberdeen game.

[mainstand]

So The Sash isnt Sectarian??? If they are going to start treating things in a literal sense then they have to immediately stop arresting people for being racist when they use the word black as an adjective.

The sad thing is that somone was lt off in court last year because the judge ruled that it wasn't.

[Ronaldo]

Its also is a major comdenation of the SFA, SPL, Scottish League, Scottish Parliament, Westminster Parliament and a million Goody Goody PC organisations who have been too scared to address the issue, too involved as they are OF supporters or treated so called 'national' issues that were not a Scottish problem but basically an English problem as more pressing than our every day, on our doorstep Sectarianism.

I think that's the main point EUFA and now FIFA are trying to get across. They are in a sense firing a warning shot across our football clubs (primarily the old firm) and our football associations. I include both old firm clubs because Celtic are as bad and will be brought in as time goes on. It's a yellow card because at the moment EUFA don't want to be seen as the giant European organisation or world organisation telling people what to do at a local level since you know how some people react to that :roll: They are hoping that our football associations now pick up the baton locally. There is no doubt this is only the start. This should have been acted upon years ago in the west of Scotland.

I really hate the way that the old firm have wanted to get out of Scottish football to achieve what they call the ambition of their clubs to play at a higher level (England or Europe) yet we all know they have been rejected from the Premiership because of this background (20 to 0) and are now being told by Europe this is unacceptable. Yet when they are in difficulty because of this issue they suddenly become Scottish and we hear phrases like 'it would be wrong for EUFA to pick on a smaller nation as an example'. Other country's clubs have had to play behind closed doors (e.g. Juventus) and had points deductions because the authorities have acted. I also hate the fact that the whole of Scotland is tarred with the same brush when we know that 90% of this is in the west of Scotland and that only a small number from the rest of Scotland seem to relate to this shallow crap.

They have only existed and prospered because Scotland and its institutions have allowed them to.

The union jack or Irish flag are not offensive if when it is used in a national event but it is when one club or entity like the National Front shove it into your face to back up their twisted views of what these flags mean. I am British but I HATE people using that flag for narrow religious/political points.

When I first seen the old firm as a young kid at Muirton Park (Ormond's days) I didn't have a clue what it was all about and today I am not any clearer. Of course I have a general idea but it still seems totally pointless and not worth this degree of conflict in Scotland.

Of course we should debate about creationism versus evolution, the separation of church and state, what does being Scottish or Britishness mean but what goes on in Glasgow is a real sign that our education system and constitution is failing and has failed, otherwise that location would not have these problems.

First of all discuss the existence or not of a possible God, then if that God really is the Christian God, before assaulting and killing each other at the tax payers expense (most of whom are non believers).

What an embarrassment. :roll:

Here endeth my Easter sermon. :***:

[mainstand]

I think just blaming the OF is half of the problem.

Hearts have problems, Dundee have problems, Airdrie have problems to name but a few. We have to get away from this blame game and start working together to sort out the problem, and when I say together I mean everyone. That solution doesn't just lie with the Executive or anyone else but it lies with the families and taht is a hard one to resolve.

As for flags, I don't get it, A flag is a flag it is not offensive be it the Union jack, teh Tricolour, the trinidad and Tobago flag etc etc. If you start looking at flags then the SNP are as bad as the BNP as they flaunt the Scottish flag around as if it is only SNP followers that are patriotic.

[Ronaldo]

I think just blaming the OF is half of the problem.
.
That's the standard tactic which makes Scotland a laughing stock.
Spread the blame, diffuse the problem and imply it's all a matter for everybody.
We'v e heard it for years. :***:

DON'T BLAME THE WHOLE OF SCOTLAND !!! and don't mention we/us because I haven't a clue what it's about. It's a specific problem not a general problem.

What an embarrassment.

[mainstand]

I think just blaming the OF is half of the problem.
.
That's the standard tactic which makes Scotland a laughing stock.
Spread the blame, diffuse the problem and imply it's all a matter for everybody.
We'v e heard it for years. :***:

DON'T BLAME THE WHOLE OF SCOTLAND !!! and don't mention we/us because I haven't a clue what it's about. It's a specific problem not a general problem.

What an embarrassment.

The fans taht go to these matches don't all come from Glasgow, so it is a SCOTTISH problem.

