Ross County Updates

[Scobby_SJFC]

Where will it be discussed ?

[pezza70]

this thread is as good as it gets :D

im sure the usual suspects will be here in this thread soon

[pezza70]

Cuthbert, Anderson, Rutkiewicz, James, Stevenson, Stanic, Henry, Sheridan, Sheerin, Milne, Scotland

Dobbie, Doris, Dyer, Janczyk, Paston

[pezza70]

County 1 up after 6 mins - Higgins :(

[saintbear]

only live 2 mins from mcd,but not been very well over xmas.this is murder-first home game missed in ages :cry: cmon saints

[pezza70]

Dobbie for Stevenson 35th min

[Scobby_SJFC]

bloody hell shocking start !

[Scobby_SJFC]

half time 0-1

[pezza70]

Dundee 2 up also :(

[Scobby_SJFC]

shouldnt be bothered by dundee, we simply must win !

[pezza70]

Janczyk for Sheerin 54th min

[pezza70]

Scotland on the 60th

'Mon the saintees

[pezza70]

Full time scores:

Brechin 3 - Clyde 1

Dundee 2 - Airdrie 3

Q of S 0 - St Midden 0

Saintees 1 - Ross County 1

[Kyle]

Awful first half... much much better second half... will go into more detail later... starving just now


3 each between Stranraer and Hamilton :shock:

[Scobby_SJFC]

how many time do ross county take points off us !

[Indicator]

Can't say I'm really surprised by this. We've only been really impressive in two games this season. Will wait to hear the match reports but we'll not be catching the leaders if we can't capitalise on their setbacks. Phishhh.

[HeronAddict]

Two words for the first half performance - totally rank! Certainly the worst 45 mins with Coyle in charge, and the eleven on the park did a pretty job of imitating a Connolly team. We were better in the second half without playing any wonderful flowing football, and a stunning finish by Scotland for his goal - where would we be now without him? Still don't know how we didn't score from James' two headers at the end, but given our first half performance a draw was probably a fair result. Just a shame we couldn't get a winner at the end given the way the other results went, but I think today also shows that no team is going to run away with the division this year.

I know its the season of goodwill, and I don't like singling out individual players, but Steven Anderson today - my god he was hopeless! As one of the guys sitting behind me said, he wouldn't have got into a pub team on that performance. He just has no idea how to play at right back - he continually failed to provide an option on the overlap by staying back when there was no need to, and ignored the easy pass to Stevenson a number of times in favour of going backwards or to Sheridan who was often surrounded quickly by 2 or 3 County players. He's decent cover at centre-half, but should not play at right-back again after that, and I think we need to make that position a priority in January. Also, why was Stevenson subbed in the first half? If he was injured I didn't see it, and if it was tactical surely Anderson should have gone off instead?

[chopper]

Two words for the first half performance - totally rank! Certainly the worst 45 mins with Coyle in charge, and the eleven on the park did a pretty job of imitating a Connolly team. We were better in the second half without playing any wonderful flowing football, and a stunning finish by Scotland for his goal - where would we be now without him? Still don't know how we didn't score from James' two headers at the end, but given our first half performance a draw was probably a fair result. Just a shame we couldn't get a winner at the end given the way the other results went, but I think today also shows that no team is going to run away with the division this year.

I know its the season of goodwill, and I don't like singling out individual players, but Steven Anderson today - my god he was hopeless! As one of the guys sitting behind me said, he wouldn't have got into a pub team on that performance. He just has no idea how to play at right back - he continually failed to provide an option on the overlap by staying back when there was no need to, and ignored the easy pass to Stevenson a number of times in favour of going backwards or to Sheridan who was often surrounded quickly by 2 or 3 County players. He's decent cover at centre-half, but should not play at right-back again after that, and I think we need to make that position a priority in January. Also, why was Stevenson subbed in the first half? If he was injured I didn't see it, and if it was tactical surely Anderson should have gone off instead?

Stevenson was feeling his lower back about half an hour in and the sub followed from there - as with everything else I pretty much agree, although a lot of the time Ando was looking for Stevo he wasn't there and vice versa.

On an aside - NO MINUTE'S SILENCE FOR DREW RUTHERFORD!!! This is an absolute joke and the club should be ashamed of themselves for not allowing the fans to honour a legend of the club in the way he should have been remembered. FFS, we had a minutes silence for George "Closing Time" Best yet nothing to even mark the passing of the club's record appearance holder.

Not happy!

[blueheaven]

Not the first time we've struggled against County, and probably won't be the last. We gifted them their opener with some horrendous defending - after that, they didn't trouble us much, but our players weren't doing any better themselves. I think when Scotland finally equalised it may well have been our first proper effort of the game. After the equaliser - and the news filtering through that other results were going our way - things picked up a bit and it was quite an exciting last 20 minutes or so.

The shape of our team was very poor - our lack of wide players again caused us major problems. Anderson had a weak game, but James and Rusty both looked good for most of the match, and Sheridan was the only bright spot in an under-performing midfield. We're really going to miss him over the next three games. Henry was very poor and personally I'm yet to be impressed by him. I'd rather see Scotland dropped back into his position on a more permanent basis, because he makes much more impact, would create a lot more, and we have plenty of other strikers who can partner Milne. Doris again made a big difference after coming on, and hopefully he'll continue to at least make the bench over the coming weeks.

I was very disappointed that there was no minute's silence/applause for Drew Rutherford. Can anyone shed any light on why this was?

[Steve Maskrey]

Terrible game. We were quite fortunate that Ross County were just as bad as us if not worse :!:

Anderson was hopeless and seemed to be doing a very impersonation of Mark Reilly in that he rarely passed the ball forward. John Henry was completely anonymous in midfield and appeared to be lucky that OC decided to bring off Sheerin instead of him. Dobbie didn't really add much to the game when he came on and his only main contribution seemed to be directing a goalward James header over the bar :roll:

[dave mc]

Draws are killing us,but we didn't deserve anything more.For 60 minutes we were the poorer side,with their midfield so much more mobile and inventive.Ando was piss poor,Henry, well i can now understand why a fly will injure him,he's too light weight,Sheerin has disappeared over the last few games.Quality replacements in the window for Henry and Sheerin,are required,players with pace and some bite,and a bit of vision.Can't beleive we let Baxter and Cowan go,they're both better than our present options at right back.

[slf]

there were loads of people who missed the first half :***: :***: due to the 2.00 kick off thinking it was 3.00!!!they were the lucky ones,2nd half was a bit better. :?

[fifefan]

Anderson was terrible. It took him half an hour with the ball at his feet to decide who he was going to pass to and he always made the wrong choice either by passing to a player with 2 or 3 County players around him or to actually pass to a County player. The goal resulted from his poor defending.

Why did we get rid of Baxter and keep this waste of space.

[SG]

Why did we get rid of Baxter and keep this waste of space.

Great question !!

Anderson is NOT a better player than baxter , surely we should have put baxter out on loan to cowdenbeath so we could bring him back to this "PROBLEM POSITION " :? i know this old chestnut of a question pops up alot, but surely it proves that the manager was not right to let beaky go , if we are still having problems in this position !! all in my humble opinion of course !! the ando supporters will be on soon to tell me otherwise no doubt !! :wink:

[HeronAddict]

Baxter's a decent player, but the OC obviously didn't think that he was good enough for this level. The fact that he is after all playing for Cowdenbeath, rather than at another first division club, suggests that he was right. Baxter had plenty of time and opportunities to establish himself in the side on a regular basis, but he was never able to do so.

Personally I always felt his lack of height was a problem for him, and while he always tried hard, his final ball was often very poor, and defensively he wasn't, from what I can remember, the best. That's not to say Anderson's a better player in that position - he probably isn't - but he can also cover at centre-half, which Baxter couldn't, which might explain why he was kept on instead.

IMO we've never actually replaced probably el Starko's best signing - John Robertson. How many different right-backs have we had since he left? I though he was excellent in that position, and was disappointed when we didn't go back in for him when he went to Hamilton.

[Cagey]

First half was absolute garbage. Anderson is taking a bit of stick & rightly so but no one got pass marks in first half. Ruti had a poor first half but was superb in second. god help us without Sheridan.
Second half was better & last 20 mins was very exciting but if we are going to catch Midden we have to win at home.

Dobbie,Sheerin &Henry have to be shipped out along with Hannah. We have to bring in a a few youngsters & at least 3 new signings during the window.

Doris did more in the time he was on than Dobbie has done the entire season.

[blueheaven]

Baxter had his chance. He never re-captured the form he had during his first season and there was also, allegedly, a clash of personalities with one of the coaching staff. Ando was one of our better performers last season and in August, I had no doubt Owen had made the right decision. The problem is, Ando is a markedly better centre-half than right-back. His early appearances under Owen were at centre-half but since Ruti won favour again, he's obviously been restricted in getting a game there. Mensing is improving and I'd suggest Ando was probably good enough to provide cover at right-back/centre-half but he isn't good enough to start every week. In his defence though, he only turned 20 last week so is still learning. In fact, is he not younger than Baxter?

Totally agree. Anderson was poor today, but in no way deserves some of the stick he's been getting. The guy's still young, he's still learning - like it or not, that means he will have bad games and not be the most consistent player on the planet. At the end of last season I'd probably have said he turned out to be Connolly's best signing. This season, he hasn't managed to recapture that form, but he's been in an out of the team a lot more often and that's bound to make his displays a wee bit more erratic. Sure, criticise him folks, but be realistic. And remember, most of us would accept that right-back isn't even really his position.

As for Baxter, nobody can say he wasn't given games to prove himself. He looked alright when he was on form, but does anyone seriously think we'd be a significantly better team if he was still here? Would we have any more points just because we'd kept Mark Baxter? I doubt it.

Doris did more in the time he was on than Dobbie has done the entire season.

That's not true - Dobbie had a cracking start to the season, formed a good early partnership with Milne and scored some good goals. He's off form now, but we've seen what he's capable of. Why do people always seem to think the solution is punting people and making yet more changes to personnel, instead of getting to the bottom of why a guy who started out so well has lost his form so dramatically? Sure, we can get rid of Dobbie and bring in someone else - but what happens when the replacement loses form? Do we give him the boot too?

I personally think it's in Saints' interests to get Dobbie back to fitness, back to form, and playing like he was at the end of last season and beginning of this one, because I can't see us being able to replace him with someone who can do better than that.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

Well the last 2 performances against County have been well sort of the performace we saw from this team in the first game at home against county. Indeed most of the performances since have fallen way below that level and that is very very disapointing

[templeofsaints]

Well the last 2 performances against County have been well sort of the performace we saw from this team in the first game at home against county. Indeed most of the performances since have fallen way below that level and that is very very disapointing

I agree and it's a bit of a worry. I don't think we deserved to lose yesterday but we didn't deserve anything more than a point and at home given the recent results the players should have been pushing for all 3. We looked slower than County and the passing / kick-and-rush tactics were abysmal.

I see Owen has laid into the players about the performance today but to be honest unless he's willing to start dropping the non-performers (Henry / Sheerin for example), the lack of hunger and fight we saw yesterday will just get worse.

[Steve Maskrey]

One of our biggest problems yesterday, certainly in the first half, was we never played the ball wide much. Anderson kept playing the ball to Sheridan even though he had 3 players round him :roll: , and Henry insisted on trying to play the difficult ball through the middle rather than play it wide to the often unmarked Sheerin

[Ronaldo]

Before yesterday's game I thought St.Mirren would beat QOS and our result could go anyway and possibly a defeat.
Today we are still the same difference behind St.Mirren after a day when they should have gained points. If they are drawing games now they are definitely going to drop points in January.
Although we are not currently on form we know we can get better and so I'm still optimistic.

[Ronaldo]

We blew it big time yesterday. St Mirren, after they beat Ross County, went seven points clear. They haven't scored in the three games since then but are still seven clear.
Radford surely it's the other way round. Last week we knew St.Mirren had two games against the bottom sides coming up - QOS and Brechin and we have Ross Co. and Airdrie. I'm sure their supporters feel they have blown it by not being able to extend their lead even though we're not on form currently.

[Ronaldo]

We've only lost once at home this season but at the same time, we've won less than half of our home games.
That's true but our home record has significantly improved over past seasons. One defeat in eleven's good but you're right if we had converted draws into wins then we'd be ahead of St.Mirren.

[Cagey]

I see Owen has laid into the players about the performance today but to be honest unless he's willing to start dropping the non-performers (Henry / Sheerin for example), the lack of hunger and fight we saw yesterday will just get worse.
To be fair, it's only the last two weeks they've let the side down. I know we had an easier run of games up to the Love Street match but they were playing well and I don't think it would've been fair to drop them on the basis of one performance against the best side in the league. Yesterday they didn't help their cases for inclusion against Airdrie though.

Why do people always seem to think the solution is punting people and making yet more changes to personnel, instead of getting to the bottom of why a guy who started out so well has lost his form so dramatically?
Totally agree. Not only is it totally unrealistic most of the time but it's not going to make the side any better. Teams get better by playing together over a period of time, not by chopping and changing them every six months. People always say we have the best squad/team/group of players in the league so why are we seven points behind an inferior group? Could it be because they've been playing as a unit for a couple of years now?

We blew it big time yesterday. St Mirren, after they beat Ross County, went seven points clear. They haven't scored in the three games since then but are still seven clear.

Radford & BH. This team has been together for half a season & have shown they are jst not up to it. Coyle has been quite patiant with them & I agree that we should not chop & change every week but after half a season Sheerin ,Henry(missed a few with injury)Dobbie(no proffesionall footballer should have an arse like that)have shown that they just don`t have what it takes.

[blueheaven]

Radford & BH. This team has been together for half a season & have shown they are jst not up to it. Coyle has been quite patiant with them & I agree that we should not chop & change every week but after half a season Sheerin ,Henry(missed a few with injury)Dobbie(no proffesionall footballer should have an arse like that)have shown that they just don`t have what it takes.

I think you're completely wrong. Yes, we could make wholesale changes and start building a new team yet again, but who exactly do you think is going to come here that's so much better than the players we have at the moment? Do you really think there's a whole team's worth of incredible players floating around who would be willing/able to sign for Saints and do better than what we have?

Man for man, our players are as good as, if not better, than their equivalents at any other club in the league. If you think we can attract better, I think you're looking for a standard which (unfortunately) just isn't obtainable at this level. Sure, the squad needs a bit of tweaking over the transfer window, but by and large I think our players do have what it takes. As Radford says, St Mirren have the edge on us at the moment because their players have been together longer, and they also have a manager who has that little bit more experience in working with them. I agree that Coyle has been patient with his team, but it's Coyle himself who is learning his trade and needs for people to be patient with him. We've all seen this team play very well on their day, so they are capable of producing the goods. All they really lack is consistency, and that's obviously something that's going to take time to achieve. To scrap all of this season's work at this stage and yet again attempt to start over would be madness of the highest order.

[Tranmere Saintee]

Couldn't agree more BH - the time for constant wholesale changes is past. I feel that we are possibly just 1 or 2 signings away from achieving a team capable of pushing St Midden all the way.

Problem is, I am not sure of who or which positions need changing (other than bringing in Marc Corcoran :wink: ). All our current squad are more than good enough on their day, but the gelling factor is still missing on occassions.

Having pondered it I am beginning to think that missing Sheridan might not be such a bad thing after all (and not for the same reasons as Wee John!!). On Monday, virtually every ball out of defence that wasn't given the proverbial hoof up the park was played to Darren whatever difficult position he was in. If he is not there will other players realise that they can show a bit of vision and skill themselves and actually pass the ball forward to a player wearing the same colour of shirt? I certainly hope so.

[templeofsaints]

Having pondered it I am beginning to think that missing Sheridan might not be such a bad thing after all (and not for the same reasons as Wee John!!). On Monday, virtually every ball out of defence that wasn't given the proverbial hoof up the park was played to Darren whatever difficult position he was in. If he is not there will other players realise that they can show a bit of vision and skill themselves and actually pass the ball forward to a player wearing the same colour of shirt? I certainly hope so.

Nah - they'll just hoof every ball up the park. :D

I don't think that we need wholesale changes but the Henry/Sheridan partnership hasn't worked IMHO. We are also failing to use the wide men - Stevenson hardly got a sniff of the ball and the left flank was only really used in the 2nd half when Stanic and Scrabble were linking up. Whether that's down to the manager's tactics or the players I'm not sure.

I'd be tempted to drop Henry and play Scotland in an attacking midfield role with free reign through the middle. Hannah is the only replacement I can think of for Sheridan but I'd also look at starting Scrabble ahead of Sheerin. Hopefully Stevenson will be fit for the right wing because our options there are fairly limited.

[Cagey]

Who`s talking about wholesale changes. I am saying dump the non performers to make way for 3 or 4 new guys to spice up the compotitin for places & perhaps get someone in midfield who can pass a ball & get in the box at least once in a game. Apart from Stevo, & Sheerins purple patch,how many goals have we scored from midfield ?.

I know it wont be easy to pick up the kind of players we are looking for but if Coyle doesn`t at least try he will be failing as a Saints manager.

We are supposed to have the strongest squad in the leage (on paper) but we are stuggling to find a replacement for Sheridan with some even talking about playing Hannah who hasn`t played a competative game for months. If Owen was thinking about playing him he would have been in the squad on Monday & brought on when we went 3-0 up.

[mainstand]

Who`s talking about wholesale changes. I am saying dump the non performers to make way for 3 or 4 new guys to spice up the compotitin for places & perhaps get someone in midfield who can pass a ball & get in the box at least once in a game. Apart from Stevo, & Sheerins purple patch,how many goals have we scored from midfield ?.

I know it wont be easy to pick up the kind of players we are looking for but if Coyle doesn`t at least try he will be failing as a Saints manager.

We are supposed to have the strongest squad in the leage (on paper) but we are stuggling to find a replacement for Sheridan with some even talking about playing Hannah who hasn`t played a competative game for months. If Owen was thinking about playing him he would have been in the squad on Monday & brought on when we went 3-0 up.

Cagey go and name the players you would like to see Coyle bringi9ng in. this will save us getting he old he's not up to Saints standard everytime a player is mentioned.

[Cagey]

Not had my scouts out recently but I`ll give it some thought & come up with some names before the window but Rankin of Ross & McLaren of Airdrie will do me for starters along with a couple of loan Poles who seem to have shown up quite well when on trial.

[Ronaldo]

Let's look at it this way (slightly different).

St.Mirren coming into the game against Saints are upbeat by the facts that if they beat Saints a further three point gap opens up (10 points) and then they have the luxury of two games against QOS and Brechin to stretch it even further (possibly to 14 points if we draw both tough games and they surely win both easy games). That would be double the points difference than before the St.Mirren game and I must admit that was the way I thought it might go too (worst of position).

Now on the positive side they are still only seven points ahead with less goal difference with still Saturday to go against Brechin and we have in-form Airdrie. They then have a difficult month and we have the opportunity of making a significant signing or two and getting back our previous form. If we gain two points a month we will win the league providing nobody comes up on the outside.

[blueheaven]

Who`s talking about wholesale changes. I am saying dump the non performers to make way for 3 or 4 new guys to spice up the compotitin for places & perhaps get someone in midfield who can pass a ball & get in the box at least once in a game. Apart from Stevo, & Sheerins purple patch,how many goals have we scored from midfield ?.

If I've misinterpreted your point, then fair enough. I took it from your comment of "This team has been together for half a season & have shown they are jst not up to it" that you were advocating more than just a few changes. I'm sure Coyle is constantly looking for better players, but there really can't be that many available who fit all the criteria of being a) better than what we have b) within Saints' budget and c) willing to play in the Scottish First Division. The guys you mention in your other post (Rankin and McLaren) might be decent, but they both play for clubs below us in the league so it's not as if we're having some sort of talent/goals drought that isn't affecting anyone else. We can't be doing that badly - look at how inconsistent we've been (or even "not up to it" to use your words), yet still we're second in the league and just 7 points off the top. We can't be all that far away from getting things right, can we?

We are supposed to have the strongest squad in the leage (on paper) but we are stuggling to find a replacement for Sheridan with some even talking about playing Hannah who hasn`t played a competative game for months. If Owen was thinking about playing him he would have been in the squad on Monday & brought on when we went 3-0 up.

Perhaps we are struggling for a replacement for Sheridan, but we've got Jancyzk, Fotheringham, Hannah, McManus and Mensing as potential fillers in that position who didn't start our last match. We've also got the likes of McAnespie and McCann out of the picture through injury. That looks like a pretty strong squad to me - I don't think any of our rivals have those sort of options for when a player gets suspended.