Jason Scotland

[Saint Paul]

I know I may upset a few people with this opinion, but I am pissed of with Jason Scotland.

To me, he does not look a team player. On saturday he always wanted to take men on when a simple pass would have either opened things up or at least kept possession, especially when the midfield is breaking forward to join in play only to have to sprint back as Scotland has lost possession.

Scotland is a great talent, but is very frustrating. Yes, he has scored his fair share of goals, but again on saturday, how many times did he try to hit the ball from outside the box when it was crowded with people to block the shot, or someone was running on the outside in a better position to cross ?

Someone said in the injury thread that Milne and Dobbie at the start of the season were scoring. I believe that this is due to the fact that they linked up with each other but I do not believe that Scotland is doing the same for Milne. It can not be a coincidence that since has started to play with Milne, Milne has stopped scoring.

For me, Scotland was at his best playing behind Milne and Dobbie. He can run at people from there as he seems to want to do, but he has to learn to pass more and bring other people into the game. He is not the only person on the pitch ! :x

Sorry for the rant, it has been bugging me for a few games now.

[chopper]

I know I may upset a few people with this opinion, but I am pissed of with Jason Scotland.

To me, he does not look a team player. On saturday he always wanted to take men on when a simple pass would have either opened things up or at least kept possession, especially when the midfield is breaking forward to join in play only to have to sprint back as Scotland has lost possession.

Scotland is a great talent, but is very frustrating. Yes, he has scored his fair share of goals, but again on saturday, how many times did he try to hit the ball from outside the box when it was crowded with people to block the shot, or someone was running on the outside in a better position to cross ?

Someone said in the injury thread that Milne and Dobbie at the start of the season were scoring. I believe that this is due to the fact that they linked up with each other but I do not believe that Scotland is doing the same for Milne. It can not be a coincidence that since has started to play with Milne, Milne has stopped scoring.

For me, Scotland was at his best playing behind Milne and Dobbie. He can run at people from there as he seems to want to do, but he has to learn to pass more and bring other people into the game. He is not the only person on the pitch ! :x

Sorry for the rant, it has been bugging me for a few games now.

I agree with the jist of the post pretty much Paul. For me, his best game was when he played behind Milne and Peaso in the 1-1 down at Stranraer. He dragged the marker out wide and created space for Sheerin and Stevenson to get inside and work with the front 2, creating chance after chance that neither Milne or Peaso stuck away.

I would like to see Scotland dropped for Jackson on Saturday as I think Milne and Jackson would be a good partnership, although with Milne's injury I can see Jacko coming in and partnering Scotland.

[Nick]

He does get on my nerves to, mainly with his I canny be arsed chasing that ball.. etc

My old man went to his first game in 2 years on Monday, and apart from saying never again, he said that if he was Jason Scotland he wouldnt be passig either cause all the other players are hopeless!!

He also said if we never had Jason Scotland we could have found ourselves in a worse postition than Dundee.

[chopper]

He does get on my nerves to, mainly with his I canny be arsed chasing that ball.. etc

My old man went to his first game in 2 years on Monday, and apart from saying never again, he said that if he was Jason Scotland he wouldnt be passig either cause all the other players are hopeless!!

Your dad sounds like most of the Saints support who go every week :***:

[Saint Paul]

My old man went to his first game in 2 years on Monday, and apart from saying never again, he said that if he was Jason Scotland he wouldnt be passig either cause all the other players are hopeless!!

Yeah, the problem is that Scotland seems to have this attitude already !!

He is also extremely reluctant to chase back after he has lost the ball. I can't remember the exact incident on Saturday, but it was in the first half, where he was disposessed (pretty easily I may add) and he could easily have chased the defender to win the ball back but literrally shrugged his shoulders and trotted back as if he didn't have a care in the world.

I find it quite baffling that someone like OC, who always had a tremendous work ethic throughout his career can tolerate such an attitude.

[Kevin]

He is also extremely reluctant to chase back after he has lost the ball. I can't remember the exact incident on Saturday, but it was in the first half, where he was disposessed (pretty easily I may add) and he could easily have chased the defender to win the ball back but literrally shrugged his shoulders and trotted back as if he didn't have a care in the world.

I find it quite baffling that someone like OC, who always had a tremendous work ethic throughout his career can tolerate such an attitude.

OC feels that Jason 'lights up the park' whe he is on the pitch and his style also fits in with the one that says strikers don't drop back to cover as there is nobody there for a breakaway..... (none of these are my words or thoughts btw!)

[nips]

There is no doubt in my mind that if it wasn't for Scotland the last couple of months we would be screwed. Not just for his goals but because he is our only dangerous option in attack. It's a very simplistic way of looking at things but I'm not surprised he doesn't pass more often as nobody else in the team offers any creativity.

Also, against Dundee, yeah he dribbled the ball a lot and was tackled a few times, but on most of these occassions dribbling was his only option as nobody wa looking for a pass. I also lost count of the amount of times he played a pass through into a dangerous position and the other players weren't anticipating it (Henry and Savo the main culprits). There is no excuse for this IMO, especially from Savo - strikers are supposed to be predaratory and hungry for goals, you aint gonna get goals if you don't get into dangerous positions and look for a pass.

[blueheaven]

I would like to see Scotland dropped for Jackson on Saturday as I think Milne and Jackson would be a good partnership, although with Milne's injury I can see Jacko coming in and partnering Scotland.

Dropping Scotland would be madness! He is the best player in the division and the only guy in the team recently who has looked remotely dangerous for us. We have two strikers playing - one who causes defences problems, is actually able to dribble past opponents, makes an impact on the game and scores goals, and one who does none of those things - and you want to drop the first one!! :shock: :? Without Scotland we'd be even further down the table, in my opinion.

I agree that he is greedy, but to be honest I don't care, because when he does pass it his team-mates invariably mess it up anyway. He played a perfect through ball to Milne on Monday, and the chance ended up disappearing because Milne let it run out wide instead of shooting. I'd also point out his perfect cut-back for Milne against St Mirren, when Milne still somehow didn't score. Was it not also Scotland who cut it back for Stevenson in the opening minutes at Airdrie? (I might be wrong on that last one). At the moment I'd rather have Scotland on the pitch holding onto the ball and shooting, because at least that way there's a chance of us scoring goals. That viewpoint might change if some of his team mates were to start taking their chances and looking a bit more dangerous - if Peaso (who I think we're really missing at the moment) came back, for example, or if Milne's form improved, or if Jackson/Doris were given a chance to start but Scotland was ignoring them. But until the other attacking players start doing their jobs a bit better, I say Scotland should carry on doing what he's doing.

[Broon]

Dropping Scotland would be madness! He is the best player in the division and the only guy in the team recently who has looked remotely dangerous for us. We have two strikers playing - one who causes defences problems, is actually able to dribble past opponents, makes an impact on the game and scores goals, and one who does none of those things - and you want to drop the first one!! :shock: :? Without Scotland we'd be even further down the table, in my opinion.

I agree that he is greedy, but to be honest I don't care, because when he does pass it his team-mates invariably mess it up anyway. He played a perfect through ball to Milne on Monday, and the chance ended up disappearing because Milne let it run out wide instead of shooting. I'd also point out his perfect cut-back for Milne against St Mirren, when Milne still somehow didn't score. Was it not also Scotland who cut it back for Stevenson in the opening minutes at Airdrie? (I might be wrong on that last one). At the moment I'd rather have Scotland on the pitch holding onto the ball and shooting, because at least that way there's a chance of us scoring goals. That viewpoint might change if some of his team mates were to start taking their chances and looking a bit more dangerous - if Peaso (who I think we're really missing at the moment) came back, for example, or if Milne's form improved, or if Jackson/Doris were given a chance to start but Scotland was ignoring them. But until the other attacking players start doing their jobs a bit better, I say Scotland should carry on doing what he's doing.

Exactly!!!!!

Without Scotland we would be relegation fodder - no question. I wouldn't pass to Milne on his current form either.

[malcolm]

at the moment Jason and Stanic are the only class players in the side. Jason does what he is good at - delivering the killer pass , shooting, and running at defences. At the moment he is not doing much passing 'cos there is nobody to pass to. I wouldn't want to see him chasing back.
What we need are a couple of players in the team who can give him a through ball - or run into space so he can pass to them.
The only advantage in dropping Scotland would be that season tickets might be cheaper in the second division.

[garydavidson]

i think if we got promoted sometime with jason scotland his quality would come through more. in this division everyone knows about him and he is getting it really hard from the opposition teams.

the first game i saw him in was the partick cup match where i thought he was not very good becuase his attitude stunk.

but at the ross county game he did spark up the front line.

i would say he is better when in behind the strikers cause he can make opportunities and men will go to him as they know what he can do.

from what i have seen there doesnt seem to be many players who have passion for playing for saints but thats maybe cause i remember the glory season too much where everyone chipped in.

i have only seen three games this season and it seems like the team have not settled with each other yet but there seems to be some positives. the defence is more worry from what i have seen of them!

[Shaggy Jenkins]

I agree with the first poster

[SG]

I would like to see Scotland dropped for Jackson on Saturday as I think Milne and Jackson would be a good partnership, although with Milne's injury I can see Jacko coming in and partnering Scotland.

Chopper , you have said in a previous post that you would like anderson in at centre half for james( ain't gonna happen as long as james's fit ) and now you want coyle to drop our most threatening player (cos like it or not thats what he is )! for jackson !! who i'm not doubting has potential !

Barring injuries/suspensions these two changes are very unlikely !! an option would be to get someone in who's on a par with scotland then we might actually get somewhere!!! i'm not disputing he can be a frustrating player, BUT he's our best /only threat just now i'm afraid !!

[Homer J. Simpson]

Scotland is not a bad player he just needs the proper passes to run on to. Half the time on Monday he got the ball with his back to goal and couldn't see anyone to pass to. But when Stevenson was taken off against County and Scotland got to play down the right he looked far happier and got some good crosses in. One of the only players this season to make it to the by-line and do something with it!

[chopper]

Chopper , you have said in a previous post that you would like anderson in at centre half for james( ain't gonna happen as long as james's fit ) and now you want coyle to drop our most threatening player (cos like it or not thats what he is )! for jackson !! who i'm not doubting has potential !

Barring injuries/suspensions these two changes are very unlikely !! an option would be to get someone in who's on a par with scotland then we might actually get somewhere!!! i'm not disputing he can be a frustrating player, BUT he's our best /only threat just now i'm afraid !!

Again, I pointed out these changes would be for Saturday - a cup tie with nothing particular at stake where we can try these things. Scotland's workrate is worse than Dobbie's was, yet he gets all the plaudits for being "the most threatening player". For me, he is more threatening to his own team as his lack of awareness of free players around him can put us in trouble, especially against pacy sides. He is too concerned about ensuring he is on the plane to Germany in the summer than working towards getting us promoted IMO. Jackson gives us someone who is willing to battle for the cause (like Milne) and would pose a bigger threat, especially to immobile defences (such as Dundee's on Monday, Airdrie's on Saturday and St. Mirren's at Love Street a few weeks back).

As for Ando in at centre-back - James is almost certain to be injured and/or suspended for periods between now and the summer and we need to ensure we have cover ready and able to play when this happens. Due to the lack of reserve games, the cup and meaningless league matches are the only feasible times to try these things out.

Again I expected very few people, if anyone, to agree with me as it "goes against the grain" with many.

[Saint Paul]

Again, I pointed out these changes would be for Saturday - a cup tie with nothing particular at stake where we can try these things. Scotland's workrate is worse than Dobbie's was, yet he gets all the plaudits for being "the most threatening player". For me, he is more threatening to his own team as his lack of awareness of free players around him can put us in trouble, especially against pacy sides. He is too concerned about ensuring he is on the plane to Germany in the summer than working towards getting us promoted IMO. Jackson gives us someone who is willing to battle for the cause (like Milne) and would pose a bigger threat, especially to immobile defences (such as Dundee's on Monday, Airdrie's on Saturday and St. Mirren's at Love Street a few weeks back).

As for Ando in at centre-back - James is almost certain to be injured and/or suspended for periods between now and the summer and we need to ensure we have cover ready and able to play when this happens. Due to the lack of reserve games, the cup and meaningless league matches are the only feasible times to try these things out.

Again I expected very few people, if anyone, to agree with me as it "goes against the grain" with many.

I agree with you 100% Chopper, but we seem to be in the minority. :roll:

[mainstand]

Again, I pointed out these changes would be for Saturday - a cup tie with nothing particular at stake where we can try these things. Scotland's workrate is worse than Dobbie's was, yet he gets all the plaudits for being "the most threatening player". For me, he is more threatening to his own team as his lack of awareness of free players around him can put us in trouble, especially against pacy sides. He is too concerned about ensuring he is on the plane to Germany in the summer than working towards getting us promoted IMO. Jackson gives us someone who is willing to battle for the cause (like Milne) and would pose a bigger threat, especially to immobile defences (such as Dundee's on Monday, Airdrie's on Saturday and St. Mirren's at Love Street a few weeks back).

As for Ando in at centre-back - James is almost certain to be injured and/or suspended for periods between now and the summer and we need to ensure we have cover ready and able to play when this happens. Due to the lack of reserve games, the cup and meaningless league matches are the only feasible times to try these things out.

Again I expected very few people, if anyone, to agree with me as it "goes against the grain" with many.

For starters Saturday is far from a meaningless game. It is important to get through the Cup ties.

Jason is one of the best palyers that have played for Saints in years several times he put a ball through on Monday and no one read it, taht's a sign of a player that he is able to read the game more than others and is more a criticism of Milne and teh others in the team than anything else. It is unfair to say that he is not interested in the team and more interested in the World Cup.

[Dev]

I find it staggering that Jason Scotland is given so much criticism. It really is unbelievable. We have a midfield full of passengers like Sheerin, Janczyk and Henry yet Scotland is singled out for criticism? It's bonkers!

Jason Scotland is a flair player. He offers a bit of spark to the side, something that none of our other players have and very few players in this division have. We look at our most dangerous when he gets the ball and runs at defences and he's pretty good at holding the ball up too. It seems to me that he can be made to look greedy by the terrible midfield we have. If we had midfielders who could get forward quicker and give him more support, I'm sure you would see Scotland pass to them. Sadly, our midfield is crap and they rarely make good runs for Jason to pick out.

I do not expect Scotland to run around like a headless chicken chasing players down. It's not in his game and I respect that because of his ability with the ball at his feet. He contributes so much to the side when he has the ball that it doesn't matter if he doesn't put his foot into every challenge. We have other players in other positions whose job it is to win the ball. We can afford to have one Jason Scotland in the team to provide a spark but we obviously couldn't have eleven Jason Scotland's in the side. That's where the rest of the team come in. If they did their jobs properly we wouldn't have a problem. If we had a midfield that gave Scotland decent service and made themselves available in decent positions for a pass we wouldn't even be talking about this. That is what is wrong with our team at the moment, the lack of a decent midfield.

The problem with our team is clearly not Jason Scotland. He is currently our best player. Calls for him to be dropped are ludicrous! What other options do we have? Jackson and Doris? Don't be daft. These players may be good in time but they should be used off the bench to get experience. They can hardly claim a starting spot solely on the basis that they'll run around a lot and put the foot in. I laugh at the people who suggest they should be starting first team matches.

Jason Scotland is great - FACT. The only player we have that other teams are scared of.

I'm 37.

[Dev]

For starters Saturday is far from a meaningless game. It is important to get through the Cup ties.

Jason is one of the best palyers that have played for Saints in years several times he put a ball through on Monday and no one read it, taht's a sign of a player that he is able to read the game more than others and is more a criticism of Milne and teh others in the team than anything else. It is unfair to say that he is not interested in the team and more interested in the World Cup.

Absolutely agree. I can't believe the suggestion here that the cup tie is meaningless - it isn't the Challenge Cup, it's the Scottish Cup and I want to see Saints get as far as possible in it. I'm sure the club would want us to get through from a financial point of view also.

It is very unfair indeed to say that Scotland is more interested in the World Cup than Saints - I can't see any evidence to suggest that this would be true.

I'm 37.

[SG]

Chopper , you have said in a previous post that you would like anderson in at centre half for james( ain't gonna happen as long as james's fit ) and now you want coyle to drop our most threatening player (cos like it or not thats what he is )! for jackson !! who i'm not doubting has potential !

Barring injuries/suspensions these two changes are very unlikely !! an option would be to get someone in who's on a par with scotland then we might actually get somewhere!!! i'm not disputing he can be a frustrating player, BUT he's our best /only threat just now i'm afraid !!

Again, I pointed out these changes would be for Saturday - a cup tie with nothing particular at stake where we can try these things. Scotland's workrate is worse than Dobbie's was, yet he gets all the plaudits for being "the most threatening player". For me, he is more threatening to his own team as his lack of awareness of free players around him can put us in trouble, especially against pacy sides. He is too concerned about ensuring he is on the plane to Germany in the summer than working towards getting us promoted IMO. Jackson gives us someone who is willing to battle for the cause (like Milne) and would pose a bigger threat, especially to immobile defences (such as Dundee's on Monday, Airdrie's on Saturday and St. Mirren's at Love Street a few weeks back).

As for Ando in at centre-back - James is almost certain to be injured and/or suspended for periods between now and the summer and we need to ensure we have cover ready and able to play when this happens. Due to the lack of reserve games, the cup and meaningless league matches are the only feasible times to try these things out.

Again I expected very few people, if anyone, to agree with me as it "goes against the grain" with many.


Hey chopper , i've never disagreed with you before,(not that i can remember), i just think that the two changes you mentioned are more likely to hinder the team than enhance it....and in my opinion saturdays game is far from meaningless ...IF ,and a big IF we beat gretna , and we draw any of the old firm away ( i know it's all if ,if,if) but that pay day might just be the difference in us being able to compete at the top end of this league next year /season!!!

[MUZZ]

scotland really gets on my tits at times. great talent no doubt, but we're trying to build a team here and he aint no team player. thinks hes too good for div1. dont know how the permit thing works like, but if we got a decent bid for him this month, would u want him to go? i'd sell him in a minute. time to concentrate on boys who want to be and will be here next year.

[mainstand]

scotland really gets on my tits at times. great talent no doubt, but we're trying to build a team here and he aint no team player. thinks hes too good for div1. dont know how the permit thing works like, but if we got a decent bid for him this month, would u want him to go? i'd sell him in a minute. time to concentrate on boys who want to be and will be here next year.

Incredible!! Let's get rid of our best player! :evil: :twisted:

[blueheaven]

It is very unfair indeed to say that Scotland is more interested in the World Cup than Saints - I can't see any evidence to suggest that this would be true.

Even if Scotland IS more interested in the World Cup than Saints, does it really matter? As long as there's something motivating him to play at his best, then I don't care what it is. If the reason he wants to do well for us is so that he can play in the World Cup (which is, after all, a much bigger stage than the piddly little SPL), then that's fine by me - as long as it does involve him wanting to do his best.

Chopper commented on Savo and Jackson being "willing to battle for the cause" - but that doesn't make them good footballers, or mean that they are on form. Milne's recent form proves that being a hard-working battler doesn't go hand in hand with being a threat. Frankly, the guy has been a complete waste of a jersey for about a month now, and I'm yet to see anyone come up with a plausible explanation for why he shouldn't be dropped. As Dev says, you don't need eleven battlers on the pitch. Scotland is a flair player, something different - the sort of different we've been crying out for for years, and then once he gets here people slag him off for not being just another one of the blood-and-snotters-but-bugger-all-skill Scottish types! What is this obsession Scottish football fans have with every player needing to run tackling all the time? Personally I want a team with a bit of variety - sure, some players who will tackle, but also some who will create.

I do want to see one of Jackson or Doris given a chance to start on Saturday, but it has to be in place of Milne, not Scotland. Scotland's our best player!! :shock:

scotland really gets on my tits at times. great talent no doubt, but we're trying to build a team here and he aint no team player. thinks hes too good for div1. dont know how the permit thing works like, but if we got a decent bid for him this month, would u want him to go? i'd sell him in a minute. time to concentrate on boys who want to be and will be here next year.

Unbelievable!!! :shock: :shock:

[Dev]

scotland really gets on my tits at times. great talent no doubt, but we're trying to build a team here and he aint no team player. thinks hes too good for div1. dont know how the permit thing works like, but if we got a decent bid for him this month, would u want him to go? i'd sell him in a minute. time to concentrate on boys who want to be and will be here next year.

Thinks he's too good for Division 1? He is too good for Division 1!

Why do you want to sell him? He'd be a huge loss and we would undoubtedly gain fewer points without him.

How do you know he won't be here next year? He has a two year contract and thus it is up to us what he does next year.

Perhaps if he was given more support from the fans he'd work a bit harder. I felt sorry for him at Airdrie - being abused by both sets of fans and most of the Airdrie team while carrying an injury. Seemed pretty harsh to me. I wish people would get off his back!

I'm 37.

[MUZZ]

scotland really gets on my tits at times. great talent no doubt, but we're trying to build a team here and he aint no team player. thinks hes too good for div1. dont know how the permit thing works like, but if we got a decent bid for him this month, would u want him to go? i'd sell him in a minute. time to concentrate on boys who want to be and will be here next year.

Incredible!! Let's get rid of our best player! :evil: :twisted:why not? are we going up this year? not likely.

do u think he'll be here next year? not sure, but i cant see it.

just think we should be building for next year and if scotland aint gonna be part of it, why have him here

[Watty]

Christ, the day the good doctor returns i find myself backing him to the hilt, i'm shocked. Drop Scotland, fook me, crazy talk. Meanigless game, chopsy, come on son.

[Tranmere Saintee]

As people will have guessed, I am not a great fan of Jason's greediness and IMHO the other forwards do not anticipate his passes because they are so rare - as I have said elsewhere they are correctly anticipating him either shooting or losing the ball and are trying to cover those options.

But, by the same token, there is no way we can afford to drop him at present, but OC needs to drum it in to him that it is a team game.

One last point, if he is too good for the 1st divison and is not good enough for the SPL (hence his few starts with Utd) then where is he good enough for :?

[Watty]

One last point, if he is too good for the 1st divison and is not good enough for the SPL (hence his few starts with Utd) then where is he good enough for :?

First Division Perth Amateur League?

[auld reekie saint]

Is this a piss take suggesting Scotland should be dropped.
The most exciting player we have had in years so lets slag him?????I'm away to lie down in a dark room???????????

[SG]

One last point, if he is too good for the 1st divison and is not good enough for the SPL (hence his few starts with Utd) then where is he good enough for :?[/quote]


Apparently he's good enough for the 2006 world cup !

[LewGti]

As a few have mentioned i cant believe what i am reading either. Its madness to even think Jason Scotland should be dropped, I mean are yous being serious. He is our top scorer, our most skillfull player and by far the best in the whole league and we are having this thread. I dont believe it

[chopper]

As a few have mentioned i cant believe what i am reading either. Its madness to even think Jason Scotland should be dropped, I mean are yous being serious. He is our top scorer, our most skillfull player and by far the best in the whole league and we are having this thread. I dont believe it

Again, Scotland is a "flair" player and we have seen too often what happens when he gets kicked around the place. Teams are wise to it and are willing to sacrifice a couple of bookings to give him a knock or two and nullify any threat because he isn't interested. It is what clubs did to Latapy (except us) and it tended to work, and I see a lot of those traits in Scotland.

I do agree that he is the best "player" on the team, but as Muzz said - we have to have a team, not individual talents, and it is more than a coincidence that when Milne and Dobbie were playing up front together, we were scoring goals and creating lots of chances. Now, all we get is Scotland being greedy and not passing the ball yet still expecting Savo and others to be there when he finally does make a pass (about 10 dribbles later!). Milne and Dobbie or Milne and Jackson for me - Scotland is a luxury we cannot afford to carry IMO.

[LewGti]

I agree chopper but i just think we cant afford to drop Scotland, and i cant believe some people have even suggested it. Play Scotland behind Milne and Dobbie

[chopper]

I agree chopper but i just think we cant afford to drop Scotland, and i cant believe some people have even suggested it. Play Scotland behind Milne and Dobbie

That is OK when we have a defensive midfielder such as Sheridan or even Mensing, but when both are suspended that would make us even more lightweight in the middle whether you play Henry or Sheerin in there!!!

[LewGti]

Naw.....Play a 4-3-1-2.....it seemed to work in championship manager for me :***:

[chopper]

Deek Townsley plays centre-half for Gretna, Jase will have a field day!

Is that the lad from River City? If so, even I would have a field day :***: :roll:

As for Scotland, my logic is pretty simple. I want a "team" of players all working for each other to get the results that we were getting at the start of the season, with the good football that gave us serious optimism for the year ahead - not a team of 10 plus the rogue individual in Scotland I personally feel that Scotland is the best, if not one of the best, individual players who I have seen in a Saints shirt. However, unlike Baltacha, Kernaghan, O'Neil, Kane, O'Boyle and Jenkinson (to name a few!) I do not buy into the belief that he is a "team" player. His failure to involve his teammates is there for all to see and this is why I would prefer Milne and Dobs up front with Jacko and Doreen to come off the bench and run the hell out of defences.

Again, it is an opinion and while it doesn't follow the logic of the majority, it is one that I think serves us better. It is no coincidence our best football was played before Scotland joined the club!

[Shaggy Jenkins]

Deek Townsley plays centre-half for Gretna, Jase will have a field day!

Is that the lad from River City? If so, even I would have a field day :***: :roll:

As for Scotland, my logic is pretty simple. I want a "team" of players all working for each other to get the results that we were getting at the start of the season, with the good football that gave us serious optimism for the year ahead - not a team of 10 plus the rogue individual in Scotland I personally feel that Scotland is the best, if not one of the best, individual players who I have seen in a Saints shirt. However, unlike Baltacha, Kernaghan, O'Neil, Kane, O'Boyle and Jenkinson (to name a few!) I do not buy into the belief that he is a "team" player. His failure to involve his teammates is there for all to see and this is why I would prefer Milne and Dobs up front with Jacko and Doreen to come off the bench and run the hell out of defences.

Again, it is an opinion and while it doesn't follow the logic of the majority, it is one that I think serves us better. It is no coincidence our best football was played before Scotland joined the club!

Pretty much my thoughts. I had the same problems with Mo Mo

[Dooj]

As for Scotland, my logic is pretty simple. I want a "team" of players all working for each other to get the results that we were getting at the start of the season, with the good football that gave us serious optimism for the year ahead - not a team of 10 plus the rogue individual in Scotland I personally feel that Scotland is the best, if not one of the best, individual players who I have seen in a Saints shirt. However, unlike Baltacha, Kernaghan, O'Neil, Kane, O'Boyle and Jenkinson (to name a few!) I do not buy into the belief that he is a "team" player. His failure to involve his teammates is there for all to see and this is why I would prefer Milne and Dobs up front with Jacko and Doreen to come off the bench and run the hell out of defences.

Again, it is an opinion and while it doesn't follow the logic of the majority, it is one that I think serves us better. It is no coincidence our best football was played before Scotland joined the club!

I think that whether you see Scotland as a 'team player' or not depends very much on the job that OC has given him to do. I think that being a team player means that you have to do the job that you are given and that might mean being selfish when you have the ball and not being expected to defend. So, it could look on the pitch that Scotland is taking life easy but this could be because his manager told him to. If we don't know what job he has been given, I don't see how we can determine whether he is contributing to the team or not.

Personally, if I was OC, I wouldn't be worried about Scotland's performances - he has the ability to turn games with a flash of brilliance but I think it is too much to expect him to do this in every game. I don't agree that he is a luxury in the team at all. The last thing that I would want to see is a team of 'hard workers' huffing and puffing around the pitch, putting maximum effort in but showing no ability or creativity. Every team needs those who are creative and those who are hard workers - getting the balance is the key to any manager's job. If you took Scotland out of the team I think the side would be unbalanced and lacking in creativity.

[chopper]

As a wee aside - after waking up to the aftermath of the Arsenal-Man Ure borefest on Tuesday night, it was interesting to hear George Graham talk about the balance of the team saying every team should have 5 defensive minded players and 5 attacking minded players.

Do we have that at Saints? Take Monday's team:

Defensively - Anderson, Ruti, James, Stanic

Attacking - Scotland, Milne, Henry, Sheerin, Stevenson, Janczyk

Thus an unbalanced team.

I do appreciate Sheridan and Mensing would have been contenders instead of Janczyk to balance out the team but for me, apart from Willie Dyer and, for the moment, David Hannah, we have very little defensive minded cover. This is being shown with the suspensions and injuries at the minute and could point to OC looking towards defensive players as well this window.

[dave mc]

Fotheringham is almost a cert for defensive midfield on sat.Another wee thought i had was,what about Ando in there,it might suit him to just be a spoiler and not too concerned with having to pass,as he has to do at full back.



Oops forgot Sheridan could play on sat!

[gc7969]

Scotland should be played behind a front two. I do not want "forwards" back in our penalty area defending, I want them up towards the mid pitch line to give the defence/goalie and option. Jason behind two forwards would get more space and be able to drive at defenders which is what he does best.

He is not the most skilful Saint of recent times but at least can excite the fans on occasion.

With the likes of McManus, Scrabble (if fit) to provide balls into space to use his pace then he would be a danger to teams. With the present midfield lacking any creativity his work is normally too far from goal. Like all players so far this season, could do better IMO.

[HeronAddict]

This is insanity! For years saints fans have been moaning that our teams have no skill, no flair players, and as soon as we manage to get a genuinely talented player, capable of turning a game in a second and who is, after all, good enough to probably be going to the freaking World Cup, some of you want him punted out of the side for "not being a team player".

I feel that if Scotland had a bit more support from the team behind him, he wouldn't need to go on the solo runs and sometimes hold onto the ball for too long that some of you find so repellent. Its all very well saying that football needs to be a team game, but does that mean we should have eleven cloggers in the team, with very little individual skill. Would this be ok if they all 'worked hard' and 'put tackles in'? As has already been stated by the more realistic forum members, this isn't Scotland's game - as Chopper does point out, every team needs a balance of attacking and defensive players, and in my opinion defensively we're ok, its the attacking side of our game that's letting us down and therefore dropping Scotland, currently our most dangerous attacking player, would be madness. There's at least 8 or 9 players I'd drop currently before Scotland.

Also the point about Scotland not being committed due to the world cup is total rubbish. In fact, the prospect of the world cup should motivate him even further. He's by no means assured of being picked - apparently its between him and Samuel for a place in the squad, and therefore he's going to be determined to play at his very best for saints to ensure that he's going to Germany.

[Saintkev]

I'm usually the sort of guy that thinks the team should come first but have to agree with Heron above... the team is benefitting from him being in it, whether or not he makes the right pass at the right time.

Oor Jase should be an automatic choice!

[templeofsaints]

I'm usually the sort of guy that thinks the team should come first but have to agree with Heron above... the team is benefitting from him being in it, whether or not he makes the right pass at the right time.

Oor Jase should be an automatic choice!

Agreed - even last week when he was showing signs of apathy you still felt he was about the only one on the park who could create a goal.

[Finners]

I have to disagree with people criticising jason (im not baised so ignore the T & T flag! ***) because he is sometimes the only person who can light up the game.At the moment saints are VERY disappointing and it is easy to critisice anyone in a saints shirt.

[Real Madrid]

If he plays too well tomorrow Gretna will buy him :***:

[mapleleaf]

If he plays too well tomorrow Gretna will buy him :***:

You may be more shrewd than you know, Real. A player like him on a team like Saints is out to showcase himself at every opportunity in order to attract a bigger club. If, as B.H. says, he is the best player in the Division he will not be with Saints for long. It's a case of Scotland is going somewhere, Saint Johnstone are not, so he is trying to make sure that he can get a better deal elsewhere. Therefore, the hell with the team.

It's become fairly apparent to me over the last couple of years that teams in the first division are developmental in nature. That is, once in a while clubs in such a division will occasionally develop a player of enough calibre to move to a higher division.

If Saints cannot win promotion, Scotland is gone. If he is as good as people on the forum seem to think he is, then one of the teams in the SPL will want him. They will get him too, because the Saints will not be able to afford him.

I responded to this post for two reasons:

1. Real Madrid's insight;

2. The thread brings back memories of Keigan Parker. A few years back, all of what is in this thread was in another thread about that kid.

Smudge 8)

[Steve Maskrey]

Ah Maple, but Saints are in the best position as they've got him on a 2 year contract and any other team coming in would not only need to pay a decent fee for him, they would also have to apply for a work permit for him.

I predict oor Jase to help Saints get back on track in the promotion race and run rings round the Gretna defence, scoring a couple of goals into the bargain and see us safely into the next round of the cup :D

[lethamsaintee]

for a player with world cup ambitions , he was totally shocking today, awful in fact. lazy, greedy and general couldnt be arsed attitude.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

He was crap. In his defence if any can be offered I dont think he is fit.....but that is why we have Dobbie and coyle. The young lad was out of his depth today

[lethamsaintee]

He was crap. In his defence if any can be offered I dont think he is fit.....but that is why we have Dobbie and coyle. The young lad was out of his depth today

dya think?, the "young lad" was the only striker who gave me any hope today, the only one who managed to create space for himself to have shots on goal.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

He was crap. In his defence if any can be offered I dont think he is fit.....but that is why we have Dobbie and coyle. The young lad was out of his depth today

dya think?, the "young lad" was the only striker who gave me any hope today, the only one who managed to create space for himself to have shots on goal.

Fraid so :cry: . I think He will follow baxter etc etc and be playing for the likes of cowden, forfar etc in the next few years, dont think he is good enough. But that is just my opinion and I have been known to be wrong from time to time :***: and I certainly hope he proves me wrong 8)

Mind you Saints could be about that level soon.

:cry:

[lethamsaintee]

He was crap. In his defence if any can be offered I dont think he is fit.....but that is why we have Dobbie and coyle. The young lad was out of his depth today

dya think?, the "young lad" was the only striker who gave me any hope today, the only one who managed to create space for himself to have shots on goal.

Fraid so :cry: . I think He will follow baxter etc etc and be playing for the likes of cowden, forfar etc in the next few years, dont think he is good enough. But that is just my opinion and I have been known to be wrong from time to time :***: and I certainly hope he proves me wrong 8)

Mind you Saints could be about that level soon.

:cry:

hope you are wrong.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

[quote="Shaggy Jenkins"][quote="lethamsaintee"][quote=Shaggy Jenkins]

hope you are wrong.

Me too

[dave mc]

He's quoted in the papers today,as saying he is fitter now than all season,so that is no excuse for his lack of interest today.The way OC layed into him today doesn't augur well for his future,thought it was fully justified,he looked so unconcerned today!!

[MUZZ]

i'm in a rage so here goes :evil:

like i said previously, scotland is talented but today showed what i mean about him. too greedy, too lazy and no way a team player. jackson IS a cracking young player, but playing with a greedy ego warrior like jason aint the way to help him develop. fook me, i even wanted dobbie and coyle on today.

OC, IF U GET ANY BID FOR JASON, SELL HIM FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR TEAM. ITS YOUR JOB AT RISK.

end of rant

[gc7969]

Scotland was pathetic. He did not look interested and never helped Jackson. As for Jackson, a week back with the Saints coaching staff and he is going backwards already.

[Denzil]

He's quoted in the papers today,as saying he is fitter now than all season,so that is no excuse for his lack of interest today.The way OC layed into him today doesn't augur well for his future,thought it was fully justified,he looked so unconcerned today!!
Seems like we're now starting to see the sand-dancing attitude that found him a spot as a "squad player" at Tannadice. We need players, not passengers. :evil:

[SG]

I've said it before and i'll say it again , love him or hate him scotland is the best thing at mc d , no doubt about it !! give him some decent players to play along side ...you know someone that can actually make a defence splitting pass ..or just any kind of pass!! that he can run onto and you'll see a different player .. not one that has to to come looking for the ball because the lack of talent round about him can't give him any decent service ..our midfield is totally void of any ideas which ain't helping one bit!!! :x

[Hazel1884]

Seems like we're now starting to see the sand-dancing attitude that found him a spot as a "squad player" at Tannadice. We need players, not passengers. :evil:

My boss at work (a Unitit fan who LOVES Jaaaasaaaaan) pretty much summed up Scotland on Thursday to me.

A player who was good coming off the bench to trouble tired defences

I think that pretty much sums up, although i would like to see him played in the hole for a few games if he's going to be continued to be played - i think OCC is showing a tad too much faith in Scotland, as well as others!

Would like to see

Jaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaaan

Dobbie Jackson/Doris

Hopefully Peaso will be back soonish and could put him in for the underperforming member of those 4!

[mapleleaf]

Hoo boy, here we go again.

I can hear the bones break as people jump off the Jason Scotland bandwagon. However, a previous poster put it in a nutshell for me.

It sounds as though he was a Tannadice reject. Need anyone say more?

Smudge 8)(Once refused to sign for United. 'Was scared my best pals would kill me).

[SG]

Hoo boy, here we go again.

I can hear the bones break as people jump off the Jason Scotland bandwagon. However, a previous poster put it in a nutshell for me.

It sounds as though he was a Tannadice reject. Need anyone say more?

Smudge 8)(Once refused to sign for United. 'Was scared my best pals would kill me).


Mapleleaf .. alan main was a united "reject" = great player for us !! we have had a few united "rejects" as you put it who've done well for us thru the years ...infact scotland would still be at united if the home office weren't such fannies !! :wink:

[saintbear]

hey Jason ur playing for ST JOHNSTONE not for JASON SCOTLAND .Theres no I in team so pass the fekin bal
YOUR NOT TO GOOD FOR DIV 1,THERES A LOT OF GOOD PLAYERS IN THIS DIV :evil: :!: :? l

[StDuncM]

Warm weather sportsman! When we wanted someone with balls he was found to be a eunuch.

Sell him.

[mlh75]

Lazy as f**k, but without him we would be even further down the table.
Skillfull but lazy!

[Nick]

Would like to see

Jaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaaan

Dobbie Jackson/Doris

Hopefully Peaso will be back soonish and could put him in for the underperforming member of those 4!

Your quite the comedian Hazel :wink: :!: :!:

[Steve Maskrey]

To be honest, I'd actually like to see Dobbie or Coyle line up alongside Jackson with Scotland playing behind them.

There's no doubt he's a talented player but when the play gets a bit rough for him, he disappears or throws a little tantrum

[Steve Maskrey]

Do people not think it has to be a two-way thing? If we want Jason to work harder, maybe we should be giving him some decent ball and not asking him to spend ninety minutes competing aerially with Townsley and Innes.

Kevin James couldn't even win any headers with Townsley so there's no point in expecting Scotland to do it. He plays at his best when he gets the ball to his feet or to run onto. Most of our players play to their potential when the ball is kept on the ground, so why on earth does James and Rusty insist on playing high balls forward :?:

[templeofsaints]

Do people not think it has to be a two-way thing? If we want Jason to work harder, maybe we should be giving him some decent ball and not asking him to spend ninety minutes competing aerially with Townsley and Innes.

Kevin James couldn't even win any headers with Townsley so there's no point in expecting Scotland to do it. He plays at his best when he gets the ball to his feet or to run onto. Most of our players play to their potential when the ball is kept on the ground, so why on earth does James and Rusty insist on playing high balls forward :?:

Wasn't just James and Rusty - Fozzy and Pamela were doing the same. One of the things I saw Owen complaining about when he came on was that he wasnt getting the ball to his feet. The only decent attacks we had in the first half came from flowing passing moves when the ball never left the deck.

[pezza70]

Could it be that he will now try to stay fit for the world cup to put himself in the window so to speak, and he wont go in too hard in case of sustaining a injury which might jeopardise his selection in the T & T squad?

[Saintkev]

We are not playing to Jason's strengths, yeah, he's let us down from time to time, but we've let him down too.

[Broggy Man]

This may come as a bit of a shock and i wont name the player who provided the info but our Jason is apparantly a complete lazy git at training and quite a few of the players are getting a wee bit pi**** off with it. It has also been passed about that his attitude stinks.
Not from me but i must admit i was a bit surprised at the comments since he had publicaly stated that he was gratefull at the trouble Saints had went to secure his residence in Scotland and the chance to rebuild his football reputation.

I have noticed he is back to his old ways frequenting the pubs of Dundee chasing the women but he was like that before when with the Arabs.

Im just not convinced by the guy his skill is undoubtably the best i have seen for some time at Saints but you have to work in this league or be Russell Latopy and Jason is certainly not either.

People talk about droping him back into midfield. I think his fitness would need to rise dramaticaly and his work ethic also for him to be effective there.

So all in all the best for both club and Jason would be in my opinion if he performed at the world cup and Saints made a tidy profit on him. Or perhaps Jason turns into a workacholic and surprises us all that would be my preference as he does entertain when he wants to..

[Shaggy Jenkins]

We are not playing to Jason's strengths, yeah, he's let us down from time to time, but we've let him down too.

For all I slag him I do agree. The same is true with many in the team. To many high balls and when the ball is played to feet it is to often than the receiving player has his back to goal and has no out. Our passing does not flow forward. Its all to stilted

[GOLDEN PLIMSOLES]

My Two Pence!

Jason Scotland is a lazy pr**k but he was the same with United, Coyle Knows his best position is behind a front two yet he still plays him upfront, the best spell of the game on saturday was when Coyle came on and put Scotland in behind but after ten mins he went back upfront again.
Far be it from me to tell him how to manage a team but playing a long ball game against a team full of six footers and over was hardly the best idea.
The prblem with Saints now is that Brown doesn't want to invest any more money,(ie on a decent manager and a couple of experienced players) he keeps a tight reign on the club and rightyfully so, but when your main income is your training pitch, and you dont seem to have any initiative to bring in more fans then sometimes being to cautious will be your undoing.
There is no point in having a fantastic 10,000 seater stadium when your in the second divison, which is where Saints will be if someone with more desire, drive and passion doesnt come in to change it.
Brown has done well but its time to move over and let someone else come in or start spending some of the cash he has made from all his house sales.
Ironic eh! attendances down because people who live in perth are actually from Edinburgh or Glasgow cause brown sold them a house. :shock:

[saint]

My Two Pence!

Jason Scotland is a lazy pr**k but he was the same with United, Coyle Knows his best position is behind a front two yet he still plays him upfront, the best spell of the game on saturday was when Coyle came on and put Scotland in behind but after ten mins he went back upfront again.
Far be it from me to tell him how to manage a team but playing a long ball game against a team full of six footers and over was hardly the best idea.
The prblem with Saints now is that Brown doesn't want to invest any more money,(ie on a decent manager and a couple of experienced players) he keeps a tight reign on the club and rightyfully so, but when your main income is your training pitch, and you dont seem to have any initiative to bring in more fans then sometimes being to cautious will be your undoing.
There is no point in having a fantastic 10,000 seater stadium when your in the second divison, which is where Saints will be if someone with more desire, drive and passion doesnt come in to change it.
Brown has done well but its time to move over and let someone else come in or start spending some of the cash he has made from all his house sales.
Ironic eh! attendances down because people who live in perth are actually from Edinburgh or Glasgow cause brown sold them a house. :shock:

Do you even know what you are talking about?
Main income is training pitch? at seventy pounds an hour, are you having a laugh?
As far as I know GS Brown don't even sell houses in Edinburgh or Glasgow!
Try getting a word in edge ways with your wife and you might not need to sound off on here with unsubstantiated rubbish.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

My Two Pence!

Jason Scotland is a lazy pr**k but he was the same with United, Coyle Knows his best position is behind a front two yet he still plays him upfront, the best spell of the game on saturday was when Coyle came on and put Scotland in behind but after ten mins he went back upfront again.
Far be it from me to tell him how to manage a team but playing a long ball game against a team full of six footers and over was hardly the best idea.
The prblem with Saints now is that Brown doesn't want to invest any more money,(ie on a decent manager and a couple of experienced players) he keeps a tight reign on the club and rightyfully so, but when your main income is your training pitch, and you dont seem to have any initiative to bring in more fans then sometimes being to cautious will be your undoing.
There is no point in having a fantastic 10,000 seater stadium when your in the second divison, which is where Saints will be if someone with more desire, drive and passion doesnt come in to change it.
Brown has done well but its time to move over and let someone else come in or start spending some of the cash he has made from all his house sales.
Ironic eh! attendances down because people who live in perth are actually from Edinburgh or Glasgow cause brown sold them a house. :shock:

Do you even know what you are talking about?
Main income is training pitch? at

I would say he is pretty much right about the main income being the training pitch and the corporate side.

It sure as hell is not the football side, if it was not for the football team getting in the way we would have a pretty good business :wink:

I also agree about over caution

[Saintkev]

We are not playing to Jason's strengths, yeah, he's let us down from time to time, but we've let him down too.

For all I slag him I do agree. The same is true with many in the team. To many high balls and when the ball is played to feet it is to often than the receiving player has his back to goal and has no out. Our passing does not flow forward. Its all to stilted

And why do we play long balls?! Nae midfield!

[Shaggy Jenkins]

We are not playing to Jason's strengths, yeah, he's let us down from time to time, but we've let him down too.

For all I slag him I do agree. The same is true with many in the team. To many high balls and when the ball is played to feet it is to often than the receiving player has his back to goal and has no out. Our passing does not flow forward. Its all to stilted

And why do we play long balls?! Nae midfield!

Correct, the defence has very little options in many cases

[Watty]

My Two Pence!

Jason Scotland is a lazy pr**k but he was the same with United, Coyle Knows his best position is behind a front two yet he still plays him upfront, the best spell of the game on saturday was when Coyle came on and put Scotland in behind but after ten mins he went back upfront again.
Far be it from me to tell him how to manage a team but playing a long ball game against a team full of six footers and over was hardly the best idea.
The prblem with Saints now is that Brown doesn't want to invest any more money,(ie on a decent manager and a couple of experienced players) he keeps a tight reign on the club and rightyfully so, but when your main income is your training pitch, and you dont seem to have any initiative to bring in more fans then sometimes being to cautious will be your undoing.
There is no point in having a fantastic 10,000 seater stadium when your in the second divison, which is where Saints will be if someone with more desire, drive and passion doesnt come in to change it.
Brown has done well but its time to move over and let someone else come in or start spending some of the cash he has made from all his house sales.
Ironic eh! attendances down because people who live in perth are actually from Edinburgh or Glasgow cause brown sold them a house. :shock:

Do you even know what you are talking about?
Main income is training pitch? at seventy pounds an hour, are you having a laugh?
As far as I know GS Brown don't even sell houses in Edinburgh or Glasgow!
Try getting a word in edge ways with your wife and you might not need to sound off on here with unsubstantiated rubbish.

I thionk he means people from Edin & Glas moving to Perth then commuting back to their workplace, thus meaning they are not Perth people therefore unlikely to go to Saints games.

[GOLDEN PLIMSOLES]

mmm

[scotpages]

He's our only player to score from open play in our last 5 games.

He's been our opening goalscorer in 7 games.

He's scored six of our last 12 goals.

Since late October he's scored more than the rest of the team put together.

Worth a place in the team, I'd say.

[GOLDEN PLIMSOLES]

I dont fancy biting on that one, you are right about the wife though i cant get a word in but then again your bird is the same. :wink:

[GOLDEN PLIMSOLES]

Do you even know what you are talking about? YES
Main income is training pitch? at seventy pounds an hour, are you having a laugh? NO IT IS

[stanley saint]

dobbie and milne up front , jas behind them





my 2 cents :D

[StDuncM]

If you watched the lads before the game on Saturday you would have noticed that Scotland was more concerned with adjusting his gloves than doing the warm up. He played as if wanted to be at home knitting!

[StDuncM]

dobbie and milne up front , jas behind them





my 2 cents :D

Dobbie looked so obese when he came on, that he has to be eating all the pies!

[stanley saint]

he could try and use his size to his advantage ,

mind you doesn't everyone put on a bit of weight over the festive season

[Ronaldo]

I think personally that Jason needs two quality forwards in front of him who do intelligent running for him (an out ball).
The problem is that when he gets the ball the opposition know he is the player to block because of his skills and ability to score and open the opposition up.
The Gretna manager (Rowan Alexander) said "if you get tight to Scotland and stop James in the air Saints have nothing else" and that's more the point than complaining about Jason. We need firstly other midfielders to open up the opposition's defence and supply the forwards (one a priority wide player) in addition to secondly getting another quality poaching striker in the absence of Peaso and Milne. Brighton of Clyde would do :) and OC/Jackson/Dobbie (2 of) back to the bench and Doris out on loan.

The 1st division has very well coached defences and the only way to beat that is to have two strikers and other players pushing forward at opposing defences. Milne and Scotland were the front two in the 5-1 defeats of Raith and Hamilton yet other players were pushing forward too to add to the attack with goals from Mensing, Stanic (a beauty), Stevenson and Sheerin (2). Accepting the loss of Milne there must be a confidence thing or change of tactics since the same players are there. The other players should help Jason or at least read his game. I think the Gretna manager summed up this change from earlier in the season where we were a real threat from other areas when he said "if you get tight to Scotland and stop James in the air Saints have nothing else". That doesn't sound like Jason's fault to me and it doesn't sound like the team from earlier in the season. How many of the team get into or near the opposition box in support? That's the problem. We also need a wide player too since there is no width to our game or the outlet of an out ball wide to start attacks from defence.

I think Jason is the most naturally gifted player we have. I'm always a bit wary when I hear British fans or media say a player is lazy. It seems what they want are people running around like blue arsed flies as long as they look as if they're busy. I heard Kenny Dalgleish called that and that he never played well for Scotland. The same tag has been given to Brazi.l :***: Personally I love watching these lazy samba slovenly good for nothing Brazilians rip the f'ck out of their opponents. :***: :D

[Dunfermline Saint]

Interview with Jason can be found here

http://www.socawarriors.net/headline_news2.htm

Sorry if this has already been posted. :!:

[blueheaven]

Could it be that he will now try to stay fit for the world cup to put himself in the window so to speak, and he wont go in too hard in case of sustaining a injury which might jeopardise his selection in the T & T squad?

I really can't see that being the case. Although he'll obviously want to steer clear of injury, it's in Scotland's interest to play well and stay at the peak of his form and sharpness so that he's ensured of his place at the World Cup in the 1st place, and also so that he plays well there if he gets his chance.

[HeronAddict]

Is it confirmed we bid 50,000 pounds for John Rankin? I thought it was just 40,000 pounds, the same as St Mirren except it was all up front and not in add-ons etc...

Last season, there's no doubt we didn't financially back the manager and it had dire consequences. This season we are paying players more again and we've seen an improvement. If the right player is available, I'm sure Geoff will do all he can to help Owen get him. It doesn't matter how much money we have though, we aren't an attractive proposition for players at the moment.

Sorry moved my post to the Geoff Brown thread becasue I thought it fitted better there. Yeah, I read that we had a 50,000 bud rejected for Rankin, although I can't for the life of me remember where!

Apparently they want 100,000 for him, and think they'll get it from someone in the SPL or championship. Rankin also doesn't want to go to another first division club.

[Cagey]

Is it confirmed we bid 50,000 pounds for John Rankin? I thought it was just 40,000 pounds, the same as St Mirren except it was all up front and not in add-ons etc...

Last season, there's no doubt we didn't financially back the manager and it had dire consequences. This season we are paying players more again and we've seen an improvement. If the right player is available, I'm sure Geoff will do all he can to help Owen get him. It doesn't matter how much money we have though, we aren't an attractive proposition for players at the moment.

I think you must be watching a different game from me Radford.

[chopper]

I think you must be watching a different game from me Radford.

More than likely - everyone tends to watch a different game from you Cagey :***: :wink:

Although I will disagree with Radford about us not financially backing the manager last year. As was stated on the Geoff Brown thread (I think), we were the only club outside the Old Firm and Gretna to spend money last year (35k on Michael Moore) and had the biggest squad and, arguable, the biggest wage budget in the division (Falkirk may have had a bigger budget) yet finished one place above the relegation zone.

Rankin is grossly overvalued by Ross County and if anyone pays more than 75k for a player in this league then they have been done IMO.

[TheBigCheese]

As was stated on the Geoff Brown thread (I think), we were the only club outside the Old Firm and Gretna to spend money last year (35k on Michael Moore)

Which we promptly got back meaning we spent nothing on players!

[Shaggy Jenkins]

Although I will disagree with Radford about us not financially backing the manager last year. As was stated on the Geoff Brown thread (I think), we were the only club outside the Old Firm and Gretna to spend money last year (35k on Michael Moore) and had the biggest squad and, arguable, the biggest wage budget in the division (Falkirk may have had a bigger budget) yet finished one place above the relegation zone.
Five teams were paying their players more than us last season, that came from Connolly himself. Sure we gave him 35,000 pounds to spend but then we wouldn't let him offer more than x pounds per week to players. We lost out on guys like Kirk Broadfoot and Darryl Duffy because we didn't come up with the readies. Connolly was hung out to dry by the board due to the financial restrictions placed on him, IMO anyway.

I would not disagree with that.

Even now certainly Hamilton (who are the highest payers) and Mirren are offering a better basic than us.....Apart from those few players who are er getting theirs topped up with a free 'bus' pass :wink:

[Hazel1884]

Even now certainly Hamilton (who are the highest payers) are offering a better basic than us.....

Don't get Radford started on how they get their money! :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Shaggy Jenkins]

Even now certainly Hamilton (who are the highest payers) are offering a better basic than us.....

Don't get Radford started on how they get their money! :wink: :wink: :wink:

:***: I just come in, light the touch paper and stand back :***:

[Shaggy Jenkins]

I'm not going put it on this forum but there's been a few mentions of Mr MacDonald's dealings on P&B. That's just where I've gathered most of the stuff from tbh.

I doubt St Mirren are paying more than us unfortunately but then I don't imagine Maxwell will be much worse off (i.e. he won't be) than he was here.

I'd suggest that Hamilton, Ross County and Dundee pay their players more than we do.

Ross County, that was the other one!!

I remember having a rant about it at the start of the season along the lines of pay the 4th highest wages, where do you end up?!......not an exact science I grant you

Dundee are in a similar position to us when we came down I recon, their wage bill will be high with prem contracts, but new players are on a very low basic. I think I heard no new players are getting more than the old

[blueheaven]

Five teams were paying their players more than us last season, that came from Connolly himself. Sure we gave him 35,000 pounds to spend but then we wouldn't let him offer more than x pounds per week to players. We lost out on guys like Kirk Broadfoot and Darryl Duffy because we didn't come up with the readies. Connolly was hung out to dry by the board due to the financial restrictions placed on him, IMO anyway.

Totally agree - it's fine giving a manager money to buy players with, but if he can't then match the wages on offer elsewhere then the players themselves won't sign. IMHO, in the current climate you can get by without ever having to actually buy players, because there are more of them than ever moving around under freedom of contract - but you can't hope to get the better ones if the offer on the table isn't up to standard.

I think it's obvious that this was the reason JC missed out on most of his first choice targets. I can remember when JC first arrived, he was having names thrown at him at a sponsor's night and he was saying this player and that player wasn't good enough to be at Saints - so he clearly had ambitions, initially, of bringing in a much higher standard of player than he actually did. In the end, many of the guys he brought in were pretty poor, but perhaps they just turned out to be the best he could afford (particularly as he barely had a squad at all when he first arrived, and ended up having to rush a lot of his signings in order to give us a team at all).

[Shaggy Jenkins]

Five teams were paying their players more than us last season, that came from Connolly himself. Sure we gave him 35,000 pounds to spend but then we wouldn't let him offer more than x pounds per week to players. We lost out on guys like Kirk Broadfoot and Darryl Duffy because we didn't come up with the readies. Connolly was hung out to dry by the board due to the financial restrictions placed on him, IMO anyway.

Totally agree - it's fine giving a manager money to buy players with, but if he can't then match the wages on offer elsewhere then the players themselves won't sign. IMHO, in the current climate you can get by without ever having to actually buy players, because there are more of them than ever moving around under freedom of contract - but you can't hope to get the better ones if the offer on the table isn't up to standard.

I think it's obvious that this was the reason JC missed out on most of his first choice targets. I can remember when JC first arrived, he was having names thrown at him at a sponsor's night and he was saying this player and that player wasn't good enough to be at Saints - so he clearly had ambitions, initially, of bringing in a much higher standard of player than he actually did. In the end, many of the guys he brought in were pretty poor, but perhaps they just turned out to be the best he could afford (particularly as he barely had a squad at all when he first arrived, and ended up having to rush a lot of his signings in order to give us a team at all).

Good post Exactly what happened IMO

[Saint Paul]

To get back on topic, a skillful player does not necesarilly mean a good player. John Paul McBride was considered by Nick Dasovic to be (and I quote !) "the most skilfull player at the club with a ball at his feet". I got this from him at the old GA swimming pool. He didn't turn out to be a great player for us, now did he ?

Scotland doesn't influence the play as I expected him to. Perhaps he is being played in the wrong position for him to do this, so perhaps some of the blame should lie with Coyle himself. When we got Scotland I thought that we had the piece that had been missing from our play for a few years. Someone in the Latapy mould that could link the midfield and attack with a bit of skill and flair. But what we have got is a lazy, workshy yet skillful player who looks intent on playing himself and forgetting about his team mates.

I can not argue with the stats about his scoring ratio etc. You can't complain about that, but it would be interesting to compare his goals to shots ratio. How many times does he try a shot from miles out, when a well placed pass would have been better ?

As has been said, Gretna knew that Scotland is the person that we play to, and shut him down which stopped us playing. People a couple of seasons ago knew that Latapy was the player to shut down for Falkirk yet he had the brain to get himself free and influence the play. That is the difference. Scotland may be skillful, but he does not have the football brain to go with it.

[Saintkev]

Scotland doesn't influence the play as I expected him to. Perhaps he is being played in the wrong position for him to do this, so perhaps some of the blame should lie with Coyle himself.

No midfield doesn't help matters!

[Watty]

If this has been posted before excuse me, but i've heard that Mr Scotland was fined two weeks wages after his inept performance versus Gretna. :shock:

[MUZZ]

If this has been posted before excuse me, but i've heard that Mr Scotland was fined two weeks wages after his inept performance versus Gretna. :shock:
That's a disgrace if it's true. :xalthough i'm not a big fan of his, u cant go about fining individuals for performances. the whole team were shocking. bad crack i agree

[Jimmy Wallace]

If this has been posted before excuse me, but i've heard that Mr Scotland was fined two weeks wages after his inept performance versus Gretna. :shock:

Can you elaborate on this. I find it hard to believe a player would be fined for an inept performance. A lack of discipline or something behind the scenes we don't know about, but a poor display?

[Watty]

If this has been posted before excuse me, but i've heard that Mr Scotland was fined two weeks wages after his inept performance versus Gretna. :shock:

Can you elaborate on this. I find it hard to believe a player would be fined for an inept performance. A lack of discipline or something behind the scenes we don't know about, but a poor display?

Not really thats as much as i heard from a mate, who'd heard from another mate. Quite a pish source I know but thought it was worth throwing into the ring.

[chopper]

There is no way a player will be fined any serious amounts of money for a poor performance - the SPFA would not allow it. If Scotland was fined, AND THIS IS A BIG IF, then it would have been for a breach of club discipline ie being out in places he shouldn't have been at certain times or through missing training to quote a couple of examples.

As another point if players were being fined for inept performances then there would be very few players around the country actually being paid, especially in and around the Perth area :***:

[dan the saint]

Check him out... He wants 15 goals this season!!....

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=124851585

[dan the saint]

hi 2 all i was talking 2 j scotland and k jack in that bar on friday nitem and scotland say at he maybe getting number 20 on his world cup top

[Kevin]

hi 2 all i was talking 2 j scotland and k jack in that bar on friday nitem and scotland say at he maybe getting number 20 on his world cup top

No more text speak please Dan!

[Ray Blair]

I understand that the club has a scoring system for players and that Jasons score for the Gretna game was very high!!
Why do people have to shoot down certain players?The guy is entertaining and scoring great goals!!!!

[Ray Blair]

High is good and its down to accurate passes etc etc

[Chansey]

Can anyone inform me about the conditions of his work permit? What if we get promoted, will he be free to play for us after being told he is not good enough to play in the SPL? or will we need to try and renew the permit?

I was also wondering what others felt was the likelyhood of him staying with saints, beyond this season. I understand he wants to be playing in the SPL, and signed a 2 year contract with us. But assuming we don't go up, do you think there will be many teams wanting to take him on? I really hope he stays, I have strong hopes of a very good team built around the man for next season.

[chopper]

Can anyone inform me about the conditions of his work permit? What if we get promoted, will he be free to play for us after being told he is not good enough to play in the SPL? or will we need to try and renew the permit?

His work permit will be for the duration of his contract of employment, which is 2 years. Whether he qualifies under the residency rules after that I don't know (is it still 5 years that he has to be employed???), but we would only have to apply for a new work permit if he agrees another contract and he doesn't qualify for residency.

[Kevin]

Can anyone inform me about the conditions of his work permit? What if we get promoted, will he be free to play for us after being told he is not good enough to play in the SPL? or will we need to try and renew the permit?

His work permit will be for the duration of his contract of employment, which is 2 years. Whether he qualifies under the residency rules after that I don't know (is it still 5 years that he has to be employed???), but we would only have to apply for a new work permit if he agrees another contract and he doesn't qualify for residency.

Similarly, as fas as I know, if he is transferred, the permit can only go with him if the club he is going to abide by the agreement that Saints made with the Home Office, that is to say, JS will start x%age of games per season

[chopper]

Similarly, as fas as I know, if he is transferred, the permit can only go with him if the club he is going to abide by the agreement that Saints made with the Home Office, that is to say, JS will start x%age of games per season

It would be decided by another tribunal similar to the ones for the Arabic nomads and ourselves, as to whether he would be "adding value" to the Scottish game. We don't have an agreement with the Home Office AFAIK to play him in a certain percentage of games, this (at least in previous years when it was reviewed annually) was used as a criteria as to whether to grant a renewal or not. IIRC the percentage was 75% of matches if from a "lower" ranked country and a lower figure for a higher ranked country providing the player had played so many international games.

I seem to remember Nick Dasovic being considered for a work permit every year, thank christ he was good enough to add something to our team when we played him!!!

[LewGti]

Get of the guys back.....He is great player and i think he would walk in to most SPL teams. He is entertaining to watch but more importanly he is scoring goals, so what is there not to like about him.... I for one hope he stays with us next season. Hope he bangs in a couple at Hamilton on Sat to shut up everyone thats moaning at him.....

[Chansey]

Get of the guys back.....He is great player and i think he would walk in to most SPL teams. He is entertaining to watch but more importanly he is scoring goals, so what is there not to like about him.... I for one hope he stays with us next season. Hope he bangs in a couple at Hamilton on Sat to shut up everyone thats moaning at him.....

But do you think we will beable to keep a hold of him? he would be an addition to most clubs in the SPL and we know thats where he wants to play...?

[Broggy Man]

Hasslebank did no back tracking for middlesburgh in Europe and notched im sure the fans were happy enough with that??

[garydavidson]

Jason would be doing so much better in the premier because he is a big attraction in this league and all the teams go out to shut him down, and break his legs so it seems some times!

[StDuncM]

Hasslebank did no back tracking for middlesburgh in Europe and notched im sure the fans were happy enough with that??

Agreed.

They are both lazy as **** but show flashes of sublime skill when it matters. Jimmy Floyd is in the Premiership though and Scotland is playing in Scotland!

[Broggy Man]

Hasslebank did no back tracking for middlesburgh in Europe and notched im sure the fans were happy enough with that??

Agreed.

They are both lazy as **** but show flashes of sublime skill when it matters. Jimmy Floyd is in the Premiership though and Scotland is playing in Scotland!

Dunc I was only making the point is we are happy to see Jason running at people. I for one couldnt give a monkeys if he tracks back or not as i want to see him attacking people

[templeofsaints]

Hasslebank did no back tracking for middlesburgh in Europe and notched im sure the fans were happy enough with that??

Agreed.

They are both lazy as **** but show flashes of sublime skill when it matters. Jimmy Floyd is in the Premiership though and Scotland is playing in Scotland!

Never mind I'm sure things will improve for Jimmy Floyd if he tries a bit harder :***: