Where do we need to strenthen in the January sales

[Broggy Man]

I still think the midfield isnt right. Sheerin blows hot and cold Stevenson is in and out a game McCann doesnt seem to be the answer although that said they have all played ten times better this season but there is still something missing :?:

Discuss

[saintsam90]

yes im with you there we need another midfielder to be a bit stronger we need some one who has loads of speed and can push up quicker and maybe get a few goals :***:

[Wellsy]

Think you've hit the nail on the head Broggy Man. Sheridan is the only one who would get a game for any of the other top 5 teams in the league. Ross County's midfield has looked pretty decent and they're in trouble financially, why don't we go for one or two of them?

[saintsam90]

broggy man never said sheridan he said SHEERIN :?:

[Wellsy]

I know what he said Saintsam, I was talking about the midfiled as a whole, SHERIDAN is the only one worthy of a starting jersey. Stevenson looks knackered after 60 minutes, Sheerin's had four good games since we signed him and McCann just doesn't look up to it.

[saintsam90]

ok :!:

[Finners]

Hi, I'm Finners - new to this website etc. Em, yeah sheridan is pulling his weight, mcCann never seems to get involved when he plays. Stevenson is good going forward but doesnt get included enough. Sheerin sometimes doesnt want to play by the looks of it.

[Chansey]

definatly something missing, and i probably agree with you about the midfield. I would also consider trying to get someone in on loan. St. Mirren have done it with charlie adam, and he seems to be done really well there, i would have no objections if OC went down that road.

[templeofsaints]

The problem with the midfield is consistency. They've all had a good game at one time or another but only Sheridan IMHO has been consistent all season. I'm surprised Scrabble didn't get a run out yesterday. Stevenson IMHO was very poor in the 2nd half whereas McCann came onto a better game.

But we need the midfield to take a bit more responsibility (and risks) in going forward - there were too many times yesterday when they seemed happy to sit back - look at when Stevenson had that good run. The only option for the cross / cutback was Scotland - where was McCann, Sheerin etc?

[Finners]

where is charlie adam being loaned from?

[saintsam90]

dunno :?:

[David]

where is charlie adam being loaned from?
Rangers.

[saintsam90]

who is he

[David]

who is he
Maybe if you'd quote a post, we'd know what you were on about. Take it you mean "who is Charlie Adam?"

A player on loan from Rangers to St Mirren, I'd suggest, but someone else said that a few posts ago!

[Rodgers]

I think we should do the same and go to rangers and celtic reserves and loan them out!
Get there help and get us in the SPL and then we have the money to buy better players :wink:

[Real Madrid]

I disagree, what we need to do is build a team to get promoted and stay in the SPL

If we just build a team of loan players and should we be promoted then Owen's going to have to rebuild a whole team in the SPL

[Calinho]

On paper its got as good names as any other squad in the league, maybe some people could use the excuse of not gelled yet but how long would it take if this was true? maybe the Training isnt as good as it should be?

[blueheaven]

I personally think that, if we're going to improve the squad, there are two players that we really need - a goalkeeper and a really good attacking midfielder. And, to be honest, I don't think we'll find either in Scotland. There's certainly nobody within the First Division who I think would particularly improve us.

Our current options in the attacking midfield role basically seem to boil down to Henry (looks a useful player, but hardly ever fit), and McCann (works hard, but personally I don't think he's quite good enough - he's certainly not the kind of stand-out player who's ever going to change a game for us). If we could bring in a good, athletic, imaginative attacking midfielder from somewhere abroad it would make a massive difference to us - quite possibly the difference between challenging and not challenging. Of course finding a player like that is another matter entirely, but they do exist - we managed to get Momo a few years back, and most other clubs of our size have had a similar example at some point over the last few years.

[Broggy Man]

I think the keeper has done enough to justify his place at the moment, I certainly wouldn't be in a rush to replace him in January. I just wonder how tempted Craig Hinchcliffe would be by first-team football at his age if he's still playing second-fiddle to Chris Smith though? Money is obviously the issue with that if it was to happen.

Rather than change the personnel in the midfield, I'd just like to see us commit more bodies into the box when we get the ball into the wide areas. Unless it's from the break down of a set-play, we rarely have anyone but Savo or Scotland in the box. McCann and Stevenson are both capable of getting beyond the strikers but they don't do it enough for my liking. I do think Ryan McCann is capable of playing the role you described, Gary, if he's given a run in the team.

All-in-all, I don't think there's a massive need to bring players in come January as we can get more out of the ones we have IMO.



Im with you on the keeper front Radford but i Think to much is asked of Sheriden week in week out and the guy must be thinking when are the rest of you going to take a game. Im not saying it is doom and gloom we are dominating teams without the end result but the trio of Stevenson Sheerin and McCann blow to much hot and cold for me and do seem to run out of ideas.

[Kyle]

Think we've got to ship out a few players first. David Hannah, Kevin Fotheringham (remember him - waster of space), Keiran McAnespie and possibly even Mark Campbell would be my suggestions. Hannah priority number one. His attitude is stinking.

After that we can maybe look at bringing players in. Reserve players in the preimer league would probably be our best option. Not sure who'll be available tbh... still a long time until january.

Certainly a midfielder is required... someone with creation to compliment Sheerin. No one ever moves for him so a quality player beside him would be useful.

A left sided defender to back up stanic. He gets injured, then we're in serious trouble. A goalkeeper if Paston is as bad an option as I've been lead to believe

[Broggy Man]

Think we've got to ship out a few players first. David Hannah, Kevin Fotheringham (remember him - waster of space), Keiran McAnespie and possibly even Mark Campbell would be my suggestions. Hannah priority number one. His attitude is stinking.The problem there is kyle that most of that lot are under contract and simply paying there cotracts off will not be an option. I recall that Kieran out of your list may be the only one we can get rid of.

After that we can maybe look at bringing players in. Reserve players in the preimer league would probably be our best option. Not sure who'll be available tbh... still a long time until january..
Again without a big investment from GB to get rid of the wasters and free up some wage budget this may not be an option even for loans as we would normally have to pick up the wage or at least a proportion of it.
Certainly a midfielder is required... someone with creation to compliment Sheerin. No one ever moves for him so a quality player beside him would be useful...I completly agree it is in the midfield that we lack i have said on other threads that Sheriden is left to perform weekly with the occasional chip in from the other three we need consistancy ther but as Temple or BH has said where do we get those players.


A left sided defender to back up stanic. He gets injured, then we're in serious trouble. A goalkeeper if Paston is as bad an option as I've been lead to believe
Stanic and Sheriden have been the biggest success story this season. I cant remember there contract lengths but i would be snaping them up for next season if we havent already.

[Maradona]

It's hard to say we seem to have a strong all-round team on paper, but I think we need a stronger defence with Patterson out injured, I think we've got a good keeper in Pastonjust needs to be given a decent run in the first team, Middfeld and upfront were looking ok but could do with a new face to keep everyone on there toes.

[HeronAddict]

Does anyone else think that the tactics we're playing at the moment really don't suit the players we have avaliable? Against Clyde we played with what were basically four central midfielders flat across the park. Probably our best performances this season have been with a 4-3-1-2, with Henry or Scotland in front of a narrow three central midfielders, Stevenson and Sheerin either side of Sheridan. This seemed to give Sheerin in particular much more license to get forward from a central area, and did he not gave great games in this position against QOS and Hamilton? Obviously this system is more attacking, as the full backs need to come forward to provide some width, but I feel we should be sticking with it, at least at home.

On Saturday Sheerin was playing as an orthodox left winger, and that simply isn't his game. So if we stick with a 4-4-2, then I think we really need to find at least one old fashioned winger, unless I'd like to see us go back to a 4-3-1-2.

[Broon]

I know we are crying out for a creative midfielder but I also think we are desperate for some height in the middle. We are persisting with this high ball from the keeper/defenders yet only Stevenson can come close to heading a ball from the midfield forward. The solution for me would be stopping the high ball but we all know thats never going to happen.

[Kyle]

From what I hear, hannah is desperate to leave. Don't think it'd take much for him to leave - maybe a couple of months wages which we'd lose on him over the season anyway.

The others were more wishes than certainties. Fotheringham has taken Saints for a ride - no two ways about it - and I want to see the back of him. Was very unhappy about him coming, replacing Malone... who I still think is a much better player than him. Infact, he was excellent for Clyde yet again on Saturday.

I just don't feel Campbell is good enough. He tries, but he's just too slow and doesn't offer enough to the team as a whole when playing. The two Kevs at centrehalf have been working well together. Bit of a shame for him really.

Alot of the SPL clubs will be wanting to just get players off the wage bill... Kinda like we do with Hannah etc... so if any enquires come in they may be willing to let them go cheaply.

We'll see though - I'm hopeful

[Broggy Man]

From what I hear, hannah is desperate to leave. Don't think it'd take much for him to leave - maybe a couple of months wages which we'd lose on him over the season anyway.

The others were more wishes than certainties. Fotheringham has taken Saints for a ride - no two ways about it - and I want to see the back of him. Was very unhappy about him coming, replacing Malone... who I still think is a much better player than him. Infact, he was excellent for Clyde yet again on Saturday.

I just don't feel Campbell is good enough. He tries, but he's just too slow and doesn't offer enough to the team as a whole when playing. The two Kevs at centrehalf have been working well together. Bit of a shame for him really.

Alot of the SPL clubs will be wanting to just get players off the wage bill... Kinda like we do with Hannah etc... so if any enquires come in they may be willing to let them go cheaply.

We'll see though - I'm hopeful

If you were a manager Kyle would you buy Hannah considering the baggage he carry's :?: :?: :?: :shock:

[chopper]

From what I hear, hannah is desperate to leave. Don't think it'd take much for him to leave - maybe a couple of months wages which we'd lose on him over the season anyway.

As much as I am a huge critic of Hannah and would want rid of him quick as, do you not think, especially as we have shown recently with injuries and suspensions, to keep Hannah unless someone particularly wants him so he can provide cover both at the back and in the middle?

[blueheaven]

Fotheringham has taken Saints for a ride - no two ways about it -

In what way has he taken Saints from a ride? What has he done that's so terrible apart from get injured? If he's taken Saints for a ride, does that mean the same is true of Scott Patterson, John Henry and countless others from down the years?

I just don't understand this disliking people have for Fotheringham. What has he done to deserve it? When he first arrived at the club he played fantastically for us, scored some good goals, and most people on the old forum who hadn't wanted him here were openly eating their words. Then he got injured, was brought back too early through no fault of his own, had some poor games as a result and then ended up with an even worse injury. The guy's had bad luck with injuries - does that mean he's "taking us for a ride"? I think you're being very unfair, unless of course you're referring to something else which you haven't mentioned.

I personally think he's an excellent left-back who would offer a lot to our defence if he was fit at the moment. I hope he's available again soon because if I was the manager he'd be a major part of my plans.

[blueheaven]

I think the keeper has done enough to justify his place at the moment, I certainly wouldn't be in a rush to replace him in January.

Don't get me wrong, I think Cuthbert's a decent keeper. I gave him my MoM for Saturday and think his form's been good lately - but I do have my doubts about whether he is quite good enough if we're really going to get beyond our current status. A lot of the time when we let in goals, I find myself thinking that a slightly better keeper would have made the save. Off the top of my head, McLaughlin's goal against us at Palmerston is one example. There are quite a few others too. It's not that he makes mistakes - it's just that I'd like to see us have someone better.

I do think Ryan McCann is capable of playing the role you described, Gary, if he's given a run in the team.

I don't like to criticise McCann because his workrate and attitude (sorry if I sound a bit like Paul Sturrock there!) are fantastic. But, if we're looking for a permanent option for that attacking midfield role, he's not the answer. He's a worker, but he's not creative. His shooting is very poor (that weak effort on Saturday as a prime example!) and he's never going to play a killer pass or transform a game with his presence. He's a good mid-table First Division player, but he's never shown himself to be any more than that - if we want to start moving up the leagues, we need a better player than him in such a crucial position.

[auld reekie saint]

I feel we could do with an old fashioned winger.There is not enough width to our play.Its either the long ball for Milne to run on to or we try and threat it throughthe eye of an needle Arsenal style.
Also we need to make more front post runs .One of pet hates is a good ball to the front post but nobody on the receiving end.
Fotheringham and Hannah need to go.

[Chansey]

Fotheringham has taken Saints for a ride - no two ways about it -

In what way has he taken Saints from a ride? What has he done that's so terrible apart from get injured? If he's taken Saints for a ride, does that mean the same is true of Scott Patterson, John Henry and countless others from down the years?

I just don't understand this disliking people have for Fotheringham. What has he done to deserve it? When he first arrived at the club he played fantastically for us, scored some good goals, and most people on the old forum who hadn't wanted him here were openly eating their words. Then he got injured, was brought back too early through no fault of his own, had some poor games as a result and then ended up with an even worse injury. The guy's had bad luck with injuries - does that mean he's "taking us for a ride"? I think you're being very unfair, unless of course you're referring to something else which you haven't mentioned.

I personally think he's an excellent left-back who would offer a lot to our defence if he was fit at the moment. I hope he's available again soon because if I was the manager he'd be a major part of my plans.

100% agree!! Some of our fans definatley are too quick 2 jump on the bandwagon of critisising our players after a poor game or two, dobbie is on the end of it at the moment......lets give the guys a break and get behind them!!

[Cagey]

Agree with Broggie. The midfield is the problem with Sheridan the only one with passmarks & has been MOM in most games alough I thought Saturday was his worst game for us but still got MoM in most papers.

Stevenson is not a right winger but is doing his best. The tactic seems to be ,hit a high ball to Stevo to nod on (to who). I think he would be better in behind the front 2. He would then get in the box more & he is capable of scoring unlike any of the other midfielders.

Mccann has just not done it this season & can`t see anything changing.

Sheerin is just non existant unless we are winning. I feel sorry for Stanic. He makes some good runs down the wing & finds there is no one to support him as Sheerin is far too slow never takes a good position for a pass.

The only midfielder I have seen getting in the box this season is Kevin Moon & he has only played 20 mins`.

[pezza70]

If we are to attract a creative player or two on the promise of SPL football, come the Jan transfer window, it shows how important our next 4 or 5 games are going to be.

Its one thing to promise SPL football but if we are 12 or 13 behind the leaders, that could be a stumbling block for us.

How in the hell did we ever find MoMo?

Surely there must be another like him out there somewhere itching for a crack at the big time, who will come to us on the cheap.

[Saint Paul]

I agree that we need some sort of creative player from the middle of the park, but that also has the ability to tackle.

I still think that we need a first choice keeper as Paston has not proven himself, and although Cuthbert has had some pretty good games this season, there are still times where he makes simple errors to cost us games. I think that he should be past the "learning his trade" excuses and is just as vunerable as anyone else in the team.

I would aslo ask the question if we need another striker. Coyle seems reluctant to play himself too much, which I respect immensley as I like a manager to manage and a player to play, but Dobbie has been extremely poor recently and Scotland has, IMO, failed to live up to the expectations that we all had. Jackson is still at Cowdenbeath and this leaves Milne carrying the load himself upfront, which he has done fantastically so far, but how many of us started worrying about injuries when he was taken off on Saturday ?

[Kevin]

I still think that we need a first choice keeper as Paston has not proven himself, and although Cuthbert has had some pretty good games this season, there are still times where he makes simple errors to cost us games. I think that he should be past the "learning his trade" excuses and is just as vunerable as anyone else in the team.

Name me a goalie who this doesn't apply to SP. Every goalie in the world makes these simple errors every so often and I do not think Kev is any different. What he does need to do is sort out the box and claim the ball more, although I think that since Kevin James arrived he has got worse as James ignores everyone else and does his own thing, regardless :?

[MUZZ]

i'm with those who feel we need an attacking midfielder. our defence is looking better now and were scoring goals but i just feel were missing something in the middle. like others have said though, finding that player aint gonna be easy.

[gc7969]

Before the transfer window, I would like to see McManus, Dyer, Scrabble, Moon (if over his injuries) get their chance. I do not think they are worse than the two Ryans or unfit Henry. Sheerin is not my favourite and Sheridan will tire.

A creative midfielder is undoubtedly needed and I think McManus has an opportunity to take that spot.

The system the team uses also needs to be addressed. Scotland is better playing behind a front two. I would experiment with Stanic on the right and Dyer on the left. Everytime I have seen Stanic he looks to play with his right foot.

As far as loan players are concerned my opinion is fine as long as they come from down south. I do not want to help the forces from the west. Newcastle have some very good youngsters judging by their team for Weir's testimonial. Maybe ?

[blueheaven]

As far as loan players are concerned my opinion is fine as long as they come from down south. I do not want to help the forces from the west. Newcastle have some very good youngsters judging by their team for Weir's testimonial. Maybe ?

Although I'm no fan of loan deals, I agree that if we could somehow get a good creative midfielder on loan from a Premiership club if could potentially make a massive difference to us. Completely agree too about not loaning players from the OF - I can't stand seeing Saints do that.

[Chansey]

Completely agree too about not loaning players from the OF - I can't stand seeing Saints do that.

So you weren't happy about bringing McGregor even though he done a famtastic job for us, although i don't like helping the OF if it benefits saints i'm happy!

[KirrieSaintee]

One area that we need to strengthen is our right back position.My opinion is that Anderson looks a far better player when hes playing in the middle of the defence or hes doing a marking job.Mensing is much the same but with both James and Rutkiewicz being the first choices its hard to see Coyle playing them their.Agree with the points about a creative midfielder but not to many of them going about.Very impressed with Rankin when we played County recently. He constantly supported his strikers and is a real goal threat as we found out to our cost and Dundee did last week.One of my criticisims of Saints is that we always seem to play at the same tempo, sometimes making 3 or 4 passes when one would do. I would like to see us playing 4-3-1-2 with Jason Scotland playing as the floating player.Scotland does give the impression of being lazy but hes a quality player and i think hed be a far dangerous player getting the ball at his feet in a wide position and running at the oppisition defence rather than getting the ball with his back to the goal looking for a midfield ruuner.Not taking our chances has cost us 5 points in the last two games and we have to be far more ruthless in this department.

[blueheaven]

Sorry to disagree again but I'd love for us to have Charlie Adam right now. He's made a huge difference to St Mirren's midfield and turned the game against Clyde a fortnight ago when he came off the bench (which he was only on because he was being given a rest). Ryan McCann gave his all for us whilst he was here and Allan McGregor made a good contribution too.

Can't comment on Adam because I don't know anything about him. McCann's an alright player, but nothing special and I can't remember him making much difference to us when he was here last time - my opinion of him then was pretty much the same as it is now: he's an honest, hard-working pro who won't let us down but won't do many things that are particularly memorable either. McGregor did a good job for us, yes.

I struggle to think of any other loan players we've had who've done much either. Miller was a reasonable keeper but a bit dodgy, Lynch was rubbish, Noble wasn't much better. I concede that I thought Mark Robertson was excellent for us though/

So you weren't happy about bringing McGregor even though he done a famtastic job for us, although i don't like helping the OF if it benefits saints i'm happy!.

No, I wasn't happy about bringing McGregor here and at the time I was far from the only one. I was dead against the concept of replacing our own young, inexperienced keeper with another club's similarly young and even more inexperienced keeper. What's more, a keeper who would only be here for a few months before buggering off back to his own club and leaving our defence in complete dissarray because of our own club's failure to find a long-term option. We helped to develop a young Rangers keeper at the expense of developing Kevin Cuthbert, and the irony of it is that at the end of it all, after all that time, who's our number 1 keeper now? That's right, Kevin Cuthbert. So what did we really gain out of it?

I don't deny that McGregor did a good job for us in the short time he was here, and I was happy to support him as long as he was pulling on a Saints jersey, but I also have to say that he's nowhere near as good as a lot of the people on the BH forum seemed to enjoy making him out to be. We had people calling him a "legend" when he left, and then during the summer there were actually folk saying they'd rather sign him than Mostovoi!!! :shock: McGregor is not a Saints legend by any stretch of the imagination, and he doesn't seem particularly close to becoming one with Dunfermline either.

[Chansey]

i agree with you he is nowhere near a saints legend, i actually laughed at that concept when i read it, BUT i hate to consider this; if it wasn't for that run of form in december when McGregor was in goal, i fear we may well have been playing in div 2 this season, thats what benefit i think McGregor brought to the club.

[blueheaven]

i agree with you he is nowhere near a saints legend, i actually laughed at that concept when i read it, BUT i hate to consider this; if it wasn't for that run of form in december when McGregor was in goal, i fear we may well have been playing in div 2 this season, thats what benefit i think McGregor brought to the club.

I agree with you that that December run of form (can't believe it was almost a whole year ago!) was vital for us last season, but McGregor was just one player out of 11 who brought us those results. There's no way of proving whether or not that run would have been any different had there been someone else in goal - I personally don't think he contributed any more to it than any of the other guys who were playing in the team at the time.

[Broon]

Regarding McGregor, I heard he is actually doing well at Dunfermline - its just that they are really bad. Goalkeepers struggle with dodgy defences - its hard for them to shine when they are constantly exposed. He was excellent for us - I would argue that our defence played much better with him in behind and that was they key to the run of clean sheets.

Going back to the earlier topic about goalkeepers dealing with crosses. Can you actually name me one who can do this? Almost every keeper playing the professional game is a decent shot stopper - what makes a difference is the ability to organise your defence, distribution and ability at crosses. There are only a handful of keepers worldwide who will constantly come and claim crosses. Most punch or stay on their line. On our budget - we either need an old school keeper or happen to stumble on the next Alan Main - highly unlikely. Cuthbert is a decent keeper - we should probably stick with him just now.

As for a signing, I was talking to a mate who was saying Ryan McStay at Falkirk cant even make the bench - looked good whenever I saw him.

[Broon]

Scotland has, IMO, failed to live up to the expectations that we all had

Easily our most exciting player. If you take him and Milne out the Saints team it would be like watching paint dry. Scotland is a brilliant player - a joy to watch something a bit different.

[HeronAddict]

For the attacking midfielder position, how about Alan Jenkins from Stranraer? Got a mate at uni who's a Stranny fan and rates him really highly, and I've seen him score a few crackers from about 25 yards on the telly. He's supposed to be a real box-to-box player, getting forward to support the strikers really well. I think that's what we need, as we've not had a goalscoring midfielder since probably John O'Neil. John Rankin from Ross County is another player who does a similar sort of thing, and he might be availiable because of County's financial problems.

[Broggy Man]

i agree with you he is nowhere near a saints legend, i actually laughed at that concept when i read it, BUT i hate to consider this; if it wasn't for that run of form in december when McGregor was in goal, i fear we may well have been playing in div 2 this season, thats what benefit i think McGregor brought to the club.

I agree with you that that December run of form (can't believe it was almost a whole year ago!) was vital for us last season, but McGregor was just one player out of 11 who brought us those results. There's no way of proving whether or not that run would have been any different had there been someone else in goal - I personally don't think he contributed any more to it than any of the other guys who were playing in the team at the time.

People keep on about the December run but to be honest look at the fixtures close your eyes and i think you will come up with the same thoughts we rode our luck its in the past forget about it.

We dont need a keeper he will bring nothing to Saints as a untit the Cat is doing fine. We need a right back who can distribute the ball get forward and who can at least deliver a cross that gets past the first man. We need an attacking midfielder who can link between midfield and attack and can get into the box. We also need to offload the dead wood we have on the wage bill. It is big decision time for GB in January or perhaps even now does he invest by getting rid of the players OC does not see in his plans and allow OC to contact players now with a view to January or do we accept that players are under contract and look forward to next season when the OC building program will continue.
If it is t be the first i will make the unpopular suggestions.
Stevenson OUT (he has had his chance yes he has immproved but not enough)

Sheerin OUT ( he blows hot and cold far to often only plays well when the team plays well cannot dig us out a hole when we need him does have talent seen it in the past but you can count his great performances on one hand)

Hannah OUT (our esteemed club captain joke he does not care about the club shown by his recent appearance in dundee pub quizz rather than appearing at the Hamilton game)

Campbell OUT (need i say more?????)
Paterson OUT (shame because i like his style and need to get the ball on the deck but Saints cannot afford this)

Henry OUT (he offers nothing but overtime for the physio i have no dobt that he was at one time a good pro but consistency can only be gained with games he spends more time on the crocks list)

Fotheringham OUT (i would rather have a youngster backing up Stanic than a crock)

Keyring ???? (not sure about him would like to see him being fit and having a run he is a hard tackler works so maybe again injury prone so maybe should be shown the door)

We do have Dyer Mooner etc to fill the injury gaps but we need to offload but I think it may be to late for this season but GB and OC should and probably will be talking about changes it is really down to GB wether he has the bottle to do it as even if the league is out of our grasp this season we wouldnt be going through the gelling process next and would be in a position to pick and choose during the summer break without hunting down what was left.
and
For gods sake give Sheriden another year's contract before Gretna or someone hunt him down with big money talk..

Sorry if this upsets BH (wizard) and others but look at the performances both in quality and number since these players signed and i dont think we will be far away from agreeing if of course you take the time to look...

[blueheaven]

Sorry if this upsets BH (wizard) and others but look at the performances both in quality and number since these players signed and i dont think we will be far away from agreeing if of course you take the time to look...

Doesn't really upset me, but I do think that maybe you're setting your standards a bit unrealistically high. It's all very well saying we should punt the likes of Sheerin, Stevenson, Henry, Hannah and Keyring, but that practically leaves us without a midfield and who on earth are we going to replace them with? I think that most opposition fans and managers would say that guys like Stevenson and Sheerin are among the best players they've come up against in the division, but here we are wanting to get rid of them?

Of course there's nothing wrong with wanting to do better, but I don't think there are many other players who are both better AND gettable for Saints. I really think that the onus should now be on Coyle to get the best out of the players he has - not for yet more wholesale chopping and changing to the squad. I think the squad is actuallly pretty strong and if OC can get them playing consistently to their best, they're the best team in the division. I do think we need a couple of better players (as I said above), but I think that if you go axing massive sections of the squad you'll find that the replacements we end up bringing in just won't be any better.

Totally agree about Sheridan though - give him another year NOW. There's no point in waiting around. I want him here next season regardless of what division we're in.

[Broggy Man]

Sorry if this upsets BH (wizard) and others but look at the performances both in quality and number since these players signed and i dont think we will be far away from agreeing if of course you take the time to look...

Doesn't really upset me, but I do think that maybe you're setting your standards a bit unrealistically high. It's all very well saying we should punt the likes of Sheerin, Stevenson, Henry, Hannah and Keyring, but that practically leaves us without a midfield and who on earth are we going to replace them with? I think that most opposition fans and managers would say that guys like Stevenson and Sheerin are among the best players they've come up against in the division, but here we are wanting to get rid of them?

Of course there's nothing wrong with wanting to do better, but I don't think there are many other players who are both better AND gettable for Saints. I really think that the onus should now be on Coyle to get the best out of the players he has - not for yet more wholesale chopping and changing to the squad. I think the squad is actuallly pretty strong and if OC can get them playing consistently to their best, they're the best team in the division. I do think we need a couple of better players (as I said above), but I think that if you go axing massive sections of the squad you'll find that the replacements we end up bringing in just won't be any better.

Totally agree about Sheridan though - give him another year NOW. There's no point in waiting around. I want him here next season regardless of what division we're in.

BH i said if our chairman really wanted to look to the future and invest which probably he wont do these were the players i would start with but of course only if we had replacements or cover from elsewhere. I am not saying that these players are utter crap as far as Sheerin goes we have seen that he is not it is a question of consistancy and even you the proclaimer of his wizard status must be slightly disapointed at his time here?
Therfore i am simply saying that if GB is looking to write some of his cash of in view of his impending 3rd quarter tax bill then an investment in the club by paying off these contracts assuming the OC has identified replacements and those replacements are willing and take our club to the next level then these would be the players i would be looking at getting rid of for the reasons previously stated and i did not state that Sheerin was a bad player simply that he was inconsistant..

[chopper]

Broggy, I think you are being a bit harsh there.

For me, we can't change a whole midfield (or whole defence, or whole strikeforce) in the January transfer window. I agree with the comments made by Steve Bruce who put forward that the summer is where you make wholesale changes, the January window is for tweaking the squad for any unexpected circumstances that have arisen during the first half of the season.

For us, unexpected circumstances would be:

- lack of form shown by Mark Campbell and injury to Scott Paterson resulting in his likely departure
- injuries to players who would have been considered as first-teamers (McAnespie, Janczyk, Kevin Fotheringham, John Henry, Peter MacDonald in addition to Paterson)

And the resolution being:

- another centre-half, or for me the better solution of another full-back (right-sided) with the potential for Anderson and Mensing to act as the back-up centre-halves/first choice centre-half alongside Rutkiewicz/James (delete as appropriate)

- ensuring that those coming back from injuries are not rushed back and that cover is available for these injuries should they re-occur.

[blueheaven]

BH i said if our chairman really wanted to look to the future and invest which probably he wont do these were the players i would start with but of course only if we had replacements or cover from elsewhere. I am not saying that these players are utter crap as far as Sheerin goes we have seen that he is not it is a question of consistancy and even you the proclaimer of his wizard status must be slightly disapointed at his time here?

I think he could have done better in more games, but at the same time I don't think he's been anywhere near as bad as a lot of people have made out - particularly last season, when he seemed to get stick regardless of how well or how poorly he was playing.

Therfore i am simply saying that if GB is looking to write some of his cash of in view of his impending 3rd quarter tax bill then an investment in the club by paying off these contracts assuming the OC has identified replacements and those replacements are willing and take our club to the next level then these would be the players i would be looking at getting rid of for the reasons previously stated and i did not state that Sheerin was a bad player simply that he was inconsistant..

I do understand the point you were making and realise you didn't say these guys were bad players - my point was just that, if GB does decide he's willing to pay them off, I don't think that the replacements OC would have to bring in would likely be any better. If there was a chance of GB throwing a bit of cash around during the transfer window, I'd rather see it spent on bringing in one really good creative midfielder who can make a big impact in the team and not just another player who's more or less the same standard as everyone else. I don't think we'd be able to find such a player within Scotland though.

I do agree that there are some players in the squad who should be moved on, but I wouldn't get rid of as many as you suggested.

[Broggy Man]

Broggy, I think you are being a bit harsh there.

For me, we can't change a whole midfield (or whole defence, or whole strikeforce) in the January transfer window. I agree with the comments made by Steve Bruce who put forward that the summer is where you make wholesale changes, the January window is for tweaking the squad for any unexpected circumstances that have arisen during the first half of the season.

For us, unexpected circumstances would be:

- lack of form shown by Mark Campbell and injury to Scott Paterson resulting in his likely departure
- injuries to players who would have been considered as first-teamers (McAnespie, Janczyk, Kevin Fotheringham, John Henry, Peter MacDonald in addition to Paterson)

And the resolution being:

- another centre-half, or for me the better solution of another full-back (right-sided) with the potential for Anderson and Mensing to act as the back-up centre-halves/first choice centre-half alongside Rutkiewicz/James (delete as appropriate)

- ensuring that those coming back from injuries are not rushed back and that cover is available for these injuries should they re-occur.

Im sorry :oops: probaly typing without reading again.

My point is that these are people over the coming months i would be looking to move on or replace for the reasons stated.
I was suggesting that this should start in january with the likes of hannah. I meant only to ship the others if replacements were available and willing so as we were in a stronger position at the start of next season. I am not saying the league is over but if you look at the midden position they continued to build and ill bet they add in january. I just hope GB doesnt slam the purse strings shut but there are certain players at the club if finances allowed that i think we should be speaking to with a view to making them an offer to buy out contracts to enable the manager to immprove the side. I know this costs but as everbody knows promotion will cost it is getting the balance correct.

I think on the whole it has been a fairly positive start although not setting the heather on fire. We are domminating teams without killing them off. We have seen quite a few of the players now for over a season and should be able to make our minds up about them as will JW etc. It is always going to be a building process and i think if we continue to build we will see the benefits more next season. Consistancy is the key and to be honest far to many of our players are inconsistant.

[Broggy Man]

['d rather see it spent on bringing in one really good creative midfielder who can make a big impact in the team and not just another player who's more or less the same standard as everyone else. I don't think we'd be able to find such a player within Scotland though.

I do agree that there are some players in the squad who should be moved on, but I wouldn't get rid of as many as you suggested.

Can i ask you a question then BH

Is it the wage structure at Saints that is stoping us finding this elusive flair player? Or is it just that they are few and far between?
(sorry 2 questions)

[blueheaven]

Can i ask you a question then BH

Is it the wage structure at Saints that is stoping us finding this elusive flair player? Or is it just that they are few and far between?
(sorry 2 questions)

Obviously that's difficult for me to answer because I'm not privy to Saints' wage structure and I also don't have my own scouting network! :wink: :) But, if I was to try to take an educated guess, I'd say that it's probably a bit of both. I don't think that Saints have the sort of wage structure that really allows us to attract players much better than we already have. I think that most players in Scotland who are better than the current Saints team are already in the SPL, so there'd be no reason for them to want to sign for us. We could go down the route of trying to tempt SPL fringe-players with first-team football... we've done that recently with guys like Dobbie and Jancyk, and although they're both decent players, neither of them have been stand-outs. In fact, neither of them are first-team picks even for Saints at the moment.

I strongly feel that if we want a flair player who can really stand out in this division and transform the team's fortunes, we need to look abroad. It may involve taking more of a chance on foreign players looking for trials. It may involve being pro-active in approaching foreign agents to ask what they have available. I really don't have the answer to what the best approach would be. I just think that the sort of player we need - one who is both significantly better than the current mob and might be willing to come here - just doesn't exist in Scotland.

[gc7969]

We can all argue the merits or otherwise of the players, which players we would change given the opportunity but I come back to the one constant in Saints over recent years, we have not had a consistent approach as to how we actually play the game. Managers have come and gone, talking about passing the ball when on the pitch the order of the punt has been the style of play.

Positions: Goalkeeper - Cuthbert is as good as it gets at our level for a shot stopper which given the lack of wingers in the game is the main requirement for a goalkeeper. It looks to me that he has bulked up a bit this year and is becoming more dominant although James ignores him like everyone else.

Fullbacks - right side is a problem, left side is covered.
Central defence - acceptable but not good "football" players. Instead of the pass or cushioned header to our own players, big punts or headers to anywhere.
Midfield- lacks leadership, quality playmakers, pace. The question is why McManus, Moon, Scrabble have not been more involved giving the failings every week.
Wide- not working as the players there are not "wide " players.
Front - flatters to deceive. Something is lacking, not only the quality of ball through to them but the lack of jioned up play between them.

How do we solve it?

Wages - apparently Hearts players are on a basic

[Chansey]

from the posts above, it is obvious people agree that there is something lacking.....however no one can be specific as to what. On paper we seem to have the squad, as alot of us thought we would be right up there this season, and presently it is not looking promising. I aree with people that we need a flair player in that midfield, i just don't understand why the likes of janny and mcmanus haven't been give their chance on the pitch! I am in no way putting pressure on OC here, as i feel he has potential in the job, and know he needs time. BUT i feel the lack of success could be down to some of his inexperienced decisions. I feel we lack variety in our play, very rarely changing the style of play. Our startring line up is too consistent every week, OC doesn't seem to be changing players around, especially in the midfield, which may have resulted in players now expecting to be named on the team sheet. These are only suggestions as to what may be going wrong.....but my faith is in OC to turn it around again soon, starting tomorrow against stranraer.

[Cagey]

Agree with your summing up gc.

If we could find a good Polish midfielder we could probably double our crowd as there are a now few Poles in Perthshire.

[Kevin]

Looks like Ian Harty has become available again.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hamilton_academical/4480984.stm

[blueheaven]

Good for Ian Harty.

I wouldn't touch him firstly because he wasn't interested in coming here a year ago (and maybe this summer too) and secondly because he's been taking Hamilton for a ride.

What did he do? It's not clear from the BBC story.

[Cagey]

Kerni` will take him on at Scumdee if they can scrape up some money.

[Tranmere Saintee]

Throwing an old favourite of mine back in the hat - I reckon Mark Corcoran could well be available in the Jan window. He is not getting many starts for St Midden due to them playing 3/5/2 most of the time, but he is still turning games when he comes on as a late sub and has been the main reason they have scored so many late goals.

Could well be worth a shot on the left flank.

[saintbear]

Throwing an old favourite of mine back in the hat - I reckon Mark Corcoran could well be available in the Jan window. He is not getting many starts for St Midden due to them playing 3/5/2 most of the time, but he is still turning games when he comes on as a late sub and has been the main reason they have scored so many late goals.

Could well be worth a shot on the left flank.

hes a player i thuoght we could go after,while at hamilton rate him very highly[like his direct approach

[McCallum]

Sounds like the Polish lads we've got on trial have impressed tonight. Coyle's saying the big Polish lad notched all 3 goals really well in a 3-0 win.

Possibly moving in for these boys in the transfer window if he decides they're better than what we've got. Sounds promising with them playing for a top Polish side and with their season closing down their able to come on loan.

Good result at paisley tonight aswell with Airdrie taking a point. Mon the Saints

[saint_markperth]

Sounds like the Polish lads we've got on trial have impressed tonight. Coyle's saying the big Polish lad notched all 3 goals really well in a 3-0 win.

Possibly moving in for these boys in the transfer window if he decides they're better than what we've got. Sounds promising with them playing for a top Polish side and with their season closing down their able to come on loan.

Good result at paisley tonight aswell with Airdrie taking a point. Mon the Saints

Do we have any idea whose these players are?

[phatboydim]

bit strange, OC only says they play for a big polish club, a bit vague if you ask me.

[chopper]

bit strange, OC only says they play for a big polish club, a bit vague if you ask me.

I think that's the point :roll:

He has already commented on how quick the forum generally is at identifying potential targets, so if they are as good as he says they are and that he has used his contacts to source them with a potential loan move surely he is being vague to avoid alerting any bigger clubs that could take them from under our noses???

[Watty]

Agree with your summing up gc.

If we could find a good Polish midfielder we could probably double our crowd as there are a now few Poles in Perthshire.
Thats a good point, the county(like many in Scotland)has an influx of them, I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of poles sit near to me in the East Stand, at the Ormond End.

[TheBigCheese]

I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of poles sit near to me in the East Stand, at the Ormond End.

What is the collective noun for a bunch of poles? A tent?

[jakubwuls]

The Polish lads play for FC Legia Warsaw. The midfielder last year was called the most promising player of the Polish League. They're quite good. FC Legia want to send them on loan.

I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of poles sit near to me in the East Stand, at the Ormond End.

What is the collective noun for a bunch of poles? A tent?[/quote]

If you keep saying that I think that they will stop visiting the McDiarmid Park

[True Saintee]

The Polish lads play for FC Legia Warsaw. The midfielder last year was called the most promising player of the Polish League. They're quite good. FC Legia want to send them on loan.



And you know because.....?

[jakubwuls]

The Polish lads play for FC Legia Warsaw. The midfielder last year was called the most promising player of the Polish League. They're quite good. FC Legia want to send them on loan.



And you know because.....?

I'm a Pole studying in the UK and running an unofficial Legia's website http://www.legia.com.pl/ (unfortunately without English version)

[True Saintee]

The Polish lads play for FC Legia Warsaw. The midfielder last year was called the most promising player of the Polish League. They're quite good. FC Legia want to send them on loan.



And you know because.....?

I'm a Pole studying in the UK and running an unofficial Legia's website http://www.legia.com.pl/ (unfortunately without English version)

Ok

So do you no names or anything?

[jakubwuls]

The Polish lads play for FC Legia Warsaw. The midfielder last year was called the most promising player of the Polish League. They're quite good. FC Legia want to send them on loan.



And you know because.....?

I'm a Pole studying in the UK and running an unofficial Legia's website http://www.legia.com.pl/ (unfortunately without English version)

Ok

So do you no names or anything?

Midfielder - Marcin Smoliński

Forward - Dariusz Zjawiński

[blueheaven]

I'm a Pole studying in the UK and running an unofficial Legia's website http://www.legia.com.pl/ (unfortunately without English version)

Nice site... just saw the story on there about it, though obviously I couldn't understand it! I notice though that Legia's manager is the ex-Celtic player Dariusz Wdowczyk, so I take it that's who Coyle's top secret contact is.

[Broon]

Midfielder - Marcin Smoliński
Forward - Dariusz Zjawiński

Well, if thats the correct players it seems they are pretty good. Zjawinski was playing for Poland Under 19's in March (and scored) and Smolinski was awarded 'Discovery of the year' in Polands soccer oscars.

Heres the link Clicky (http://www.itiholdings.com/_fl/pressroom.htm)

Its half way down at this date: 06.03.2005

[Indicator]

Well I came here from the Ian Harty thread that was locked expecting to be talking about Harty but.... ah well!!

Anyway we shud tell him to get stuffed, he's snubbed us on a number of occasions as I remember. Anyway he seems like a bit of a loose cannon.

As for the two Poles. They might be better than we've got. They might even help us win the 1st but... when they are forced to return to Legia where would we be then?? :?

[chopper]

As for the two Poles. They might be better than we've got. They might even help us win the 1st but... when they are forced to return to Legia where would we be then?? :?

The SPL :D

The Polish players might be better than we have so we should sign them, even if its only on loan. We are not in a position to buy in SPL class players on SPL type wages unless we are there - or is that just me again???

[dunblanemike]

welcome to the forum jakubwuls and thank you for the information. Can I take it you are a saints fan? And if saints do sign these two will you bring along to their first saints game the hundreds of poles that are living in this area.... please?! :***: 8)

[blueheaven]

Well I came here from the Ian Harty thread that was locked expecting to be talking about Harty but.... ah well!!

If you look at the top of page 5, you'll see that Harty was being discussed on this thread - it's just that the conversation's moved on a bit since then.

[Scobby_SJFC]

Good luck with the studing jakubwuls ! :D

[True Saintee]

http://english.legia.net/team.php

http://www.legianet.com/bl_pilkarz.php?id=479

[True Saintee]

http://www.stjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitem~NewsID~1539.asp

[Kyle]

Sound good. Gonna trust Coyle on this - see what he thinks.

And with Hannah wanting a shot at management, that might clear some of the wages. We can but hope :D

[Saintkev]

That would make three Poles, what with these two and James, the bean-pole! :?

[Dev]

I notice Moussa Ouattara is now at Legia as well. He'd have been a good signing!

Remind me, who was he? I usually remember trialists and suchlike pretty well but I don't recall this one.

I'm 37.

[Hazel1884]

I notice Moussa Ouattara is now at Legia as well. He'd have been a good signing!

Remind me, who was he? I usually remember trialists and suchlike pretty well but I don't recall this one.

I'm 37.

ex Raith boy fae the Anelka Era???

[blueheaven]

I notice Moussa Ouattara is now at Legia as well. He'd have been a good signing!

Yeah, I saw his name on the Legia site and knew I recognised it but couldn't remember where from until you pointed it out!

Is he the one that quite a few of us on here wanted Saints to go for? Was he a right-winger? He always really impressed me - and if he's now signed for one of the biggest clubs in Poland (who are top of the league there?) he obviously must be pretty good. I would have loved to see Saints going for him.

The big Belgian left-back they had was a class-act as well, I remember championing him on the old forum - didn't he end up running off to join another club without telling them or something along those lines?

[Watty]

Still reckon Alan Jenkins from the Raer would be a solid signing and possibly John Rankin from County, always seems to be on the scoresheet from midfield.

[Watty]

Still reckon Alan Jenkins from the Raer would be a solid signing and possibly John Rankin from County, always seems to be on the scoresheet from midfield.
Rankin is way out of our league I feel. Would love him here but can't see it happening. Don Cowie from County is a brilliant player too.

If John Henry is fit though it makes such a difference for us.

You really reckon Rankin is out of our league?? Have'nt heard of any interest in him from SPL or the likes, and County are on deaths doors financially.

[chopper]

I agree with Watty's two - especially Jenkins as he could be the young Sheridan (with a creative edge as well!) that we need for next season.

Don't think Rankin is out of our league and would rather spend money on him than spend it on Ian Harty.

[MUZZ]

hibs are looking to loan out a few fringe players. maybe worth a look?

[chopper]

I'd rather spend money paying you to play for Saints, Chopper, than pay for Harty.

I'd rather you did that as well but somehow, I don't think many others would :***:

[MUZZ]

i hear john o'neil is looking to leave falkirk. would he be worth a shout? i've always rated him

[True Saintee]

i hear john o'neil is looking to leave falkirk. would he be worth a shout? i've always rated him

That would make our probable centre midfield partership about 105?

[chopper]

i hear john o'neil is looking to leave falkirk. would he be worth a shout? i've always rated him
Queen of the South are rumoured to be interested there. Past it for my money and would rather have Janczyk, Sheerin and Thierry as central cover.

[MUZZ]

how old is he anyway?

[chopper]

how old is he anyway?

He is 33, 34 in July and is currently on the coaching staff at Falkirk as well.

[chopper]

Are Queens actually interested or is that just their fans putting his name forward though?

I'd welcome Del back to McD with open arms. He is still a fantastic player.

The local press doon The Doon have linked McCall with many a former player of his - O'Neil would also fit the Queens idea of having full-time coaching staff to work with their Skillseekers and first team players that are moving into full-time status over the next couple of years.

[templeofsaints]

Wouldn't have Del back - we're meant to be building for the future and not filling the team with Vata-esque stopgaps. Jenkins could be a decent signing though.

[Broon]

Wouldn't have Del back - we're meant to be building for the future and not filling the team with Vata-esque stopgaps. Jenkins could be a decent signing though.

I agree. As much as Del would still be a decent player we are meant to be moving forward. I would rather we started tapping rangers about the possibility of getting Charlie Adam on loan or something similar.

[blueheaven]

I don't see anything special in Jenkins and can't really see why anyone would be interested in bringing him here. He's been with Stranraer for years now without ever moving up (wouldn't the chance have come his way by now if he had anything special?), and he's never looked like a massive stand-out when I've seen him. There's no way he's any better than the players already on our books. I think he would just be a signing for signing's sake, as indeed the vast majority of First Division players probably would be.

[Ptosio]

Links to goals of Smolinski (Left/Central Mid):
http://rapidshare.de/files/8774752/2004-11-05__Legia_Warszawa_-_Polonia_Warszawa_4-1__M.Smolinski.avi.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/8808005/Legia-Austria_1-2_Smolinski.avi.html

First is from Polish League, second from UEFA Cup. Smolinski is a very good player, bu i've heard he doesn't want to play in Scotish league becouse it is "brutal" and "strengh, non technical football". Zjawinski (who is much worse player I think) should play good in this league, he said.

[chopper]

Could it be he has ended his interest in the striker as it has given Dobbie, Milne et al a kick up the jacksy???

[Chansey]

Hopefully, my personal opinion is that i would rather have the likes of dobbie on form, rather than bring in a unknown striker who will only be here for a matter of months, during the few months the guy would be here, a certain number of weeks would also be taken up by settling in to the area and style of football.

So i really hope the likes of Dobbie have taken notice, and start banging in the goals. Also i think when Dobbie eventually grabs a goal, his confidence will be lifted and will go on a wee scoring run, i'm noticing that alot at present......hopefully the same will go for SD.

[Broon]

I find it hard to criticise Dobbie. I don't know what people expect him to do with 15 minutes on the pitch. Especially when we generally have given up playing by the time he comes on!

In all our games I have seen us this season we stop playing towards the end (apart from Stranraer). This is generally when Dobbie gets on - with no service.

[Chansey]

I find it hard to criticise Dobbie. I don't know what people expect him to do with 15 minutes on the pitch. Especially when we generally have given up playing by the time he comes on!

In all our games I have seen us this season we stop playing towards the end (apart from Stranraer). This is generally when Dobbie gets on - with no service.

I agree with this, although this has all stemmed from a dip of form, i'm not putting all the player, i blame OC for not not giving him the time on the pitch for him to influence the game, i.e. score a goal. I feel when he does this his cofidence will improve and he will be back to his old self again, a very strong part of this team. I do agree he needs time on the pitch for this to happen however, which OC doesn't seem prepared to give him!

[Hazel1884]

I find it hard to criticise Dobbie. I don't know what people expect him to do with 15 minutes on the pitch. Especially when we generally have given up playing by the time he comes on!

In all our games I have seen us this season we stop playing towards the end (apart from Stranraer). This is generally when Dobbie gets on - with no service.

I agree with this, although this has all stemmed from a dip of form, i'm not putting all the player, i blame OC for not not giving him the time on the pitch for him to influence the game, i.e. score a goal. I feel when he does this his cofidence will improve and he will be back to his old self again, a very strong part of this team. I do agree he needs time on the pitch for this to happen however, which OC doesn't seem prepared to give him!

But if there was the reserve league...... :!:

[Mr Spoons]

We need a right back and a creative midfielder.

Anderson may come onto a game at right back; Mensing, I'm afraid to say, has the touch of an elephant.

Sheridan is great in the terrier- ball winning mould, but we need a playmaker in the middle of the park.

I've faith in Cuthbert, Stannic, Rustybits, Milne and Scotland.

[Victor]

I find it hard to criticise Dobbie. I don't know what people expect him to do with 15 minutes on the pitch. Especially when we generally have given up playing by the time he comes on!

In all our games I have seen us this season we stop playing towards the end (apart from Stranraer). This is generally when Dobbie gets on - with no service.
When some of us used this theory about Martin Fotheringham, we were told in no uncertain manner by other forum members that he wouldnt have been showing up well enough in previous first team games, reserve/bounce games or training to justify a starting place or longer run.

Dont see why the theory should be any different for Dobbie.

[chopper]

Dont see why the theory should be any different for Dobbie.

Because Dobbie actually wants to do something with his ability and there is no reserve league for him to force his way into the manager's plans. Fotheringham was ever-present in the reserves and failed to show anything like what he can, or arguably is at the moment, produce.

[Broon]

When some of us used this theory about Martin Fotheringham, we were told in no uncertain manner by other forum members that he wouldnt have been showing up well enough in previous first team games,

The guy was banging them in first few games of the season.

I think he shows some neat touches and has an eye for a through ball. He faces the same criticism that Scotland does - lazy etc etc etc. The thing is, they are not that type of player. Its nice to see a player with a bit of guile - unfortunately in the lower leagues in Scotland (which like it or not we are part of) the fans seem to think its more important that your fit, hard and fast than skillful!