Saints vs. Clyde 05/08/06

[Dev]

Tomorrow's the big day! Being a sad football addict I've been waiting for this since the day the season finished. The World Cup was a nice distraction but this is what means the most to all of us.

For each game this season there is going to be one dedicated thread for match discussion - that includes pre-match team news and predictions, any score updates during the match and post-match discussion. It'll all be kept in one thread per match and then when the dust settles I'll move it to an archive forum to keep it safe.

Hopefully Saints can kick things off with three points and give us some confidence right from the start. I see no reason why we shouldn't be looking for a good result and performance here. Clyde are a team in turmoil and their team really doesn't look that strong - on paper at least. Mon the Saints!

[Radford 72]

Must be the first time ever we go into a match with no apparent injury concerns!

Shame about the suspensions as Owen won't be able to play his first-choice team but it gives others a chance to impress, most notably Mensing in midfield.

I expect us to line-up:

Halliwell

Weir - McManus - James

Lawrie - Mensing - Sheridan - Sheerin - Stanic

Scotland - Milne

Subs: Cuthbert, Dyer, Stevenson, MacDonald, Jackson.

I think in defence, and midfield especially, Clyde match us but we (now) have a much better 'keeper and much, much better options in attack; Dobbie and Coyle would probably get a game upfront for them at the moment.

I'm not convinced we're firing on all cylinders yet but the friendlies were about peaking tomorrow afternoon so it's nothing to be too worried about.

Two points I'd like to make are can we please cut out the booing at half-time if we aren't winning, it does no one any good and I wasn't surprised to hear it at Stirling last week, and also, if we lose tomorrow, it isn't the end of the world. Indeed, the last three champions of this division have all lost their opening day match!

It would be great if everyone that can gets along to the game tomorrow. I know there are other things on in the town during the day but it could make a big difference if the players see the fans have some faith in them.

Common the blues!

[David]

Off the back of unearthing two more believers on a work night out in Dundee...

COME ON YE SAINTS

[Radford 72]

Common the blues!
I've not even had a drink! :shock:

[208saint]

Halliwell
Lawrie James McManus Stanic

Mensing Sheridan Young Sheerin


Scotland Milne

I know we haven't played a 4-4-2 in pre season just can't help but think that due to the personel he may go with it tomorrow. If Young doesn't play I reckon he might go with Stevo on the right and Simon in the middle

[KG-Saint]

isnt mensing suspended aswell??

halliwell

weir mcManus james

lawrie stevenson sheriden sheerin stanic

scotland MacDonald

[True Saintee]

isnt mensing suspended aswell??


No.

_____________Halliwell

Lawrie Mcmanus James (c) Stanic

Stevenson Mensing Sheridan Sheerin

__________ Scotland Milne

... is how I'd like us to line up... Althought I think we'll line up with what Radfords said.

[Ronaldo]

OH WHEN THE SAINTS!
OH WHEN THE SAINTS!
OH WHEN THE SAINTS GO MARCHING IN,
I WANNA BE IN THAT NUMBER,
OH WHEN THE SAINTS GO MARCHING IN.

--------------------- Haliwell -----------------------
Lawrie ------ McManus --------- James ------ Stanic -
Mensing ---- Sheridan --------- Young ------- Sheerin -
------------Scotland ---------------------------
----------------------------- Milne ---------------

GO!

[dave mc]

Hope we play 4-4-2,but can't see it so-


Halliwell

Mensing McManus James

Lawrie Sheridan Sheerin Stanic

Scotland

McDonald Milne

[slf]

mon the blues

[Hazel1884]

I am looking forward to this, my anticipation wasn't as high as other people's until last night in the Bucket i got chatting to a few Saints fans and finally realised that it was only two sleeps till the big kick off!

Fair looking forward to getting back into a routine on a Saturday and being back at McDiarmid. Will prob feel like i haven't been away, but cannae wait! :D

besides, we HAVE to win - i'm getting on the Clyde supporters bus straight after the match! :***: :oops: :***: :oops:

Not quite sure how he will line up, however i would prob suspect Radders has Coyles line up posted above.

Mon the bluuuuuuuuuues! 8)

[lethamsaintee]

all the lads and lasses smiles upon their faces
walking doon the dunkeld road, to see the muirton aces
away the lads you should of us seen us coming
only here to drink yer beer and ...............................

Anyway, the game - i feel the 3 points are a big big thing. some folk are saying it doesnt matter, but psychologically we must not fall behind the likes of gretna,we must hit the ground running.
im hoping for a good solid performance, with a nice 2-0 win or somethimg like that.

i do believe though that our system is the key. play 3-5-2 and we may well struggle, play 4-4-2,or even 4-3-1-2 and we will take the 3 points.

we should line up as follows

gk - geri
rb - mensing
lb - gordon fae tulloch ( he was sick of newhouse rd,so asked the toon fur a move, )

cb - le freak
cb - mcmanus

lm - peanut
cm - shezza
rm - lawrie

am - jase

f - savo
f - peaso

rub-a-dubs - stevie ryanson, The OC, dyer, weir , the cat

and come on you bassas, get yer arse up the park and get supporting the saintees.

[Radford 72]

After posting that 3-5-2, I wonder if the whole Jim Weir thing is just a ploy and he's never had any intention of playing? I like the look of Dave's line-up and I think it would send a message out to the whole league about the options we have in attack.

