Constitution?

[101 Saint]

Originally Posted by Ginger Bakers rebel army

I think on issues like the North stand our role could be to get the club to be as open about the issue as possible without off course expecting the club to breach any contractual confidentialities and to ask as a sound board for how the fans feel about major issues like this.

This is exactly why the Fed won't work. There is no way in the world we are entitled to know the complete plans. The balance of negotiating was very delicate at one stage; no idea what the current position is. No way should folks on here know, or have a say, on such matters.

The club always get these things right and will continue to do so.

[Ronaldo]

Originally Posted by 101 Saint

The club always get these things right and will continue to do so.

Like appointing Del? The club in the modern age have got most things right with some exceptions but that statement is invalid in terms of the total history of SJFC.

I think Ginger and Soulful could/should just go ahead with that skeletal set of objectives and we'll (the bulk of fans) propose ideas and get them approved and taken forward or shot down if inappropriate. Ready to go and to be honest I'm not bothered about a rigid Constitution but just a way to progress Saints in areas the fans have some knowledge that the board may be unaware of.

[mainstand]

Originally Posted by 101 Saint

This is exactly why the Fed won't work. There is no way in the world we are entitled to know the complete plans. The balance of negotiating was very delicate at one stage; no idea what the current position is. No way should folks on here know, or have a say, on such matters.

The club always get these things right and will continue to do so.

But surely anything which improves the communication between the lub and the fans should be welcomed. If there are good lines of communication then the fans won;t be having to depend on (or question) your contacts as they will be hearing it direct from the horses mouth and it will take the weight off your shoulders.

[101 Saint]

Originally Posted by mainstand

But surely anything which improves the communication between the lub and the fans should be welcomed. If there are good lines of communication then the fans won;t be having to depend on (or question) your contacts as they will be hearing it direct from the horses mouth and it will take the weight off your shoulders.

The club are improving communication of their own accord.

[soulfulsaint]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

For the avoidance of doubt, we have now moved on from the idea of a Fan's Rep - that idea did not gain sufficient support, so the question of 'board confidentiality' does not arise.

It is not a 'Federation' of clubs so comparisons with the Federation whilst useful are not really what's driving this.

It will require 'volunteers' to get started, that is a good thing and something that works for everyone from the National Trust to the Tate Gallery. The club already has a volunteers data base which it wishes to grow too. But we may need to go beyond volunteering.

I have agreed to chair the first meeting but not to be chair. Ginger is for the moment 'Minister of Propaganda'.

At the first meeting we will discuss governance and the 'mission' and 'objectives' outlined below. They have been proposed, tweaked and generally accepted so they will go before the inaugural meeting of 'volunteers' at a date yet to be agreed.

We do not have a name, a constitution nor a legal status. Arriving at a more 'organised' way forward is essential. As chair I will be enirely neutral but I have views which I am happy to share. I personally favour a low-maintainance, bureaucracy-light gathering of fans, and feel that the problem with some organisations is that they become so fixated with constitutions, and cabinet disputes, that they lose sight of what they are for - their mission.

Ours is already very clear. "To support St Johnstone FC in innovative ways by proposing, organizing and promoting activities and initiatives that will help the club to thrive, now and in the future."

It is 100% positive and the entirely fictitious and un-constructive idea that the "board might not like it" is daft - they do, they are relaxed and they will meet when we take shape.

There are clearly challenges ahead - if we aim to rasie significant sums of money and seek charitable status, then that will require greater governance and charitable trust status, if its a 'just-do-it' group of fans uniting around campaigns that does not need governance -neither the 208 Fancy Dress Days or the Blue and White Away Days have a 'constitution.'

So, I'd welcome progress on the issues we face rather than the one's we don't - to be clear, there is no Fans Rep and so board confidentiality is not an issue, it is not a Federation of existing clubs, it began on the web and will almost certainly have a strong web 2.0 element, it should be what it is, and not try to be all things to everyone.

Mission Statement


To support St Johnstone FC in innovative ways by proposing, organizing and promoting activities and initiatives that will help the club to thrive, now and in the future."



OBJECTIVES

Support and promote the team at every opportunity

Increase the number of Saints fans at McDiarmid.

Promote ideas that can generate profitable income for the club.

Promote supporters groups in schools, colleges, societies and communities.

Promote participation from Saints fans who live across the UK and abroad, via the internet etc.

Promote fun events for the fans that can generate attention or income

Provide the club with positive advice from the perspective of fans.


We will use this as the agenda of the first meeting, which I will chair before handing over to an elected or agreed chair, preferably someone who is largely Perth based.

[ancientsaint]

Originally Posted by soulfulsaint

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

For the avoidance of doubt, we have now moved on from the idea of a Fan's Rep - that idea did not gain sufficient support, so the question of 'board confidentiality' does not arise.

It is not a 'Federation' of clubs so comparisons with the Federation whilst useful are not really what's driving this.

It will require 'volunteers' to get started, that is a good thing and something that works for everyone from the National Trust to the Tate Gallery. The club already has a volunteers data base which it wishes to grow too. But we may need to go beyond volunteering.

I have agreed to chair the first meeting but not to be chair. Ginger is for the moment 'Minister of Propaganda'.

At the first meeting we will discuss governance and the 'mission' and 'objectives' outlined below. They have been proposed, tweaked and generally accepted so they will go before the inaugural meeting of 'volunteers' at a date yet to be agreed.

We do not have a name, a constitution nor a legal status. Arriving at a more 'organised' way forward is essential. As chair I will be enirely neutral but I have views which I am happy to share. I personally favour a low-maintainance, bureaucracy-light gathering of fans, and feel that the problem with some organisations is that they become so fixated with constitutions, and cabinet disputes, that they lose sight of what they are for - their mission.

Ours is already very clear. "To support St Johnstone FC in innovative ways by proposing, organizing and promoting activities and initiatives that will help the club to thrive, now and in the future."

It is 100% positive and the entirely fictitious and un-constructive idea that the "board might not like it" is daft - they do, they are relaxed and they will meet when we take shape.

There are clearly challenges ahead - if we aim to rasie significant sums of money and seek charitable status, then that will require greater governance and charitable trust status, if its a 'just-do-it' group of fans uniting around campaigns that does not need governance -neither the 208 Fancy Dress Days or the Blue and White Away Days have a 'constitution.'

So, I'd welcome progress on the issues we face rather than the one's we don't - to be clear, there is no Fans Rep and so board confidentiality is not an issue, it is not a Federation of existing clubs, it began on the web and will almost certainly have a strong web 2.0 element, it should be what it is, and not try to be all things to everyone.

Mission Statement


To support St Johnstone FC in innovative ways by proposing, organizing and promoting activities and initiatives that will help the club to thrive, now and in the future."



OBJECTIVES

Support and promote the team at every opportunity

Increase the number of Saints fans at McDiarmid.

Promote ideas that can generate profitable income for the club.

Promote supporters groups in schools, colleges, societies and communities.

Promote participation from Saints fans who live across the UK and abroad, via the internet etc.

Promote fun events for the fans that can generate attention or income

Provide the club with positive advice from the perspective of fans.


We will use this as the agenda of the first meeting, which I will chair before handing over to an elected or agreed chair, preferably someone who is largely Perth based.

Have not been on for a we while and therefor not up to date with the foregoing.......

I assume that a "committee" or "group of representatives" have already been proposed prior to the opening "meeting" which if true -surely is not "legal" in the sense that "elected representatives" have not been proposed and therefor "elected" to represent this "group"within the confines of an actual meeting.

Who if anyone has been invited to attend this proposed meeting ?

Where is the meeting to be held ?

Who if elected will be required to move from "Volunteer" to I assume "employed" ?

Why are we adopting the requirement to take over the "community Involvement" away from the staff at the club.

When the possibility of "charitable status" will be sought...will this involve a seperate committee to deal with these "events" ?

[Ginger Bakers rebel army]

Originally Posted by ancientsaint

Have not been on for a we while and therefor not up to date with the foregoing.......

I assume that a "committee" or "group of representatives" have already been proposed prior to the opening "meeting" which if true -surely is not "legal" in the sense that "elected representatives" have not been proposed and therefor "elected" to represent this "group"within the confines of an actual meeting.

Who if anyone has been invited to attend this proposed meeting ?

Where is the meeting to be held ?

Who if elected will be required to move from "Volunteer" to I assume "employed" ?

Why are we adopting the requirement to take over the "community Involvement" away from the staff at the club.

When the possibility of "charitable status" will be sought...will this involve a seperate committee to deal with these "events" ?

Ancientsaint , we are trying to keep this as simple as possible , we said at the start we would have to go out to the wider fan base beyond WAP. that will happen on Friday in the PA assuming Gordon can fit it in.
We will let that run for a couple of weeks and then move to the first meeting stage when we will try and get some structure around moving this forward.
As for Charitable status , I just don't get that , if we want to raise money for saints or a Charity we can , we don't need to be a charity to do it and we know how to arrange sponsorship and take advantage of the tax break so that is no problem.

[Remberbuck]

Originally Posted by ancientsaint

When the possibility of "charitable status" will be sought...will this involve a seperate committee to deal with these "events" ?

A small point in the greater scheme of things, but the proposed objectives, which are completely appropriate for what is being sought, will not pass the charitable test, and it is hard to envisage a local sports orientated body that would.

In the real world the only difference this would make would be to reclaim the 20% basic rate tax on whatever interest there is on any funds at the bank. Bags of unspent money lying around?

[soulfulsaint]

Originally Posted by ancientsaint

Have not been on for a we while and therefor not up to date with the foregoing.......

I assume that a "committee" or "group of representatives" have already been proposed prior to the opening "meeting" which if true -surely is not "legal" in the sense that "elected representatives" have not been proposed and therefor "elected" to represent this "group"within the confines of an actual meeting.

Who if anyone has been invited to attend this proposed meeting ?

Where is the meeting to be held ?

Who if elected will be required to move from "Volunteer" to I assume "employed" ?

Why are we adopting the requirement to take over the "community Involvement" away from the staff at the club.

When the possibility of "charitable status" will be sought...will this involve a seperate committee to deal with these "events" ?

No one has been elected, there is no venue yet and people have been asked if they are interested - so there is no committee. And the idea that we are taking away community involvement from the club is complete nonsense.

I have been asked to chair an inugural get together, through informal communication the board has said they'd welcome postive and innovative iniatives. This does and not and will not duplicate what the club already do for the community.

We are using the word volunteer in its everyday sense - people that have put forward their names voluntarilly with no presumption of status.

The above mission/objectives were arrived at via the web, openly and on this forum, there were endless opportunities to contribute and many did.

Still time to impove them so over to you AS - more improvements welcomed?

[ancientsaint]

Originally Posted by soulfulsaint

No one has been elected, there is no venue yet and people have been asked if they are interested - so there is no committee. And the idea that we are taking away community involvement from the club is complete nonsense.

I have been asked to chair an inugural get together, through informal communication the board has said they'd welcome postive and innovative iniatives. This does and not and will not duplicate what the club already do for the community.

We are using the word volunteer in its everyday sense - people that have put forward their names voluntarilly with no presumption of status.

The above mission/objectives were arrived at via the web, openly and on this forum, there were endless opportunities to contribute and many did.

Still time to impove them so over to you AS - more improvements welcomed?

I didnt want to have my comments sound like Negativity and if thats what it looked like then i apologise.

I have no doubt that there are many ideas floating around at the moment and that people will obviously look closely at them -that is why i think this meeting should have been arranged and any proposals put forward for consideration at that meeting ---albeit it -and depending on the number that turn up-it could be a long meeting.

A lot of ideas have been placed on here and i wanted to clarify certain points-hence the questions.

GINGER B...........I think one of the ideas floated was "charitable status" and the question was aimed at that idea....Fully aware that there are other ways of raising funds for the club.

My Question on the schools is primarily aimed at this being "Community Involvement" between the club and that School.......Just wondering if DISCLOSURE laws would need to be looked at if the "Group" were involved.

As i say im not trying to be Negative -there will be enough of that as soon as (IF) the elected Group begins their aims etc.

[soulfulsaint]

Originally Posted by ancientsaint

I didnt want to have my comments sound like Negativity and if thats what it looked like then i apologise.

I have no doubt that there are many ideas floating around at the moment and that people will obviously look closely at them -that is why i think this meeting should have been arranged and any proposals put forward for consideration at that meeting ---albeit it -and depending on the number that turn up-it could be a long meeting.

A lot of ideas have been placed on here and i wanted to clarify certain points-hence the questions.

GINGER B...........I think one of the ideas floated was "charitable status" and the question was aimed at that idea....Fully aware that there are other ways of raising funds for the club.

My Question on the schools is primarily aimed at this being "Community Involvement" between the club and that School.......Just wondering if DISCLOSURE laws would need to be looked at if the "Group" were involved.

As i say im not trying to be Negative -there will be enough of that as soon as (IF) the elected Group begins their aims etc.

Thanks AS. From my own personal viewpoint, I don't live in Perth and would have to travel to meetings, so clarifying what it was about is important to me in advance, or I wouldn't waste my time.

To give a simple perspective on the schools/community issue. I was at school with Atholl H. who I think does a great job for Saints, a job way beyond my skills. Ian Smith of the Business club was also at our school in the same era and does a fine job fund-raising for the club. All three of us went to Perth Academy and back then we had a Saints Supporters club in the school, and in 1971 a bus that went to all major away games, the school doesn't have that now.

There's so many projects we could support but if it gets mired in constitutionalsim then it will be strangled at birth - that's my main point, I already chair a charity, a couple of SME companies and several boards so not worried about the 'process' I just don't think this began as a 'heavy-duty' thing, it was driven by fun as much as fan particpation, hence the thread on bizarre suggestions.