#01 - 26/07/08 - Ross County (a) - Challenge Cup

[blueheaven]

Surprised there's no match thread yet, so thought I'd start it.

Team news for tomorrow? Predicted line-ups? I see the official site is saying Morris, Samuel and Anderson might make it, but James, Main and Moon are definitely out. Has any solid info been released on James' injury? How long are we expected to be without him?

Oh, and does anyone think we'll have a left-back?

C'mon you Saint(ee)s.

[templeofsaints]

I can confidently predict we'll have someone wearing the no3 shirt but Rod only knows if he'll be a left back (or even someone with "left-back" on his dodgy CV as per Wed night).

Looking forward to the game though - Dingwall is a good day out and if the sun's shining it'll make it all the more fun to slag of Dyron !!!!

[Perth-Saint]

Anyone think Dyron Daal will end up scoring tomorrow? I fear so;).

Should be a good game mind you!

[soulfulsaint]

Anyone think Dyron Daal will end up scoring tomorrow? I fear so;).

Should be a good game mind you!

Yes he's playing left back for County - I predict a spectacular O.G.

[Alan Main FanClub]

Does anyone know if there are seats still available on the 208 bus? I thought I was working, but I'm not and I am not getting my new car until Monday.

[1884]

The Jeanfield 208 bus is full.

[THE LARK SAINT]

Does anyone know if there are seats still available on the 208 bus? I thought I was working, but I'm not and I am not getting my new car until Monday.
not sure if there are spaces left, but the muirton park travel club have a bus leaving at 11.00pm.tel:442022 for more details if thats any help to you.

[Moray Blue]

I travelled up from Perth to Elgin this afternoon and was caught in quite a long tailback because of roadworks (about a 20 minute delay) at the Blair Atholl junction on the A9.

It might be worth checking before you set off if these are still there in the morning.

[SaintSam1884]

The radio was reporting delays as long as 40 minutes. The A9 is a nightmare.

[Radford 72]

They supposedly lifted the roadworks last night and having checked the Traffic Scotland website, there doesn't seem to be any problems with the A9 today. A look at the webcams shows it to be dry as well.

[O'Rourke]

Methinks a torrid afternoon awaits the unsuspecting Perth folk.

Beware the one they call "Dynamite" Dyron Daal.....

[garydavidson]

I think we are going to suffer quite a defeat today, but it means we can concentrate on the league and other such excuses.

[john1962]

On the Radio for us that cant travel.

[David]

the muirton park travel club have a bus leaving at 11.00pm.
That's hardcore, going that late at night!

[O'Rourke]

Pretty sure the ever dependable Stuart Golabeck will be playing left-back for Ross County today. He's about Goran's age but will probably turn in a MotM performance today! :roll:

[THE LARK SAINT]

That's hardcore, going that late at night!

Sorry meant am of course

[THE LARK SAINT]

Anyone think Dyron Daal will end up scoring tomorrow? I fear so;).

Should be a good game mind you!
I bet you £500 that Daal does NOT score today!!!

[rammsteinally]

he might be out on the town later so you never know

[THE LARK SAINT]

he might be out on the town later so you never know

well he certainly will not score a goal today!!

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Afternoon all. Thank feck for the internet. Am sitting here in a hot and very humid Bangkok, (30 degrees) it,s 8.45 pm and I,ve had another great day. Golf in the morning and a B-B-Q all afternoon and into the evening,but now to the important stuff.Am going to follow the game on WAP.Have we got anyone at the game to keep us updated?? or are we going to have to rely on the BBc sport site.Any team news yet????
Lets get it right up them and hopefully start as we mean to go on.
It,s great to get going again.....

Come on You Saints....

[Jamie_Beatson]

Saints line up:

McLean
Irvine, Rutkiewicz, McCaffrey, Anderson
Hardie, Millar, Craig, Sheerin
Holmes, Milne.

Subs: Samuel, McDonald, Jackson, Swankie, Kelly (gk).

Live commentary available on BBC Radio Scotland.

[Dunfermline Saint]

McLean
Irvine
Anderson
Millar
Rutkiewicz
McCaffrey
Craig
Hardie
Holmes
Milne
Sheerin

Subs:
Samuel
MacDonald
Jackson
Swankie
Kelly

Copied from SSN.

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Line up is...McLean , Irvine,Ando, Millar, Rusty, Caff,Craig , Hardie, Holmes, Milne, Sheerin.

Subs.Samuel,Jacko,Swankie, McDonald, Kelly

Too quick for me boys....

[THE LARK SAINT]

Afternoon all. Thank feck for the internet. Am sitting here in a hot and very humid Bangkok, (30 degrees) it,s 8.45 pm and I,ve had another great day. Golf in the morning and a B-B-Q all afternoon and into the evening,but now to the important stuff.Am going to follow the game on WAP.Have we got anyone at the game to keep us updated?? or are we going to have to rely on the BBc sport site.Any team news yet????
Lets get it right up them and hopefully start as we mean to go on.
It,s great to get going again.....

Come on You Saints....
mclean,anderson,irvine,miller, rusty,caff,craig,hardie,holmer,savo,peanut. subs jacko,sammy,peaso,swanks trialist g.k

[Dunfermline Saint]

Samuel on for Milne

[Jamie_Beatson]

Samuel on for Savo. They reckon it is a groin injury.

[THE LARK SAINT]

mclean,anderson,irvine,miller, rusty,caff,craig,hardie,holmer,savo,peanut. subs jacko,sammy,peaso,swanks trialist g.k

sammy on for savo

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Here we go again...Gutted for Savo. Hope it,s not too serious..:(

[Jamie_Beatson]

Anderson off for someone - must be an attacking player though - another injury apparently.

[Dunfermline Saint]

Anderson injured now. That's more worrying than Savo's as defence isn't somewehere where we have great numbers.

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

What the fecks going on????Two injuries in the first 30 minutes of the new season and we aint got a huge squad this term.....

[RJ1980]

Just to make sure you are all aware, the game is live on the internet:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/tv_and_radio/6354443.stm

[Moray Blue]

Just to make sure you are all aware, the game is live on the internet:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/tv_and_radio/6354443.stm

Also available here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/radioscotland/

[Moray Blue]

1-0 County

[california_saintee]

Oh bloody hell, another epic start to a season. :-(

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

OOPS!!!!!

Bollocks:cry:

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

At least the coagies are getting beat as well now:***:

[inex]

THats it then

[Moray Blue]

2-0. Caught on the break.

[inex]

Couldnt have really got a worse start to the season?

[TheBigCheese]

Couldnt have really got a worse start to the season?

May I be the first to say it's a diddy cup that we didn't want to win anyway.

[inex]

Sounds like a pretty ordinary performance listening to the radio. McCaffrey messed up pretty bad for the 2nd goal from the description.

Couple of injuries dont help either with such a small squad, particularly in defence.

[SPACEMAN]

at first i was gutted about not going today, now i am pretty happy about it.

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Get ****ing stuck in Saints........

Coagies now 2-0 down.....

[RJ1980]

Doesn't sound too good frmo the radio report.

Aside from defensive blunders mentioned, it is worrying to hear the radio summariser commenting on the lack of hunger being shown by saints players including Swankie and Samuel.

You would have hoped that the Saints players would have been as up for these matches as we appear to be.

[inex]

Samuel scores

[Moray Blue]

2-1.

[RJ1980]

Although, I note that Samuel has just scored.

Knock down from Holmes and "great finish from Samuel".

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Now Really Get Into Them Saints.....

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

All done...Well thats one distraction out of the way...Bring on the Livi and lets just hope this performance was a minor blip.:)

[Tarvie]

Ahhh Crap, well I guess that signals the start of the doom and gloom for another season :cry: Roll on the distraction of ice hockey in September!!!

:wink:

[angussaint]

What's this same old shite start to the season by saints, We need to get this defence sorted out or go nowhere this season, The scum seem to sign people evey week same with some of the other 1st Division sides, Is Del looking for the perfect player or what?, He seemingly has contacts Murray Park & England surely we could get one of the fringe players from Ibrox, Steve Lennon has been outstanding for Gers last season or Dean Furman for 6 months, we need something fast!!!!!

[john1962]

What's this same old shite start to the season by saints, We need to get this defence sorted out or go nowhere this season, The scum seem to sign people evey week same with some of the other 1st Division sides, Is Del looking for the perfect player or what?, He seemingly has contacts Murray Park & England surely we could get one of the fringe players from Ibrox, Steve Lennon has been outstanding for Gers last season or Dean Furman for 6 months, we need something fast!!!!!

I take it you were there?

[garydavidson]

I knew we would get beat but the thing was county were not even that great. we kept lumping the ball up the park hardly strung more than three pass together the whole game. no players showed hunger until jacko came on.

Their first goal was poor ball from the left to the right and the guy stuck it back in for a tap in. goal keeper is massivly short in confidence and rusty and hardie had a right go at him in the first half.

craig played left back while irvine was some form of centre midfield.

their second was just as poor a long ball up front and McCaffery went to head it and missed it totally leaving the guy to slot past the keeper who had no chance really.

samuel had some nice runs skinned four guys before finding his options were all gone and he lost the ball. when we did stick more than three passes together there were just no options.

looks like the fears of holmes were correct and we just lumped it up the park he did win most of the headers but had no one to head it to.

[mainstand]

craig played left back while irvine was some form of centre midfield.


According to the radio Irvine was playing at left back.

[garydavidson]

as far as i could see it was craig. they must have got the hair cuts mixed up. but im sure it was craig.

[angussaint]

I take it you were there?

No but having seen a couple of pre-season games the defense is sh*t.

[john1962]

No but having seen a couple of pre-season games the defense is sh*t.

Its obviously not as good as it should be but I am always amazed how people who haven't been to the game overreact and sound like they have written the season off because we have lost one game.

[john1962]

According to the radio Irvine was playing at left back.

Guy on the radio didn't seem to have a clue. He had Irvine at Left Back then in the middle then at right back.

[garydavidson]

craig was left of defence with ando right and mccaffery and rusty in the centre.

sheerin started on the left of mid and ended up in the middle.

[poang]

Sounds like a fairly dreadful game. I was really close to making the long trip but decided against it at the last minute.

And it said on the radio during the game that saints fans would likely be stuck up their for ages since the A9s gonna be closed for hours after a major accident (FIVE people killed!)

[garydavidson]

aye the police told everyone to go down towards nairn and down that way to avoid the closure on the road. I think the accident happened just before half time so gave the police and announcer time to inform everyone.

certainly was a dreadful game at least it was only £13 and nice and sunny.

[Emma]

I had a bet on saints to win 3-2.....

[SPACEMAN]

I had a bet on saints to win 3-2.....

never bet on your own team emma, just about always get let down!

[ancientsaint]

Oh dear....Del hoped the new training system would result in Saints "hitting the ground and running" well up at Dingwall we witnessed Saints hitting the ground and falling flat on their faces.......Mclean has no confidence.....Craig at Left back ...Caff and Rusty at centre and Ando at right back....midfield of Irvine..Hardie and Millar...Sheerin between midfield and left wing....Holmes and Savo up front.......Savo replaced by Samuel...Ando by Swankie and later Sheerin by Jacko.

We were pulled apart by some slick County play and once again the defense let us down...never mind looking for a left back we need a total overhaul....no one talks to each other-no one knows whats happening....passing goes astray too much.....in all we were CRAP and no one can deny we have problems now.....cant see what Del can do with this crowd at the moment....but i hope they make me eat humble pie and get their acts together.

Samuels goal was well taken -but we need a rocket placed up his arse for 90 plus minutes and in the right direction towards the opposing goals

Nice to be able to stand on a terrace behind barriers tho.....so look forward to Stenhousemuir ( in the CIS cup that is-not the 2nd division !!).

[Indicator]

Its obviously not as good as it should be but I am always amazed how people who haven't been to the game overreact and sound like they have written the season off because we have lost one game.

Nobody said the season was a write off. You obviously couldn't wait to be the first one to complain about somebody being dissatisfied with today's performance. Fact is we're out of a competition after the first 90 minutes of a new season. The guy is entitled to be disappointed.

I wasn't there but looking at later posts it appears that we have been way, way over optimistic about the enthusiasm of this relatively newish' squad. For instance are we really going to go back to the route one long ball to the big front man. I would have hoped that we could have stuck with the passing game that suits us so well. However what worries me more (if this is so) was the apparent lack of commitment.

[mainstand]

Nobody said the season was a write off. You obviously couldn't wait to be the first one to complain about somebody being dissatisfied with today's performance. Fact is we're out of a competition after the first 90 minutes of a new season. The guy is entitled to be disappointed.

I wasn't there but looking at later posts it appears that we have been way, way over optimistic about the enthusiasm of this relatively newish' squad. For instance are we really going to go back to the route one long ball to the big front man. I would have hoped that we could have stuck with the passing game that suits us so well. However what worries me more (if this is so) was the apparent lack of commitment.

Don't waste it all on teh first match! You'll have plenty more weeks to have a wee moan on a Saturday night :-)


Yes it is disappointing but I would rather go out of this cup and start well in the league.

[john1962]

Nobody said the season was a write off. You obviously couldn't wait to be the first one to complain about somebody being dissatisfied with today's performance. Fact is we're out of a competition after the first 90 minutes of a new season. The guy is entitled to be disappointed.

I wasn't there but looking at later posts it appears that we have been way, way over optimistic about the enthusiasm of this relatively newish' squad. For instance are we really going to go back to the route one long ball to the big front man. I would have hoped that we could have stuck with the passing game that suits us so well. However what worries me more (if this is so) was the apparent lack of commitment.

I dont have a problem with those at the game having a go and ripping the team to shreds if they feel it is necessary I do have a problem with people who didnt see a minute of the game making comments that can only be guesswork. would you say a film is shit if you didnt see it?

I am disappointed too but didn't see the game so I am not placed to throw my toys out of the pram.

[Teamwork]

its not overall been a great pre-season, the general optimism at the end of last season appears to be vanishing from the support, the comments about lack of commitment are worrying for sure, i,m dreading the Livvy game now, Ross County are surely an early season bet to take the drop and the have beaten us, not great, in fact, a worry.

Oh god, here we go again, best squad on paper in the division, and under achieving before a ball has been kicked in the league.

And before some of you lay into me for being negative, look at our pre season !!! not one clean sheet !! its a worry, a real worry, i thought this was our year, we still have work to do.

[Indicator]

I dont have a problem with those at the game having a go and ripping the team to shreds if they feel it is necessary I do have a problem with people who didnt see a minute of the game making comments that can only be guesswork. would you say a film is shit if you didnt see it?

I am disappointed too but didn't see the game so I am not placed to throw my toys out of the pram.

I would feel that I could comment upon the opinions of those who had been at the game. (Likewise a movie) Without personally 'slagging' the team. The general opinion seems to be that it was a poor match and we were pretty dire. The general sense of optimism I saw building as we approached the start of the new season was always going to lead to disappointment if we started in our usual fashion.

I hope you're not suggesting it was MY toys that left the pram. I've only got the one so have to be very careful where it goes. :wink:

[Radford 72]

Not a massive surprise today. We started decent enough at the back but with two guys in the full back positions who'd rather be elsewhere on the pitch, we are woefully short in that area.

Thought first half was pretty much as even as you can get with both 'keepers making one good save and then County nearly scoring with a goalmouth scramble in the dying seconds.

We didn't look in a lot of trouble but a simple ball over the back and once again no one does enough to prevent the cross coming into the box and, as at Inverness, their player is allowed to put it back across goal and Winters bundles it over the line. Less said about the second goal the better but an absolute nightmare from McCaffrey.

Disppointing attitude from a few Saints players (and maybe not those you'd expect, Martin) after that but Holmes continued to battle away and set up Sammy twice, one of the chances which he took.

Problems are clear for everyone to see... Over to you Derek!

[StDuncM]

The league is what it is all about. Cups are just a distraction. We will be up next week so bring 'em on!

[sign dave]

does anyone think maybe us and dundee deliberatly through the games away today, purely for the benefit of the league?

[O'Rourke]

does anyone think maybe us and dundee deliberatly through the games away today, purely for the benefit of the league?

threw

no

[StDuncM]

does anyone think maybe us and dundee deliberatly through the games away today, purely for the benefit of the league?


Thats the spirit!

[sign dave]

well who would have bet both saints and dundee (two title favourites) to lose in 1st round of cc?

[HertsSaintee]

The really worrying thing for me after today is remembering that last week, the Management team came out and stated that they "weren't worried" that we'd managed to ship 4 goals in two consecutive friendlies, as well as the 1 caused by mind numbing defensive suicide against Montrose. "OK, they're just friendlies" we said, but the grumbles had already started. Then we lost another 3 against Burnley - simple goals caused by allowing the opposition to get crosses in, and not marking tightly enough in the middle. But it was a better performance coming forward, and they were a better team than us anyway, so we thought. We lose another 2 disgraceful goals in a similar manner today to give up our trophy in the meekest way you'll ever see. Well, Managment team, here's a suggestion for you....

WORRY.

Worry a lot, because if we don't learn how to defend our goal in the next 7 days, we will find ourselves 3 points off the top come 4.45 next Saturday, then more than likely 6 points the following week. Hardly "hitting the ground running". Quite simply this team is bleeding goals, and losing, like winning, becomes a habit. The keeper has no confidence (anyone else hear McInnes screaming at players to tell McLean to "come off his f*****g line"?), and time and again the County strikers were able to burst through between two defenders unchallenged. We suffered against an opposition who hassled and closed us down out of the game today, just like Montrose did in the friendly when we couldn't deal with it - and what do we do when they have the ball? Yep, stand off them as usual. And can someone explain to me why we played the long punt game from the start today? Did the manager think our midfield was too weak to control the game if we played through them today?

It's been a long, long journey back after that.

[Radford 72]

It's been a long, long journey back after that.
At least trying to figure out how to get home without diversion signs stopped me getting pissed off with the performance. Pretty much agree with what you've said though.

I was worried before the game but when I saw guys like Boyd, Strachan and Lawson in their side I became more confident. When a group of more talented players (which we have) loses to a team with less ability, it's either down to attitude or management, or a mixture of both as was the case today.

I thought Livi would be dire but by all accounts they played well against Stranraer today. Some have said we shouldn't worry about the friendlies and now no doubt it will be wrong to worry about the Challenge Cup. When is the time to start worrying?

[StDuncM]

At least trying to figure out how to get home without diversion signs stopped me getting pissed off with the performance. Pretty much agree with what you've said though.

I was worried before the game but when I saw guys like Boyd, Strachan and Lawson in their side I became more confident. When a group of more talented players (which we have) loses to a team with less ability, it's either down to attitude or management, or a mixture of both as was the case today.

I thought Livi would be dire but by all accounts they played well against Stranraer today. Some have said we shouldn't worry about the friendlies and now no doubt it will be wrong to worry about the Challenge Cup. When is the time to start worrying?

In November. If we are not in the hunt at this time then I will have some worry lines.

Keep the faith.

[john1962]

I would feel that I could comment upon the opinions of those who had been at the game. (Likewise a movie) Without personally 'slagging' the team. The general opinion seems to be that it was a poor match and we were pretty dire. The general sense of optimism I saw building as we approached the start of the new season was always going to lead to disappointment if we started in our usual fashion.

I hope you're not suggesting it was MY toys that left the pram. I've only got the one so have to be very careful where it goes. :wink:


I agree entirely with what you are saying but the comments I spoke of came before most of those at the game came on to the forum.

And definitely not your toy ***

[St Mikey]

I'm glad we are out that cup. Fantastic winning it but as I have said to my mates I don't want another excellent cup run and crap league finish.

One crap cup down, CIS next. League is our priority with Scottish Cup an option.

We need to stop conceeding goals. I know its obvious but we have conceeded too many in pre-season and again 2 against a team that should be no where near us on a competitive level. They are a good team but not SPL potential, FFS they signed Saag Daal!

Lets get a grip, as a mate said, maybe all the team needs a slap in the pus with a kipper before the game starts to make them ready for it.....................

[R.B.B:- Adz]

i remember warning everyone a couple of months back that county have put together a strong team. they're not world beaters but have the ability to cause problems especially on their home patch. today was always going to be difficult for a variety of reasons. although it may start alarm bells ringing, its only the challenge cup. the league is what we all want so until we are sitting 14 points off the pace we should not be worrying. Del will have his left back wrapped up soon enough, Jody will be back soon making us tick and you will see a more settled team starting with livingston, when we pick up our first win and the team settles we will pick up some speed.

[templeofsaints]

Can't disagree with the comments - we were pretty poor today and didn't play like a team. County took their chances and though they were soft goals to lose from our point of view we also had enough chances to win the game and the strikers turned all shy.

McLean lacks confidence but Del was shouting at him to come off his line every time County came forward. He made a couple of decent saves but from the games I've seen (Montrose, today and Burnley) I'm not sure he's better than Cuthbert - albeit he has youth on his side a bit.

Pluses in midfield were Millar's performance - definitely warming to him. Thought Hardie had a decent game but his attitude once we were 2 down stank - started to avoid chasing the ball or harassing the opposition. Holmes did fine up front but again every bloody ball was being targeted at him. Samuel scored a good goal but still looks slow.

We have to get a left-back in next week and Del needs to read the riot act to some of the squad. Too many of them have been reading their own hype. They're not that good.

[Scobby_SJFC]

aww what a nightmare day for me!!

what turned out to be a 12 hour trip for me due to the crash on the A9, and not knowing the roads around there what so ever, I went via fort agusta and fort william down to glasgow!!

Matched on the pitch by some appauling football, we didnt deserve anything out of the game, and county deserved their win too many players out of position, and not really being interested.

[Cagey]

We have more midfiealders than the rest of the league put together but he plays Irvine in midfield. Did he take a chamce on Anderson at right back because he saw how crap Irvine was on wednesday.

Did not want to have a go at McLean before seeing him but Levein tried 3 or 4 goalies last season whilst Mclean was on the books & didn`t play him. Does that not tell the story. I don`t think it is lack of confidence. It is lack of ability & mobility.

Same old same old depressing Saturday night. Roll on the close season.

[macmerrysaint]

This defeat might be the kick up the backside the team needs. Last season we drew the first five games and lost the sense of urgency that is required to win games. At least now the squad and manager should be in no doubt about what is required.
Although I was not at the game today I believe Ross County are a strong side who will be challenging at the end of the season. Losing to them away is no disgrace. We can and will improve.

Keep the Faith

[SaintlyScott]

Agree with macmerrysaint, I think we were maybe being a tad too confident and the players must surely know now that they aint going to win this league by just turning up.

We looked very disjointed today, County broke through the middle of our team on numerous occassions. I thought McCaffery was particularly poor, his distribution is awful, and McLean just looks a bag of nerves. Positives can be Holmes looked decent upfront and chris Millar looks awesome in the 3 games ive seen of him.

Was a trek and a half to Dingwall, good day out, nice weather, sh*te result!

Keep the Faith!!

[Al C]

Jody will be back soon making us tick.

Anyone know what is wrong with Morris? Presumably an injury but is it serious?

[monkfish]

I'd be most worried that the players looked like they couldn't be bothered, obviously think they can walk the league. Hopefully that's a wake up call.

I actually think midfield was more of a problem than defence yesterday, as they couldn't keep the ball for more than 30 seconds.

[MUZZ]

how many saintees travelled north?

[Southpaw]

how many saintees travelled north?

I was standing to the left of the goal but most of the Saintees were standing in a heap to the right so it wasn't easy to tell. There were some in the stand too. Maybe 275-300 in total??

[jez1971]

As a "local" Saints fan living near Dingwall I was really looking forward to seeing the new look team and the new signings turn on a show. What a disappointment!!

I agree with the majority of the comments regarding the defence but what also annoyed me was the lack of fight when we went behind. Too many players were shirking tackles and treating the game like a pre season friendly. I know the league is the priority but surely we could have expected more of a "defence" of our only trophy in years!???

Most of our locals think County are world - beaters but I think it's too difficult to judge how good they are as we were so poor yesterday.

Totally agree with the comments regarding attitude - it's time Del kicked some a***s before we end up playing our yearly "catch up" with the other contenders.

[sign dave]

maybe after savo and andos injuries, players began to feel uncomfortable put in a challenge,

county were out to hack and disable us!!! :)

[Rodgers]

their performance was shocking, no one really looked interested, even our mr hardie at one point looked like he had given up.

i gave MOM to holmes because we went back to hooffing the ball up to him and he won every header i saw him challange for and even managed to head it onto one of our players, so that was a plus, thought millar done well but the defence is causing the problems bigtime.

the sooner we get back main and he can sort it out, i know that if the defence arnt confident on their keeper they wont perform as well.

[sign dave]

youd think if defenders knew they had a weak keeper that make try better to stop shots hitting at him!

[mainstand]

youd think if defenders knew they had a weak keeper that make try better to stop shots hitting at him!

That is a bit harsh to say that the lad is a weak keeper, Was the keeper at fault for either of the goals yesterday??

The defence should be trying to stop shots irrespective of who there keeper is.

[sign dave]

That is a bit harsh to say that the lad is a weak keeper, Was the keeper at fault for either of the goals yesterday??

The defence should be trying to stop shots irrespective of who there keeper is.


that wasnt a dig at mclean, it was a response to the quote above mine, talking about how defenders play worse if there keeper isnt confident, i was just saying i thought it be the opposite, id be trying to help any less advantaged players and become stronger, not get all confused and cause mistakes

[Invernessaint]

Yesterday was a total disaster on so many fronts but most of it has all been said already so far re defence, tactics, goalkeeping etc. I was also incredibly disappointed with our overall fitness levels - County ran us ragged (and I dont think they are too great a side) with their pace and stamina - a few of our players looked as if they had just consumed a 3 course indian eat all you can special just before kick off! In all honesty when you take into account the problems observed yesterday this is the worst prepared Saints side I have seen in years on the eve of a new season. Only plus points awarded to Millar who was the stand out player on the pitch and Holmes who did exactly what was asked of him but no one else was reading the knock down script (except the County defenders). McLean in goal is a signing bloomer - he was not getting a look in at Tannadice and surely someone did not do enough homework on this one. He may be young but he is also pants.

Work ahead of Del for next week (but he knows that himself) - I think it will take us 3 or 4 games to sort this mess out and that is where IMO the Challenge Cup can provide competetive matches. Really worried ahead of the Livi game - think they will turn us over really easily.

[mainstand]

. I was also incredibly disappointed with our overall fitness levels - County ran us ragged (and I dont think they are too great a side) with their pace and stamina - a few of our players looked as if they had just consumed a 3 course indian eat all you can special just before kick off! In all honesty when you take into account the problems observed yesterday this is the worst prepared Saints side I have seen in years on the eve of a new season.

If I had a pound for every time taht a fan of a losing side made a statement like this then I would be as rich as soulful saint. :-)

Do you honestly think that the players who are being checked by Dundee University as far as fitness levels are concerned are unfit.

As for other comments on McLean give the laddie a break!!! He has changed Club, he is still young, especially as far as goalies are concerned and he is a Scotland internationalist, 3 things that you and I are not. Saw him playing for Dundee Utd on Setanta, I think it was last season, and he showed up well. He is not a bad keeper but is maybe going through a bad patch,

[andrew]

I was camping up Aviemore way, so an hour's journey seemed like a good idea.
What a disappointment! Saints looked like they'd never met each other before and, although Holmes did what he is there for, the high balls meant very, very little passing and movement. I blame McInnes for the second goal as he told Millar to go up and Caff to get back. Caff let whining, dirty, niggling, cheating Higgins through for 2-0. It was interesting sitting so close to Del and the Doc - they were going mental. Del was screaming at McLean minutes after he shouted 'Dinky. Tell him to come out.' He just wouldn't let it go until he got the message. What really concerns me is that this group of players have been together more or less for ages now. None of them has just arrived, and it isn't September or October. I'd have thought they might have got to know each other even a wee bit by now.
McLean was poor, Swankie gave up, and at one point Higgins was on his arse surrounded by four of our players - guess who got to the ball first, and got it to a team mate from his sitting position?! Not much work ethic there. Same old story on our right too. Their no. 11 in acres of space every time they get possession. Where does Irvine think he's meant to be when he's playing at no. 2?
As for the tired comments about the challenge cup, look at the goals scored by others in division 1 - Airdrie 3, Queen of the South 5, Livingston 4 and Dunfermline 3 - all against lower league sides mind. At least Dundee lost as well. But how d'you think Queens and Livi players are feeling just now compared to ours? We lacked confidence.
I do hope that we can get a grip on this, because, as many have said on here numerous times, you don't win this division by being nice or by sitting off your opponents. Also, my daughter thought Saints looked rubbish. No offence to any girls on here, but if it's that obvious to one girl who doesn't know much about the game!
However, it's one game and I can assure all of you that the two D's noticed everything that everyone has said in this match thread. That's the easy bit. I just hope they can find some answers before we end up playing catch up again. I think if we do win this division this season that it ain't gonna be easy.

[Invernessaint]

If I had a pound for every time taht a fan of a losing side made a statement like this then I would be as rich as soulful saint. :-)

Do you honestly think that the players who are being checked by Dundee University as far as fitness levels are concerned are unfit.

As for other comments on McLean give the laddie a break!!! He has changed Club, he is still young, especially as far as goalies are concerned and he is a Scotland internationalist, 3 things that you and I are not. Saw him playing for Dundee Utd on Setanta, I think it was last season, and he showed up well. He is not a bad keeper but is maybe going through a bad patch,

Sorry MS, checked by Dundee University or not they looked unfit and well off the pace to me. Re keepers situation - if we are needing a keeper to act as cover to our first choice when injured we need someone we can rely on, not some nervy keeper who needs games to bed in.

[dave mc]

I was camping up Aviemore way, so an hour's journey seemed like a good idea.
What a disappointment! Saints looked like they'd never met each other before and, although Holmes did what he is there for, the high balls meant very, very little passing and movement. I blame McInnes for the second goal as he told Millar to go up and Caff to get back. Caff let whining, dirty, niggling, cheating Higgins through for 2-0. It was interesting sitting so close to Del and the Doc - they were going mental. Del was screaming at McLean minutes after he shouted 'Dinky. Tell him to come out.' He just wouldn't let it go until he got the message. What really concerns me is that this group of players have been together more or less for ages now. None of them has just arrived, and it isn't September or October. I'd have thought they might have got to know each other even a wee bit by now.
McLean was poor, Swankie gave up, and at one point Higgins was on his arse surrounded by four of our players - guess who got to the ball first, and got it to a team mate from his sitting position?! Not much work ethic there. Same old story on our right too. Their no. 11 in acres of space every time they get possession. Where does Irvine think he's meant to be when he's playing at no. 2?
As for the tired comments about the challenge cup, look at the goals scored by others in division 1 - Airdrie 3, Queen of the South 5, Livingston 4 and Dunfermline 3 - all against lower league sides mind. At least Dundee lost as well. But how d'you think Queens and Livi players are feeling just now compared to ours? We lacked confidence.
I do hope that we can get a grip on this, because, as many have said on here numerous times, you don't win this division by being nice or by sitting off your opponents. Also, my daughter thought Saints looked rubbish. No offence to any girls on here, but if it's that obvious to one girl who doesn't know much about the game!
However, it's one game and I can assure all of you that the two D's noticed everything that everyone has said in this match thread. That's the easy bit. I just hope they can find some answers before we end up playing catch up again. I think if we do win this division this season that it ain't gonna be easy.

Not surprised if your daughter ken's feck all about the game if "daddy" tells her no.2 must play right back!!What a fud!!I take it you played rugger at school!!

[SaintSam1884]

Number 7 was playing left back too!

[mainstand]

Sorry MS, checked by Dundee University or not they looked unfit and well off the pace to me.

IMO You ask fans of every team that got beat yesterday and they will come out with the same resposnse. If you measured the fitness of teh 2 squads of players I doubt if there would be much difference. The saints players were even in for fitness checks during teh break.

[dave mc]

Number 7 was playing left back too!

Beggars belief Sam,don't it!Without being sexist, you know yer football,within reason, mind!!

[andrew]

Not surprised if your daughter ken's feck all about the game if "daddy" tells her no.2 must play right back!!What a fud!!I take it you played rugger at school!!

Hey davemc (and saintsam)! You know what I mean. Old timers like me still associate no. 2 with right back. And I'm not alone in noting that Irvine has a tendency to drift. :-) Perhaps I should consult with you before I post, lest I incur your wrath again. Yeah, maybe you can proof read (or is that an incorrect phrase?) whatever I want to say. As for being a fud, well, I think your post says rather more about you than it does about me :)

[dave mc]

Hey davemc (and saintsam)! You know what I mean. Old timers like me still associate no. 2 with right back. And I'm not alone in noting that Irvine has a tendency to drift. :-) Perhaps I should consult with you before I post, lest I incur your wrath again. Yeah, maybe you can proof read (or is that an incorrect phrase?) whatever I want to say. As for being a fud, well, I think your post says rather more about you than it does about me :)

Believe me Andy, there's not many older than me! Irvine was playing no2,but was in midfield,it wasnae rocket science,as for the fud comment, i apologise if offence was caused,but it does ma nut it,comments like that!It's obvious you've never played fitba' at a decent level!

[templeofsaints]

Irvine was in midfield to start with but replaced Ando at right-back when Ando went off.

[SaintSam1884]

Hey davemc (and saintsam)! You know what I mean. Old timers like me still associate no. 2 with right back. And I'm not alone in noting that Irvine has a tendency to drift. :-) Perhaps I should consult with you before I post, lest I incur your wrath again. Yeah, maybe you can proof read (or is that an incorrect phrase?) whatever I want to say. As for being a fud, well, I think your post says rather more about you than it does about me :)

I was only teasing. Gary Irvine always wears number two and normally plays right back. The left back normally wears number three, but I suppose Craig wasn't quite ready to part with his flouncy white-boot-wearing-attacking-midfielder-wannabeness for the day. :D

[andrew]

Irvine was in midfield to start with but replaced Ando at right-back when Ando went off.

Thanks temple, that's what I was talkin' about :D
davemc all I can say is that your nut is easily done in :***: no offence to you of course :wink:

[Jings]

comments like that!It's obvious you've never played fitba' at a decent level!

If we had to play fitba' at a decent level to have an opinion; this forum would have died a death long ago.
Remember that many a good manager and coach never reached the dizzy heights that you obviously did dave.

[mainstand]

Believe me Andy, there's not many older than me! Irvine was playing no2,but was in midfield,it wasnae rocket science,as for the fud comment, i apologise if offence was caused,but it does ma nut it,comments like that!It's obvious you've never played fitba' at a decent level!

As one of those taht have never played at a decent level, coudl you tell us what giddy heights of football stardom you reached dave Mc??

[SingaporeSaint]

Believe me Andy, there's not many older than me! Irvine was playing no2,but was in midfield,it wasnae rocket science,as for the fud comment, i apologise if offence was caused,but it does ma nut it,comments like that!It's obvious you've never played fitba' at a decent level!

Dear Dave Mc,

I got as far as Stanley U16's then reached the dizzy heights of a semi final in the Glasgow Colleges and Universties league. Is that a decent enough level to be allowed to continue to post, please let me know.

[staypress]

let's not get carried away with this - I don't remember Hamilton challenging for the Challenge Cup last season...weren't they punted at home in the first round by lower-league Ayr?

[Morientes]

Didn't make it to the game.

I'm not really worried about us being out of the Challenge Cup, more concerned that we were turned over by Ross county.
The Challenge cup doesn't really interest me until the semi final when you start thinking about winning some silverware.

Regarding the Euan McLean comments, spoke to a few DUFC fans I work with when the transfer was made and they didn't really rate him then.

How long until Alan Main is fit?

[Broon]

I think some people need to get off the new keepers back a wee bit. Does anyone remember when Alan Main first signed for us? He was hopeless - absoultely terrible.

Goalkeepers take time to settle into a club, sometimes months rather than weeks. It's the position that clubs should try and change the least because it causes havoc to change a goalie. Look at the big clubs, they get a solid keeper and they stick with them through thick and thin - Chelsea (cech), Man Utd (Van Der Saar). Arsenal even stuck with a shit keeper because at least they were settled.

Another important thing we need to consider is that Goalkeepers are at their best playing in front of a settled back 4. At the moment, we are luck to play 90 mins with the same back 4 never mind back to back games.

Time will tell if he is any good - but for now none of us can pass comment.

[Noose76]

People seem to have forgotten how bad Alan Main was for periods of last season. I could of knocked him out after letting in that howler at Clyde, and the whole Ando own goal fiasco. Main seems to lose his sense of positioning from time to time and is made a fool of, but on the other hand he can pull off some unbelievable saves.

[Radford 72]

I could of knocked him out after letting in that howler at Clyde...
How was Main to blame for that? He was correctly positioned but their boy made a total mess of his cross and it sailed in the top corner. Total fluke.

McLean is still finding his feet. He's not dropped one in the net yet and I can't think of many mistakes he's made in terms of handling, he just seems to lack a wee bit of confidence to come off his line, which is strange for such a big lad. I've certainly not written him off and am still far happier with him in nets than I would be if Tucuth was there.

I'm hopeful we'll see a good reaction from the boys on Saturday.

[Noose76]

Keeper of Main's standard shouldnt be made a mug of by a cross like that, and Main had an age to reposition himself to keep it out.

[Jamie_Beatson]

Goals like that happen to all keepers. It was a total fluke. Main was properly positioned a few yards off his line for a cross that was coming in from 30+ yards out on the touchline. The ball sailed straight in to the top corner. Complete accident.

[SingaporeSaint]

I could of knocked him out after letting in that howler at Clyde, .

I've met Alan a few times, well athletic for his age, sure you could get anywhere near knocking him out !

[Noose76]

I'm a 6 '5 tank who eats babies for breakfast so I reckon I'd do him. He still runs about kidding on he's an aeroplane ffs, even SaintSam could have him! :D

[mainstand]

even SaintSam could have him! :D

You will be in for it now. I can't see her letting that one lie.