A Statistical Comparison...

[Saintkev]

On Saturday, QOS will see us through to the halfway mark this season. I reckon things have improved greatly (though obviously still room for improvement), but these stats should show a great improvement to most. These stats include cup-ties...

Last season won 15, already on 12 this season...
Last season scored 47, already on 49 this season...
Last season finished +2 goal difference, already +19.

I can only see these stats improving as we are now starting to get a settled side that Owen will be able to improve in January.

Keep the faith guys!

[Dev]

We are definitely going in the right direction when you compare things with last season. It can be frustrating though to see our inconsistency preventing us from living up to the potential that we have on paper. The season so far has been pretty much as expected for me - Owen has made a number of good improvements but there was just too much to turn around from last season. We need to push on now to get ourselves into a position where we can win the league next season.

I'm 37.

[Phil]

Nice stats. Lets just hope we can keep it up. As Dr Dev Alahan said, we need to be consistent.

[Ray Blair]

The Stats are good but I wouldnt give up on
this season yet.
If we beat St Mirren twice then we are only
4 points behind them.
Barring miracles they will have a dip in form soon.

Cmon the blues

[LewGti]

On Saturday, QOS will see us through to the halfway mark this season. I reckon things have improved greatly (though obviously still room for improvement), but these stats should show a great improvement to most. These stats include cup-ties...

Last season won 15, already on 12 this season...
Last season scored 47, already on 49 this season...
Last season finished +2 goal difference, already +19.

I can only see these stats improving as we are now starting to get a settled side that Owen will be able to improve in January.

Keep the faith guys!

Yeh i totally agree with you i can only see us getting better too.

Was the 47 goals we scored over the whole season or what had scored this time last year.

[metalbearabroad]

[quote=Saintkev]

Was the 47 goals we scored over the whole season or what had scored this time last year.

I'm pretty sure its over the course of last season, we only scored 38 in the league in total.

The stats, comparitively, look promising and its proof in itself that the team are going in the right direction. If we can get a wee bit momentum then making up 10 points doesn't seem nearly as daunting.

Forget the Xboxes, lets all just ask santa for a few defeats for st Mirren for christmas.....

[Calinho]

If saints get a decent run going theres no reason why they cant match St Mirren, their squad isnt much better than saints

[SaintSam1884]

We are definitely going in the right direction when you compare things with last season. It can be frustrating though to see our inconsistency preventing us from living up to the potential that we have on paper. The season so far has been pretty much as expected for me - Owen has made a number of good improvements but there was just too much to turn around from last season. We need to push on now to get ourselves into a position where we can win the league next season.

I'm 37.

It's not just our inconsistency but our injuries that are preventing what is arguably a title challenging side on paper, challenging for the title.

It is getting beyond a joke now having the likes of Henry, Paterson, MacDonald especially, McAnespie, Campbell and Fotheringham all struggling to get any sort of regularlity in their starting, or any starts at all in the case of some. Two of these players would be automatic starters each Saturday if 100% fit, and the rest would be back up. However, because they're all injury prone and can't seem to string a decent run of starts together between them, we are often without two excellent players, and four decent back up players thus forcing us to dive into our reserves some weeks and even have the manager starting on others.

It's really becoming quite ridiculous. If there was one thing I was unhappy about with Owen it would be that he seems to sign players who have bad track records because he knows they could be a real asset IF fit. Paterson, Henry and to a lesser extent, James all fall into this category. He also gave McAnespie a contract and seems set to give him yet another in January, despite the fact that he has not played a first team game this season according to the official website, and featured very little last season.

This is costing us dear, in my opinion.

[SaintSam1884]

If saints get a decent run going theres no reason why they cant match St Mirren, their squad isnt much better than saints

Who are you trying to kid? St.Mirren are a million miles ahead of us in every single department and the title is theirs. The sooner Saints fans stop deluding themselves into thinking otherwise, the better. St.Mirrens record this season:

Played 17, Won 12, Drawn 3, Lost 2, Scored 28, Conceeded 13, Points 39, GD, +15

That is an exceptional record for this point in the season. Very consistent.

Their squad?

John Baird
Kirk Broadfoot
Mark Corcoran
Craig Hinchcliffe
Stewart Kean
Simon Lappin
Ian Maxwell
Brian McGinty
Kevin McGowne
David McKenna
Billy Mehmet
Andy Millen
Hugh Murray
John-Paul Potter
Alan Reid
Mark Reilly
Chris Smith
John Sutton
David van Zanten

They are a solid outfit and have it absolutely spot on in every department. Whilst I think we have done ok this season, I think they have quite a few players that are much, much better than anything we have in the respective positions. I'd take Craig Hinchcliffe, Chris Smith, John Sutton, Stewart Kean, Hugh Murray, Mark Corcoran Kevin McGowne, Simon Lappin and Kirk Broadfoot in a flash here and I doubt anybody on this website would disagree.

I'm not trying to belittle Owen Coyles efforts whatsoever - more trying to act as a wake up call to any Saints fan who thinks we have anything remotely good enough to challenge that side for the title this season. We don't. Gus MacPherson has had a year longer than Coyle to build his squad and has formed a framework on which he has then built and now has a settled team that know their strengths and how to play to them.

The title is as good as won.

[rickardo]

So i take it from that rant you think St.middin will win the league? :cry:

[Tranmere Saintee]

I'd take Craig Hinchcliffe, Chris Smith, John Sutton, Stewart Kean, Hugh Murray, Mark Corcoran Kevin McGowne, Simon Lappin and Kirk Broadfoot in a flash here and I doubt anybody on this website would disagree.

Well I reckon you are in for a shock then.

From that list I would not touch Hinchcliffe & McGowne with a barge pole and from the rest of the list would only reckon that Corcoran (I am his agent on here :***: ) & Sutton are better than anything we have.

So far St Midden have been very lucky with injuries and suspensions and if they kick in then they will suffer like we have.

[Ray Blair]

[quote=Calinho]If saints get a decent run going theres no reason why they cant match St Mirren, their squad isnt much better than saints

Who are you trying to kid? St.Mirren are a million miles ahead of us in every single department and the title is theirs.

Just listing a squad doesnt prove that they are better than ours.
Why not try a man for man comparison and you will change your
mind.

Of cours you could be another Paisley impostor?

[Saintkev]

Was the 47 goals we scored over the whole season or what had scored this time last year.

Whole of last year including cups...

[Saintkev]

Manchester United have an exceptional set of players, it's done them no good this season, as confidence is low...

Trust me, for one reason or another, St Mirren's confidence and form will take a dip, it's just a question of whether we can be there to capitalise.

Even if they are 10 points ahead at the the run in... they can only blow it and that in itself is a pressure those not used to it can offer stumble due to.

Oh and finally, a million miles ahead... my arse!

[Dooj]

It seems to me that those on both sides of the argument are rather overstating their case. Obviously, we would rather be in St Midden's position - they have the best chance to win the league. However, this doesn't mean that we have no chance. Having said that, I don't believe that any team is 'due' a dip in form or a few injuries - it may or may not happen. If it does, then we should be ready to take advantage. Either way the league it not over by a long way. It doesn't seem that remote a possibility that we could catch St Midden up - it'll be tough, but if it happened, it wouldn't be seen as the greatest comeback ever or anything. So, let's just keep encouraging the team and believe that while we aren't in pole position we are still in contention. I am quite enjoying being a Saints fan at the moment - I don't see the point of conceding the title at a stage when there is still so much to fight for.

[SaintSam1884]

Manchester United have an exceptional set of players, it's done them no good this season, as confidence is low...

Trust me, for one reason or another, St Mirren's confidence and form will take a dip, it's just a question of whether we can be there to capitalise.

Even if they are 10 points ahead at the the run in... they can only blow it and that in itself is a pressure those not used to it can offer stumble due to.

Oh and finally, a million miles ahead... my arse!

They have a settled team that has clocked twelve wins out of seventeen, dropping points in only five matches and only two of those five being defeats. We have only taken maximum points in eight matches and have proceeded to drop points in nine games, with four of those being defeats. The statistics clearly show in their own right that St.Mirren are better than us. For the million miles ahead factor you just look to their sheer consistency. When you attend Saints games, you don't know what Saints you're going to get - the Saints that will slam five past Hamilton or concede 3 away to Airdrie. More proof, if needed, can be sought by referring to the two head to head encounters with St.Mirren this season. In both matches, we never looked like we could beat them.

Let us not forget that St.Mirren are not the only team ahead of us right now. We are still behind an on form Ross County who too show no signs of letting up. They are experiencing financial difficulties and it was once reported that they were going to have to sell their players but it now seems that their Chairman has no such intention of releasing their prominent players namely John Rankin, Don Cowie.

My point is - We have to aim to be the best side in the league if we want to win it. It's absolutely pointless taking the "they'll stumble at one point" attitude. Falkirk never stumbled, did they? I recall the same phrases being flung around the Saints forums then, too.

St.Mirren will win the league, of that I have absolutely no doubt. Their closest realistic challengers at the moment are even seven points behind them and were thrashed at their home ground by the Buddies on Saturday. Our main aim should be to continue to build the foundations of a squad that can then be added to in the summer, in preparation for another title assault next season. A high table finish will gve the players a bit of confidence too.

[SaintSam1884]

It seems to me that those on both sides of the argument are rather overstating their case. Obviously, we would rather be in St Midden's position - they have the best chance to win the league. However, this doesn't mean that we have no chance. Having said that, I don't believe that any team is 'due' a dip in form or a few injuries - it may or may not happen. If it does, then we should be ready to take advantage. Either way the league it not over by a long way. It doesn't seem that remote a possibility that we could catch St Midden up - it'll be tough, but if it happened, it wouldn't be seen as the greatest comeback ever or anything. So, let's just keep encouraging the team and believe that while we aren't in pole position we are still in contention. I am quite enjoying being a Saints fan at the moment - I don't see the point of conceding the title at a stage when there is still so much to fight for.

Ah, we have somebody who sits in between the two sides of the argument. :wink:

I'm enjoying being a Saints fan too. I think there's a real sense of freshness about the club at the moment and I believe it's all down to one man. Step forward, Owen Coyle. He has thrown together a decent team in the space of a summer and some of the football on show has been fantastic to watch - some of the results being not too shabby either, I must add. :D

We're half way through the season though, and although ten points doesn't seem an unachievable statistic on paper, in reality, it is for me. St.Mirren won't falter now. They are in the second phase of a "two year masterplan" as I like to call it. Last year they experienced a similar sort of circumstance that I believe we find ourselves in now. They were a decent outfit who conceeded that the title was beyond them at that point and consolidated a hard fought season with a high table finish. During the summer, they added some key players to a framework that was already in place from the previous season by bringing in players like Charlie Adam on loan from Rangers and John Sutton in to support Stewart Kean up front. They have added in such a way that has only bettered what had managed second place last season - leading forward to them being the main contenders for the title this.

Another example of the two year masterplan is Gretna. I have already read their chairman talking about how the plan is for Gretna to be in this division for two years once securing promotion at the end of this season. Year one - to consolidate their place in the league whilst building the framework of a side that can challenge the year after. Year two - bolstering the existing squad and then setting their sights seriously on winning the league. This season, we have done what St.Mirren did last year. Coyle has built a core team of players that is good enough to keep us in the top three or four and, in the summer, he will add to that squad. Next year will be our year to make a serious assault on the championship.

This year - I'd be delighted to see us finish as high as possible, but won't set myself up for a huge fall by thinking we can catch St.Mirren.

[blueheaven]

They are a solid outfit and have it absolutely spot on in every department. Whilst I think we have done ok this season, I think they have quite a few players that are much, much better than anything we have in the respective positions. I'd take Craig Hinchcliffe, Chris Smith, John Sutton, Stewart Kean, Hugh Murray, Mark Corcoran Kevin McGowne, Simon Lappin and Kirk Broadfoot in a flash here and I doubt anybody on this website would disagree.

I don't think the players you mention are anything special, and I don't think that, man for man, St Mirren have a better squad than us. I think the difference between us and St Mirren is not that their players are any better than ours, but that their manager has gelled them together really well and he's got them producing their best performances on a consistant basis. If he's able to turn guys like Reilly and Maxwell into players who are able to play a part in a strong title bid, then I'm guessing MacPherson's approach is having a similarly beneficial effect on the rest of their squad too (by the way, that's yet another piece of evidence that Stark was shite! :P ).

So I don't agree that they "have quite a few players that are much, much better than anything we have in the respective positions". Generally speaking, I don't think we need different players (not on a wholesale basis, anyway) - we just need to give OC time to prove he can consistently get the best out of them.

I don't think St Mirren are anywhere near as good as you're making out, and I also don't think they're anywhere near as good as Falkirk were last season, but I do think Gus MacPherson is doing a fantastic job for them.

[SaintSam1884]

They are a solid outfit and have it absolutely spot on in every department. Whilst I think we have done ok this season, I think they have quite a few players that are much, much better than anything we have in the respective positions. I'd take Craig Hinchcliffe, Chris Smith, John Sutton, Stewart Kean, Hugh Murray, Mark Corcoran Kevin McGowne, Simon Lappin and Kirk Broadfoot in a flash here and I doubt anybody on this website would disagree.

I don't think the players you mention are anything special, and I don't think that, man for man, St Mirren have a better squad than us. I think the difference between us and St Mirren is not that their players are any better than ours, but that their manager has gelled them together really well and he's got them producing their best performances on a consistant basis. If he's able to turn guys like Reilly and Maxwell into players who are able to play a part in a strong title bid, then I'm guessing MacPherson's approach is having a similarly beneficial effect on the rest of their squad too (by the way, that's yet another piece of evidence that Stark was shite! :P ).

So I don't agree that they "have quite a few players that are much, much better than anything we have in the respective positions". Generally speaking, I don't think we need different players (not on a wholesale basis, anyway) - we just need to give OC time to prove he can consistently get the best out of them.

I don't think St Mirren are anywhere near as good as you're making out, and I also don't think they're anywhere near as good as Falkirk were last season, but I do think Gus MacPherson is doing a fantastic job for them.

Exaggerations aside - Do you think we can realistically catch St.Mirren this season?

In all seriousness - I definately would take Kirk Broadfoot, Chris Smith, Stewart Kean and John Sutton at Saints and put them straight into our first team ahead of what we already have. Everything else you say I agree with, mainly because it's what I've already said in some of my later posts. I'm not really taking issue with the quality of our squad or the job Coyle has done which I think is quite commendable - more the fact that some Saints fans on here are deluded. We have the core of a squad that could be fantastic but it needs more time, and for fans to expect a title challenge is unrealistic in my opinion.

Our time will come, but this is St.Mirrens time to shine, and they have earned it.

[Saintkev]

If you are claiming I'm deluded, you're wrong (in this case)... it's not unbelivevable that a side like St Mirren will have a wee period of poor form, or a wee run of dropping points... Falkirk, who I think most would agree were a far better side and they lost a fair few points (I know this was a lot down to being so comfortable) towards the end.

Trust me, they will have a bad spell by their current standards... every team does.

If you used the logic that after X amount of games a team has such and such a record, then they'll continue that all season, we'd all be expecting Wigan to get a Champions League spot a couple of weeks ago.

Now the bit you seem to assume, is that I think we will romp them... I don't, but I hope we do, and am not willing to let the dream die. We are improving, few would argue differently, and if we stay in touch, maybe sign the missing link (attacking midfielder for me), then who knows what will happen. I ain't pinning my hopes on anything, but it would be enjoyable, and I'm up for a Championship Party.

Think about it, 10 points now, Scumdee beat them on Saturday and we win against QOS, then we win down there... 4 points and they'll be looking over their shoulders. That's how much of a difference a fortnight can make... KEEP THE FAITH!!!

[blueheaven]

Exaggerations aside - Do you think we can realistically catch St.Mirren this season?

I think we can, but at the moment it looks highly unlikely. As I think I said in a different thread though, the title has to remain the team's ambition until it's mathematically impossible - and we're a long way from that yet. We have to keep going, so that if St Mirren do slip up we're able to capitalise on it.

I'm not really taking issue with the quality of our squad or the job Coyle has done which I think is quite commendable - more the fact that some Saints fans on here are deluded. We have the core of a squad that could be fantastic but it needs more time, and for fans to expect a title challenge is unrealistic in my opinion.

I think that, rather than being "deluded", all people want to see is the team continuing to go for it. I'm dead against the idea some others have suggested that we should already be throwing in the towel and experimenting with youngsters for next season. It's not even Christmas yet, after all.

Our time will come, but this is St.Mirrens time to shine, and they have earned it.

Not yet they haven't!

[SaintSam1884]

If you are claiming I'm deluded, you're wrong (in this case)... it's not unbelivevable that a side like St Mirren will have a wee period of poor form, or a wee run of dropping points... Falkirk, who I think most would agree were a far better side and they lost a fair few points (I know this was a lot down to being so comfortable) towards the end.

Trust me, they will have a bad spell by their current standards... every team does.

If you used the logic that after X amount of games a team has such and such a record, then they'll continue that all season, we'd all be expecting Wigan to get a Champions League spot a couple of weeks ago.

Now the bit you seem to assume, is that I think we will romp them... I don't, but I hope we do, and am not willing to let the dream die. We are improving, few would argue differently, and if we stay in touch, maybe sign the missing link (attacking midfielder for me), then who knows what will happen. I ain't pinning my hopes on anything, but it would be enjoyable, and I'm up for a Championship Party.

Think about it, 10 points now, Scumdee beat them on Saturday and we win against QOS, then we win down there... 4 points and they'll be looking over their shoulders. That's how much of a difference a fortnight can make... KEEP THE FAITH!!!

I wasn't particularly referring to you.

If we go down the route of St.Mirren having a bad run, which I think is highly unlikely, we then have to go down the route of relying on us having a good, consistent run. Consistency is not a word in the St.Johnstone Team 2005/2006 vocabulary. :wink:

Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting that we throw in the towel and start playing youngsters. I am suggesting that we stop kidding ourselves, and continue to strive towards getting a settled side with some consistency in our play. I also think we should aim to finish as high as possible, but not set ourselves up for a fall by thinking we can catch St.Mirren. I don't believe we can.

[chopper]

I wasn't particularly referring to you.

If we go down the route of St.Mirren having a bad run, which I think is highly unlikely, we then have to go down the route of relying on us having a good, consistent run. Consistency is not a word in the St.Johnstone Team 2005/2006 vocabulary. :wink:

Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting that we throw in the towel and start playing youngsters. I am suggesting that we stop kidding ourselves, and continue to strive towards getting a settled side with some consistency in our play. I also think we should aim to finish as high as possible, but not set ourselves up for a fall by thinking we can catch St.Mirren. I don't believe we can.

St. Mirren may head onto a bad run, they may not - one thing that is for sure is that they have got lucky with injuries and suspensions, also looking at their only main injury this year (Hinchcliffe) being replaced by a youngster who has stepped up to the plate (much like Cuthbert did when Main was unavailable).

We need to be consistent, but our inconsistency in my mind, is generally down to having to change a couple of players every week due to injuries. It is no coincidence that out best run came when we had a nice settled 11. Our squad is bigger, stronger and for my money, better than St. Mirren's and now the players have developed an understanding of each other's games we are ready for an assault on the league. Who'd have thought Sheerin and Stevo would have been amongst our leading scorers?

Finally, does it matter if we are setting ourselves up for a fall? Surely the fact we are looking at the title shows our ambition as a club at the moment to try and reverse the bad times of the late Clark/Stark/Connolly era's, and as fans we always want what's best. There is no point in settling for 3rd when we can feasibly win the league!!!

[SaintSam1884]

I wasn't particularly referring to you.

If we go down the route of St.Mirren having a bad run, which I think is highly unlikely, we then have to go down the route of relying on us having a good, consistent run. Consistency is not a word in the St.Johnstone Team 2005/2006 vocabulary. :wink:

Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting that we throw in the towel and start playing youngsters. I am suggesting that we stop kidding ourselves, and continue to strive towards getting a settled side with some consistency in our play. I also think we should aim to finish as high as possible, but not set ourselves up for a fall by thinking we can catch St.Mirren. I don't believe we can.

St. Mirren may head onto a bad run, they may not - one thing that is for sure is that they have got lucky with injuries and suspensions, also looking at their only main injury this year (Hinchcliffe) being replaced by a youngster who has stepped up to the plate (much like Cuthbert did when Main was unavailable).

We need to be consistent, but our inconsistency in my mind, is generally down to having to change a couple of players every week due to injuries. It is no coincidence that out best run came when we had a nice settled 11. Our squad is bigger, stronger and for my money, better than St. Mirren's and now the players have developed an understanding of each other's games we are ready for an assault on the league. Who'd have thought Sheerin and Stevo would have been amongst our leading scorers?

Finally, does it matter if we are setting ourselves up for a fall? Surely the fact we are looking at the title shows our ambition as a club at the moment to try and reverse the bad times of the late Clark/Stark/Connolly era's, and as fans we always want what's best. There is no point in settling for 3rd when we can feasibly win the league!!!

I absolutely agree with much of what you say.

The inconsistency is down to injuries, something which I posted about on the first page of this thread but that in turn is a problem I have with Owen Coyle. It's all well and good having players with the quality of Peter MacDonald and John Henry but what use is it when they can't get any regularity in their fitness? It's not about luck with these players, they are injury prone. Nothing more, nothing less.

You make a lot of your own luck in life and we have certainly done ourselves absolutely no favours by signing players with such horrendous track records with regards to injuries. I defy anyone to argue otherwise.

[lethamsaintee]

the simple fact that we still have to play st.moron thrice will be the deciding factor in this league, if we can win at least two and pick up a point in the other we might, just might, have a chance. i feel dundee will do us a favour today but its up to us to capatalise on any slip ups they make, we are due a little run, hopefully starting today.

[SaintSam1884]

Sam, you still have time to delete some of those posts before the mafia get to you! :P

Nope. I stand by everything I said. :P

I don't think my comments were at all unfair - I praised the good points of the team, the management and the season so far. I criticised very little and I then posted my opinions. If they can't handle a different opinion to theirs, then a football forum is probably not the best place for them. :wink:

I would love Saints to prove me wrong, but we were playing Queens today and didn't set the heather alight. We have also failed to beat Dundee this season so far. A few more results like todays and I might begin to believe. Until then, however, my opinion remains unchanged. :twisted:

[chopper]

We have also failed to beat Dundee this season so far

And I should also sahy the side directly above us have also failed to do that this season :roll:

[SaintSam1884]

We have also failed to beat Dundee this season so far

And I should also sahy the side directly above us have also failed to do that this season :roll:

Read my post again.

I was clearly saying that in reference to the fact that St.Mirren have failed to beat Dundee.

I'd love for Saints to get it together and win the league and would - with pleasure - eat my words if they did it.

[Ronaldo]

The main point is that we are exactly at the half way stage and they are seven points ahead (with three goal difference less than us) but we have only played them once in the league and their squad strength hasn't been tested over the winter period. There is no doubt they have a decent top 13 players in their squad but the rest are less experienced.

If we win the second half of the league by the same difference points and equal goal difference then we win the league. If we beat them in all three games we are well on our way although that it is not a prerequisite.

[Broon]

We have come on leaps and bounds since last season. However, although I think St Mirren will drop points I don't think anyone else will put together the necessary run to win the league. We need to win on saturday (or at the worst get a draw) to have any realistic chance of staying in the race.

[wee john]

Other worrying stats are,
5 of our wins have been against the bottom 2.
16 of our goals against the bottom 2.
we have only scored more than once in a match against 1 other team, Hamilton.
we have yet to beat St Mirren, Scumdee, County and Stranrear.
The other 2 teams left in the league are Clyde, scored 1 in 2 matches, and Airdrie who gave us a trouncing and who we beat 1-0 in a very poor match.

NOT VERY INSPIRING READING WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THESE STATS.

[Saintkev]

Other facts are; we've not really played consistently well and we all seem in agreement that even with the squad we have, we can and should do better, yet despite this, we are in second place, and with a good performance and/or some luck next Saturday, we could be just four points behind the leaders... they'll have lost two on the bounce, we'll build confidence... and we look set to try and build on what we have in the transfer window...

KEEP THE FAITH!!!

[wee john]

Other worrying stats are,
5 of our wins have been against the bottom 2.
16 of our goals against the bottom 2.
we have only scored more than once in a match against 1 other team, Hamilton.
we have yet to beat St Mirren, Scumdee, County and Stranrear.
The other 2 teams left in the league are Clyde, scored 1 in 2 matches, and Airdrie who gave us a trouncing and who we beat 1-0 in a very poor match.

NOT VERY INSPIRING READING WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THESE STATS.
I love these kind of stats. The bottom two are there for a reason. Maybe if we'd won five games and scored sixteen goals against another couple of sides it would be them in the relegation zone.

You only need to score one more than the opposition to get three points and no one has ever said this league is anything but tight.

I wasn't at Dingwall so the only time I've seen us be outplayed is the second half at Airdrie and the second half against Hamilton in the Cup.

SO THEY ARE NOT A CONCERN THEN?

[Kevin]

Other worrying stats are,
5 of our wins have been against the bottom 2.
16 of our goals against the bottom 2.
we have only scored more than once in a match against 1 other team, Hamilton.
we have yet to beat St Mirren, Scumdee, County and Stranrear.
The other 2 teams left in the league are Clyde, scored 1 in 2 matches, and Airdrie who gave us a trouncing and who we beat 1-0 in a very poor match.

NOT VERY INSPIRING READING WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THESE STATS.
I love these kind of stats. The bottom two are there for a reason. Maybe if we'd won five games and scored sixteen goals against another couple of sides it would be them in the relegation zone.

You only need to score one more than the opposition to get three points and no one has ever said this league is anything but tight.

I wasn't at Dingwall so the only time I've seen us be outplayed is the second half at Airdrie and the second half against Hamilton in the Cup.

SO THEY ARE NOT A CONCERN THEN?

They are just stats, nothing more and nothing less. With stats you can read into them what you will but at the end of the day, it is what happens during the match that counts. As Radford says, you only need the extra goal to get the 3 points....

[wee john]

I love these kind of stats. The bottom two are there for a reason. Maybe if we'd won five games and scored sixteen goals against another couple of sides it would be them in the relegation zone.

You only need to score one more than the opposition to get three points and no one has ever said this league is anything but tight.

I wasn't at Dingwall so the only time I've seen us be outplayed is the second half at Airdrie and the second half against Hamilton in the Cup.
SO THEY ARE NOT A CONCERN THEN?
Not overly. It's not like we've been scraping wins, we've been winning by maybe one goal but deserving to win by more.

How many games this season have we been out-played in?

Well it worries me.
9 teams in the league and we have not beat 4 of the teams in 2 attempts.
I think on paper we have the best team in the league, but we cannot win the league on paper.
We have been outplayed more times than you think.
Airdrie (h) & (a)
Ross County (a)
St Mirren (h)
Hamilton (h)
and although we have murdered some teams this season we have still came away with a single point too many times.

[wee john]

[quote="wee john"][quote="Radford 72"][quote=wee john]
They are just stats, nothing more and nothing less. With stats you can read into them what you will but at the end of the day, it is what happens during the match that counts. As Radford says, you only need the extra goal to get the 3 points....


Stats are fact though and the fact is "AT THE END OF THE DAY" we have not got that extra goal to get the 3 points in lots of games.

[Kevin]

[quote="wee john"][quote=Radford 72][quote=wee john]
They are just stats, nothing more and nothing less. With stats you can read into them what you will but at the end of the day, it is what happens during the match that counts. As Radford says, you only need the extra goal to get the 3 points....


Stats are fact though and the fact is "AT THE END OF THE DAY" we have not got that extra goal to get the 3 points in lots of games.

Stats are only facts based on the time they exist. Take the Battle of the Little Big Horn, Custer's men had 20 times more bullets than the Native Americans did, but they still all died (with their boots on). In WW2 the German's had the more superior weaponary than the Allies and still lost.

Look at any electioneering, stats are ued to prove whatever you want to prove, they mean very little. It is when you are able to influence them that they make a difference and as we aer dealing with historical stats here then we cannot influence them at all. So, all they tell us is what has happened, not what is going to happen nor the likelihood of anything happening. We can all look for omens but they are not stats. Stats are just a series of numbers arranged in such a way as to provoke discussion. Which is obviously working :***:

[wee john]

[quote=wee john][quote=Radford 72][quote=wee john]
They are just stats, nothing more and nothing less. With stats you can read into them what you will but at the end of the day, it is what happens during the match that counts. As Radford says, you only need the extra goal to get the 3 points....


Stats are fact though and the fact is "AT THE END OF THE DAY" we have not got that extra goal to get the 3 points in lots of games.

Stats are only facts based on the time they exist. Take the Battle of the Little Big Horn, Custer's men had 20 times more bullets than the Native Americans did, but they still all died (with their boots on). In WW2 the German's had the more superior weaponary than the Allies and still lost.

Look at any electioneering, stats are ued to prove whatever you want to prove, they mean very little. It is when you are able to influence them that they make a difference and as we aer dealing with historical stats here then we cannot influence them at all. So, all they tell us is what has happened, not what is going to happen nor the likelihood of anything happening. We can all look for omens but they are not stats. Stats are just a series of numbers arranged in such a way as to provoke discussion. Which is obviously working :***:

Aye right Kevin :shock:

[SaintSam1884]

I love these kind of stats. The bottom two are there for a reason. Maybe if we'd won five games and scored sixteen goals against another couple of sides it would be them in the relegation zone.

You only need to score one more than the opposition to get three points and no one has ever said this league is anything but tight.

I wasn't at Dingwall so the only time I've seen us be outplayed is the second half at Airdrie and the second half against Hamilton in the Cup.
SO THEY ARE NOT A CONCERN THEN?
Not overly. It's not like we've been scraping wins, we've been winning by maybe one goal but deserving to win by more.

How many games this season have we been out-played in?

Well it worries me.
9 teams in the league and we have not beat 4 of the teams in 2 attempts.
I think on paper we have the best team in the league, but we cannot win the league on paper.


That's exactly what I've been saying.

We probably do have the best squad on paper but like you say, we cannot win the league on paper.

[Ronaldo]

They are just stats, nothing more and nothing less. With stats you can read into them what you will but at the end of the day, it is what happens during the match that counts. As Radford says, you only need the extra goal to get the 3 points....


Stats are fact though and the fact is "AT THE END OF THE DAY" we have not got that extra goal to get the 3 points in lots of games.

Stats are only facts based on the time they exist. Take the Battle of the Little Big Horn, Custer's men had 20 times more bullets than the Native Americans did, but they still all died (with their boots on). In WW2 the German's had the more superior weaponary than the Allies and still lost.

Look at any electioneering, stats are ued to prove whatever you want to prove, they mean very little. It is when you are able to influence them that they make a difference and as we aer dealing with historical stats here then we cannot influence them at all. So, all they tell us is what has happened, not what is going to happen nor the likelihood of anything happening. We can all look for omens but they are not stats. Stats are just a series of numbers arranged in such a way as to provoke discussion. Which is obviously working :***:

Aye right Kevin :shock:
On the other hand the 7th Cavalry were led by a complete loony called Custer and we're led by Owney Coyle, not quite as loony. Also Custer decided to congregate his men in the middle thereby letting the Indians (the Sioux) to circle them in a stranglehold whereas we'll be in the West Stand. Like Kevin said it doesn't matter if we're outnumbered just look at when 100 British troops were situated at an army hospital unit in Bourke's Drift in the Natal region of South Africa and 4000 Zulus turned up We fought hard and got an away draw.

We have won five of our games by more than one goal difference whereas they have won four by more than one goal difference. If our 1-1 draws had been 1-0 games like many of theirs then we would be well ahead. Their main asset is their defence only at (home) while Saints is their attack . Their defence has let five more goals in than us away from home which sort of destroys their home defensive record which is two conceded. We have scored 13 goals away and they have scored 10 at home. We have scored 32 goals in the league this season (47 in total), they have scored 28 goals in the league (37 in total) and yet they have won more games and got to the Challenge Cup Final. We've had many injuries this season (which we've managed to smooth over) they've not had many. How is Peaso anyway?

The facts show that we're behind on points but as I mentioned in a previous post on the old forum it is a four lap race. I said then it would be great if we sat just behind them at the end of the second lap. When Sebastian Coe was running we knew he was better on paper but those who supported him didn't get negative if he wasn't in the lead during the middle of the race. It's the finish that counts. Remember 1990 when we were three wins and a draw behind Airdrie going into April (seven points then but ten now) and we won the league.

Aye, Aye, Aye, Aye
For we are the 'Crazy Young Saints'
Where er we go we fear no foe,
For we are the 'Crazy Young Saints'.

We can still lose and win the league because a team that scrapes wins by one goal as often as they do just needs a drop in confidence or form and they'll collapse.

[Saintkev]

I think what Ronaldo is saying is... Keep The Faith!

[wee john]

the meaningless stats are still there telling us a story.

we still have not beat county or the Midden, still only 1 goal against Clyde and again outplayed by Airdrie.
It does look good.

[Real Madrid]

One stat that says it all

For every 3 points we have St Mirren have collected about 4

[Ronaldo]

St.Mirren should have beaten an out of form Saints at home but they didn't.
St.Mirren as league leaders should have beaten one of the relegation candidates QOS away but they didn't.
St.Mirren as league leaders should have beaten one of the relegation candidates Brechin ar home easily but they didn't and jusy got the winner with minutes to go.
St.Mirren are not playing well either (and their easy patch is over).

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again"

I think St.Mirren are going to falter, they've already started.... but can Saints revive and get back at them?
The cup game is a problem at this time form wise but it is a break from the league and we can use it to get a couple of players settled in as a priority hopefully IMO.

Happy New Year !!! :D

[mainstand]

St.Mirren should have beaten an out of form Saints at home but they didn't.
St.Mirren as league leaders should have beaten one of the relegation candidates QOS away but they didn't.
St.Mirren as league leaders should have beaten one of the relegation candidates Brechin ar home easily but they didn't and jusy got the winner with minutes to go.
St.Mirren are not playing well either (and their easy patch is over).

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again"

I think St.Mirren are going to falter, they've already started.... but can Saints revive and get back at them?
The cup game is a problem at this time form wise but it is a break from the league and we can use it to get a couple of players settled in as a priority hopefully IMO.

Happy New Year !!! :D

Agree Ronaldo. far too many negative comments on this site these days God at this rate we'll have a poll should coyle stay or go shortly. :wink:

[dave mc]

Stay