Get off of your OF soap box and realise taht we as a nation have to stamp on it. And yes the OF can do more by stopping the singing and banning those taht do and I hope they do. Should be interesting to hear what happens at teh OF game on Sunday and jus how many arrsts there are.

[Steve Maskrey]

The quicker the SFA adjust their constitution to deal with this then the better it will be. If the OF are serious about wanting rid of all the sectarianism linked with them, then the threat of fines, bans etc will be a test of their success in the matter.

While it is a nationwide problem, the OF, like it or not, have a huge influence on this. For too long, both clubs have tolerated the sectarian element and have marginally succeeded in tackling the issue. If either or both clubs are penalised on this issue then they will have no choice but to take a hard line on those who cause the problems. I'm sure this will have a knock-on effect around the country.

As others have said, most people who take part in sectarian chants or events are not religious and unlikely to attend church. You will probably find that those who sing God Save The Queen at Rangers games would no doubt jeer if it was played at a Scotland V England match at Hampden.

Everyone is entitled to their views on religion whatever their faith but this has no place at a football match and should never be forced upon others anywhere else in society.

Amen :wink:

[Ronaldo]

I think just blaming the OF is half of the problem.
.
That's the standard tactic which makes Scotland a laughing stock.
Spread the blame, diffuse the problem and imply it's all a matter for everybody.
We'v e heard it for years. :***:

DON'T BLAME THE WHOLE OF SCOTLAND !!! and don't mention we/us because I haven't a clue what it's about. It's a specific problem not a general problem.

What an embarrassment.

The fans taht go to these matches don't all come from Glasgow, so it is a SCOTTISH problem. .
If the bath overflows and the bath water soaks the bathroom floor tiles then it is not the bathroom tiles that are the source of the problem. They are the poor souls that have been affected and not the cause.


Get off of your OF soap box...... .
If only the OF had soap. :)

teh OF game on Sunday
Just like Billy Connolly said tonight I'll not be watching/listening to it, I'm doing my bit for anti bigotry.


and jus how many arrsts there are.
Trust me there will be 60000 arrsts there !!!


When Saints dom't play the OF I don't notice it with any other club. I have heard us sing the opposite of Rangers one week and the opposite of Celtic the next week as an antagonistic gesture but once again that's because of them (the bath overflow). There would be no problem greater than any other country if it weren't for the OF.

[mainstand]

[] teh OF game on Sunday
Just like Billy Connolly said tonight I'll not be watching/listening to it, I'm doing my bit for anti bigotry.

That's nothing to do with anti bigotry!!! Taht's just you being your normal anti OF. And if you are now trying to say that anyone watching it or supporting either side are bigoted then you are IMO well off the mark.


and jus how many arrsts there are.
Trust me there will be 60000 arrsts there !!!


When Saints dom't play the OF I don't notice it with any other club. I have heard us sing the opposite of Rangers one week and the opposite of Celtic the next week as an antagonistic gesture but once again that's because of them (the bath overflow). There would be no problem greater than any other country if it weren't for the OF.

Hearts have admitted they have a problem and have started trying to ban the UVF and BNP banners taht they have had at games. Look at the Chelsea headhunters website and they talk about the Hearts Loyalists. Airdrie have a problem with a group something Jim Traynor admitted last night on BBC Radio.

[Ronaldo]

teh OF game on Sunday

Just like Billy Connolly said tonight I'll not be watching/listening to it, I'm doing my bit for anti bigotry.


That's nothing to do with anti bigotry!!! Taht's just you being your normal anti OF. And if you are now trying to say that anyone watching it or supporting either side are bigoted then you are IMO well off the mark.


Anti old firm is anti bigot in my book, I don't see them as mutually exclusive. You obviously don't know me, I've been consistent about this all my life. I haven't watched an old firm game for years, I don't see what's so great about the event. Maybe from a psychiatrist's point of view it might be interesting, or maybe even a historian's point of view witnessing the hatred that existed in religious torn1600's Ireland but not really otherwise. By the way the last battle fought in the British Isles was Culloden but you guys love your Irish history and of course why not bring it over here.

As a football match it certainly is a curiosity piece and contrary to what you believe is representative of life in the west of Scotland. Having said that I don't believe that all people in the west of Scotland are bigots, some probably watch other smaller teams or do other things. I'm personally thinking of doing other things too now since over time this whole thing has become nauseating and will continue because of people like yourself without any hope of going away. Jim Duffy said on '90 Minutes' that at Sportsmen's Dinners or evenings when he was at Dundee any jokes by a speaker from the west coast on the sectarian divide went down like a leaf balloon, totally flat.


and jus how many arrsts there are.
Trust me there will be 60000 arrsts there !!!

When Saints don't play the OF I don't notice it with any other club. I have heard us sing the opposite of Rangers one week and the opposite of Celtic the next week as an antagonistic gesture but once again that's because of them (the bath overflow). There would be no problem greater than any other country if it weren't for the OF.

Hearts have admitted they have a problem and have started trying to ban the UVF and BNP banners taht they have had at games. Look at the Chelsea headhunters website and they talk about the Hearts Loyalists. Airdrie have a problem with a group something Jim Traynor admitted last night on BBC Radio.

You're doing it again, you're minimising the problem at the old firm and maximising the problems elsewhere to deflect the attention off the OF. The problems elsewhere in Scotland are manageable. When I have seen the OF at McD, Muirton, Hampden and elsewhere through the years (and that's a lot) it is not just a small section of their support that sing these songs it's the huge majority all the way round their part of the ground. To actually think the way that you do is in fact the problem - it's called ignorance (to ignore). I can see EUFA/FIFA giving the associations a chance to be punitive (3 point deduction, then 6 point deduction, then closed door games, relegation) but it would be unfair to ban the national side because people like you have lumped us all in with them.

I'm surprised you don't see a problem, it stares most people in the face and not just the rest of Scotland but internationally. :)

[mainstand]

I'm personally thinking of doing other things too now since over time this whole thing has become nauseating and will continue because of people like yourself without any hope of going away. Jim Duffy said on '90 Minutes' that at Sportsmen's Dinners or evenings when he was at Dundee any jokes by a speaker from the west coast on the sectarian divide went down like a leaf balloon, totally flat.


What teh hell do you mean by "people like yourself". If you are trying to say I am a bigot then you are so wrong taht it is incredible. On Saturday morning I was at Parkhead getting autographs on a strip to raise money for kids in my area half of whom are Celtic fans and half of whom are Rangers fans, and this Friday I'll be taking a days holiday to go and do the same at Murray Park. By bringing these kids together to sort out the problem than your bull of not watching the game. I actually was told by a Saints fan that they had Donald Findlay at a dinner at Perth and he was brilliant got a standing ovation but was quite orange at times.



[quote="Ronaldo"]You're doing it again, you're minimising the problem at the old firm and maximising the problems elsewhere to deflect the attention off the OF. The problems elsewhere in Scotland are manageable. When I have seen the OF at McD, Muirton, Hampden and elsewhere through the years (and that's a lot) it is not just a small section of their support that sing these songs it's the huge majority all the way round their part of the ground. To actually think the way that you do is in fact the problem - it's called ignorance (to ignore). I can see EUFA/FIFA giving the associations a chance to be punitive (3 point deduction, then 6 point deduction, then closed door games, relegation) but it would be unfair to ban the national side because people like you have lumped us all in with them.[quote]


I'll resist the personal insults in my posts if you were as bright as you make out you would be able to as well.

I am and have never ignored the problem, I have already said that there is a problem but in my mind it does not just sit with the football, and yes the majority of teh clowns in society follow these teams but that does not mean taht the problem is therefore exclusive to these Clubs. How many of those singing these songs are singing without knowing the meaning?? What I think it needs is for the kids to be educated and in time that will help maybe iam naieve but not ignorant as you so put it.

We'll agree to disagree on this one :roll:

[Ronaldo]

I thought you might ask what a leaf balloon was? :***:

Same old story Mainstand. <yawn?
We hear about all these initiatives and of course they've been going on for decades - many of them are image before substance and are there to take the flack away from these clubs.

By people like you I mean all those who take the flack off the OF and then come out with a whole list of reasons why they are not as bad as people make out and of course there are a lot of good (camouflage) initiatives being carried out. I think we need more direct punitive action and EUFA/FIFA might be the answer.

Call me cynical after decades of all this. :roll: