#19 - 06/12/08 - Queen of the South (h)

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Christmas is coming and for Saints it could be very merry. This is the first of a 5 game run which may go a long way to define how our season will pan out. With the added bonus of the Ormond stand being open for those of us wanting to burst our lungs in song, it's a game I am looking very much forward to. Queens form of late has been inconsistent,verging on pish poor. Since humping Livi 6-1 they have lost five and won only one, conceding ten and scoring only three.On paper we should win this game and our record against queens at McD is pretty good. Of course football matches aint played on paper so we will need to show commitment and a great attitude if we are to secure the three points.Team wise I very much hope Caff is fit and well for this one as I feel we missed him at Dens.I am assuming MMM was out for only the one game ( please correct me if I'm wrong) and if so I would like to see him back in as well.

I'd hope to see something like this...

Main in goals,

a back four of Irvine, Caff, Rusty ( capt.) Craig.

A midfield of Millar, Morris, Hardie and Sheerin.

And Savo and Sherlock up front..


Subs..The Baldyman, Mooner, Swankie, Samuel, Ando.

No place for..James, Peaso, McKoy, Morgan, Jackson.

[Finners]

cant wait, big crowd at dens last week and good crowd will be here at mcd on saturday - still undefeated in ages. The good times they just a-keep on rolling :D

[Mike180279]

I think james will be first choice as he is fit, think Caff may be on the bench. Also a number of people questioned why he was captain yesterday, he is the club captain with ruti the vice captain...

Interesting that once again peaso not being talked abt for even a place on the bench.

[saintj]

i would go same players in 442 except i think we should be more attack minded and play swankie on the wing instead of either miller or sheerin, the reason fo either of them is because i didnt think miller was as effective out on the wing against the dees

i would definately have caff in place of james and rusty returning as captitano

[541ntees]

my team is exactly the same as gohsties.

think the week off for queens could work in our favour meaning we're more match fit.

once again can't wait for this with another of ginger's big events to come!

[templeofsaints]

Since I'm missing this one I'll take a scrappy boring 1-0 win :)

[sign dave]

I'm in the main stand for this one, and really wish it had been another day.

I just hope everyone makes this day sound as good as they're saying, becasue if they do i've got a brilliant (secret) plan up my sleeve for after the game if the saints players are still fired up. :wink:

[Ray Blair]

Dave are you goming to take a photo of the Ormond stand and post it on Sat night?
Im looking forward to the game although it would appear there is no easy games in this league reckon we will win.

Wont be impressed if James retains his place and reckon Swankie on from the start with Sheerin coming on a s super sub.

[sign dave]

Dave are you goming to take a photo of the Ormond stand and post it on Sat night?
Im looking forward to the game although it would appear there is no easy games in this league reckon we will win.

Wont be impressed if James retains his place and reckon Swankie on from the start with Sheerin coming on a s super sub.


that wasnt my plan, but i have just been sent a letter saying my hospitality day has moved to the clyde game on the 27th. so its game on for me in the ormond stand. :mrgreen:


i was gonna interview a couple of players for www.stjohnstonefc.co.uk and do a soccer am styled "reasons why i love football". will just do it later in clyde game or whenever i see them. would have been good to see some of their answers including what team they supported as a kid and what they'de do if it wernt for footie. longest in the shower :laugh:

[HertsSaintee]

I'm in the main stand for this one, and really wish it had been another day.

I just hope everyone makes this day sound as good as they're saying, becasue if they do i've got a brilliant (secret) plan up my sleeve for after the game if the saints players are still fired up. :wink:

Yer no gonnae streak are ye? :laugh:

[Finners]

i was gonna interview a couple of players for www.stjohnstonefc.co.uk and do a soccer am styled "reasons why i love football". will just do it later in clyde game or whenever i see them. would have been good to see some of their answers including what team they supported as a kid and what they'de do if it wernt for footie. longest in the shower :laugh:

sounds funny already sign dave. Anyone want to predict who is the longest in the shower already? Swankie i think haha

What are the other questions they get asked again?

[sign dave]

im going for mckoy or samuel for obvious reasons, :laugh:

top 3 goals.
worst dresser.
worst dancer
comedian in the team

i'll add in best moment they've had in saints team.
any memories of playing against us before

[R.B.B:- Adz]

Got to imagine MMM will come back in but im not so sure that Caff is as obvious a first choice as you think. I think now KJ has his chance then the shirt is back in his hand and up to Caff 2 win it back. Hopefully Millar wont be wasted out on the wing again and Ando will stay in at left back. Since its a home game, Swanks is likely to start and hoping a week of training Homer will be looking sharper.

Main

Irvine KJ Dinky Ando

Swanks Millar Hardie Craig

Savo Homo

However although would be great to see two wide me back in the saints line up at home i think Del will opt for

Main

Irving KJ Dinky Craig

Hardie Millar Jody Swanks

Savo Homo

Quite a few decision to be made now that we're almost back to full strength.....

[sign dave]

hardie is not a winger, we will never play him on the wing.

and i can see homer getting dropped for samuel soon.

[Broon]

hardie is not a winger, we will never play him on the wing.

and i can see homer getting dropped for samuel soon.

He played down on the right hand side in most of Coyles games in charge and was quite effective there. I think the main reason he was played out there was to rescue Halliwells kicks.

[sign dave]

He played down on the right hand side in most of Coyles games in charge and was quite effective there. I think the main reason he was played out there was to rescue Halliwells kicks.

so that would work with Alan Main then :laugh:

i actually remember him playing out on the left wing too a few year back in the 3 all game away to qots. and actually taking the time to think about it you are right in saying he was effective.

my appologies.

[Mike180279]

so that would work with Alan Main then :laugh:

i actually remember him playing out on the left wing too a few year back in the 3 all game away to qots. and actually taking the time to think about it you are right in saying he was effective.

my appologies.Not suite sure it would work now though, Hardie is all about his presence now. he has lost even more pace (if thats possible) still one of my first choices but for me its got to be central....

[St Mikey]

Whens Jacko fit again? Boy seems never to play or get the chance.

I'll take an ugly 1-0 against QoS. As long as someone boots Dobbie's fat ass :o

[sign dave]

i've put jacko as 1st goal scorer against qots,

[Mike180279]

Whens Jacko fit again? Boy seems never to play or get the chance.

I'll take an ugly 1-0 against QoS. As long as someone boots Dobbie's fat ass :oI'd like to see a fit Jacko running off Homer too. He was brilliant with the Doc last year and this could work.

It wouldnt suprise me though if jacko went to a 2nd division team though on 2 month loan to get him some practise as I cant see him getting in anytime soon

[HertsSaintee]

I'd like to see a fit Jacko running off Homer too. He was brilliant with the Doc last year and this could work.

It wouldnt suprise me though if jacko went to a 2nd division team though on 2 month loan to get him some practise as I cant see him getting in anytime soon

It think it would need both Savo and Sammy to get injured or have major drops in form for Jackson to get a chance. To be honest, if he's fit, a loan deal with another club is probably the best option for him right now - he must be lacking match practice and confidence - looks half the player he was last season when he's played.

[Macarius]

Aye the 2 glaring negatives for our season so far has been the progress of Jacko and the stagnation of Peaso. Its a shame really because St Johnstone have a fantastic depth in the striking department but thats a good recipe to go sour. Milne can obviously run for the whole 90 minutes of a game, so barring injury (quite possible before the season is over) or suspension (highly unlikley for Milne) he's our first choice striker week in week out.

Holmes adds a great element to our team with his strength and height but he tires quickly. I'm not a huge fan of this Savo+Holmer for 70 minutes then giving Samuels a run out for the last 20. He allegedly has pace to burn but never looks like he is really trying and while he looks skilled at holding the ball up I never really feel confident he's going to beat defenders.

Don't get me wrong, I like Peaso but he's just not been on form anytime I've seen him this year. He's always willing to have a run at defenders but he never really manages to look dangerous. Jackson I don't really know much about. He was obviously netting the goals last year and I recall him saying something along the lines of he was aiming for 20 goals this current season and was expecting a monetary reward from McInnes if he's managed it.

Well thats a third of the season so far and hes not even on the scoresheet. I don't want to call time on the lad too soon but it looks like his wonder season last year may have been a one off. I dunno but I'd definetly be looking to get him out on loan for at least a couple of months or until we have some bad luck with injuries.

[SaintSam1884]

I'm not sure how Jackson can score goals when he's not in the match day squad. He wasn't so bad earlier in the year that justifies complete exclusion. I know he's been injured but I think his situation runs a lot deeper than any of us really know. I think he showed last year enough potential and ability to suggest that his form wasn't a fluke or a one off. I hope to see him back but wouldn't be against the idea of sending him on loan.

[Broon]

Both Peaso and Jacko need a run of 4 or 5 games before anyone can judge them. Barring injury, it's just not going to happen. Both are infinitely more talented players than Savo, Samuel and Holmes.

I'm not saying anything about the effectiveness of Savo and Holmes but I think Jacko and Peaso are better players. Savo's goalscoring has been excellent this season and Holmes link play merits his inclusion in the team.

It's a nice problem to have.

[monkfish]

Both Peaso and Jacko need a run of 4 or 5 games before anyone can judge them. Barring injury, it's just not going to happen. Both are infinitely more talented players than Savo, Samuel and Holmes.

It's a nice problem to have.

How can you say Jacko is infinately more talented than the likes of Savo when he's only had one season? I agree with you about people writing them off when they've not even played. We've got a very good partnership at the moment and they just can't break into it, doesn't mean they're suddenly rubbish.

[soulfulsaint]

a very efficient home win will do me. 1-0 even. just off to detroit and met a dundeee fan at gatwick. he was off to geneva for 5 months working and said "I'll be back in time for Dundee's title party." Are people aloud to fly with such extreme mental health problems?

[Broon]

How can you say Jacko is infinately more talented than the likes of Savo when he's only had one season?

Because I think he has more to his game than Savo. He can head a ball, has the ability to take his man on, can hold the ball up and is just as good a finisher (based on last season form). I like Savo, especially this season when playing up top with a big guy, but I think Jacko is a better player.

This doesn't mean that I think Savo should be dropped, because his inclusion in the team is merited.

[541ntees]

i've put jacko as 1st goal scorer against qots,

another classic from sign dave :laugh::laugh:

[chopper]

a very efficient home win will do me. 1-0 even. just off to detroit and met a dundeee fan at gatwick. he was off to geneva for 5 years working and said "I'll be back in time for Dundee's title party." Are people aloud to fly with such extreme mental health problems?

That sounds a bit more realistic, though it is worrying who they will let into an airport in these days of heightened security, I mean SoulfulSaint at Gatwick - what is the world coming to?????????

[R.B.B:- Adz]

Lets be honest is Dels style of 4-4-2 really "wingers." Hardie played there regularly and del has also had him playing there on occasions. Hardie is more of a RIGHT MIDFIELDER than Chris Millar will ever be and look where Millar played in MMM's absence on saturday.
Who would you drop to accomodate Martin's return then Broon? I think Jody and Millars work rate and "presence" are enough in the centre mid.

1)He cant drop Chris Millar for more reasons than i can mention
2)He has to include MMM as he commmented on how much we missed him at Dens
3)He wont drop Jody because he has finally got his star signing back on the pitch
4)More often than not Swanks gets a game at home and i presume will have been told that Dundee was not the right game for him and QOTS will suit his play much better
5)He wont drop Liam Craig (unless he puts him back to left back) which would leave him having to drop Ando after a solid performance on Saturday

I agree that if Sammy is going to get a start, this saturday will be his day. Homer is not 100% and its a home game with an otherwise fully fit squad.

My feeling is that swankie will miss out again which is a shame because he can provide some brilliant ammo for Homer and Savo however if he leaves out him then he has to accomodate

Hardie, Jody, Millar and Craig in a 4 man midfield and given how ineffective Chris was right mid v dundee i cant see him marooned out there again....... hence why i suggested MMM would be there.

[Mike180279]

Lets be honest is Dels style of 4-4-2 really "wingers." Hardie played there regularly and del has also had him playing there on occasions. Hardie is more of a RIGHT MIDFIELDER than Chris Millar will ever be and look where Millar played in MMM's absence on saturday.
Who would you drop to accomodate Martin's return then Broon? I think Jody and Millars work rate and "presence" are enough in the centre mid.

1)He cant drop Chris Millar for more reasons than i can mention
2)He has to include MMM as he commmented on how much we missed him at Dens
3)He wont drop Jody because he has finally got his star signing back on the pitch
4)More often than not Swanks gets a game at home and i presume will have been told that Dundee was not the right game for him and QOTS will suit his play much better
5)He wont drop Liam Craig (unless he puts him back to left back) which would leave him having to drop Ando after a solid performance on Saturday

I agree that if Sammy is going to get a start, this saturday will be his day. Homer is not 100% and its a home game with an otherwise fully fit squad.

My feeling is that swankie will miss out again which is a shame because he can provide some brilliant ammo for Homer and Savo however if he leaves out him then he has to accomodate

Hardie, Jody, Millar and Craig in a 4 man midfield and given how ineffective Chris was right mid v dundee i cant see him marooned out there again....... hence why i suggested MMM would be there.I think that he will play Swankie this week and drop Ando by switching craig into defence. I think MMM will be played in the centre of the park, possibly changing around with Millar. I want to see Sammy start a game, but think he is more likely to go with the partnership that he brought us success so far.....

I dont think Sheerin is likely to start when we have a full compliment of midfielders which I believe was always the intention before the jody injury.

[Scobby_SJFC]

We could do with getting back on the win trail again!!
wouldnt mind seeing samuel on the right wing for this one!!

[HertsSaintee]

I dont think Sheerin is likely to start when we have a full compliment of midfielders which I believe was always the intention before the jody injury.

I'd probably agree with you on that one. However, Paul Sheerin has turned in some consistently good performances of late - thought he did well again on Saturday when he came on - which gives the manager a bit of a decision to make...

[CynicalSaintee]

We should win.

We can't lose; Queens can't win. Most players are fit or on form, and MMM is back.

[R.B.B:- Adz]

One thing i realised from my previous very long post was that i hadnt even considered Mooner. Del was in the paper again singing his praises saying that he is an "all rounder" who has all the qualities to be a star. So assuming the Sheerin is the man to drop out of the equation that leaves:

Swankie/Millar/Hardie/Mooner/Jody/Craig

?????

[Jimmy Wallace]

5)He wont drop Liam Craig (unless he puts him back to left back) which would leave him having to drop Ando after a solid performance on Saturday

Sorry mate, I thought Ando was honking on Saturday, nearly cost us on a number of occasions, as did James. I think the defence is still a potential weak area especially when we end up defending deep. Queen's are good going forward and I hope Caff is back to make things a bit more solid.

[R.B.B:- Adz]

I just feel Ando looks so much more natural back there and takes a lot of the pressure off our centre half, but when liam is in there, Dinky or Caff or KJ is always on his back making sure he is in position ect. Plus i think Liam is wasted at left back. I think a couple of games in that slot will see Ando as the short term answer.
As for James i think its looking like its going to be a race to see which(if either) of them are fit for saturday. Could well see ando slip inside one with liam going left back because both James and Caff are really up against it to make saturday.

[Jimmy Wallace]

Maybe so RBB. I just don't rate Ando, never have, and although he is better than he used to be I have kittens every time the ball goes anywhere near him. :sad:

[ancientsaint]

a very efficient home win will do me. 1-0 even. just off to detroit and met a dundeee fan at gatwick. he was off to geneva for 5 months working and said "I'll be back in time for Dundee's title party." Are people aloud to fly with such extreme mental health problems?


Poor show - people leaving this beautiful land just to fly on a plane and pretend its a work related flight....These people should be at home at this critical period supporting their club in person....whats this world coming too...tch tch tch :mrgreen:

[CynicalSaintee]

ANdo makes too many errors to be a CB. That position needs cool heads and strong leadership, and although KJ has that, as well as height, he's too slow. The speed of Weatherstone would be a real hassle for him. Hopefully Caff can come back in time, but that's a doubt. If Homer's not 100%, I would also try putting Peaso on from the start as we don't want to risk aggravating the injury.

[ancientsaint]

Notice when James is playing he shouts a lot at Ando....whereas Caff tends to have a quiet word at the start and throughout the game...Ando seems to play better when Caff is about.

Rusti....well he is Rusti isnt he ?

[CynicalSaintee]

Rusty's the first name on the 'sheet for me. Rock solid game-in, game-out (forgetting the early part of the season).

[saintj]

i think sammy would get the nod over peaso cynical imo

james bullies the players and just rips into them, caff and rusty have a good partnership and i think rusty is a better captain than james

[CynicalSaintee]

I would agree. James is too brutal, at times. Rusty just quietly gets on with it, yet still leads them well.

[101 Saint]

Rusty and Irvine need to be much better organised if Davie starts. Remember, every interview at the end of his time with us, "I score goals by drifting left and cutting inside" Curier destroyed us by doing this on Saturday and Davie will exploit it. Irvine will match him for pace but Rusty won't. On the plus side, his finishing is not brilliant.

Agree with RBB about the midfield but can't see Del having the balls to stick MMM wide right. Millar has done well most of the year playing out of position and mental can score whereas Midge (despite his strikes in training) has not opened his account yet.

You've gotta feel for Mooner. Outplayed Jody at Dens and yet he's almost certain to be dropped again. If I was him, I'd be on the blower to Levein.

As for the strikers, I don't want Sammy to start,after his attitude at Dens. He undid a stack of good work with 15 minutes of apapthy of Saturday and to hand him a start, after displaying such indifference, would be criminal. I'd give Jacko or Peaso a run. Never understood the criticism of Jacko, especially given his summer ailments; whilst for all his faults, Peaso is a brilliant finisher.

[CynicalSaintee]

Mooner will NOT leave Saints.

He is blue through-and-through.

[101 Saint]

I would agree. James is too brutal, at times. Rusty just quietly gets on with it, yet still leads them well.

Havers! It's a game for big hairy men, no' poofters. I'll take 11 fighters over 11fairies every time.

Did you see the reserve game against Arbroath? Morgan went to sleep at a set piece, James gave him rollicking and Morgan went in a wee huff. Without getting into specifics, James and Craig had a disagreement at training. The two men fought their corner for a few seconds, got on with the game and picked up the discussion at the interval. It ended with James patting Liam on the back, no hard feelings.

Do you want Liam's or Morgan's in you team? Players that can't cope with criticism can feck off to the OF.

James also holds a higher line, which possibly saved our unbeaten run.

[CynicalSaintee]

I guess it'll depend just who's fit at the time. An in-form James would be great, yes, but an out-of-form defender is asking for trouble. That said, him and Rusty obviously have tonnes of experience playing with each other, and so their partnership comes ready made.

[R.B.B:- Adz]

yeah i agree with 101! The experience of Dinky and KJ getting an extended run as a partnership to me is an invaluable asset at this level. No doubt Caff has been excellent! He has been solid and has so much to offer, but Kevin has the shirt now and it will be a case of i told you so because between Main Dinky and James the foundation is there for a rock solid defence.
A lot of the criticism for James comes through fans frustration about his injuries and how he has left us short at the back in recent times. However to knock the guys ability to get us out of this division is insane in my opinion.
In short Dinky Caff and Kj are all of a similar standard, but that is what competition for places is all about.
As for Mooner in midfield, Del has a real headache ahead of saturday.

[CynicalSaintee]

Morris will start, and Moon will come on when the ol' geezer needs his sherry.

[saintj]

rbb i dont criticise kj because of his injuries, i just dont think he is all that good, as i have said on numerous occasions rusty and caff are better together imo

we are unbeaten since ages ago and we are conceding little from open play or we certainly had been and i think rusty and caff have been rock solid since the start of that run

[Ray Blair]

Mooner will NOT leave Saints.

He is blue through-and-through.

Unless he gets a chance of first team football and financial security eg a long contract.

[CynicalSaintee]

Morris won't be around forever, and once we get into the SPL we won't have need of brutes (in the nicest possible way) like Hardie, so Mooner will be guaranteed a starting place with Morris, and by then Swankie will take over from Sheerin on the wing, when The Wizard goes to being a full-time coach.

[Brian Potter]

we are unbeaten since ages ago and we are conceding little from open play or we certainly had been and i think rusty and caff have been rock solid since the start of that run

My thoughts exactly, if Caff is fit he must play! If it's not broke don't fix it!

As for the midfield and strikers, we are spolit for choice at the moment, I'm not even going to attempt to name the starting eleven!

It's great to have every player fighting for their place! Enjoy it while it lasts cos it ain't always going to be like this!

[Noose76]

James also holds a higher line, which possibly saved our unbeaten run.

I totally agree with that.

anyone else and we would of conceeded the 2nd on Saturday, I thought the defence done a good job taking all things into consideration.

[sign dave]

the one goal that we did conceed tho. would caff have had the pace to chase down courier before he hit it in?

and look at the mistakes james made, although he did clear most lobs that dundee put our way.

[Broon]

James is absoultey garbage. Fair enough, he can stand there and head the ball clear but I think people get fooled into believing he is a good player because of this. Everyone thinks that he's a threat at set pieces but he is actually a terrible attacking header of the ball. Head like a 50p piece. For the amount of times he wins a header in the box his conversion rate it poor. We score more goals indirectly from his headers, which to be fair is a decent attribute.

In defence, he chases after the ball like a school boy, leaving his position at centre back vacant. He especially likes to take over the full backs job of tackling the winger. This means half the time when a cross ball comes in James is nowhere to be seen. He's also slow as hell, and when he runs its like Bambi on ice. I get embarrassed watching James play for Saints.

And don't even start me on the way he abuses his team mates throughout a game. A captain coaches and motivates his way though a match. James shatters and demotivates all around him.

You can't doubt the guys commitment and effort, but Caff is a much better option at the back.

[Radford 72]

James is absoultey garbage. Fair enough, he can stand there and head the ball clear but I think people get fooled into believing he is a good player because of this. Everyone thinks that he's a threat at set pieces but he is actually a terrible attacking header of the ball. Head like a 50p piece. For the amount of times he wins a header in the box his conversion rate it poor. We score more goals indirectly from his headers, which to be fair is a decent attribute.

In defence, he chases after the ball like a school boy, leaving his position at centre back vacant. He especially likes to take over the full backs job of tackling the winger. This means half the time when a cross ball comes in James is nowhere to be seen. He's also slow as hell, and when he runs its like Bambi on ice. I get embarrassed watching James play for Saints.

And don't even start me on the way he abuses his team mates throughout a game. A captain coaches and motivates his way though a match. James shatters and demotivates all around him.
The worrying thing is I reckon you actually believe all that. He's a million miles away from his best as he's played 8 games in two seasons (and is injured again ahead of tomorrow) but a fit Kevin James has been a massive asset to Saints over his time here. The problem is he can't seem to stay injury free any more and as a result isn't making nearly enough of a contribution on the pitch.

Do you really think all his managers have just let him shatter and demotivate those around him throughout his career? He's been captain of every club he's played for bar Hearts and was given the armband straight away again last week. You are making a big call against McInnes (and Coyle) with everything you've said about James.

[Broon]

Do you really think all his managers have just let him shatter and demotivate those around him throughout his career? He's been captain of every club he's played for bar Hearts and was given the armband straight away again last week. You are making a big call against McInnes (and Coyle) with everything you've said about James.

It depends how you react though. Some players respond to the way James leads the team. Confident players respond to it. When a team is devoid of confidence (like we were at the start of the season) he is the worst type of character to have leading the team. He can shout, and organise, and give people a bollocking but not everyone responds to that. Some players need a bit of encouragement to not dwell on their mistakes and get on with it.

Most players know when they have made a mistake - they don't need to be bollocked for it.

[Noose76]

You could tell he'd hurt himself on Saturday when he went down in front of us and went "bastar d!", before grabbing his calf/thigh. (canne mind which one it was)

[Jamie_Beatson]

My line-up for tomorrow would be:

Main,
Irvine, Rutkiewicz, McCaffrey, Craig,
Millar, Hardie, Morris/Moon (can't decide who to drop), Swankie
Holmes, Milne.

Subs - Hillcoat, Morris/Moon, Anderson, Samuel, Sheerin.

The thing is there are so many options. Anderson could play at left back with Craig on the left. That means Swankie needs to go to the right, probably at the expense of Morris/Moon when Millar moves to the centre. Or you could have Sheerinho on the left, again moving other midfielders about.

At least we know we can change things around considerably just by bringing on one substitute if it isn't going ou way.

Tough call between Morris and Moon. Moon looked good last week until he got booked and dropped out of the game, and Morris was good until he tired.

[CynicalSaintee]

My line-up for tomorrow would be:

Main,
Irvine, Rutkiewicz, McCaffrey, Craig,
Millar, Hardie, Morris/Moon (can't decide who to drop), Swankie
Holmes, Milne.

Subs - Hillcoat, Morris/Moon, Anderson, Samuel, Sheerin.

The thing is there are so many options. Anderson could play at left back with Craig on the left. That means Swankie needs to go to the right, probably at the expense of Morris/Moon when Millar moves to the centre. Or you could have Sheerinho on the left, again moving other midfielders about.

At least we know we can change things around considerably just by bringing on one substitute if it isn't going ou way.

Tough call between Morris and Moon. Moon looked good last week until he got booked and dropped out of the game, and Morris was good until he tired.

Main
Irvine Caff Rusty Craig
Millar MMM Morris Merlin
Peaso/Holmes(If Holmes isn't 100%) Savo

Subs; Peaso/Holmes, Moon, Swankie, Samuel, Hillcoat

I'd play Morris first half, Moon second half.That way you get the best of both - the fresh craft and guile of Morris, then the pace and energy of Mooner in the second half as the players around him tire. I'd be surprised if Del did anything else, really.

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Main
Irvine Caff Rusty Craig
Millar MMM Morris Merlin
Peaso/Holmes(If Holmes isn't 100%) Savo

Subs; Peaso/Holmes, Moon, Swankie, Samuel, Hillcoat

I'd play Morris first half, Moon second half.That way you get the best of both - the fresh craft and guile of Morris, then the pace and energy of Mooner in the second half as the players around him tire. I'd be surprised if Del did anything else, really.


You haven't got a defender on the bench laddo..Gotta have Ando on the bench. 1 goalie, 1 defender, 2 midfielders and a forward. Holmes will be fit, no place for McDonald

[Radford 72]

It depends how you react though. Some players respond to the way James leads the team. Confident players respond to it. When a team is devoid of confidence (like we were at the start of the season) he is the worst type of character to have leading the team. He can shout, and organise, and give people a bollocking but not everyone responds to that. Some players need a bit of encouragement to not dwell on their mistakes and get on with it.

Most players know when they have made a mistake - they don't need to be bollocked for it.
He isn't like that with everyone though. I've seen him in reserve games alongside guys like Steven Kerr (who makes his fair share of mistakes) and he's far more reserved with him as he realises that bellowing at that specific player won't help him. With the more senior guys he can be harsh but then he's nearly always the one to say "well done" when they do something well. He does organise the side very well.

Of course there are faults and you nailed one when you mentioned him sometimes thinking he's a one man team but any other weaknesses in his game at the moment are down to the fact he's barely played any football in the past couple of years, which is obviously a problem in itself.

As for the side tomorrow, I think McInnes' comments about picking a team for the occasion is quite telling and I wouldn't be amazed if there were a few surprises like last week.

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Any word on the state of the pitch/game being off.I realise that the weather has improved and it's not quite so cold but what's the Hampden roar with snow. Any lying on the surface and if there is , are they leaving it there overnight to protect the playing surface or are they /have they lifted it?????

[saintj]

i may be wrong but on the pa there is a saints player (maybe hardie, dony know just had a quick look) on the back in the stadium and looks like there was a little layer of snow on the pitch

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

i may be wrong but on the pa there is a saints player (maybe hardie, dony know just had a quick look) on the back in the stadium and looks like there was a little layer of snow on the pitch

Yeah , I saw that and that's why I'm asking.

[Kevin]

Yeah , I saw that and that's why I'm asking.

Aye, it was MMM collecting his PA player of the month award on Tuseday. Pitch is clear and the only thing that could spoil tomorrow is if the car park freezes solid!! IIRR we had a fame called off last season (or was it the season before?) due to the car park being frozen and too dangerous to walk on..........

[THE REBEL SAINT]

its spitting of rain now so i would imagine the game should go ahead :)

[CynicalSaintee]

You haven't got a defender on the bench laddo..Gotta have Ando on the bench. 1 goalie, 1 defender, 2 midfielders and a forward. Holmes will be fit, no place for McDonald

D'oh. Forgot about Ando. :oops:

It's either him or Millar I forget. :laugh:

Swap Swankie for Ando. Moon's on much better form.

And there's undersoil heating, so snow shouldn't be too much of a concern.

[Alan Main FanClub]

Big game, big support and hopefully a big three points.

QoS have been poor of late, so I expect us with the help of a big crowd and vocal backing to turn them over.

I think Moon will be unfairly dropped, he was my MoM against Dundee, but I reckon Hardie will come in for him, but it should be Morris who is dropped. But, Del will be under pressure to play the highly paid players, so despite the right up he gave Mooner in the Telegraph, I think he will be dropped from the XI and may not even be in the 16!!

I think he'll go with;

Main
Irvine Craig Caff/James Rutkiewicz
Millar Hardie Morris Swankie
Savo Holmes

Hillcoat, Anderson, Samuel, Sheerin and Moon/Peaso

or

Main
Irvine Craig Caff/James Rutkiewicz
Millar Hardie Morris
Savo Holmes Samuel

Hillcoat, Anderson, Peaso, Swankie and Sheerin/Moon

So as you can see, hard to fit the lad in the 16, which is a shame as he outplayed Morris last weekend.

[CynicalSaintee]

We can't do 4-3-3. We'll get overrun, even with Hardie.

[Alan Main FanClub]

We can't do 4-3-3. We'll get overrun, even with Hardie.

I can definitely see us playing 4-3-3.

[saintj]

Aye, it was MMM collecting his PA player of the month award on Tuseday. Pitch is clear and the only thing that could spoil tomorrow is if the car park freezes solid!! IIRR we had a fame called off last season (or was it the season before?) due to the car park being frozen and too dangerous to walk on..........

raith rovers in the cup was the game that was called off, mind speaking to savo down the bookies on that saturday

[saintj]

We can't do 4-3-3. We'll get overrun, even with Hardie.

we shouldnt get over run if we play 433 in attack and 451 in defense

[CynicalSaintee]

we shouldnt get over run if we play 433 in attack and 451 in defense

It'd end up being that way, anyway. Samuel's a lazy c*nt and would stay up front while Savo and Holmes ran back. Sure, he can score if he gets enough time, but without any contribution in other areas, it leaves us weaker overall.

He's basically our Boydie, but with more technique.

[saintj]

i found it strange when we did play 433 it was with 3 strikers and not 2 wingers, if sammy can get playing at his best then that would definately be a huge asset to the team

[O'Rourke]

Strangely don't have a good feeling about this game but can't put my finger on why.

I hope Ginger's day goes well and my fears are unfounded.

[dave mc]

Radio Tay said at lunch time that James was seeing a specialist regarding a back injury,anyone know any more,or if he's fecked for the morn?

[slf]

hope we stretch our lead.and i hope some player kicks dobbys arse

[O'Rourke]

hope we stretch our lead.and i hope some player kicks dobbys arse

big enough target

[Barca-Saintee]

It'd end up being that way, anyway. Samuel's a lazy c*nt and would stay up front while Savo and Holmes ran back.

he has looked hard-working to me in most games. Not to the level of Savo but certainly isn't the lazy c*nt that people keep calling him

[R.B.B:- Adz]

Really looking forward to this one due to the fact that Del has a virtually fully fit squad. So many options he could go with but my personal opinion is:

Main

Irvine Dinky Caff Craig

Millar Hardie Jody Swankie

Homo Savo

Hillcoat, Ando, Mooner, Sammy, Sheerin

That leaves two very unhappy footballers in the stand for a bumper crowd at home.

[101 Saint]

Really looking forward to this one due to the fact that Del has a virtually fully fit squad. So many options he could go with but my personal opinion is:

Main

Irvine Dinky Caff Craig

Millar Hardie Jody Swankie

Homo Savo

Hillcoat, Ando, Mooner, Sammy, Sheerin

That leaves two very unhappy footballers in the stand for a bumper crowd at home.

Paper talk is that Caff still isn't in training so I'd expect to see Ruti and Ando start with Caff as subby.

[templeofsaints]

Having to miss this one - give em hell:)

[saint5588]

Dunfermline game is off so a win today would put the pressure on DAFC if we can increase the gap at the top! I am trying to get through to the game and hoping for 3 points and a loud saints crowd!

[Steve McQueen]

Dunfermline game is off so a win today would put the pressure on DAFC if we can increase the gap at the top! I am trying to get through to the game and hoping for 3 points and a loud saints crowd!

Morton - Thistle could be in doubt too.

Good chance to pile on the pressure!

[Finners]

lvi v dundee is off too. lets get a win and keep the pressure on

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Livi are so skint they cannae even afford to put their undersoil heating on. What a ****ing joke of a club....

[StDuncM]

Livi are so skint they cannae even afford to put their undersoil heating on. What a ****ing joke of a club....

They should be fined. If they cannot pay the fine they should be demoted.

[sjfc_camo]

I dont care what some folk say but chris millar is not a wide player and del knows this thats why he plays millar in the middle at mcdiarmid
why not try mooner at right mid? as everyone says he has the energy to run all day so why not give it a try?
Saints to win 3-1 hopefully

[ryangordon86]

still no goals, Tayside Police have been up to their old tricks and turfed someone out after 2 mins for standing up....

[Calinho]

Any word on how the ormand stand idea is getting on?

[ryangordon86]

Any word on how the ormand stand idea is getting on?

ORMOND!!!!!

Come on, its not bloody hard!!!

I don't know, got a text from my dad not long after kick off saying someone got thrown out for standing up but i've not heard a thing since. I'll text him

[ryangordon86]

To quote my dad - the atmosphere is a bit flat but its been a crap game

[StDuncM]

From QoS site

First half news

The Queens team showed four changes from that which lost to Clyde on its last outing and a change to a 3-5-2 formation with Burns and McQuilken in the wing-back positions. Back into the side came Craig Barr, Andy Aitken, Stephen Simmons and Stewart Kean in place of Parratt, Sives, Weatherston and Dobbie. The latter two were on the bench along with new loan signing from Rangers, Stephen Kinniburgh. Craig Sives has now returned to Hearts at the end of his loan spell but there was no place in the sixteen for Parratt. St Johnstone were along expected lines with an attacking line up in the only first division game to survive the frost thanks to the Perth club's undersoil heating. Even so the pitch showed obvious frost in the centre.

Queens started brightly and the match was less than two minutes old when O'Connor turned Gary Irvine inside out and cut the ball back for Stevie Tosh to strike wide of target across the face of goal. Five minutes later Queens had the ball in the net when Jim Thomson smashed home Barr's header across goal from a Tosh free kick but referee Mike Tumilty spotted a push by Barr and disallowed the goal. St Johnstone showed for the first time of note on 12 minutes when Steven Milne's completely mis-hit shot fell perfectly into the path of Derek Holmes twelve yards out but the big striker blasted wide of target. Seconds later Paul Burns was booked for a foul on Hardie.

The next half hour or so saw little in the way of chances as St Johnstone gradually began to take more control of the ball in the middle of the park. The next significant chance of note though arrived on 38 minutes when Jim Thomson beat Alan Main to head goalward from a corner but Stewart Kean's diving header only succeeded in diverting the ball narrowly wide of target instead of into the net. Two minutes later at the other end Andy Aitken moved smartly and threw himself in the way to deflect a Milne drive over the bar but in the end Queens saw it through to half time scoreless in relative comfort.

[soulfulsaint]

From QoS site

First half news

The Queens team showed four changes from that which lost to Clyde on its last outing and a change to a 3-5-2 formation with Burns and McQuilken in the wing-back positions. Back into the side came Craig Barr, Andy Aitken, Stephen Simmons and Stewart Kean in place of Parratt, Sives, Weatherston and Dobbie. The latter two were on the bench along with new loan signing from Rangers, Stephen Kinniburgh. Craig Sives has now returned to Hearts at the end of his loan spell but there was no place in the sixteen for Parratt. St Johnstone were along expected lines with an attacking line up in the only first division game to survive the frost thanks to the Perth club's undersoil heating. Even so the pitch showed obvious frost in the centre.

Queens started brightly and the match was less than two minutes old when O'Connor turned Gary Irvine inside out and cut the ball back for Stevie Tosh to strike wide of target across the face of goal. Five minutes later Queens had the ball in the net when Jim Thomson smashed home Barr's header across goal from a Tosh free kick but referee Mike Tumilty spotted a push by Barr and disallowed the goal. St Johnstone showed for the first time of note on 12 minutes when Steven Milne's completely mis-hit shot fell perfectly into the path of Derek Holmes twelve yards out but the big striker blasted wide of target. Seconds later Paul Burns was booked for a foul on Hardie.

The next half hour or so saw little in the way of chances as St Johnstone gradually began to take more control of the ball in the middle of the park. The next significant chance of note though arrived on 38 minutes when Jim Thomson beat Alan Main to head goalward from a corner but Stewart Kean's diving header only succeeded in diverting the ball narrowly wide of target instead of into the net. Two minutes later at the other end Andy Aitken moved smartly and threw himself in the way to deflect a Milne drive over the bar but in the end Queens saw it through to half time scoreless in relative comfort.

Reading this in a hotel in Detroit (America's Rust Belt answer to Sheffield Duncs) so missing live match. I'd settle for a goalless draw that may sound pessimistic and like squandered points, but this league will be won by grinding out points rather than by big wins.

[saint sid]

f.t.0-0

[StDuncM]

Reading this in a hotel in Detroit (America's Rust Belt answer to Sheffield Duncs) so missing live match. I'd settle for a goalless draw that may sound pessimistic and like squandered points, but this league will be won by grinding out points rather than by big wins.

True. The rest are playing catch up.

[Coltrane]

I'll take the point...

[StDuncM]

The 2nd half show us improve!

Queens made a half time change, with Stephen Dobbie replacing Sean O'Connor up front in partnership with Kean but we had hit the hour mark before anything of note actually happened in the half. The home side thought they had opened the scoring though when Milne seized on a charged down Craig shot and fired a curling effort goalward. Cammy Bell could only watch but the ball curled agonisingly past the post the right side for Queens and the wrong side for Saints. On 63 minutes Collin Samuel got away from Andy Aitken down the right side for the first time all game and the centre half felt he had no option but to haul him down from behind. A booking of course followed!

Queens had another huge let off in 67 minutes when Bell spilled Irvine's low cross from the right and Chris Millar thought he had opened the scoring from the rebound only for Bell to pull off an amazing reaction block to redeem himself. Derek McInnes thought the time was right for a change so on came Peter MacDonald for Derek Holmes in 70 minutes. Two minutes later Neil MacFarlane produced a fine defensive block to deny another opening. St Johnstone made another change in the 80th minute with Kevin Moon replacing Chris Millar and four minutes later Jody Morris fired in a dangerous shot that had Bell throwing himself to his right, though it missed the target.

Seconds later came the game's big controversy. Cammy Bell collected an overhit through ball and, having got to his feet, bounced the ball once only for Steven Milne to nip in and poke the ball into the net. Referee Mr Tumilty was having none of it though. Defining the ball has having been "in the goalkeeper's control" he ruled a foul and free kick to Queens much to Milne's annoyance. St Johnstone were straight back on the attack and Jim Thomson collected our third booking for an "industrial" challenge on Irvine as he tried to burst clear. The resulting free kick from the edge of the box was blocked by the wall and Morris fired the rebound narrowly over. The little midfielder was getting more and more involved at this point and was booked shortly after for exhibiting his dissent when a foul was given against him.

With two minutes remaining Simmons sent Dobbie clear down the right and it looked like we might even snatch the points but the angle wasn't great by the time he got to goal and Main blocked with his legs. Moments later Aitken survived a big handball shout. To be fair the ball did look like it struck his arm but it was by his side and certainly ball to arm.

In the end Queens will be grateful for the 0-0 draw at what has become a bit of a bogey ground lately as it halts an alarming run of defeats.

[101 Saint]

Woeful team selection, woeful line-up, (some) woeful performances, woeful subs and the cruellest of refereeing decisions. Still, we're a point better off and we've got a clean sheet at home, these gritty points win titles.

[soulfulsaint]

Dunc's review says: "The 2nd half show us improve!Seconds later came the game's big controversy. Cammy Bell collected an overhit through ball and, having got to his feet, bounced the ball once only for Steven Milne to nip in and poke the ball into the net. Referee Mr Tumilty was having none of it though. Defining the ball has having been "in the goalkeeper's control" he ruled a foul and free kick to Queens much to Milne's annoyance."


Ridiculous decision even through a snow-blizzard in Michigan it looked like a stone-wall goal to me. Can anyone at the match clarify if I'm dreaming again?

[MUZZ]

not got a lot to say about that performance today i'm afraid.

[soulfulsaint]

not got a lot to say about that performance today i'm afraid.

C'mon MUzz I'm thousands of miles from home any tit-bit will do?

[CynicalSaintee]

The 2nd half show us improve!

On 63 minutes Collin Samuel got away from Andy Aitken down the right side for the first time all game and the centre half felt he had no option but to haul him down from behind. A booking of course followed!


Seconds later came the game's big controversy. Cammy Bell collected an overhit through ball and, having got to his feet, bounced the ball once only for Steven Milne to nip in and poke the ball into the net. Referee Mr Tumilty was having none of it though. Defining the ball has having been "in the goalkeeper's control" he ruled a foul and free kick to Queens much to Milne's annoyance. St Johnstone were straight back on the attack and Jim Thomson collected our third booking for an "industrial" challenge on Irvine as he tried to burst clear. The resulting free kick from the edge of the box was blocked by the wall and Morris fired the rebound narrowly over. The little midfielder was getting more and more involved at this point and was booked shortly after for exhibiting his dissent when a foul was given against him.

With two minutes remaining Simmons sent Dobbie clear down the right and it looked like we might even snatch the points but the angle wasn't great by the time he got to goal and Main blocked with his legs. Moments later Aitken survived a big handball shout. To be fair the ball did look like it struck his arm but it was by his side and certainly ball to arm.

In the end Queens will be grateful for the 0-0 draw at what has become a bit of a bogey ground lately as it halts an alarming run of defeats.

Not really accurate.

1. It was Samuel that poked the ball past the keeper for the disallowed goal.

2.Queens also had a goal ruled out.

3. We had two handball shouts turned down.

4. We had 2 goals ruled out, Sammy's goal, and Moon's rocket which was flying into the net, only for one of the Queens to play keeper and blatantly punch it out. There was no ambiguity about it, from where I sat. He raised his hand, and smacked the ball down in front of him.

5. Holmes was in an attacking position, ready to cross, when a Queen defender pulled him to the ground, and hoofed it up. Moments later, a Queen was cleanly tackled, and fell over, but teh free kick was given the other way.

We should have won 5-0, but our shooting was utterly woeful, and the referee was one of the most incompetent I've seen - something we've been saying with concerning regularity, this season.

We couldn't have played better, when it came to getting forward, and we defended reasonably well. Main was excellent and made some good, critical decisions at important times. Though his kicking was also shite, as usual.

Moon was excellent when he came on, although lost the ball once by fannying about. Though fully redeemed himself and should have scored, if not for the ref. Millar had a stinker, at least in front of goal.

Morris was alright, leading the team well and, as always, getting stuck right in.

Samuel was excellent, winning the ball in midfield and winning us lots of free kicks in dangerous positions (only for MIllar or some other clod to make an absolute arse of it).

Milne was so-so, Holmes missed a glorious chance to open teh scoring by humping it over, Hardie bossed the midfield

Atmosphere was excellent, and the noise was brilliant. One of the best home matches I've been to in terms of atmosphere, but one of the worst I've been to in terms of my blood pressure. The back 4 were solid enough, and, as usual, Rusty was the heart of it. Though his shot at goal shows why he's a CB!

In short, we should have won by about 5 goals to 1, were it not with the c*** with the cards.

[RINTELN SAINT]

Dunc's review says: "The 2nd half show us improve!Seconds later came the game's big controversy. Cammy Bell collected an overhit through ball and, having got to his feet, bounced the ball once only for Steven Milne to nip in and poke the ball into the net. Referee Mr Tumilty was having none of it though. Defining the ball has having been "in the goalkeeper's control" he ruled a foul and free kick to Queens much to Milne's annoyance."


Ridiculous decision even through a snow-blizzard in Michigan it looked like a stone-wall goal to me. Can anyone at the match clarify if I'm dreaming again?

Your not dreaming , your spot on soulful

[CynicalSaintee]

Dunc's review says: "The 2nd half show us improve!Seconds later came the game's big controversy. Cammy Bell collected an overhit through ball and, having got to his feet, bounced the ball once only for Steven Milne to nip in and poke the ball into the net. Referee Mr Tumilty was having none of it though. Defining the ball has having been "in the goalkeeper's control" he ruled a foul and free kick to Queens much to Milne's annoyance."


Ridiculous decision even through a snow-blizzard in Michigan it looked like a stone-wall goal to me. Can anyone at the match clarify if I'm dreaming again?

I'd agree. We may as well not even have turned up. We could have scored ten and he'd rule them out.

[THE REBEL SAINT]

Dunc's review says: "The 2nd half show us improve!Seconds later came the game's big controversy. Cammy Bell collected an overhit through ball and, having got to his feet, bounced the ball once only for Steven Milne to nip in and poke the ball into the net. Referee Mr Tumilty was having none of it though. Defining the ball has having been "in the goalkeeper's control" he ruled a foul and free kick to Queens much to Milne's annoyance."


Ridiculous decision even through a snow-blizzard in Michigan it looked like a stone-wall goal to me. Can anyone at the match clarify if I'm dreaming again?

you been on the moonshine again soulful :)

it seems a bit woeful that you cant play the ball when the keeper drops it very bad refereeing :(

[R.B.B:- Adz]

Right attitude! Wrong tactics, wrong referee and wrong result!

How that blooody Sarah whats her face can come on the radio to sum up the game and not mention the referee once is beyond me! In a capitalist society the citizens must rely on the media to put things like this into the public sphere but instead she makes a few sweeping statements about "half chances" and a "cold day in perth" and picks up her wage packet! its about time these referee's were held to a count. Some people paid a lot of money and made a lot of effort to support their team today and the outcome of the match was ultimately decided by some jumped up geek with a whistle!!!!

[CynicalSaintee]

I agree, we should have gone 4-4-2, but you can hardly call them the wrong tactics. We were all over Queens, and created so many chances I lost count. Any other day and we'd've scored 3 or 4.

In the second half, anyway. I'd've agreed with you if we'd played the whole game like in the first half.

[MUZZ]

C'mon MUzz I'm thousands of miles from home any tit-bit will do?


ok mate. in a nutshell, we were unable to break down a stubborn rearguard because of an inabilty to try something other than our usual tactics/moves. alan main saved us at the end from an even more depressing day.

[SJC]

We should have won the game with the chances we had but there was a spark missing, some of the players appeared to be going through the motions, in saying that we didn't play badly at all though

With the other games postponed there was no pressure on the players, hopefully Ross County beat Dunfermline and Livi and Dundee draw

Big crowd in today, good atmosphere in the Ormond Stand, gutted at the result though as you could see it coming

[mainstand]

Woeful team selection, woeful line-up, (some) woeful performances, woeful subs and the cruellest of refereeing decisions. Still, we're a point better off and we've got a clean sheet at home, these gritty points win titles.

Come on then 101 give us your in depth knowledge of where Del went wrong today the,

Anyone who tries to criticise the team and say things were not right when they played Queens off the park and had dozens of shots blocked and hit defenders on teh way to goal. As someone else said given a break we would have won by about 5 goals.

Cynical

Are you sure it wasn't Savo? I missed it but he was the only one around.

As for there goal the whistle went about a minute before the shot so it wasn;t really chopped off.

[slf]

C'mon MUzz I'm thousands of miles from home any tit-bit will do?


lucky you its baltic here otherwise NO COMMENT

[patsy]

MillAr morris and hardie didnt work. there was no creative spark in the middle. we missed sheerin i think

[slf]

MillAr morris and hardie didnt work. there was no creative spark in the middle. we missed sheerin i think

what do you mean think?sheerin is the dogs bollocks.he should be first name on the teamsheet always.

[CynicalSaintee]

It was a bit predictable when we attacked, yet, considering the amount of legit chances we had, we should still have won. 3 chances at open nets, 3 hoofs over.

Shooting practise, please, Del.

And I am certain it was Samuel. He was the one nearest the goalie when the ball was tapped into the net.

[SJC]

what do you mean think?sheerin is the dogs bollocks.he should be first name on the teamsheet always.

I was surprised to see Sheerin on the bench for the Second Week in a row, not bringing him on is almost criminal

[Saint1981]

Think everyone has to realise that you can't win 'em all....... Jim Thomson was rock solid at the back for QOS and it was one of those games that we could have played for another hour and never scored.

Chris Millar played excellent all day and never wasted a pass but unfortunately isn't the best infront of goal!!!

[patsy]

Nothing against mooner but i just dont get why he came on and not sheerin. he is our most creative player yet when we need something special he is on the bench

[MUZZ]

Nothing against mooner but i just dont get why he came on and not sheerin. he is our most creative player yet when we need something special he is on the bench


bang on horse boy. we missed sheerin big time.

[CynicalSaintee]

Moon almost won it for us, and he would have if it weren't for those cheating Queen defenders and that cheating ref.

[Alan Main FanClub]

MillAr morris and hardie didnt work. there was no creative spark in the middle. we missed sheerin i think

Sheerin or Moon should be playing. They should be rotated week in week out, as Moon needs experience so for next season, he can be our Paul Sheerin. Hardie's passing is shocking. Morris played well, as did Mooner when he came on. I think Ando should've came on for Hardie and pushed Craig into midfield. Millar was poor, as was Savo and Sammy. I was surprised he pulled Sherlock off, he would've buried that header that Savo put over the bar.

Main kept us in at times, the guys a saviour!! :D

[R.B.B:- Adz]

MillAr morris and hardie didnt work. there was no creative spark in the middle. we missed sheerin i think

Of course it didnt work! For the simple reason that now Del has a full squad, he does have a clue what is his best starting line up! he has started experimenting half way through the season. No easy decision when you have the player he does at his disposal but he is playing too many players out of position just to get his best team out on the pitch. There is no easy answer when carrying such a squad. Switching to a 4-3-3 is not the answer though Del.

Great response from Sammy i thought today. He looked keen as mustard and has put his hat firmly in the ring for next week. Morris also looked a class above the rest. Still lacking match fitness which showed not it fatigue but in sharpness of decisions and passing/shooting ect.

[CynicalSaintee]

Great response from Sammy i thought today. He looked keen as mustard and has put his hat firmly in the ring for next week. Morris also looked a class above the rest. Still lacking match fitness which showed not it fatigue but in sharpness of decisions and passing/shooting ect.

I'd agree there. Samuel was all over the shop, and Morris was much improved.

[Dave H]

Seconds later came the game's big controversy. Cammy Bell collected an overhit through ball and, having got to his feet, bounced the ball once only for Steven Milne to nip in and poke the ball into the net. Referee Mr Tumilty was having none of it though. Defining the ball has having been "in the goalkeeper's control" he ruled a foul and free kick to Queens much to Milne's annoyance.

how did you hear that it was in the goalkeepers control? the ref afterwards appeared to be indicating a pull of the shirt? Surely this is another example of terrible refereeing that we are subjected to in the first division?

the goal should have stood.

No idea how we managed to draw a blank. Only if Holmes scored in the first half into the Ormond end, now that would have been a good goal :D He missed the target, shooting inches wide at the goal post junction.

[patsy]

best i have seen from sammy. and he never slipped once

[CynicalSaintee]

best i have seen from sammy. and he never slipped once

And it was an icy pitch, too!

Looks like he's finally hit match fitness, so we should see the best from him.

[Oldmuirton]

I don't know how many times we have seen it now. We are not the same team without Sheerin. Nobody was particulary bad today, despite the result. But without Sheerin we don't have the same creativity. We had dozens of crosses into the box today but without the quality that Sheerin delivers. Can't understand why Del didn't bring him on.

[patsy]

And it was an icy pitch, too!

Looks like he's finally hit match fitness, so we should see the best from him.

ironic he is never off his arse normally and today when its an icy pitch he is superb

[R.B.B:- Adz]

Looks like he's finally hit match fitness, so we should see the best from him.

Cynical he is about 3 full 90minutes off match fitness. Needs an extended run, his pace was frightening at times. Just needed something more creative to run on to!

[CynicalSaintee]

Cynical he is about 3 full 90minutes off match fitness. Needs an extended run, his pace was frightening at times. Just needed something more creative to run on to!

In that case, if he was that fast and tricksy today, he'll be awesome when fully fit. Anyone see him in the warm up? They were having a kick-about, and he ran at Rusty, and just span around him like he was never even there!

[R.B.B:- Adz]

Exactly mate. Given him the run in the team he has been craving he will spark the goals we've been lacking. He is the guy that when on fire on a saturday afternoon will grab you 2 or 3 goals a game when utilised correctly. If Sammy and Jody are given 2 or 3 games of a run in the starting line-up, the wins we want are just around the corner.

[soulfulsaint]

you been on the moonshine again soulful :)

:(

...just a few glasses of Jack Daniels and my Paul Sheerin nude book.

[soulfulsaint]

I don't know how many times we have seen it now. We are not the same team without Sheerin. Nobody was particulary bad today, despite the result. But without Sheerin we don't have the same creativity. We had dozens of crosses into the box today but without the quality that Sheerin delivers. Can't understand why Del didn't bring him on.

Old but wise Muirton.

[crieffsaint]

There is no easy answer when carrying such a squad. Switching to a 4-4-3 is not the answer though Del.
.


didn't realise you could have 12 players on the pitch!!

[saintee4life]

it was savo who nipped the ball fae the goalie an it shouldve counted

[saintee4life]

Not really accurate.

1. It was Samuel that poked the ball past the keeper for the disallowed goal.

2.Queens also had a goal ruled out.

3. We had two handball shouts turned down.

4. We had 2 goals ruled out, Sammy's goal, and Moon's rocket which was flying into the net, only for one of the Queens to play keeper and blatantly punch it out. There was no ambiguity about it, from where I sat. He raised his hand, and smacked the ball down in front of him.

5. Holmes was in an attacking position, ready to cross, when a Queen defender pulled him to the ground, and hoofed it up. Moments later, a Queen was cleanly tackled, and fell over, but teh free kick was given the other way.

We should have won 5-0, but our shooting was utterly woeful, and the referee was one of the most incompetent I've seen - something we've been saying with concerning regularity, this season.

We couldn't have played better, when it came to getting forward, and we defended reasonably well. Main was excellent and made some good, critical decisions at important times. Though his kicking was also shite, as usual.

Moon was excellent when he came on, although lost the ball once by fannying about. Though fully redeemed himself and should have scored, if not for the ref. Millar had a stinker, at least in front of goal.

Morris was alright, leading the team well and, as always, getting stuck right in.

Samuel was excellent, winning the ball in midfield and winning us lots of free kicks in dangerous positions (only for MIllar or some other clod to make an absolute arse of it).

Milne was so-so, Holmes missed a glorious chance to open teh scoring by humping it over, Hardie bossed the midfield

Atmosphere was excellent, and the noise was brilliant. One of the best home matches I've been to in terms of atmosphere, but one of the worst I've been to in terms of my blood pressure. The back 4 were solid enough, and, as usual, Rusty was the heart of it. Though his shot at goal shows why he's a CB!

In short, we should have won by about 5 goals to 1, were it not with the c*** with the cards.wot game were you at??

[CynicalSaintee]

wot game were you at??

Ach, I have manflu. I can barely remember what I had for tea yesterday :laugh:

[Brian Potter]

That was disapointing!

Too many crosses not making it passed the first defender!

I don't like the 4-3-3, or the 4-3------3 like it was today! It got to the stage when the front three were simply lined up waiting for the big punt up the middle!

Just a word on the ref, he wasn't the worst Ive seen this season but the amount of times Holmes came together with their defender and nothing was given? Surely if he is not awarded a freekick then a foul must be given against him because a foul is being commited?

We'll still win the league

[101 Saint]

Anyone who tries to criticise the team and say things were not right when they played Queens off the park and had dozens of shots blocked and hit defenders on teh way to goal. As someone else said given a break we would have won by about 5 goals.

But we didn't play them off the park. How many saves did their keeper make? Don't give me the bollocks about their defenders blocking shots; that's what good defenders do (see Ando, James, Lauchlan, Innes, Thomson, McKenzie et al) Our best chances were long range shots. Craig and Gaz were stranded without support thanks to Del. Millar and Hardie didn't seem to know where they playing. The strikers were all over the place and so our creative players didn't know where the runs were coming from. Last season proved that 4-3-3 doesn't work and he's reverted to it again!

Sammy only showed interest when the ball was within a 10 yard radius of his favoured foot. How many managers successfully tinker with a productive strike partnership?

Why on earth was Millar subbed? He was finally looking like breaking his duck. Why did Morris start over Mooner? he's so far away from being match fit it's unreal. As others have noted, Peanut should have come on for one of the strikers; his passing could have unlocked their defence and his calming influence would have been a blessing.

I remain convinced we'll win the league, but no thanks to Del's tactics.

[saintee4life]

liam craig has to play in midfield hes wasted at full back an the team needs him higher up the park

[saintj]

right first of all the ref had a stinker but its our own fault we did not win the game not the refs

savo's first touch was mince today. sammy played well, won quite alot of headers and kept the ball really well, thought he should of been given a free role in the 2nd half, holmes as we know missed that chance but did all right i thought. peaso was good when he came on, won quite a few headers, shame he headered over just after he came on

was it just me or did hardie not have the mad mental in him today, bottled out of a tackle and his passing was gash. morris did well enough i thought, passed reasonably well, millAr canny shoot when although i think his real chance was deflected, moon for me did well and should have started

irvine i thought was our top defender today, supported the attack very well and went on a few runs. craig couldnt find a man with the crosses, caff and rusty were ok, worried whenever dobbie got the ball at his feet

the 433 today wasnt quite right even though we dominated most of the game, we played to close to each other up front, there were times when the wrong pass was made up front and more often than not the midfield never spotted the through ball in between the defenders

but in saying all that if it were not for some last ditch tackles and poor crossing we could of won at a canter, i think sammy needs to find space to run more at defenders 1 on 1

where was swankie? he could of done a good job for us the day

[R.B.B:- Adz]

A words on queens tactics by the way. Negative or what. Not a team with title aspirations in my eyes. 11 behind the ball for vast majority.

[101 Saint]

A words on queens tactics by the way. Negative or what. Not a team with title aspirations in my eyes. 11 behind the ball for vast majority.

I think their tactics complimented their recent form. Thomson's tactics reflected the poor standard of reffing in the game. He should have had at least three yellows!

[saintj]

they were playing counter attacking, werent as bad as hamilton, in the first half queens did all right

[Broon]

I think a few people are overreacting but it was still quite poor today.

I agree the 4-3-3 was a failure, and looking at the line up I'm not surprised. If you are going to play with three strikers, the central striker has to be Holmes, with the other two playing off him. Instead, Holmes was the one running into chanels which was nothing short of silly. Also, our midfield was struggling on the two wings, with the two big gaps left by our 3 central midfielders. Martin Hardie cannot play on the left hand side of anywhere.

Saying that, we turned it around in the second half a wee bit and we played some nice football. Especially with Morris, Moon and Samuel all playing very well. We just couldn't break them down and our finishing to be fair was pretty poor.

I thought we had learned at the start of the season that 4-3-3 doesn't work in this team but hopefully we have now. I also thought Holmes was lucky to get a game this week because he's been poor for 3 or 4 games now (did he beat Jim Thompson in the air once today?). Hopefully next week we go back to 4-4-2 and get some natural balance back in the side.

[saintj]

why dont we ever play 433 with wingers, ie, sheerin and swankie or possibly sammy, if we had wingers hugging the wide lines we would really be able to stretch there defense and create more space in the final third, the way we play 433 doesnt work often enough

[saintee4life]

was swankie injured or dropped the day? personally i would play him wide left an think he would have suited the days game especially against their rb who looked prone to rash tackles

[MUZZ]

was swankie injured or dropped the day? personally i would play him wide left an think he would have suited the days game especially against their rb who looked prone to rash tackles

dropped for last 2 weeks

[saintj]

dropped for last 2 weeks

an away against dundee is fair enough but not even making the bench at home, surely there must be more to it than that?

[101 Saint]

I think a few people are overreacting but it was still quite poor today.

I thought we had learned at the start of the season that 4-3-3 doesn't work in this team but hopefully we have now. I also thought Holmes was lucky to get a game this week because he's been poor for 3 or 4 games now (did he beat Jim Thompson in the air once today?). Hopefully next week we go back to 4-4-2 and get some natural balance back in the side.

I am really seething tonight. Four points thrown away in three weeks and he's reputedly cocked up (again) signing a left back!

How the frig can Del not know that 4-3-3 disnae work. It never has and it never will. We don't have the players.

You're bit harsh on Homer. Against Clyde, his departure weakened us, against the Scum, we were poor and today he diverted a net bound strike by Queens. At one point Del had him on the wing:twisted:

His partnership with Savo is very productive. He can't beat Thugson, when he's being strangled. Jimmy T should have walked today. Dirty brute.

[saintj]

He can't beat Thugson, when he's being strangled. Jimmy T should have walked today. Dirty brute.

the ref should of clamped down on it, if your getting away with it then jt will see it as fair game

[mainstand]

I am really seething tonight. Four points thrown away in three weeks and he's reputedly cocked up (again) signing a left back!

How the frig can Del not know that 4-3-3 disnae work. It never has and it never will. We don't have the players.

You're bit harsh on Homer. Against Clyde, his departure weakened us, against the Scum, we were poor and today he diverted a net bound strike by Queens. At one point Del had him on the wing:twisted:

His partnership with Savo is very productive. He can't beat Thugson, when he's being strangled. Jimmy T should have walked today. Dirty brute.

101 your head is really right up your own arse!!

What is this constant digs at Del did he release you or tell you were shite or something?? Because it really is getting a bit tiresome!

Do you want to share your inside knowledge on teh reputed cock up??

[saintee4life]

I am really seething tonight. Four points thrown away in three weeks and he's reputedly cocked up (again) signing a left back!

How the frig can Del not know that 4-3-3 disnae work. It never has and it never will. We don't have the players.

You're bit harsh on Homer. Against Clyde, his departure weakened us, against the Scum, we were poor and today he diverted a net bound strike by Queens. At one point Del had him on the wing:twisted:

His partnership with Savo is very productive. He can't beat Thugson, when he's being strangled. Jimmy T should have walked today. Dirty brute.wots the cocked up wi the left back bit?

[MUZZ]

101 is correct.

4-3-3 was a shambles of a formation to start with today.

[101 Saint]

101 your head is really right up your own arse!!

What is this constant digs at Del did he release you or tell you were shite or something?? Because it really is getting a bit tiresome!

Do you want to share your inside knowledge on teh reputed cock up??

Why don't you use the thread to post your thoughts on the game rather than having a pop at other forumers?

You asked in what areas Del cocked up today and when presented with them you then post a stream of inane clauses.

[mainstand]

101 is correct.

4-3-3 was a shambles of a formation to start with today.

Why!!

He actually started more with Savo playing in teh whole in front of teh midfield 3. If it had come off and we had won would we having this conversation?? NO we wouldn't. This thing hindsight is a helluva good thing.

[Saint1981]

For those who were wondering what Swankie was doing today......he was sitting infront of me eating a steak and gravy pie!!!

Wasn't injured just dropped from starting squad.

[Broon]

4-3-3 CAN work - it just doesn't work with the current bunch of players. I remember us playing 4-3-3 against Dundee Utd, St Mirren and Falkirk in the cup. I didn't hear any complaints when we were pumping those three teams.

It's not the formation - it's these players AND the formation together.

[saintj]

well mainstand he did change from 442 which we have done pretty well with so there was no need to change it

[MUZZ]

Why!!

He actually started more with Savo playing in teh whole in front of teh midfield 3. If it had come off and we had won would we having this conversation?? NO we wouldn't. This thing hindsight is a helluva good thing.

why? we haven't played 443 all season and played well. we then play it and hardly have a shot on goal 1st half. stick to what you know and all that la.................

p.s and yes i would have mentioned it even if we sneaked a goal. i aint some blurryeyed, knuckle dragging hooligan despite what the wannabe middle class brigade might think.

[Broon]

Why!!

He actually started more with Savo playing in teh whole in front of teh midfield 3. If it had come off and we had won would we having this conversation?? NO we wouldn't. This thing hindsight is a helluva good thing.

Unfortunatley Savo doesn't have the ability to play in the hole. His touch was much better than normal today but he isn't creative and you need creativity in that position. He's a good striker but he has to be the furthest man forward.

[saintj]

tbh broon, i dont think we play the 433 right, we cannot stretch the play quick enough and rely on the full backs to support as wingers, 2 midfielders go out to the wings which jam packs the forward area, if we had actual wingers on the wing it would work far better imo

[slf]

no comment

[bleacher]

4-3-3 was a disaster and the final ball today was dreadful but we still had enough chances to win the game. Thought the keeper had dropped the ball to kick it when Milne put it into the net - I also thought the ref gave it and then changed his mind, but that could have been wishful thinking :) We had a really good shout for a pen near then end for handball too, but it was just one of those days.

One gripe though, why when we have three up front are all of them brought back to defend corners? It doesn't make sense.

[mainstand]

why? we haven't played 443 all season and played well. we then play it and hardly have a shot on goal 1st half. stick to what you know and all that la.................

p.s and yes i would have mentioned it even if we sneaked a goal. i aint some blurryeyed, knuckle dragging hooligan despite what the wannabe middle class brigade might think.

Muzz I actually agree!! I said half wa through taht we should bring on sheerin and take off Savo. The manager and his coaching staff obviously felt that playing 3 up would give us more options and give us width, but on teh day it didn't work.

As Gordon Strachan said last season fans are obsessed with formations and 4-3-3 / 4-4-2 etc it's the players that make a game and not the formation.

One thing taht no one has done, and that is to give some credit to Queens and the way they defended, stopping crosses getting in is one thing they were obviously working on.

[CynicalSaintee]

4-3-3 was a disaster and the final ball today was dreadful but we still had enough chances to win the game. Thought the keeper had dropped the ball to kick it when Milne put it into the net - I also thought the ref gave it and then changed his mind, but that could have been wishful thinking :) We had a really good shout for a pen near then end for handball too, but it was just one of those days.

One gripe though, why when we have three up front are all of them brought back to defend corners? It doesn't make sense.

Holmes is a big man, so should be effective picking out crosses in the box for corners. That's the only excuse I can think of for one of them...

[MUZZ]

Muzz I actually agree!! I said half wa through taht we should bring on sheerin and take off Savo. The manager and his coaching staff obviously felt that playing 3 up would give us more options and give us width, but on teh day it didn't work.

As Gordon Strachan said last season fans are obsessed with formations and 4-3-3 / 4-4-2 etc it's the players that make a game and not the formation.

One thing taht no one has done, and that is to give some credit to Queens and the way they defended, stopping crosses getting in is one thing they were obviously working on.

perhaps if celtic fans shut up about martin o'neill for a minute they would realise they had a good manager who has achieved more than martin did.

i agree that queens did the job they came to do but we helped them get the draw.

[Broon]

tbh broon, i dont think we play the 433 right, we cannot stretch the play quick enough and rely on the full backs to support as wingers, 2 midfielders go out to the wings which jam packs the forward area, if we had actual wingers on the wing it would work far better imo

Actually I thought we stretched the play really well today. Morris is excellent at that. Unfortunately the cross balls into the box were poor. Holmes couldn't be arsed attacking a cross all day - he was a disaster. I would have abandonded trying to go down the wings at half time. Jim Thompson was absolutely outstanding for them today and there was no way we were winning a header.

We should have took the old man out on the deck.

[saintj]

it was amusing seeing jody take the front post at corners, holmes marked dobbie for the corners, besides del always has everyone back for the corners

[Chuck Norris]

Why don't you use the thread to post your thoughts on the game rather than having a pop at other forumers?

You asked in what areas Del cocked up today and when presented with them you then post a stream of inane clauses.
You seem to prefer attacking Del to talking about the game. We're top of the league for flip's sake, and whatever happens elsewhere, that's not going to change because of today's result alone.

The man makes mistakes but I'm sure you've burnt some chips before now too.

[101 Saint]

Why!!

He actually started more with Savo playing in teh whole in front of teh midfield 3. If it had come off and we had won would we having this conversation?? NO we wouldn't. This thing hindsight is a helluva good thing.

Feck me! Hindsight? How many times have I posted that 4-3-3 won't work. The three games Broon mentions involve SPL teams.

Read what you type Mainstand. Savo, our top scorer, started in the hole. The hole that he played in at Dingwall last year, when he had his worst ever game for us?!

If we had won? I would still criticise him because it still would have been the wrong line-up.

I'm not anti -Del. I'm very angry at our current results and fuming that we've reverted to a failed system.

ps Mainstand. I am terrible at football. Don't know if that makes you happy or not, nor do I care.

I'm now off to enjoy the Cheeky Girls, that should allow Mainstand time to comment on the game today:?

[saintj]

if we were to play the 433 the way i suggest we can play it on the ground because once the play is stretched there is space for the midfield to come in and support the lone striker, i think the way del plays 433 it is more suited to counter attacking because the 3 strikers play so close to each other

[THE REBEL SAINT]

it was amusing seeing jody take the front post at corners, holmes marked dobbie for the corners, besides del always has everyone back for the corners

i dont personaly like having everyone back at corners,there was a couple of occasions to-day when main got the ball theres no one up the pitch to give the ball to.so you have to wait and by that time the other teams back in defence.

[mainstand]

ps Mainstand. I am terrible at football. Don't know if that makes you happy or not, nor do I care.

I'm now off to enjoy the Cheeky Girls, that should allow Mainstand time to comment on the game today:?

If you read posts you will see I already have.

Enjoy the cheeky girls!!

[saintj]

i dont personaly like having everyone back at corners,there was a couple of occasions to-day when main got the ball theres no one up the pitch to give the ball to.so you have to wait and by that time the other teams back in defence.

yes i would have left sammy and savo up front for the corners, having everyone back in the box increases the chance of a mistake or a scramble imo leaving the 2 up front would have made queens a wee bit more cautious at them

[Cagey]

Queens started well & put us under pressure until we took control midway through first half.
Second half they just sat back & we couldn`t break them down. I just couldn`t believe it when I saw us lining up 433. Fair enough if you are struggling in a game change it but why start with 433 when we have been doing well .
Would it not have been better with Swankie out wide if we were playing 433.

Subs were left too late & Millar was playing the best he had all game apart from shooting from outside the box. Hardie or Morris should have been the players subed as they are not match fit yet.

Could have had a couple of pens when the centre half climbed all over Ruti in the first half & hand balled in the box in the second. Barr was all over Holmes like a rash & got away with it all game & that is why Homer had his worst game for us.

3 points from 3 games against the poorest teams in the league is not promotion form.

[THE REBEL SAINT]

yes i would have left sammy and savo up front for the corners, having everyone back in the box increases the chance of a mistake or a scramble imo leaving the 2 up front would have made queens a wee bit more cautious at them

if you leave 2 up they will at least leave 3 back,

[saintj]

if you leave 2 up they will at least leave 3 back,

but but with sammy and savo's pace along with sammy's ability on the ball and to win headers it would still give us a chance of a break away either kicked from main or a clearance

[StDuncM]

3 points from 3 games against the poorest teams in the league is not promotion form.

Perhaps not but we were favourites at the start of the season and we were getting humped. Then we went on a good run and we are not losing.

There will be good, bad and indifferent displays throughout the season.

The others are still in the hunt but it is not them in pole position.

[CynicalSaintee]

Queens started well & put us under pressure until we took control midway through first half.
Second half they just sat back & we couldn`t break them down. I just couldn`t believe it when I saw us lining up 433. Fair enough if you are struggling in a game change it but why start with 433 when we have been doing well .
Would it not have been better with Swankie out wide if we were playing 433.

Subs were left too late & Millar was playing the best he had all game apart from shooting from outside the box. Hardie or Morris should have been the players subed as they are not match fit yet.

Could have had a couple of pens when the centre half climbed all over Ruti in the first half & hand balled in the box in the second. Barr was all over Holmes like a rash & got away with it all game & that is why Homer had his worst game for us.

3 points from 3 games against the poorest teams in the league is not promotion form.

10 games unbeaten is.

[Al C]

Why on earth was Millar subbed? He was finally looking like breaking his duck. Why did Morris start over Mooner? he's so far away from being match fit it's unreal.

I thought Morris played very well today, especially in the second half. He drove forward more than I expected him too and kept the ball well. He played better than Millar who has not been himself in the last few games. Millar wasted a good few opportunities today, his shooting was woeful. This probably contributed to him being taken off.

[Thomas_sjfc]

Bit pish the day t.b.h, but still if we play poor and we are still five points clear i won't complain.

B.T.W where is the MOTM poll, is it just me or is it still not there>

[Al C]

Woeful team selection, woeful line-up, (some) woeful performances, woeful subs and the cruellest of refereeing decisions. Still, we're a point better off and we've got a clean sheet at home, these gritty points win titles.

Do you seriously believe the stuff you type? Everything was woeful was it? Out of interest how did you describe the game at Firhill earlier in the season?

A home game so went 4-3-3, very positive. First half was poor but second half we were all over them. As someone else has said it could have been 4 or 5 nil. Queens were quite happy with their nil nil draw. There is no chance they will be challenging in my opinion.

The referee was once again absolutely woeful. A justified use of that word in that sentence.

[Al C]

Not really accurate.

1. It was Samuel that poked the ball past the keeper for the disallowed goal.



Err, pretty sure it was Savo?

[saintj]

al, tbh we didnt really create many clear cut chances for all our time on the ball, it was savo who poked it in

i wouldnt completely write off queens yet either, they were very determined to stop there bad run of form and we recovered well enough from our bad start

[Mike180279]

morris was great, made a few errors but he is trying things that perhaps not coming off. He will get better, we will win this league.

[StDuncM]

10 games unbeaten is.

11 according to the official site. When was the last time we went so long unbeaten?

[Al C]

A words on queens tactics by the way. Negative or what. Not a team with title aspirations in my eyes. 11 behind the ball for vast majority.

Totally agree. They seemed to be having a go for the first 10 mins or so and came close to scoring but then totally shut up shop. They won't win the league.

Anyone know how much injury time was added on at the end? There should have been at least five minutes with their time wasting.

[Al C]

How the frig can Del not know that 4-3-3 disnae work. It never has and it never will. We don't have the players.



What formation did we play at Love Street last season? Or in the cup semi against Rangers?

[saintj]

433 with i think savo in the whole so kind of like a narrow 442diamond at love st not sure against gers, 442 i think

[CynicalSaintee]

Err, pretty sure it was Savo?

Okay, it was Savo. I stand corrected. :(

[Al C]

Read what you type Mainstand. Savo, our top scorer

Why are we talking about Savo anyway? Did McInnes not get rid of him in the summer? I seem to remember somebody coming on here saying he was not rated by the management and would be on the way out. Perhaps I am spectacuarly misinformed though.

[CynicalSaintee]

11 according to the official site. When was the last time we went so long unbeaten?

The close season?

[CynicalSaintee]

Why are we talking about Savo anyway? Did McInnes not get rid of him in the summer? I seem to remember somebody coming on here saying he was not rated by the management and would be on the way out. Perhaps I am spectacuarly misinformed though.

:confused:


He's scored 7 league goals and a cup goal for us this season. Whoever told you's clearly been overdoing the skunk.

[Al C]

al, tbh we didnt really create many clear cut chances for all our time on the ball, it was savo who poked it in


Agreed, our final ball was poor at times and as you say we did not create many clear cut chances. Territorially however we were far superior and with a simple break of the ball on a couple of occasions would have got our goals.

It is frustrating drawing nil nil at home and not pressing home our advantage but I would be far more concerned if the performance had been poor. In my view it wasn't and we move on to next week.

[StDuncM]

The close season?

Cynic!

[Al C]

:confused:


He's scored 7 league goals and a cup goal for us this season. Whoever told you's clearly been overdoing the skunk.

Apologies Cynical; that comment was made for someone elses benefit in relation to a pre season topic on here. Another poster made the claim Del did not rate Savo and would get rid of him.

[Al C]

We should never have got rid of Dobbie/Tosh/McQuilken/Weatherston (delete as applicable).

Or David Bingham for that matter.

[SaintSam1884]

A home game so went 4-3-3, very positive.

Or as my friend Kyle says, very negative...

The inclusion of the third striker at the expense of a midfielder only served to descend the midfield into a complete disfunctional mess that was neither capable of going forward nor protecting the defence. Irvine and Craig were left exposed and their allowance to attack drastically reduced because they knew they'd have to bolt back almost as quickly as they'd moved forward. Usually - on the right especially - Irvine and Millar will overlap and support one another in both directions. That happened on neither side today. It was an absolute shambles.

The formation was the reason the team was unable to put together any sort of coherent performance today. Playing with three men up front doesn't always equate to positive play and lots of goals. It's no coincidence that today was the first time we'd failed to score in a game since Partick Thistle demolished us 4-0 at Firhill in August! It's also no coincidence that today was about as bad as we've played since that game.

You don't always need to include a third striker to be more attacking. We could've played Millar on the right and Swankie on the left of a four man midfield with Hardie in a more suitable central role and Morris plodding about in there too. I'd be willing to bet that Millar and Swankie playing down either side with Irvine and Craig in support would make us a million times more threatening that we were today with the uninspired inclusion of that 'positive' third striker.

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Shit game, poor display, shite ref, wrong formation, wrong starting 11. Far too many below par perfomances.1 point gained though and 5 points clear.Lets move on to Greenock Morton Can someone in the know tell Del to get a player at the front post when we have a corner please.Then when a corner is not hit well enough that player can flick it on.This works, honestly I have seen it done.. It aint fecking rocket science..

The End....

[SaintSam1884]

A word on Queens. They simply struck me as a side who were trying not to lose. Negative, certainly but in light of their recent poor form and some heavy defeats, that's exactly what they need to do. They need to shut teams out and once they have learnt to do that, only then can they work on getting back to winning ways. They will view this as a good point and rightly so.

[THE REBEL SAINT]

A word on Queens. They simply struck me as a side who were trying not to lose. Negative, certainly but in light of their recent poor form and some heavy defeats, that's exactly what they need to do. They need to shut teams out and once they have learnt to do that, only then can they work on getting back to winning ways. They will view this as a good point and rightly so.

they always play like that away from home

[CynicalSaintee]

Palmerstone is usually a fortress, so they must be relying on winning their home games and eking out results away from home. That would certainly explain today's result.

[GeorgetheSaint]

Look, the team didn't play at their best today, but we still should've won with a few very good chances, and Savo's legitimate goal. The main problem about today, was the sudden change of formation after going so long without defeat. I think most people would agree that Holmes, Savo combination has bee very productive for us, and Savo has obviously been scoring alot of goals. So why oh why has he been told to play deeper behind another two strikers. It doesnt suit him at all, he plays off the shoulder of defenders and has great movement, which cant be used in that position. Is Del just trying to accomodate Sammy in the team??

[CynicalSaintee]

I wouldn't blame him. He's got to use all his more expensive players as much as he can to justify their purchase, Sammy in particular. Although after today's display, you'd be a fool to question his selection.

[Cagey]

Bit pish the day t.b.h, but still if we play poor and we are still five points clear i won't complain.

B.T.W where is the MOTM poll, is it just me or is it still not there>

Think Radders usually sets it up but he must still be in the pub as I haven`t noticed him posting on here or P & B tonight.

[Mike180279]

thought Sammy was good today. would like to see him and Savo. Swankie on the left.

[Al C]

I think the intention in playing 4-3-3 was positive but completely agree that you can still play 4-4-2 and be positive. However I think we played decently enough in the second half and had we got the goals we deserved then the formation would have been fine. I also don't think the performance was any worse than the Thistle or Airdrie home games, both of which were won.

Or as my friend Kyle says, very negative...

The inclusion of the third striker at the expense of a midfielder only served to descend the midfield into a complete disfunctional mess that was neither capable of going forward nor protecting the defence. Irvine and Craig were left exposed and their allowance to attack drastically reduced because they knew they'd have to bolt back almost as quickly as they'd moved forward. Usually - on the right especially - Irvine and Millar will overlap and support one another in both directions. That happened on neither side today. It was an absolute shambles.

The formation was the reason the team was unable to put together any sort of coherent performance today. Playing with three men up front doesn't always equate to positive play and lots of goals. It's no coincidence that today was the first time we'd failed to score in a game since Partick Thistle demolished us 4-0 at Firhill in August! It's also no coincidence that today was about as bad as we've played since that game.

You don't always need to include a third striker to be more attacking. We could've played Millar on the right and Swankie on the left of a four man midfield with Hardie in a more suitable central role and Morris plodding about in there too. I'd be willing to bet that Millar and Swankie playing down either side with Irvine and Craig in support would make us a million times more threatening that we were today with the uninspired inclusion of that 'positive' third striker.

[slf]

Think Radders usually sets it up but he must still be in the pub as I haven`t noticed him posting on here or P & B tonight.

hally feckin lu yah

[GeorgetheSaint]

Dont get me wrong, i didn't mean i dont rate sammy, or that he didnt play well today, i thought he was ok. But what i meant was that is it justified to change a system to accomodate one player?? especially when we're on such a good unbeaten run. IMH Personnel, yes(although i wouldnt change the front two at all), system, no. Even play him wide, thats actually where he's more effective anyway.

[SaintSam1884]

Al - I agree that the intention was positive but the reality was not. McInnes cannot necessarily be criticised for not being a psychic as few of us are but it was clear throughout the match that it wasn't working and he chose to implement like for like substitutions rather than changing things. For that he deserves some criticism. Through it all though, we remain unbeaten. Credit where it's due for that.

[SlickDT]

Or as my friend Kyle says, very negative...

The inclusion of the third striker at the expense of a midfielder only served to descend the midfield into a complete disfunctional mess that was neither capable of going forward nor protecting the defence. Irvine and Craig were left exposed and their allowance to attack drastically reduced because they knew they'd have to bolt back almost as quickly as they'd moved forward. Usually - on the right especially - Irvine and Millar will overlap and support one another in both directions. That happened on neither side today. It was an absolute shambles.

The formation was the reason the team was unable to put together any sort of coherent performance today. Playing with three men up front doesn't always equate to positive play and lots of goals. It's no coincidence that today was the first time we'd failed to score in a game since Partick Thistle demolished us 4-0 at Firhill in August! It's also no coincidence that today was about as bad as we've played since that game.

You don't always need to include a third striker to be more attacking. We could've played Millar on the right and Swankie on the left of a four man midfield with Hardie in a more suitable central role and Morris plodding about in there too. I'd be willing to bet that Millar and Swankie playing down either side with Irvine and Craig in support would make us a million times more threatening that we were today with the uninspired inclusion of that 'positive' third striker.

Couldn't agree more, this may sound a bit strange but I suggested to my friends a few times that bringing on a midfileder for a striker could be a more creative sub, than another striker.

I would have brought on Sheerin for Holmes at first to make it-

Millar-Hardie-Morris-Sherin
Sammy-Savo

[ancientsaint]

We didnt lose and are ahead of the chasing pack.......long way to go - but we seem to get a nose bleed when we are top.

Surprised Savo's goal didnt stand and ref has made one excuse to justify his decision-he bottled it.

[Carse of Gowrie Saint]

Next weeks game will be the same as todays with Morton happy to leave with a draw. We have to go back to a 4 4 2 with Sheerin coming into the left side of midfield at the expense of one of the forwards.

We must beat Morton on Saturday, 3 points from the last 3 games is not good enough !

[R.B.B:- Adz]

We should never have got rid of Dobbie/Tosh/McQuilken/Weatherston (delete as applicable).

Or David Bingham for that matter.


Crazy post! with the exception of McQuilken for the simple fact that we dont own a leftback, who out of that list would you propose would get near our first team??? Even then i'd probably still prefer Liam or Ando at left back.

[SlickDT]

Crazy post! with the exception of McQuilken for the simple fact that we dont own a leftback, who out of that list would you propose would get near our first team??? Even then i'd probably still prefer Liam or Ando at left back.

Think the post was a joke mate.

[Tranmere Saintee]

Apologies Cynical; that comment was made for someone elses benefit in relation to a pre season topic on here. Another poster made the claim Del did not rate Savo and would get rid of him.

Al, can you give us 101 reasons for this comment:D

[SaintSam1884]

Crazy post! with the exception of McQuilken for the simple fact that we dont own a leftback, who out of that list would you propose would get near our first team??? Even then i'd probably still prefer Liam or Ando at left back.

Although he was joking, Stephen Dobbie is undeniably good.

[Broon]

It seems the ref was correct with the savo incident. If a goalie bounces the ball he is still in possession and anyone interfering is fouling the goalie.

[SaintSam1884]

Savo is in one of todays papers saying otherwise, and that he's scored a number of similar goals in the past - albeit at reserve level - and they have stood. Either way, it only serves to show how poor we were yesterday.

[Kevin]

It seems the ref was correct with the savo incident. If a goalie bounces the ball he is still in possession and anyone interfering is fouling the goalie.

I thought Bell had started to roll the ball out to ground kick it, if that is the case the Savo was in the right to try and score and can understand how upset he was!

I remember George Best hooking a ball out the air into Gordon Bank's net during the home internationals in 1973. Referee stopped tha gema and consulted with his linesmen, shrugged and gave a free kick for a high boot from Best. I do not think there is anything in the rules about this but am happy for the Mad Referee or Chopper to put me right.

[Radford 72]

I've not read the rest of thread yet but will do in due course. Just want to put my thoughts down before doing so.

I think it's important not to start panicking because of the result yesterday but it is vital that the manager learns from what IMO was another mistake. He said in the build up this week that he doesn't follow the suggestion that you keep a winning team together but whilst the odd change is acceptable, his wholesale shuffling of the pack caused us problems, as it did in August. It's not hard to understand his reasons as he clearly wanted to include Samuel in the side as his pace would cause them problems but we haven't played 4-3-3 since that disasterous day at Firhill and it showed yesterday.

I can't really fault any individual performances, certainly in terms of effort, but it just didn't work as a unit and I hope he realises that now. He's been criticised for not changing things but that's another problem of the 4-3-3, you can't be seen to take a striker off for a midfielder when you're chasing the game. I suspect he's trying to keep all the players happy as well but the simple fact is that you can't keep 20 players happy as if the guys not involved are content then there's something wrong with them. At the same time, they have to appreciate we've been on a good run and need to be patient.

So, unfortunately the main negatives fall at the feet of the manager but the other problem was the lack of composure at key times. We got ourselves into good areas yesterday but I struggle to recall anyone showing a cool head when required. Not sure why as the players shouldn't feel under that much pressure. He's been very good this season but Chris Millar needs to start showing a bit more in front of goal. He's had very good chances to open his account in the past couple of home matches but has just swung his foot at the ball. For a guy that looks so relaxed in possession in the centre of the park, it's strange that he goes to pieces in the box. Another complaint would be the defence still fannying about on occasion, like last week, instead of just clearing their lines.

Positives to be taken to though. Another clean sheet for that defensive unit (we've only conceded 3 goals in the 7 matches they've started together) and Morris' performance was up a notch from last week. I thought it would take him ages to get going but at this rate, it's not going to be too long. He constantly made himself available for the pass and as the anchorman in the midfield, pushed right up to make sure the midfield were supporting the strikers. Don't think he wasted a pass all afternoon. Samuel too showed that he's the sort of player that can make the difference in matches.

Of the incidents, it was PK for me. The ball travelled a long distance after leaving Moon's boot and Aitken was trying to block the ball with his body. I didn't actually see Savo's "goal" as I was looking at the scoreboard since played had stopped. Don't think I've ever seen one of those allowed to stand though. Whilst I don't think he should have been sent off, for me Aitken's challenge is the sort that we should be penalising more heavily. Just took the man out as he broke towards the area. Generally the ref wasn't the worst though, although Derek Holmes must be doing something I can't see as he gets nothing every week.

Queens will be happy with their point and clean sheet. They set up as they have on their last couple of visits but this time got some reward.

[Cagey]

Can`t disagree with muck of what Radders says upart from not knowing how Aitken coyuld have been dealt more harshly if not a red. Is there a card between yellow & red.

Homer is important in defence as well as attack. He was being fouled every time he rose for the ball yesterday but the ref gave him nothing. The other thing yesterday ,Savo was playing out wide bwcause of 433 & not in a position to take his flick ons either by head or foot.

Morris had agood game but I think the players feel everything has to go through him & limits our options.

[Radford 72]

Can`t disagree with muck of what Radders says upart from not knowing how Aitken coyuld have been dealt more harshly if not a red. Is there a card between yellow & red.
Basically, I think the rules should be that challenges like that merit a red card. I know the rules aren't like that though, so the ref called it right. Sammy was breaking in on goal and the guy made no attempt to win the ball.

[sjfc_camo]

i agree it was cynical he knew what e was doing if he never brought down sammy it wud have been a 3-2 and possible goal so i would put that down as a goalscoring chance aswell

[Jamie_Beatson]

Just wonder if we'll ever see a video of this Milne "goal" incident. I've heard various people talking about it (I didn't see it - was looking at scoreboard) - and opinion is split as to whether he was rolling it out or bouncing it. If he was bouncing it the rules (probably) say it is a foul - although a certain referee who posts on here insists it isn't. If he has rolled it out it is a definite goal. Several people have said that Mr Tumilty wasn't even looking, which wouldn't surprise me.

At the end of the day, if Milne hasn't touched the keeper, the goal should stand. It is his own stupid fault that he has let go of the ball with a striker standing right in front of him.

[monkfish]

I actually thought the ref wasn't too bad today, at least in comparison to some of the other shite we get. Queens played a spoiling game and did it well, and it's ultimately our problem for not being able to break them down. Agree that the tactics didn't work, but a draw is anything seriously worrying, but if we don't get 3 points next week then we'll be looking at a mini slump.

[saintj]

in notw according to savo he said that some of the other players said he wasnt even looking with regards to the goal that wasnt

[ancientsaint]

It seems the ref was correct with the savo incident. If a goalie bounces the ball he is still in possession and anyone interfering is fouling the goalie.


Have to disagree - the keeper can only be in "control" of the ball if it is in his hands.......Bouncing the ball means that he has no control and as such the goal should have stood.

However i would urge everyone to log onto the SFA website and ask them to give an explanation as to why the goal was disallowed....the more that ask -then the chances are there will be a reply......thats what happened when Dundee Utd fans asked the question about the refs performance at Ibrox.

To me it was a goal.

[Mike180279]

Have to disagree - the keeper can only be in "control" of the ball if it is in his hands.......Bouncing the ball means that he has no control and as such the goal should have stood.

However i would urge everyone to log onto the SFA website and ask them to give an explanation as to why the goal was disallowed....the more that ask -then the chances are there will be a reply......thats what happened when Dundee Utd fans asked the question about the refs performance at Ibrox.

To me it was a goal.Van Persie had a goal chalked off at the Emirates a couple of weeks ago. Hansen, Shearer and Lineker explained the rule. The goalie had thrown the ball in the air to kick, and van persie hooked it whilst in the air and slotted home. No goal as the ball is deemed under goalkeeper control.

Yesterdays Goal was a goal the minute the ball touches the ground it is deemed out of his control unless this has been knocked out by an attacking player. I hope that this doesnt haunt us come May, this should have stood!

[chopper]

although a certain referee who posts on here insists it isn't.

As soon as the ball leaves the goalkeeper's hands it is in play - whether he is bouncing it or rolling it. What players are not allowed to do is play in a dangerous manner (ie high foot), knock the ball out of the goalkeeper's hands or block the goalkeeper releasing the ball from his hands.

Goal should have stood as Savo appeared to do none of the aforementioned infringements.

Still, the ref had a decent game - not the best game but not helped by having to pull back play for offences due to the advantage not being there and when he did pull play back quickly it should have been let go to allow an advantage.

From a Holmes perspective, I didn't see much that he would have been awarded a free kick for - there were a couple of instances where he probably could have had a free kick but then there were various incidents where he should have given away a free kick and didn't as the ref was generally allowing a more physical game than normal.

[Jamie_Beatson]

The frustrating thing on the refereeing side for me was the inconsistency when it came to aerial challenges. Their number two should have given away a penalty in the first half when he climbed all over Ruti - two hands on the shoulders and up over his head. This was about two minutes after he gave a free kick against Morris in the middle of the park when he jumped back to back with another midfielder - no arms used, no jumping at the opponent, just used a bit of upper body strength to muscle his way through.

[chopper]

Van Persie had a goal chalked off at the Emirates a couple of weeks ago. Hansen, Shearer and Lineker explained the rule. The goalie had thrown the ball in the air to kick, and van persie hooked it whilst in the air and slotted home. No goal as the ball is deemed under goalkeeper control.

That is a foul as it is blocking the keeper releasing the ball - the incident yesterday didn't stop the keeper releasing the ball.

Yesterdays Goal was a goal the minute the ball touches the ground it is deemed out of his control unless this has been knocked out by an attacking player. I hope that this doesnt haunt us come May, this should have stood!

Touching the ground does not matter - that is similar to the "daylight" part of the offside law that the TV pundits would have you believe is the law when there is no such rule! The keeper was not releasing the ball from hands by kicking or throwing the ball so when it leaves his hands it is in play.

[mainstand]

From teh FIFA website:

A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands
for more than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control
of the ball:
• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any
surface (e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
When a goalkeeper has gained possession of the ball with his hands,
he cannot be challenged by an opponent.
A goalkeeper is not permitted to touch the ball with his hand inside
his own penalty area in the following circumstances:
• if he handles the ball again after it has been released from his
possession and has not touched any other player:

This would appear to indicate that the ref was correct.

[john1962]

My only point in this is that the ref never saw the incident. Neither did I. I was looking at him, God only knows why. He was running towards the centre circle. He only guessed at what happened or listened to the Queens players

[sjfc_camo]

was i the only one who fought that samuel and morris diddnt have the best of games?
ye they done well at points particularly when samuel had the ball running at defenders but otherwise he was pretty lazy in my point of view
i think savo's goal should have stood if the keeper is bouncing a ball knowing that a opponent is there i would see that as teasing the opponent

[bleacher]

From teh FIFA website:
[B]• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
When a goalkeeper has gained possession of the ball with his hands,
he cannot be challenged by an opponent.

This would appear to indicate that the ref was correct.

It appeared to me that the keeper had dropped the ball to kick it - not to kick from hand but to play it from the ground and simply didn't know Savo was there - he was behind him at that point.

However, it's all irrelevant as it's not a goal as the ref didn't give it.

[Mike180279]

I have heard somethng today that nobody else seems to have seen, the goalkeeper bounced the ball off Savo's toe and lost control of it. Surely then this should stand?

[THE LARK SAINT]

Come on then 101 give us your in depth knowledge of where Del went wrong today the,

Anyone who tries to criticise the team and say things were not right when they played Queens off the park and had dozens of shots blocked and hit defenders on teh way to goal. As someone else said given a break we would have won by about 5 goals.

Cynical

Are you sure it wasn't Savo? I missed it but he was the only one around.

As for there goal the whistle went about a minute before the shot so it wasn;t really chopped off.

IT WAS SAVO........

[Deek]

From where I was sitting it looked like the keeper dropped the ball onto the ground to play it from the ground (not bounce it).

I looked at the ref straight away and he was running and looking away from goal. He didn't see it. He turned round and awarded a free kick. Unless he had an earpiece in he surely should have at least consulted his linesman to ask what happened?

[slf]

didnae see it from the ormond as i didnae have my binoculars with me.

[chopper]

I looked at the ref straight away and he was running and looking away from goal. He didn't see it. He turned round and awarded a free kick. Unless he had an earpiece in he surely should have at least consulted his linesman to ask what happened?

The referee and linesman had the communication equipment on so it would have been easy enough for the ref to give the decision without seeing it as his assistant would have told him through the earpiece - though didn't stop the ref from going to his main stand assistant to make sure he was giving the right member of the Queens bench a ticking off!!!

As for the "goal" - as mainstand points out, I would have got that wrong by giving the goal (still would have done it at the time, though not now of course!!!) however there seems to be about 5 or 6 different versions of the same event! Ach well, c'est la vie - still another point on the board and the more points clear we get the harder it becomes for Dunfermline (just remember how we blew it from a similar position against Queens and Thistle in catch up matches when chasing Gretna)

[Calypso Kid]

It appeared to me that the keeper had dropped the ball to kick it - not to kick from hand but to play it from the ground and simply didn't know Savo was there - he was behind him at that point.

However, it's all irrelevant as it's not a goal as the ref didn't give it.

He wasn't behind him. The keeper was fully aware that he was there and was actually moving in a sideways direction to kick past him.

The bit I don't understand is whether he dropped the ball by accident or not. Mainstands post seems pretty clear though.

[ancientsaint]

If the assistant had seen the incident with Savo he would/should have raised his flag to indicate a "free kick"....if the referee thought Savo had infringed the "rules" then he should have booked him for "unsporting behaviour"....the fact that this did not occur will still leave this open to debate and whilst debating the point wont make any difference to the result as the referee cannot now correct his mistake.

I still think it was a goal and hope that the highlights video on the main site will make it clearer.

[bigal]

From teh FIFA website:

A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands
for more than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control
of the ball:
• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any
surface (e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
When a goalkeeper has gained possession of the ball with his hands,
he cannot be challenged by an opponent.A goalkeeper is not permitted to touch the ball with his hand inside
his own penalty area in the following circumstances:
• if he handles the ball again after it has been released from his
possession and has not touched any other player:

This would appear to indicate that the ref was correct.

Not necessarily. I was one of those that missed exactly what happened but if he was dropping it to his foot or bouncing it then the above would say the ref was right. If he'd already dropped it to the ground with the intention of kicking it out or passing it then the ref was wrong cos it was no longer between his hand and any surface.

[ancientsaint]

DEBATE OVER..................yes Lord Hugh Dallas (who was obviously at the game !!) has decreed that Super Mike T got the Savo decision correct....end of story.....

[Kevin]

DEBATE OVER..................yes Lord Hugh Dallas (who was obviously at the game !!) has decreed that Super Mike T got the Savo decision correct....end of story.....

No, he was not the referee assesor on Saturday and was not in the ground, probably at Ibrox