Saints vs. Livingston 31/03/07 [Archive]

Radford 72

28-03-2007, 04:49 PM

Saints team news:

Milne and Rutkiewicz have suffered setbacks in training so will be unavailable.
Simon Mensing starts his three-game suspension.
Kevin James is fine after his head knock on Saturday.
Derek McInnes, Allan McManus, Steven Anderson and Martin Hardie are all suffering from knocks and are unlikely to train until tomorrow but will be given every chance of making the game.

All I know for Livingston is that Steven Tweed is suspended and Paul Shields has joined Ayr United on loan.

Livingston have probably deserved the points they've taken from us this season, albeit in all three games we've contributed to our own downfall with shocking defending and goalkeeping. The defence looks to have firmed up and the attacking players are on form so I'm hopeful of three points.

livi saint

28-03-2007, 04:54 PM

Its a must win! cant slip up now if we are serious about going up!

garydavidson

29-03-2007, 12:16 PM

plenty of injuries to worry about but hopefully this will give some of the other guys a chance to get in there and show their worth.

got to win this not only because we need three points but because livi have not lost to us all season. having quite a few mates from livi I am not allowed to forget this fact.

Any form of win would be good at this point in the season

templeofsaints

29-03-2007, 12:50 PM

According to the Official Site, Morais and McLaren have injuries, Jason has a virus and Andy Jackson a suspected broken thumb.

HertsSaintee

29-03-2007, 01:01 PM

Haven't heard much about Savo apart from the fact he's "suffered a setback" again. What's the official line on how much longer he's likely to be still out? Was he brought back too soon?

Herts

HertsSaintee

30-03-2007, 04:27 PM

A bit concerning all this "major injury worries" thing on the Official Site... At one count it was 8 or 9 starters rated doubtful. If it's as bad as is being made out, surely the club must consider getting this game postponed as it's such a crucial game for us. Others clubs have successfully done this this season, and the SFL seem only too happy to oblige since the Forfar fiasco.

Or perhaps there are really no injury worries, and it's just a cunning ploy to lull Meadowbank into a false sense of security...

Herts

Steve Maskrey

30-03-2007, 04:35 PM

Its fair to say that the injury problems are correct but that doesn't mean all these players will be unavailable for the game. It is credit to the individuals concerned that many of these players have played, and will continue to play, despite struggling with injury. Most of these players were carrying injuries prior to Sunday and indeed Mad Mental Martin was due to come off before James suffered his head knock. In recent weeks, James, Scotland, McManus, McInnes, Hardie and Peaso have been struggling with injury but have carried on regardless.

These are true professionals who are prepared to play through the pain barrier for their manager and the club whereas Thistle have a team full of Big Jessies :-)

Saintkev

30-03-2007, 04:37 PM

From the sounds of things they are only really worried about McManus...

Our two wingers were back to light training yesterday...

I'm confident enough to say, win this and our next game and we'll win the league!

Jimbo

30-03-2007, 04:48 PM

off topic...... - just a reminder for people to post for the prediction league. the thread was (very) late in being put up, make sure you get your predictions in there. thanks

.....back to the topic

slf

30-03-2007, 05:11 PM

i never liked meadowbank get it right up um run by another another joker

Scobby_SJFC

30-03-2007, 05:30 PM

Nothing short of a must win!

not had the best results gainst them this season, but theres a 1st first for everything!
I think when we've played them the have brough dropped points on ourself, so if we play anywhere near where we can it should be 3 points

C'mon the Saints
C'mon the Jags

saintbear

30-03-2007, 08:13 PM

Will Always Be Meadowbank......hate Them,,

MUZZ

30-03-2007, 08:28 PM

another fake team. they aint got no soul

Ronaldo

30-03-2007, 08:31 PM

Never forgiven them for raiding our SPL side and stealing quality players when they could'nae afford it. :evil:

Nairn Saint

30-03-2007, 09:14 PM

Will Always Be Meadowbank......hate Them,,

Ferranti Thistle for ever!

Saints will win with a clean sheet. Sherrin man of the match despite a well taken hat-trick from McInnes (the last bit is maybe a tad fanciful).

Steve Maskrey

31-03-2007, 12:58 PM

Partick have brought in Terry Butcher as a coach until the end of the season so hopefully he'll inspire them to win today.

C'mon the Saints

pezza70

31-03-2007, 03:12 PM

summer time has ended down here which makes this game a midnight kick off instead of 2am

mon the saintees 2 nil is my prediction to the boys in blue

SingaporeSaint

31-03-2007, 03:17 PM

Seems a pretty much full strength starting line up considering the injury list in the build up to the game.

SingaporeSaint

31-03-2007, 03:39 PM

summer time has ended down here which makes this game a midnight kick off instead of 2am

mon the saintees 2 nil is my prediction to the boys in blue

Not so bad for ne, on a business trip to Dubai so already watched Liv/Arsenal and now this and it isnae even 7 pm yet

Mr_Plow

31-03-2007, 03:39 PM

1-0 us - Scotland!!

SingaporeSaint

31-03-2007, 03:39 PM

Scotland ! Brilliant 1-0

minute5072

31-03-2007, 03:40 PM

1 nil, Jason!

Mr_Plow

31-03-2007, 03:42 PM

The bad news is Gretna have scored though, 1-0 against Partick.

^sainteebrian^

31-03-2007, 03:57 PM

yep 3 mins after

SingaporeSaint

31-03-2007, 04:32 PM

Lilley on for Peaso

SingaporeSaint

31-03-2007, 04:33 PM

2-0 Gretna

garydavidson

31-03-2007, 04:33 PM

1-1 the guy was only on the pitch 2 minutes as well.

SingaporeSaint

31-03-2007, 04:34 PM

good substition for them, he scored after being on the field for two minutes

Calinho

31-03-2007, 04:41 PM

Cuthbert sent off

SingaporeSaint

31-03-2007, 04:41 PM

Kevin Cuthbert sent off, turning in to a farce

garydavidson

31-03-2007, 04:44 PM

ah well there is always next season 1-2 livi

^sainteebrian^

31-03-2007, 04:44 PM

it says on a live score site

kevin cuthbert (sent off) deliberate handball what the hell

SingaporeSaint

31-03-2007, 04:45 PM

it says on a live score site

kevin cuthbert (sent off) deliberate handball what the hell

who cares now

Moray Blue

31-03-2007, 04:47 PM

Denying a goal scoring opportunity outside the penalty area.

Indicator

31-03-2007, 04:49 PM

What a mess... Only we could so dramatically, finally, and conclusively hand the 1st to Gretna - what a flaming mess. Nothing like taking it to the last day - and this is nothing like taking it to the last day.

Wycombe Saintee

31-03-2007, 04:50 PM

Absolutely pathetic St Johnstone, yet another season passes. I actually dont care about the cups, this was the one that mattered.

garydavidson

31-03-2007, 04:52 PM

hope the cup semi final is a good day out.

pezza70

31-03-2007, 04:54 PM

another false hope of taking it to the wire

another season of div 1 footie it seems

we will start favourite to win it again next season

inex

31-03-2007, 04:56 PM

Was looking good after halftime. Goalkeeper sent off. You dont see that every day.

^sainteebrian^

31-03-2007, 04:57 PM

mathimatically possible

saintees inpossible

Moray Blue

31-03-2007, 04:59 PM

If Gretna win midweek and next Saturday they win the league there and then.

Party spoilers anyone?

pezza70

31-03-2007, 05:03 PM

lets hope we can pull one out of you know where to make the cup final

Rodgers

31-03-2007, 05:12 PM

gutted

slambrother

31-03-2007, 05:23 PM

Totally gutted, thought we played some of the best football we have seen this season in the first half with morais and scotlland linking really well. The linesman was simply moronic and how he could call so many off-sides wrong is beyond me. Crap deflection for the goal and in my eyes a poor decision from the ref about the cuthbert handball( i felt the ball bounced up against him has cost us dearly). Just new that some of our misses like the scotland sitter was going to come back to haunt us. End of season full stop.

Calypso Kid

31-03-2007, 05:45 PM

Terrible performance from the east stand Lino today. Completely hopeless. We had a severe lack of motivation start of second half as well. Easy chances missed and punished for it AGAIN. Who cares, WE'RE ALL GOING TO HAMPDEN...

Broggy Man

31-03-2007, 05:59 PM

by the way who was the complete loon who carried out the pitch invasion. FWIW get a life and enjoy your weekend

poang

31-03-2007, 06:05 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHH BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEURUGH

sorry thats just how i feel after that game.

Its like in the first half we played our home form team. Then in the second we sent out our away form. Honestly, you could see it right after the second half began.

Two shitty, shitty goals to lose, when we should of been at least 3-0 up.

Linesman was utterly appalling. Cuthbert was unlucky, the ball took an awkward bounce as he came for it, no way was it deliberate.
The ref looked like he couldnt wait to send him off, he musta thought "ooooooo ive never sent somebody off for that before, heres my chance"

Anyone know who the wee fat ginger guy who ran on the pitch to console Cuthbert was? Not your usual ned pitch invader, he was wearing a shirt and tie!

Oh and the music played at the end, seriously, were they trying to make us more depressed?

NeilSJFC

31-03-2007, 06:07 PM

Thought we were fantastic first half, then sat back the second and the enviatable happened, but then again that could be the game report for so many games this season.....

Couple of things today, sorry to the guy in front of me when i smacked him in the back of the head at the sending off. From where i was looked like to call it a professional foul was a bit harsh because the play out so wide and close to the touchline.

Also a message to the idiot who was having a go at other saints fans for telling halliwall to hurry up with a goal kick. We're watching the league go down the drain while hes fannying about and you expect us to "encourage" him? he also had a go at another fan for "being bias" when critising the ref (no seriously). Couldnt he just shut up and let other folk enjoy the game, instead of being the "perfect" fan?

Nick

31-03-2007, 06:33 PM

gutted!!

As per normal Saints blow all littly hope of promotion out of the window.

Again it was our second half performace that let us down. This has been the same all season.

Is Coyles have time team talk that shite and non-motivated or are all the old buggers in our team to tired.

Our midfiled was posted missing all second half. I can't really see how Coyle never noticed this and changed it. There was no need it taking Peaso off(unless he waas injured) when it was the midfield that needed sorted/motivated/organised!

I disagreed with taking Morais off for Haliwell. We were drawing in a game which we neededed notihing other than a win, so why not take a defender off and go 3 at the back and for once - Go for it?

Once Morais went off out attack turned to the usual hump the ball upto Scotland job, since Morais wasnt on to use the wings to which he so effectively used in the fisrt half.

And when we went 2-1 down - we stayed with 4 at the abck and what looked 4 in midfield with only Jason up front. FFS, stick james up front and Go for a ****ing win for christ sake.

How long is it going to take Coyle to learn from his mistakes - tactically he has been very poor.

A pissed of Sainteee

Steve Maskrey

31-03-2007, 06:33 PM

Absolutely gutted at the result. Terrific performance in the first half but never got going in the second half. Morais was outstanding in the first half and we created a number of chances but were unlucky not to be 2 or 3 up. Thought Cuthbert's sending off was a bit harsh but a handball so had to go.

I'm guessing that the club will be fined for the wee ginger kid running on the pitch? I'm amazed that not one single steward nabbed him when he was close to the Main Stand.

Nick

31-03-2007, 06:36 PM

wee ginger kid

Christ, Id hate to see a big Ginger kid then!!! ***

Nairn Saint

31-03-2007, 06:44 PM

A very poor day for all connected with Saints as our failling title asperations finaly fizzle out.

We need a serious rebuild for next term starting now. Give the youngsters a go and if they can't cut it, let them move on.

mainstand

31-03-2007, 06:47 PM

We need a serious rebuild for next term starting now. Give the youngsters a go and if they can't cut it, let them move on.

How the hell do you work that one out??

mainstand

31-03-2007, 06:52 PM

gutted!!

I disagreed with taking Morais off for Haliwell. We were drawing in a game which we neededed notihing other than a win, so why not take a defender off and go 3 at the back and for once - Go for it?

Once Morais went off out attack turned to the usual hump the ball upto Scotland job, since Morais wasnt on to use the wings to which he so effectively used in the fisrt half.

And when we went 2-1 down - we stayed with 4 at the abck and what looked 4 in midfield with only Jason up front. FFS, stick james up front and Go for a ****ing win for christ sake.

How long is it going to take Coyle to learn from his mistakes - tactically he has been very poor.

A pissed of Sainteee

I actually thought we went 3 at the back and for the last 5 2. At 1-1 surely you don't sacrifice a defender when you lose a goalie, a midfielder and let your defence push on and help your forwards.

As for the wee ginger that on to the park well done son you probably cost the Club a few hundred pounds and got yourself banned from the ground.What a prat!!

Nairn Saint

31-03-2007, 06:53 PM

How the hell do you work that one out??

Hi Mainstand, I just think that we need to give Jackson, Doris, Dyer etc a chance that they haven't had all season in the remaining league games.

If you look at the ageing mediocrity throughout our side you will appreciate that we won't win anything next term without major surgery being carried out.

mainstand

31-03-2007, 06:56 PM

Hi Mainstand, I just think that we need to give Jackson, Doris, Dyer etc a chance that they haven't had all season in the remaining league games.

If you look at the ageing mediocrity throughout our side you will appreciate that we won't win anything next term without major surgery being carried out.

nairn I agree that we should gie them a chance as soon as it is mathematiclly impossible and anyone it will give Jason etc a rest before the final.

I disagree with the major surgery. Teh spine of teh team is there and is not taht ancient god look at the age of some of the boys in teh premiership or SPL.

Indicator

31-03-2007, 06:57 PM

Don't agree that we need "major surgery" but we do obviously need to tweak a few areas. You surely don't want to start again from scratch when this has been the most successful season we have had since we came down from the SPL.

SaintSam1884

31-03-2007, 07:13 PM

To be fair to the guy who ran onto the park, he was just trying to show some support for Kevin Cuthbert, albeit in a slightly controversial way. Some people probably just don't know that clubs get fined for that sort of thing. The Stewards and Police seemed really bothered, right enough!

StDuncM

31-03-2007, 07:35 PM

The fact that we were in with a shout at all is some achievement considering the distance Gretna have been ahead for most of the season. They faltered for a couple of matches and many here thought it was ours for the taking and sadly it has turned out a false hope. We have had some season, beating SPL sides and running Hibs close and frankly the damage was done long ago and with our away form being so miserable. We play a faltering Celtic side soon and it would be fantastic if we put up another credible performance against the 'best'.

We will be at Hampden to shout for our boy, so everyone get together and look forward to the semi and to promotion next season.

Come on Saints!

Cagey

31-03-2007, 07:38 PM

We have thrown away another 3 points & have let a team that are miles worse than us take at least 8 points off us this season.
We dominated the first half but too many guys wanted to take a rest in the second half.
I thought Kevin was going to see red as soon as the ball hit his hand & think most refs would have given a red.
Game changed when Coyle took Peaso off & unless he was injured it was the wrong sub` for me . Jason had one of these days where he took the wrong option too many times ,passing to no-one when he should have tried a shot & taking one touch too many.
Lets give the old guys a rest next week & give Jackson Doris & Dyer a chance to show what they can do in the remaining league games even if Gretna get beat in midweek. There is no way back now.

templeofsaints

31-03-2007, 08:11 PM

Yet again we just failed to show up after the break. I was feeling really optimistic at half-time despite the result from Raydale. We'd played some of the best passing football in the 1st half with Morais outstanding.

But after the break all we did was sit back and hoof the ball up the park - the defence was far too deep and the midfield lost all it's shape. Nobody was willing to hold onto the ball and the front pair had run out of pace and ideas. The first goal was a soft one (not just cos of the way it spun out of Cuthbert's hands) but the defence let them get too much room to attack - something that was repeated for the 2nd.

As for the handball I th.ought at worst it was a booking - looked like ball to hand to me and certainly wasn't a goalscoring opportunity. Even more annoying was the time it took Halliwell to take a goal kick just after he came on - it seemed to sum up the attitude of too many of the players today. In the end they didn't have the hunger or desire to press for the 90 minutes and that is something OC has to sort out for next season.

As for next week, assuming the Village People wrap up the title this Tuesday against Airdrie, I'm not sure I can be bothered making the trip through to Gretna to get it rubbed in our faces. At least if OC plays the kids, we might see some sign of players wanting to play for the jersey rather than hiding when it all goes tits up.

Saintkev

31-03-2007, 08:15 PM

Gutted too...

First half we were ace, but cheated by the most inept linesman ever...

Second, we really didn't look interested... nightmare of a deflection for their first and then a shocking red card for The Cat... he was deliberately trying to pull his arms out of the way. If it had been a defender he wouldn't have sent him off... shocking.

Very poor second half.

HertsSaintee

31-03-2007, 08:38 PM

Game of two halves really. We were excellent in the first half, but failed to make the most of the chances we created. Then payed for it in the second half. Yet again, the Saints players' evil twins came out after the break as we lost the plot. I don't think it was the red card that turned the game, their flukey equaliser was the crucial moment. Most refs would have sent Cat off, but he was terribly unlucky. The bad thing is that that clown will get his game in goal for us down at Gretna next week after all. Didn't look arsed when he came on, and his kicking's still b******s. Good riddance. Worrying how easily we were taken apart at the back in the second half too. Ando playing in his least favoured position had a couple of rough moments, but still managed a better shift to the player immediately to his left who looked a one dimensional liability for the umpteenth time this season. Captain Kev had to play the role of both centre backs at the same time many times this afternoon. What the hells happened to Sheerin too?? Give us 11 Martin Hardies please.

Off to read a bit of one of my fave novels. Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

Herts

Aitchy

31-03-2007, 08:39 PM

For those of us that were not at the game, what was the actual story with the pitch invasion then?

mainstand

31-03-2007, 08:50 PM

Game changed when Coyle took Peaso off & unless he was injured it was the wrong sub` for me . Jason had one of these days where he took the wrong option too many times ,passing to no-one when he should have tried a shot & taking one touch too many.

Peaso actually came towards the bench and signelled taht he was finished about 3 minutes before he was subbed.

Indicator

31-03-2007, 08:53 PM

Slightly off topic but 'Standby for a lot of use of the name 'Saintees' as the usual suspects take the 'P' on Pie and Bovril. Has anyone else noticed how they tend to use that particular name when we've had a bad day and they are trying to wind us up??

perthandproud

31-03-2007, 09:22 PM

From the official web site: -
It was some time before Manager Owen Coyle attended the post-match press conference in the wake of the 2-1 defeat from Livingston and he was quick to explain why.

“I’ve just watched the red card incident on video and it confirms my belief that Kevin should not have been sent off. He had no intention of handling the ball and made no move to do so, we had two men on the goal line and yet it is deemed the denial of a goalscoring opportunity? It is beyond belief.

“I don’t envy referees their jobs but I have invited Mr Smith into my room to watch the video but he has declined.”

must admit i though the handled the ball on purpose, but it was never a straight red, Mcmanus was in the box, and heading for the goal line(good defending in my book) and there was somebody to the right of him.
Thought the defence didnt trust KC today lots of times he should have come/the defence should have cleared earlier but neither of them made a quick decision.

Mr Spoons

31-03-2007, 09:29 PM

Is it not the case that keepers get a straight red for deliberately handling outside the box? Not saying Kev did, but is the denial of goal scoring oppertunity relevant?

perthandproud

31-03-2007, 09:30 PM

No idea if it a straight red for a keeper and maybe thats where some of the confusion on us mere fans comes in?

Radford 72

31-03-2007, 09:36 PM

perthandproud

31-03-2007, 09:44 PM

dont think he needs to worry about not getting in the team again!
Bit out of order not telling him what he's been sent off for, is it me or does that sound like the audio clip finishes before he says something he shouldnt?

Nick

31-03-2007, 10:02 PM

slf

31-03-2007, 10:13 PM

kevin cuthbert no.1 goalie

more comments soon

Norsaint

31-03-2007, 11:04 PM

I assume since this is going to the media it can't get Kev into any more bother but if the mods deem it might then feel free to remove it...

http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/audio.php?media_id=103

Kev is the second voice with Graham Dorrans speaking first.

I think it's clear to tell how upset KC is about the whole thing.

Couldn't help feeling a bit sorry for Kev listening to that. Hopefully he should not have to worry about getting his place back for the Semi.

Broggy Man

01-04-2007, 12:30 AM

Just listened to that and cat could be in trouble. BUT you can see the lads point. Now legal head on there may be a legal question to answer here if a referee refuse to give the reason to the individual for his decision when the individuals livelihood his damaged. ? Big question and to be perfectly honest the officials were aboslutly rank today and as much as we have the right to berate the team when they are crap we also have the right to answers from the officials as we also pay there wages.

Chansey

01-04-2007, 01:43 AM

just got in, gutted and quite simply can't be bothered reading the other posts.

as soon as i got in the ground i could tell the importance of thi fixture was rubbing off on both the players and the fans everyone was up for it, and this was reflected in the first half performance, we were great..no more needs to be said.

BUT

What on earth did OC tell the players at half time, my money is on "sit back and defend the lead." I have said it several times, why do we continually defend a slim lead. In my eyes we are ten times better at attacking than we are defending, and what ever happened to the good old policy of attacking is the best form of defending. I have no doubt if we didn't set out to defend the lead in the second half we would have won that game, and that is what is so frustrating. Coyle has done brilliantly to get us to where we are today, but today showed his weakness...he is too naive (sp?)

Dorrens changed the game for them, as he has done in our previous 3 meeting against them, i think he looks a decent prospect for them, and was very pleased to see he wasn't startying for them...how that back fired!

templeofsaints

01-04-2007, 08:49 AM

Chansey

01-04-2007, 10:03 AM

http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/audio.php?media_id=103

would anyone beable to quote what is said, doesn't seem to be working for me.

Broggy Man

01-04-2007, 10:10 AM

That's true. As it is I think Saints have a good case (and video evidence) to perhaps appeal against the red card and get it reduced to a booking. Might be worthwhile?

Its absolutely awefull when the arogance of officials come through like that. Jimmy Calderwood has went public on it gordon Strachan went public on it. To answer a question from a player in those circumstances get off or ill red you again is a bloody disgrace. There should be a hearing and the accusation should be answered by the referee I have no doubt others would have heard it and it is about time players from all clubs got together on this and say it the way it happens. After all if a player had acted in such a way he would have been disciplined. If this arrogance is not stamped out referees will never get any respect at all.

^sainteebrian^

01-04-2007, 10:17 AM

saw jason on a jog after my work at about 8 must of not played amazing he looked quite nackerd

Zimmerman

01-04-2007, 12:25 PM

Although we faded in the second half, when that boy dorrans came on everything just went wrong, I actually can't believe how unlucky we were.

To best sum it up, what was going on with that linesman? Peaso was about 10 yards behind play at one point, the ball got played through to scotland who was off side but walking back, the game went on as expected. Then peaso decided to go for the ball, obviously no one was even looking at the linesman, yet when he got there he put his flag up, he simply should not be allowed to be a linesman. Did anyone see the preston-leeds game? It was like that!

You just had to laugh at the ginger boy running on the park, Im not a fan of this stuff, but it was totally pointless and just summed up a crazy afternoon! Why did the boy go to cuthbert instead of the referee, crazy!

HertsSaintee

01-04-2007, 01:02 PM

Good point about Dorrans, Zimmerman. My heart sank when he came off the bench - seems to be one of our real bogey players this season.

Just listened to that interview with Cat, and he sounds completely gutted. Agree with the comments about the referee telling him to "get walking, otherwise I'll send you off again" when Kev asked him WHY he was being sent off. Jesus, there's people who would deck folk if they spoke to them like that in a pub. Cuthbert is an honest player who has bided his time at Saints to get his chance, and everyone saw that this wasn't deliberate handball, and as was rightly said, the fact the player was wide and two defenders were on the goalline doesn't make it a goalscoring opportunity. This "referee" has treated it as some Toni Schumacher type incident, and hasn't even had the courtesy to clarify to Kev his reasoning, as well as declining the opportunity to explain to the Saints Manager with the benefit of video evidence. Something stinks with this referee and Saints should definitely appeal the decision. Funny how this ref has turned up with probably the worst assistant refereeing performance of the season on the East Stand side... Cheats? Maybe not. Incompetent? Probably. There were at least two through ball chances in the first half that if they weren't flagged would have resulted in a one-on-one with the keeper. And where was the same linesman to correct the ref when Cat walked? This dross we have to put up with in terms of officials has got to change - it's ruining the game, as the officials were arguably the most important performers yesterday. Interesting to hear what Chopper's take on these incidents are as a ref?

But however hard done by we feel, this is not THE incident that has likely lost us the league. We lost it over the season by not being consistent enough and not winning the crucial games at crucial times. We need to get that winning mentality transferred from the cup to the league for next season.

Herts

john1962

01-04-2007, 01:18 PM

Although the referee was wrong with the sending off I do feel that its given Coyle the perfect get out for a second half performance that was awful. I think we were heading for a defeat with eleven men. Livingston were well on top by that stage.

The decision making was lousy. We had been in their faces in the first half but we sat back straight after half time. How many times do we have to do that before the players learn? If it was not a choice but we were forced back then why was this? Was it the injuries taking their toll? If this is so then they shouldn't have been playing. Jason didn't look fit and Martin Hardie was definitely struggling. Why take Morais off? With ten men you are going to be pushed back and have to hit on the counter so why take your quickest player off?

With the right players and tactics it is possible to get something with ten men. I felt the tactics meant we didn't have the right men.

Two Js

01-04-2007, 01:24 PM

Just to go off topic slightly - If a goalkeeper/defender is sent off for denying a goal scoring opportunity, shouldn't a forward be sent of for knocking the ball over the line with his hand and trying to claim a goal? Denying a goal illegally or scoring a goal illegally amounts to a similar result.

I have seen this happen quite a few times and the forward hasn't even been booked.

Radford 72

01-04-2007, 01:33 PM

I'm not trying to pass yesterday off simply as bad luck but we didn't get any breaks. We were in total control of the game but plagued by an incompotent linesman. I think the injuries took their toll in the second half as we just never got going. Whether the tired legs tightened up with the 15 minute break, I don't know but we were pushed back unlike we ever are at home. Even then though I didn't think we looked under real pressure but they get a massive deflection on the goal to give them yet another slice of luck against us this season. I've found it funny their fans saying on P&B it was the first break they've had this season as they've had one in every game against us!

I actually thought the ref was having a decent game and at the time couldn't judge what had happened with KC for sure although my first instinct was that it wasn't deliberate. Seeing all the evidence since then I'm certain a red card was harsh and I hope we consider an appeal. Someone mentioned to me they recall a similar situation at McD this season with an opposition 'keeper when he handled outside the box... I can't remember it though. Anyone?

OC then made a big error taking Morais off but maybe that was an injury again? We never really looked like winning the game after that and being honest they probably deserved their winner at the time.

I'm still happy with OC in charge and still think without the cup runs we'd have won this league but we need more depth and competition in the squad next season and he has a massive task on his hands replacing Jason. Since we've been at McDiarmid, only Roddy and Paul Wright have matched Jason for goals in a season.

john1962

01-04-2007, 02:01 PM

I am not saying I am not happy with Coyle I just think we make the same errors continously. Things need changed quicker when they go wrong. We hunted in packs in the first half then appeared to say 'come on break us down'.

Another issue I have is that Morais probably wouldn't have played yesterday if Mensing hadn't been suspended. There have been big injury worries before almost every match but the same eleven have played almost every week, other than perhaps Peaso and Savo. Doesn't sit right with me, not only because of the injuries but some of the poor performances should have seen players dropped.

HertsSaintee

01-04-2007, 02:12 PM

Agree 100% with that John. When you consider that more or less every game Felipe has been involved in, either starting or coming off the bench, he's been a real handful for the opposition. Same yesterday. He gives us a real energy and his crossing is superb - just the sort of quality that's required for a player to claim a starting jersey you'd argue. However, if Simon had been available, you're absolutely right, Felipe would have been on the bench, making way for other regulars like Sheerin and McInnes. Hard to describe it, but to me it's the same sort of "lethargy" that Coyle displays in really changing things around that the players have showing that they're "up for it" sometimes. Strange, but it's something that really needs addressing.

Herts

Steve Maskrey

01-04-2007, 02:30 PM

I felt that Felipe would've come off at some point anyway. He had a terrific first half but faded in the second. Question. Who else at that point should Coyle have taken off?

mainstand

01-04-2007, 02:36 PM

I felt that Felipe would've come off at some point anyway. He had a terrific first half but faded in the second. Question. Who else at that point should Coyle have taken off?

It's only been teh wrong decision because we lost. If we had got a victory it would have been a great decision but the people that are questionning it would not he on here congratulating him.

If you lose your keeper you either go with a back 3 and take off a defender 3-4-2 or a midfielder and go 4-3-2 or a striker and go 4-4-1.

If Saints had been winning at the time I think he would have taken off a striker and gone 4-4-1 but at the time of teh sending off it was a draw and taht was why he went with a midfielder and a 4-3-2, 3 more central midfielders thus Morais was subbed.

john1962

01-04-2007, 02:42 PM

It's only been teh wrong decision because we lost. If we had got a victory it would have been a great decision but the people that are questionning it would not he on here congratulating him.

But isn't that the point? Made the decision, we lost so there will be criticism.

Radford 72

01-04-2007, 03:58 PM

But isn't that the point? Made the decision, we lost so there will be criticism.
Indeed. Of course if it had turned it in our favour we'd have praised the decision. Admittedly it's a fine line we weren't going to be able to out pass 10 men that were already on top so surely we had to try and use the pace available to us. I'd have been tempted to take Lilley off again or Jason who was dead on his feet and stick Filipe up top with Hardie supporting to attack anything into the middle.

Agree 100% with that John. When you consider that more or less every game Felipe has been involved in, either starting or coming off the bench, he's been a real handful for the opposition. Same yesterday. He gives us a real energy and his crossing is superb - just the sort of quality that's required for a player to claim a starting jersey you'd argue.
To be fair to OC if Morais performs in training like he did in the reserve game on Tuesday then it's no wonder he gets left out. He was really poor on Tuesday and didn't look interested. His crossing is excellent though but it's a shame neither of our strikers are particularly good attacking headers.

I understand leaving him out against Dundee as their only threat is Swankie so if we play Simon on the right and stamp him out of the game then we don't need to worry about them and can focus on ourselves.

john1962

01-04-2007, 04:01 PM

I'd have been tempted to take Lilley off again or Jason who was dead on his feet and stick Filipe up top with Hardie supporting to attack anything into the middle.

I would agree with that 100%.

THE REBEL SAINT

01-04-2007, 07:56 PM

I felt that Felipe would've come off at some point anyway. He had a terrific first half but faded in the second. Question. Who else at that point should Coyle have taken off?

instead of taking off the best player ac should have taken off the worst player ie steven anderson!! he no good at right back!!

Jamie_Beatson

01-04-2007, 08:51 PM

Although the referee was wrong with the sending off I do feel that its given Coyle the perfect get out for a second half performance that was awful. I think we were heading for a defeat with eleven men. Livingston were well on top by that stage.

I think this is utter nonsense. Livingston had started well in the second but had next to nothing to show for it in terms of real chances. Indeed, we had the best chance of the spell before their equaliser when Scotland's volley from a corner was pushed on to the roof of the net by their keeper.

We were by no means playing well at this stage, but we weathered the storm and had started to play and create a few more chances at that point until Livi's fortuitous equaliser.

templeofsaints

01-04-2007, 08:53 PM

instead of taking off the best player ac should have taken off the worst player ie steven anderson!! he no good at right back!!

That's something else I didn't understand. If McManus was struggling before the game why wasn't he benched and Ando moved alongside James in the middle. Andy Lawrie is a natural right-back and I think it would have given us more balance in defence. We certainly lost a lot of the mobility in the second-half as we defended too deep.

Radford 72

02-04-2007, 07:57 AM

The big thing with Andy Lawrie for me is OC, quite rightly in my eyes, stuck with him at the start of the season when it would've been easy to drop him and once the guy has settled he finds himself in and out of the side. I understand not playing him against Dundee as Ando is a better defender and was there to mark Swankie but surely against Livi, Lawrie, one of the few who trained all week, should've been restored to the side.

Broon

02-04-2007, 08:02 AM

In general I thought we were unlucky with the red for Cat who was having a blinder at the time. He is turning into an excellent keeper for us. We were always going to lose after that. Linesman was having a shocker in the 1st half too (notice he improved at half time) which denied us about 3 clear scoring opportunities.

My feelings on the game were that we were always going to struggle simply because of Coyles regularly shite substitutions. We play well in the 1st then come out in the 2nd and struggle then Coyle takes over. We all knew it was going to be Peaso off for the totally ineffectual Lilly around about 60 mins which is the same mistake every week. He will then proceed to either take of Morais regardless of how well he is playing or take off another striker. Pish. He then consistenty ignores Andy Jackson whilst throwing in McLaren (who barely ever touches the ball).

Overall yes we were unlucky but this defeat was as much our own doing as the officials.

Radford 72

02-04-2007, 08:31 AM

Regarding the linesman, even on the Livi site they are baffled at his decisions in the first half. I wasn't in a great position but on a couple of occasions it was clear from our end even that he was wrong. He always looked well behind play as well?

john1962

02-04-2007, 09:20 AM

I think this is utter nonsense. Livingston had started well in the second but had next to nothing to show for it in terms of real chances. Indeed, we had the best chance of the spell before their equaliser when Scotland's volley from a corner was pushed on to the roof of the net by their keeper.

We were by no means playing well at this stage, but we weathered the storm and had started to play and create a few more chances at that point until Livi's fortuitous equaliser.

I think we will have to agree to disagree then. I certainly think Livi were the better side throughout the second half, granted they didn't make many clear cut chances before the lucky equaliser and we made one or two but any time they came forward we were found wanting. The middle of the park wasn't picking up the runners and this caused all sorts of problems.