[dave mc]

That was my thinking Radford,my 11 gives us plenty defensive players ,but being at home i feel we should be being more offensive and take the games to the opponents,which the extra attacker does.Hope OC logs on before kick-off! :***:

[Chuck Norris]

gk - geri
rb - mensing
lb - gordon fae tulloch ( he was sick of newhouse rd,so asked the toon fur a move, )

cb - le freak
cb - mcmanus

lm - peanut
cm - shezza
rm - lawrie

am - jase

f - savo
f - peaso

rub-a-dubs - stevie ryanson, The OC, dyer, weir , the cat
I think we need a return of the nickname translator.

[Broon]

gk - Halliwell
rb - Mensing
lb - Stanic
cb - James
cb - McManus

lm - Sheerin
cm - Sheridan
rm - Lawrie

am - scotland

f - Milne
f - McDonald

rub-a-dubs - Stevenson, Coyle, Dyer, Weir, Cuthbert


I think we need a return of the nickname translator. :***:

[blueheaven]

After posting that 3-5-2, I wonder if the whole Jim Weir thing is just a ploy and he's never had any intention of playing? I like the look of Dave's line-up and I think it would send a message out to the whole league about the options we have in attack.

I'd love to see us line-up like that too - I think playing all three of Scotland, Peaso & Milne would be a great way to start the season - but I can't see it happening. I can't see past it being...

____________Halliwell

_____Weir___McManus__James

Lawrie______________________Stanic

____Mensing__Sheridan__Sheerin

______Scotland_____Milne or Peaso

[Broon]

I'd be tempted to try and convert Milne into a winger - use some of that energy he has to good use. I don't rate him as a goalscorer but his work rate, tackling back and dribbling ability are excellent. I'd go for something like (4-4-2):

Halliwell

Lawrie James McManus Stanic

Milne Mensing Sheridan Sheerin

Scotland Peaso

[sAiNtE BrIaN]

were sticking with the good old 3 5 2 i think jiim weirs getting a game

[blueheaven]

I'd be tempted to try and convert Milne into a winger - use some of that energy he has to good use. I don't rate him as a goalscorer but his work rate, tackling back and dribbling ability are excellent. I'd go for something like (4-4-2)

I quite like that idea actually - I only wonder whether his final ball into the box would be good enough. Totally agree, though, that his strong point is running, not goalscoring.

[sAiNtE BrIaN]

I'd be tempted to try and convert Milne into a winger - use some of that energy he has to good use. I don't rate him as a goalscorer but his work rate, tackling back and dribbling ability are excellent. I'd go for something like (4-4-2)

I quite like that idea actually - I only wonder whether his final ball into the box would be good enough. Totally agree, though, that his strong point is running, not goalscoring.

would we not need three up front so scotland or peaso had some support because i dont think scotlands scored with his head yet ????

[pezza70]

A new season folks, and a new season of staring at the skysports ticker scoreboard for myself again at all hours of the morning:

Halliwell, Lawrie, MacManus, Weir, James, Stanic, Mensing, Sheridan, Sheerin, Milne, Scotland

MacDonald, Jackson, Trialist, Stevenson, Cuthbert

Let the fun begin

[Johnstoun]

Sheridan booked. What are the odds of that...

...Half Time 0-0

[pezza70]

Gretna are up 3 nil and it isnt half time as yet :(

[Shibbydoo]

Worrying Pezza ain't it? :cry:

[pezza70]

A good start by them, hopefully the second half will bring a few goals in our direction

[pezza70]

Weir off for the trialist 55th min

Savo off for Peaso 63rd min

Yellow cards thus far James, Mensing, Sheridan

[pezza70]

Full Time 0-0 :(

Other scores

Airdrie 0 RC 2

Dundee 0 Partick 1

Gretna 6 - Hamilton 0

Livingston 2 - QoS 0

[Scobby_SJFC]

A nightmare start to the season, the one thing we had to avoid was falling behind our rivals so early in the season and we did it!

[blueheaven]

A nightmare start to the season, the one thing we had to avoid was falling behind our rivals so early in the season and we did it!

Well short of expectations perhaps, but hardly a "nightmare start". Slight kneejerk reaction there, to say the least. Nobody really knows yet what Clyde are going to be like - 0-0's a decent, solid, but unspectacular result.

As it was, I thought Clyde looked pretty poor but we just couldn't seem to get into our stride to take advantage. A lot of our play seemed disjointed, and there was a lot of effort without much cohesion. To be honest I'm not sure Coyle picked the best team available, but I also think Hardie was a big miss in the middle of the park. Sheridan had a poor game & Mensing's just not a midfielder. Young looked decent when he came on, but I'm always a little reluctant to talk up trialists because it's often no real indication of how they'll play if they actually sign. To be honest I'm a little sceptical about whether he's what we need.

Scotland was a big disappointment for me today because he looked half-asleep and was also going to ground far too often. On today's performance, it certainly isn't the better aspects of the World Cup that have rubbed off on him. He need to give himself a shake, stop rolling about the ground, and start producing the goods. Still, I think OC was right to keep him on because he was the only one who might have got us a goal. Milne, on the other hand, is the exact opposite in every way, yet strangely it amounted to him being just as ineffective - he does the work of 11 men, yet I find it practically impossible to picture him actually scoring.

Far from the worst performance ever, but not the best either. I think Tuesday night should give us a valuable opportunity to get the suspended guys back in & iron out some of the problems that seemed apparent.

P.S. Gretna shmetna.

[Saintly Child]

Not good, the team could'nt pass the ball to a man or take a man on and move forward.
Scotland was piss poor so we took Savo off (Bad Move)
Only pass marks for Stanic and Young(Trialist) he seemed comfortable on the ball.

Still 3/4 players away from a good team.

Anymore of that crap and it will be a hard long season.

[Radford 72]

It's easy to panic in this situation but then you'd do well not to. I thought we looked poor and could easily have been two down at half-time. Fair enough we took control in the second-half but much like so many home games last season, when we were dominating there was far too much of a gap between the forwards and the midfield.

Defence looked shakey too so all-in-all a pretty disappointing start but it is just one game.

[Kevin]

Weir off for the trialist 55th min

Savo off for Peaso 63rd min

Yellow cards thus far James, Mensing, Sheridan

And Stanic also got one late on. I think Brian Winter was at a different game from the one I was at!!

[Kevin]

I would have liked to sdee the team slow the game down a wee bit and stop the panic passing and hoofing of the ball. Clyde came out the traps like a greyhound and we just followed them, unfortunately for us, Clyde were used to playing this type of game plan but we weren't :roll:

[mainstand]

Although we didn't play well we could easily have been 2 or 3 up at half time we missed a load of chances, I'm trying to think of any real saves that Halliwell had to make. lawrie should have burst the net at the end.

[Radford 72]

lawrie should have burst the net at the end.
Difficult situation for him as if he misses then everyone says he should have squared it. We had a very similar chance at Cowdenbeath when we were 2-0 up and Stevo shot and missed and Owen was furious with him as Jacko was looking for him to square it.

[SJC]

The result is not what we were looking for at all, but no surprise given the team. Jim Weir was knacked after the warm up and it's lucky he didn't cost us a goal.

Sheridan is too old now as well, in my opinion he was brilliant until December last season and struggled afterwards, all he does it kick the ball over the top of the defence now. His corners are garbage as well, never hits the same spot twice which is crazy when you have Kevin James in the box!

Lawrie had a nightmare at the end there- and hasn't impressed at all from what I've seen so far.

I hope we sign Young, a central midfield of him and Hardie should be good enough to make sure we're up there challenging at the very least.
Aside from the obvious, Milne was again below par while Stanic was blamed for all defensive mistakes again by Coyle and James.
Halliwell looked decent, good early shouts and attempted to organise the defence which was mission impossible today.

[Steve Maskrey]

We didn't really look like the team that were all fired up for the first game as OC suggested. I think Kevin's right in saying that Clyde set the tone for the match and Saints didn't look like breaking that game plan and dictate the game ourselves. Thankfully, Clyde were woeful in front of goal but at the same time, so were we so a draw's a fair result.

I'm not too worried about it as I think we'll be a much better organised side when Ruti and Hardie return from suspension, we definitely missed both of them. I'm not sure Weir's a great option so hopefully Ruti et al don't pick up too many suspensions/injuries this season. I think the East Fife game will be when we get the start of hopefully a settled, strong side for the best part of the season.

I thought Young looked quite good when he came on, he can read the game well and his link up play is quite good as well. Some will ask if he's any better than what we've got but on today's performance, I would say do we actually have any better than Young :?

[Dev]

I know its only the first game of the season so we should give them a chance to get things right but we were dreadful today. Rubbish in defence, rubbish in midfield and rubbish up front. Very, very disappointing.

So much for Paul Sheerin being a wizard - he was nowhere to be seen in the first half and even his much improved second half wasn't good enough. We were slow and clumsy throughout the side but particularly at the back.

I expected a team with as much physical strength as we have to really assert their authority on the match. We really struggled to put more than one consecutive pass together and it just looked like the whole balance of the side was wrong. Lawrie, Sheerin, Scotland and Milne really have to improve considerably if we're to make anything of this season and the rest of them also need to step things up. It looked today like we'd gone backwards over the summer!

I thought the trialist made a big improvement to the team today but I'm unsure as to whether he'd be a good signing or not. He showed far more creativity than Sheerin anyway.

Just shows how much we Ruti and Hardie back.

[blueheaven]

Scotland was piss poor so we took Savo off (Bad Move)

Have to disagree with that. Milne could have stayed on for 2 hours after everyone else had gone home, and still be playing now, and still probably wouldn't come anywhere near scoring a goal. His workrate is outstanding, but where does it get us? Scotland, on the other hand, can play badly for 89 minutes but still produce 1 moment of magic which can turn a draw into a win. It didn't happen today of course, but I'd still rather have Scotland on the pitch than Milne, so I think OC got that decision right.

In response to Dev's criticisms of Sheerin - I agree he had as poor a game as anyone today, but at least he & Stanic do appear to have a good partnership with each other, and were 2 of the few players today who seemed to be working together and linking up with each other. Compare that to the other side of the pitch, where nobody seemed interested in even passing the ball to Lawrie, let alone trying to work well with him. Today we saw nowhere near as much of the ball down that side as we do when Stevenson plays (and that's not a criticism of Laurie, but a criticism of those around him who seemed completely uninterested in giving him the ball).

[Aitchy]

Got to agree with the majiority of the posts, today wasnt good enough. Lethargic, uncommited and not willing to give 100% are all words that apply to certain players today, suprising considering its the start of the season. Overall though i wouldnt read too much into the game, as other "forumers" have said the return of Hardie and Ruti will make a difference. Hopefully Mr Coyle will be kcicking a few arses and we will witness a better performance next weekend down at Palmerston.

[Dev]

In response to Dev's criticisms of Sheerin - I agree he had as poor a game as anyone today, but at least he & Stanic do appear to have a good partnership with each other, and were 2 of the few players today who seemed to be working together and linking up with each other. Compare that to the other side of the pitch, where nobody seemed interested in even passing the ball to Lawrie, let alone trying to work well with him. Today we saw nowhere near as much of the ball down that side as we do when Stevenson plays (and that's not a criticism of Laurie, but a criticism of those around him who seemed completely uninterested in giving him the ball).

Fair point, I'd agree with that. I just find him a frustrating player who has a bad habit of hiding from the ball. He clearly can be a very good player but more often he's a bit of a shirker. I also detest this "wizard" pish! Guys who work hard for St Johnstone deserve nicknames like that - Paul Sheerin doesn't.

[McCarry One Nil]

Positives

Halliwell looked pretty confident - came for crosses and also the charge out of the box near the end i reckon the Clyde guy wasnae too sure about the 50-50 with him as he's a imposing keeper.

McManus played away OK

We created a lot of chances although a few admittedly were from set pieces - on another day and possibly with Hardie + A.N other we would have won 5-2.

Negatives

Darren had a quiet game and you do worry if its a season to far but is Derek Young the type to take over...we'll see

FOLK MOANING AFTER ONE GAME

Come on we'll get it together and give Gretna a good run - they got possibly the best game they could have got to open their season.

Nowhere near good enough but enough wee bits to see that we're not too far away from being a decent team.

[templeofsaints]

Thought it was pretty dire - we had plenty of chances but at the same time we were wide open at the back at times (Weir looked too slow and Lawrie didn't seem that mobile on the wing - certainly unable to win the ball or do much with it when he got it).

I thought Sheerin, Sheridan and Lawrie were all poor in midfield. We were far too static while Clyde were able to make room and spread the ball about the park. Savo tried but had little support and Jason took a while to get going although to be fair he usually had 2-3 Clyde guys marking him.

Pluses for me were James and McManus in defence, Stanic being as reliable as always, Mensing who I thought had a good solid game today and the introduction of Derek Young.

What really worries me though (and I don't think this is a panic reaction) is that other than the 3 suspended players, that was our strongest side out there today and at times they looked slow and as if they had never played together before. Marking was poor and the lack of pressure from Lawrie and Stanic in the 1st half has to lead to questions on Owen continuing with the 5-3-2 formation - certainly we missed Hardie in midfield and only really pressed from that area when Young was introduced.

[jinky]

FOLK MOANING AFTER ONE GAME


Balls, i wanted to be the first to complain about that!

All summer long this forum has been filled with negativity, and its sucked.
Todays game, the amount of folk i heard moaning at half time was crazy. Then just to get even more silly, the booing at full time. Get a grip!!!
What do these so called fans want???
1 game down, ok we have a few problems to iron out. We created a good few chances today and halliwell had not a save to make!

[mainstand]

lawrie should have burst the net at the end.
Difficult situation for him as if he misses then everyone says he should have squared it. We had a very similar chance at Cowdenbeath when we were 2-0 up and Stevo shot and missed and Owen was furious with him as Jacko was looking for him to square it.

If the players in the middle are clear and there are no defenders yes square it, but 30 seconds to go and the players in the middle being slightly in front of you, only one decision in my book you hit it. if the goalie makes a save you've done your bit.

[templeofsaints]

FOLK MOANING AFTER ONE GAME


Balls, i wanted to be the first to complain about that!

All summer long this forum has been filled with negativity, and its sucked.
Todays game, the amount of folk i heard moaning at half time was crazy. Then just to get even more silly, the booing at full time. Get a grip!!!
What do these so called fans want???
1 game down, ok we have a few problems to iron out. We created a good few chances today and halliwell had not a save to make!

Halliwell made a couple of saves but him and the defence were missing for a couple of gilt-edged chances that Clyde missed in the 1st half.

The reason there's been a fair bit of negativity on the forum is the lack of real improvement over last season. The friendlies have been against poorer-quality opposition and we've all criticised tactics or the lack of wingers / creative midfielders coming on the books - something which was noticable today as I thought we struggled on the flanks early on and in midfield.

As for what I want - well the odd piece of marking, passes that reach players, players willing to chase the ball and not stand whinging if they're challenged or lose the ball might do for a start. :)

[saint in exile]

Exilicity is sometimes a blessing in disguise.Sounds grim,same old story,get the youngsters in!Let`s face it everyone`s playing second fiddle to Gretna this season,never mind there`s always the season after that... :x

[Ronaldo]

Look, let's not panic!
We're only 2 points and 6 goals behind Gretna. If we extrapolate that out by the end of the season we should only be 72 points and 216 goals behind them with a total of 36 points which is not relegation material.

Can't wait for next season.

:wink:

[Two Js]

I don't think Jim Weir should play for Saints again. He was never a footballer but could always be relied on to put in some great tackles and shut out the opposition. Unfortunately he is now too slow to do that.

The midfield needs something different that, hopefully, Young might give us.

All in all I'm not too disappointed - we do have other options available.

One other point - if this is the standard of refereeing we can expect God help us. The only time the ref thought a challenge was fair was when James was manhandled in the penalty box.

[sAiNtE BrIaN]

i have three points to make

1. jim weir played utter...rubbish

2. saints should have won this we were the better side by far

3.goran is by far one of the most skillfull players in the side with pricise passing abilty

[canuck_saint]

He was never a footballer

Pi5h! Big ugly centre-half who stopped goals and gives everything to the cause -i'll take that. Football isnt all about step-overs and silky passing. He may be 2 or 3 years passed his best and not worthy of a place, but to say "never a footballer" is harsh in the extreme.

[blueheaven]

He clearly can be a very good player but more often he's a bit of a shirker. I also detest this "wizard" pish! Guys who work hard for St Johnstone deserve nicknames like that - Paul Sheerin doesn't.

I honestly don't see Sheerin as a shirker at all. I have no idea where that part of his reputation comes from. I never see him noticably putting in less work than his team mates. Sure, he's not a tackler - players at this level all have their weaknesses, and that happens to be his. But not putting in tackles and being a "shirker" aren't the same thing. He was up and down the park constantly today and it was obvious to me that he really wanted the things he was trying to come to something. Of course, they didn't, and I've accepted that he wasn't great today, but I don't think there's anything wrong with his attitude at all.

Jim Weir ... He was never a footballer

Could you maybe explain what you actually mean by that? This thing about Weir not being "a footballer" is something a few folk seem to say from time to time on here - but what does it actually mean? Don't you think that if he wasn't "a footballer" he'd have been found out at the level he's played his career at?

[Two Js]

Pi5h! Big ugly centre-half who stopped goals and gives everything to the cause -i'll take that. Football isnt all about step-overs and silky passing. He may be 2 or 3 years passed his best and not worthy of a place, but to say "never a footballer" is harsh in the extreme.


blueheaven wrote:
Could you maybe explain what you actually mean by that? This thing about Weir not being "a footballer" is something a few folk seem to say from time to time on here - but what does it actually mean? Don't you think that if he wasn't "a footballer" he'd have been found out at the level he's played his career at?

The fact that he rarely, if ever, controlled a ball or laid it off with one touch.

The fact that he rarely, if ever, made a telling (or even good) pass - it was more likely a big punt up field.

The fact that he rarely, if ever, made any ground with the ball at his feet.

I could go on but you get my drift.

I think Jim Weir was superb for Saints as the "big ugly centre-half who stopped goals and gives everything to the cause" and I have great respect for the committment he has shown to the club but the fact that he can't do what he was good at anymore means he shouldn't play for Saints again.

[Cagey]

New season ,same old crap.

Every free kick & corner aimed at James. Are we the only team in he world that lose possesion at throw ins mainly due to no movement. All clearances aimed at Lawrie`s head just as they were aimed at Stevo last season.


The midfield was non existant. Sheridan was OK for 20 mins then either the booking or age & heat made him lose a couple of yards. Sheerin was missing apart from 10 mins in the second half when he teamed up well with Stanic just after Young came on.Mensing is not a midfielder & Lawrie is not better or even less effective than Stevenson

[SaintSam1884]

New season, same old crap.

You people are far more depressing than anything I witnessed today.

If it's still "shocking", "terrible", "simply not good enough" by the end of the month then MAYBE you may have a right to moan but one game.

Moan, moan, moan.

Well, here's my response...

Yawn, yawn, yawn.

No, it wasn't great but it wasn't that f'ckin bad. A lot of Saints fans need to get a reality check, we are just a first division club with SPL aspirations with no automatic right to be better than the rest. We didn't start well, but at least give them some time to get going.

Rant over. :***:

[Cagey]

SORRY GUYS PREMATURE EJACULATION FROM THAT POST.

Coyle has to vary the tactics a bit as every team know that if they put 2 men on Scotland & cover james at set pieces they are quids in.

Only pass points today to Stanic ,James .

Up front we have a problem. It is obvious that Savo & Scotland can`t play together but I doubt if anyone could play with Jason, I can`t see us leaving Jase out of the team but we are not getting the best from him.

[MUZZ]

I don't think Jim Weir should play for Saints again. at least some radge kens the crack :evil: its quite simple to me, unless mr coyle signs a creative midfielder before the end of august we will be here next season yet again. solid backline and good finishers but feck all in the middle as per usual :evil:

[SaintSam1884]

SORRY GUYS PREMATURE EJACULATION FROM THAT POST.

Coyle has to vary the tactics a bit as every team know that if they put 2 men on Scotland & cover james at set pieces they are quids in.

Only pass points today to Stanic ,James .

Up front we have a problem. It is obvious that Savo & Scotland can`t play together but I doubt if anyone could play with Jason, I can`t see us leaving Jase out of the team but we are not getting the best from him.

Peter MacDonald played really well when he came on and didn't seem to stumble on the fact that Scotland was up front with him.

The problem with Steven Milne is becoming more and more apparent all of the time and I see it mentioned on here. His work rate is brilliant and he's pacey but it's a rare thing to see him score a goal, which is ultimately what a striker should do.

[MUZZ]

peaso in a lot more dangerous than savo

[Broon]

So here is my take on todays game.

Negative :

Playing Jim Weir was a big mistake for a couple of reasons:

Mensing could have easily played there if we really HAD to play with 3 centre halfs and we could have put Young in the middle instead of playing 2 defensive midfielders in a home game. This brings me to my next point - why do we have 3 centre halfs in a league where we should be attacking most of the time? Its a bloody waste of time if you ask me - why don't we have 3 strikers?

Another problem with 3 central defenders (and it showed twice today) is they don't know who they should be marking. When you have 2 they mark one striker each but when you have 3 they don't know who they should be marking as they rotate. Clyde had a free header from 4 yards and open goal because our 3 centre halfs were marking nobody. If you play 3 at the back, one of them has to be the leader and organising things - this doesn't happen. Bring back 442!

So basically we lined up today with 6 defenders in the side and Sheridan (who is shite). Sheridan has only one type of pass (a wee floater) and yet he hits every free kick and corner (all to James - how one dimensional are we?). Get him out, we don't often need that type of player in this league. When we do, use Mensing. Sheridan does try hard but he offers nowt to the team at all - he strangles any creativity and breaks up all the moves.

Positive:

Even after playing so badly - we created loads of chances. Savo looked sharper (without being dangerous) and on another day Scotland could have bagged a hat-trick. Peaso looked great (tackling back and winning the ball) and was unlucky at the end. Lawrie (who took some stick) actually looked good in the last third - hit the post, squared to Peaso and had a great turn and cross for Scoltands header.

Also, Mensing looked very good at the back and the keeper looked confident (but can't kick - why did Jim Weir not know he was left footed?). James won everything in the air but there is no point as nobody can get any power on Sheridans powder puff crosses - just drill the bloody thing in for a change.

Young looked a clever player too and on that showing he could do the business for us in midfield. If I was coyle my new line up would be:

Halliwell
Lawrie McManus/Ruti James Stanic
Mensing Hardie Young Sheerin
Scotland Peaso


I hate being negative but its the same problems as last year. I really can't stand another season watching Sheridan. We are SO CLOSE to being a very good side. We just need to ditch the 5 defenders, go 4-4-2, retire Sheridan, drop milne for Peaso and use him when defenders are tired in the last 30 mins)! Rant over - Come on ye Saints :D

[t]

Bit disappointed today - not as much as some on here though!

After 20 minutes or so it always looked to be a 0-0 er - Clyde just aren't going to score many goals this season (are we?).

Peaso certainly proved to be more effective than 'headless chicken' Savo.

Unless jim Weir scored a hat-trick today people were always going to slag him off- must be the workers/management thing! I thought he done OK considering he's not played a proper match for going on 2 years.

Scotland also seems to get a lot of unjustified stick - lazy - I don't think so, he had more of the ball than anyone else on the park.

And what's wrong with aiming dead balls at James' head - he always wins it.

My main gripe today was seeing some ned in the East Stand wearing a huns top - would never have happened in my day!

[Dev]

I see what you're saying Broon. I prefer 4-4-2 also but we haven't been particularly successful with it recently. Last season the 3-5-2 worked fairly well.

I must say I'm surprised that the more defensive players are getting so much stick across the various threads. I thought our failings were with the more attacking players such as Sheerin, Scotland and Milne. These guys were well below par and that's where I saw most of the problems.

[SaintSam1884]

I see what you're saying Broon. I prefer 4-4-2 also but we haven't been particularly successful with it recently. Last season the 3-5-2 worked fairly well.

I must say I'm surprised that the more defensive players are getting so much stick across the various threads. I thought our failings were with the more attacking players such as Sheerin, Scotland and Milne. These guys were well below par and that's where I saw most of the problems.

I think Sheerin is the type of blend in midfielder that only adds to a side when it's playing well. He'll never stand out in a poor midfield, a poor midfield will make him look distinctly average, borderline poor every time.

I think our defence would have coped much better with Rutkiewicz in there as opposed to Jim Weir who shouldn't have been anywhere near the team regardless of suspensions. Broon is spot on - Mensing could have played there and Young started in midfield, it worked better than the team we started with.

I'd persevere with 3-5-2...

Halliwell

Rutkiewicz McManus James

Lawrie Hardie/Young, Sheridan, Sheerin, Stanic

Scotland MacDonald

I'm sticking with the opinion that losing Sheridan as defensive cover would leave the defence completely exposed and be suicidal against a decent team. Our midfield without Sheridan wouldn't be good enough in attack that it would never need to defend, and defend it could never do. :shock:

t - I agree about Scotland, I dunno why he's taking stick on here today, I think he looks more and more enthusiastic every time I see him. There were instances today where he tried to win balls in the midfield, and tried to win headers where last season he wouldn't have bothered, he'd have expected ball to feet. He has tremendous strength, he's better at keeping the ball than any other player we have.

[Victor]

If it's still "shocking", "terrible", "simply not good enough" by the end of the month then MAYBE you may have a right to moan but one game.
MAYBE???? Get real.

You pay admission money...YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO MOAN.

As the Geoff Browns of this world keep saying, football is a business and in business if the product you are buying isnt up to standard, you complain, especially if as you say we are just a first division club but for years have been charging SPL prices.

And as for it being 1 cr@p game...its well over a 100 hundred now.

Its about time the anti-moaners had a reality check and stopped living in their niaive little goody goody world.

[SaintSam1884]

If it's still "shocking", "terrible", "simply not good enough" by the end of the month then MAYBE you may have a right to moan but one game.
MAYBE???? Get real.

You pay admission money...YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO MOAN.

As the Geoff Browns of this world keep saying, football is a business and in business if the product you are buying isnt up to standard, you complain, especially if as you say we are just a first division club but for years have been charging SPL prices.

And as for it being 1 cr@p game...its well over a 100 hundred now.

Its about time the anti-moaners had a reality check and stopped living in their niaive little goody goody world.

And drop to the other end of the scale joining people like you and wee john? No thank you! The reaction to todays game across this board is ridiculous. I am perplexed as to why you bother to go to games at all if the games are crap and the prices are ridiculous? You must get zero enjoyment out of it. Serious question, not being funny.

[gc7969]

Last season report- lace of pace, lack of vision, lack of support

Nice to see Coyle has addressed that in the off season. How can a "professional" manager believe that Weir was able to play. Was he judging him playing against himself?

Halliwell's kicking does not inspire confidence yet in his limited training session, he had learnt the Saints bye kick routine. Find their left back.

Lawrie is not a wing back on that performance. Sheridan is a season too long in the sun. As said previously, why did Sheridan take the free kicks and corners, all to the same target, all poor balls when alegedly there are others like Stanic, Sheerin who can take those. (Sorry, I forgot, we only practice one routine a season)

Several changes with Rusti and Hardie available but I would like to consider is, playing Dyer at wing back and moving Stanic to the Sheerin role. More guile with Stanic, more pace with Dyer. Young for Sheridan.

Up front a finisher is required, time for Jackson perhaps?

The season is not over but we have to play to our strengths, which today was on the ground, pass and move. Thirty seconds of that and they had had enough.

[208saint]

Can someone tell me when we are allowed to moan about a crap team?

I said we were crap and in for a poor season during the preseason friendlies, along with others and was told that it was too early, friendlies mean feck all etc etc Wait until the season starts then you'll see. Okay I thought I'll shut my pus and wait.

First game of the season and I along with many others see absolutely nothing to change our minds, still we need to wait and see, wait until the players really get going etc. Wait until Gretna, Partick etc get going as well then shall we :roll:

Somebody want to tell me when it's acceptable to state the bleedin obvious :?

[StDuncM]

This taken from BBCSport.

St Johnstone and Clyde served up an entertaining game at McDiarmid Park but could find the back of the net.
Saints striker Jason Scotland should have profited from a series of chances for the hosts but could not produce the required finesse in front of goal.

For the visitors, Dougie Imrie and trialist Gary Arbuckle were denied by St Johnstone's 'keeper Bryn Halliwell.

Clyde's Stephen O'Donnell had the best chance but was thwarted by a last-ditch clearance by Darren Sheridan.

Too early in the season to start moaning apart from the fact that Jim Weir got a game as he has never been anything more than carthorse and was a hasbeen before he finished playing a few years ago.

[wee john]

It was dissappointing stuff, no doubt about it.
And there is no reason why we should not put our true thoughts forward.
I still think we are only 2 players short of seriously challenging for the title aslong as we drop the right 2 players to accommodate :***:

I'M NOT AT THE OPPOSITE END OF THE SCALE AT ALL.

[dunblanemike]

the reaction on here to this match highlights what appears to be a growing phenomenom - going to the extremes in ones reaction. Had we got a win yesterday a lot of folk on here would be saying we are brilliant, because we did not we are pish poor. Just compare the reaction after the pre-season heavy wins and just after the next couple of draws.
I have a question. Was there ANY time in the game when we played good football? If there was not then I can understand peoples gripes. I reckon there were actually quite a few moments of good football. A few have mentioned good link play from Stanic - who did he link well with? Yes Sheerin most of the time, and yet he is getting pelters (particularly from a certain 37 year old). Sheridan DID vary his free kicks and corners - did no one else spot Lawrie getting to the near post corner and flicking it on in the first half. I can well understand folk moaning at the result but to do so as if the whole performance was utter tripe proves my original point.
Oh, and another thing - could one team's play suffer because of the efforts of the opposition? Give credit where it is due - Clyde played well at times. We, the supporters I mean, ALWAYS seem to underestimate them.
I'm off to find my tin hat - please wait until I get into my shelter before supplying pelters. Ta.

[MUZZ]

i've calmed down a bit now. it was bad yesterday but fair do's we had a few boys missing. but we must start performing soon to have any chance. gretna showed yesterday what they can do and now its our turn

[blueheaven]

Halliwell
Lawrie McManus/Ruti James Stanic
Mensing Hardie Young Sheerin
Scotland Peaso



Sorry, but I don't think that team would work for us at all. I'm not a fan of 3-5-2 generally, but it suits the players we have. You're playing 4-4-2 there but both of your midfield wide men are players out of position. I think we should know by now that Sheerin's only really effective in a central midfield 3, and also that James is more comfortable in a back 3. Also, I don't think Hardie & Young together, with nobody else in there who's a bit more defensive-minded, would work. I'd also say that your team involves dropping either McManus or Ruti, both of whom are probably two of our better players at the moment, so I think we should be using a system that can find room for both of them.

I don't think changing the entire system after just one game is the answer - particularly as, to put things in a bit of perspective, that one game saw us pick up a point and keep a clean sheet. I'd also say it's a bit of a Saints tradition to be less than impressive on the first day of the season.

[Radford 72]

I'm actually happy to see this level of moaning, it shows how much standards have risen. I suspect if we'd had this result at the start of last season, we'd be saying it was ok and a good, solid start.

Like I've said before, the last three champions have all lost their opening games so we're one up on them already!

[KirrieSaintee]

the reaction on here to this match highlights what appears to be a growing phenomenom - going to the extremes in ones reaction. Had we got a win yesterday a lot of folk on here would be saying we are brilliant, because we did not we are pish poor. Just compare the reaction after the pre-season heavy wins and just after the next couple of draws.
I have a question. Was there ANY time in the game when we played good football? If there was not then I can understand peoples gripes. I reckon there were actually quite a few moments of good football. A few have mentioned good link play from Stanic - who did he link well with? Yes Sheerin most of the time, and yet he is getting pelters (particularly from a certain 37 year old). Sheridan DID vary his free kicks and corners - did no one else spot Lawrie getting to the near post corner and flicking it on in the first half. I can well understand folk moaning at the result but to do so as if the whole performance was utter tripe proves my original point.
Oh, and another thing - could one team's play suffer because of the efforts of the opposition? Give credit where it is due - Clyde played well at times. We, the supporters I mean, ALWAYS seem to underestimate them.
I'm off to find my tin hat - please wait until I get into my shelter before supplying pelters. Ta. Totally agree.Dissapointing not to win but far to many negative reactions to first game of season.If we're to play 3-5-2- system then we must use Stanic and Lawrie far more than we did yesterday.First half,good bit of possesion play found Lawrie in the last third of Clyde's half, great cross and Scotland should have scored.Unfortunatly that was the only time that happened in first half.Second half Sheerin and Stanic combined,Stanic took on his man and got in good crosses which created decent chances. If were playing the 3-5-2 system then we have to try and work the ball wide and get behind the opposition defence and get decent service to our strikers.Savo Milne ,once he gets off the mark will prove what a quality player he his.Jason Scotland,who can sometimes be frustrating, is the one player we have who is real quality and who can come up with that bit of magic that makes him different from your average player.Ibet every manager in our division would like him in their team.Dissapointing result but still have total confidence that we are progressing steadilyd are ready for the challenge from the media darlings Gretna.

[john1962]

I dont think we were great yesterday but I don't think we were awful either. I think a lot of the reactions are because of the expectations built up last season.

Thought Halliwell looked confident and efficient. A big problem for me with the back three was that they looked like they met at kick off. They were not a unit and the lack of understanding presented Clyde with their early chances.

The middle of the park looked dodgy until Young came on and Mensing went back, this also helped the defence. Yes Sheridan did not have a good game but does that mean we should write him off? Don't think the midfield will look like a unit when we have two players trying to do the same job. Sheridan and Mensing. Lawrie looked as if he hadn't adjusted to playing with different team mates, he tried to do exactly the same as he would with Falkirk. Stanic and Sheerin look a good partnership although not at their best yesterday.

The strikers were poor yesterday. Jason should have scored at least one. The header in particular, he had plenty time to pick a slot. Savo works hard but think he adds very little. Perhaps he should be banned from coming into his own half, like Sturrock did with Dodds.

All that said I think we made enough chances to win and that we are a much better side than Clyde.

[LewGti]

Yeh its disapointing that we didnt get a win and that we are already chasing the leaders when we all hoped to be a leading team, but there is a hell of along way to go yet. That wasnt the prefered starting 11 so we will just have to wait and see what we are like when its the strongest side out there, if they cant perform then we start to worry. :wink: Halliwell looked confident and McManus was pretty solid too. Stanic was the stand out.

Its safe to say Sheerin wasnt the best but I dont believe he was as poor as a few have made out he was. He Stanic were responsible for a few good moves down the left. Milne just needs a goal and he will come good.

[Invernessaint]

Thankfully I decided to take some time out before making a post about yesterdays game. Was fuming at 4.45 but calmed a little now! Was really disappointed as the flaws from last season were there again for the world to see - we were not good enough last year in a winnable league, this year will be even harder and our team has to rise to the challenge. Following the lead from others I am going for the positive/negative layout

Positives: Crowd at least 500 up on corresponding fixture last year even accounting for a pathetic away support. Thought that Halliwell, McManus, Stanic and James all played well. Young was head and shoulders above the others when he came on.

Negatives: Have we signed Paul Lawrie or Andy Lawrie? Our lack of creativity very scary -especially at free kicks. This was almost as embarassing as Airdrie last New Year! No width yet again and I am convinced this is the problem with Milne. I rate him very highly and when he gets the service he will deliver. He has to spend too much time tyring to create openings whilst on his day is one of the most clinical finshers we have. Thought Peaso, although played well, looked as if he needed to lose a few pounds! OC and Jim Weir should have known better than to play him at the back. Mensing was far more able and actually looked pretty good in that position.

Its going to be a long season - we all need to relax a bit. Gretna will be brimming with confidence after yesterday, and rightly so. As pointed out earlier, we have no right to win this league. It may well be that there are two or three others better than us and we have to accept that - but lets give it our best shot, something we havn't done for the past 3 years or so.

[Steve Maskrey]

As a side point, did anyone notice the lazy Clyde player who asked for a new ball after the original one rolled under the advertising board and he couldn't be bothered lifting it to get it back :shock:

Not the greatest game but par from the course on here with a lot of people reaching for the panic button after one game :roll: Its obviously disappointing but we will improve from here. I agree with the point that Savo should be banned from his own half, he should stand on the half way line and he has the speed should the defence decide to punt the ball up and catch the opposition on the break.

[Broon]

As a side point, did anyone notice the lazy Clyde player who asked for a new ball after the original one rolled under the advertising board and he couldn't be bothered lifting it to get it back :shock:


I actually think he didn't have the intelligence to realise he could get the ball back by lifting it. Or maybe he thought it was nailed to the ground. After all, thats what they do to everything in Cumbernauld to stop things being stolen ;)

[Jimmy Wallace]

First chance I've had to post my tuppenceworth.

Halliwell: Looked solid enough and much more commanding than Cuthbert. Needs to sort out his kicking though, unless he was told to kick it to Lawrie every time. Not surprised that he hasn't yet clicked with the defence, but have no doubt this will come very quickly.

James: Didn't do much wrong and got on lots of headers up front, although with little effect.

McManus: Looks a decent player although he did some daft things at times. Again I'm putting this down to the fact the defence were playing with Halliwell for the first time.

Weir: Didn't do much wrong either, but looked like a fish out of water. A decent attack would have made mincemeat out of him.

Stanic: Brilliant as ever. His passing dwon the left in the first half and his second half infield runs were superb.

Sheridan: Not one of his better games, but he still looks incredibly fit and gives everything. Needless tackle resulting in his yellow card.

Mensing: I thought he played well in both positions. Silly yellow card.

Sheerin: Not particularly effective although was involved in a couple of good moves.

Lawrie: I was very disappointed in him. Won nothing in the air on the right and failed to make much impact down that side. If he had done what Stanic did on the left, it would have taken pressure off the centre of midfield and allowed them to get forward more.

Scotland: Seemed to lack composure when shooting and was pushed off the ball far too easily by the Clyde defence.

Milne: Ran about a lot.

Young: Looked a class act when he came on. If he'd started we might have won the game.

Peaso: I was quite impressed when he came on. I've never been a huge fan but he did make an impact and his tackling tracking back was excellent.