Radford 72

I don't agree with that. We could have won the Clyde game at the death through Lawrie and Peaso but they should have had us buried by half-time. The two sitters they missed could have seen us two down after twenty minutes. We should have beaten Accies, I agree but didn't think we merited more than a point against Livi or on Saturday, although I agree we should have won that one in the circumstances. Every team can point to draws they should've turned into three points, we need to start doing it though.

Ok, if it was Clyde or Accies we were playing, I could maybe accept it but the players know how much this game means to the fans so there is no excuse for not matching Dundee's effort and commitment. Before they started spending millions they didn't have, our record against them was so good because our players were always up for the games against them whilst they just saw it as another game. Now, Rae has maybe got them treating it as a derby but we shouldn't have been outfought yesterday... we were though.

Bit of honesty from Owen in his post-match comments:

Agree totally. At least yesterday we weren't outplayed, we were against Morton. 3-2 flattered us that night.

No, you've got it all wrong! Everything is Andy Lawrie's fault!

Think ToS summed it up well. Very frustrated as this season I know we have a decent side but we just aren't delivering. We'll probably beat Gretna though!

If the roles had been reversed today, and we'd lost a guy after 5 minutes, does anyone think we'd have turned in a performance (in terms of efffort and commitment) like Dundee, and have taken a point?

I agree, the performance doesn't matter in derbies (although we were pony) but our whole attitude was wrong IMO. Playing against 10 men for 85 minutes, we should've been going at them time after time. They left one man up top (Andy bleedin' McLaren) so there wasn't even a need to over-commit. 1-1 was not acceptable today based on what happened in the match.

Hides the truth though, doesn't it?

What's the bet Coyle comes out with the usual pish about "not being up to our standards". He says it time and time again but never rectifies it.

It's the same as every other season though (apart from Connolly's). Being unbeaten is largely irrelevant, although a nice stat to trot out. Better to win one, lose one than get two draws. Draws killed us last season.

Spot on. We'll be bridesmaids again this year. Far too many under par performances. Savo wasn't fit, Jason was trying to avoid getting injured ahead of his jaunt home, Hardie's second touch is a tackle. Goran just isn't a full-back. No doubt someone will slag Andy Lawrie for the goal (and ignore his fantastic cross for Sheerin's peach of a volley) but it wasn't a mistake, he was simply beaten by a better player.

Sheerin for me again. Much better on the left, makes you think we've just wasted £40,000.

Dundee 2-0 Saints Derek Lyle 5,800

United aren't playing so I'd expect our numbers to be boosted a bit. Over 1,600 last season when the game clashed with Scotland vs USA so with us going well I'm hopeful there will be over 2,000 in the away end, albeit not all of them Saints. Could well be the biggest crowd of the day in Scotland on Saturday as there should be 4,000+ home fans.

I've been impressed (if that's the right word) with what Davie Farrell and Alex Rae have been saying. They seem to realise the importance we place on this game so I fear they'll make sure their players know that. We have a better set of players than them but I'm just not confident. We so need the three points though.

That's not a bad shout actually and would free Sheerin up to play on the left where he won't be anonymous hopefully. McLaren has played up front for Airdrie too.

Didn't say I think we'll lose either game though! Just saying I don't want this to be like other seasons where we leave it too late before making a run. Need the three points on Saturday, anything less just isn't good enough IMHO.

Name me anything Sheerin did in any of the derby games last season? He may as well not have been on the pitch. In a high tempo game like this, if he's played in the centre, the game will by-pass him totally. There's the option of playing him on the left and it's a reasonable option as Dundee have narrowed their pitch but, like Andy Lawrie, we need to show a bit of faith in McLaren. Sheerin will contribute a lot this season (and I voted him MotM on Saturday past) but he's proven time-and-time again, he's not up to it in this sort of game. Whilst Sheerin has done his Casper impression in the Dundee matches, our three derby goals last season all came from set pieces taken by Darren Sheridan. Alex Rae would eat Sheerin for breakfast.

They look to have some very ordinary players (Derek Lyle) but anyone that beats Gretna 4-0 deserves respect. If Savo is fit, I wonder who will be dropped? As much as I thought Sheerin did well on Saturday, this is typically the sort of game he can't get involved in when it's a physical, derby-type encounter. So I'd go... Halliwell Lawrie - McManus - Ando - Stanic Hardie - Mensing - Sheridan - McLaren Savo - Scotland Hardie and Mensing are obviously pretty interchangable.

We need to make sure we go into the Gretna game with a chance of going top IMO, or at least above them. Their goal difference is better than ours and likely to be boosted on Saturday so if they know they can come to Perth and lose, yet remain above us, it takes a weight off their shoulders and was the problem we had with St Mirren in February last year. We can't take two points from two games if we want to win the league IMO. Have to play Sheridan in there to match up to Alex Rae.

Don't suppose many will head through to this one. Have to win on Saturday, despite the previous talk of no games being must win, we have to put ourselves in the situation that if we lose to Gretna, we won't be miles behind. If they beat Airdrie (likely!) and then us we'd be seven points behind already if we lose to Dundee. We'd also likely have dropped right back into the chasing pack. It's imperative you follow up draws with wins and not more draws like we did last season.

652 Saints fans paid through the away turnstile.

It seems both camps have different views. The Livi fans and Robbo think the game was theirs for the taking whilst most Saints fans and Owen think the opposite. I thought Livi had a few gilt-edged chances in the closing minutes (free header over the bar, last gasp Shez tackle) but that apart I thought it was us that looked like notching a winner although we didn't really play well enough to merit the points. I can't think of a save Bryn had to make whilst we at least tested their 'keeper. Always likely to be a lull today for us after Tuesday and it's important we remain unbeaten as that psychologically affects other teams. McLaren showed some nice touches and at times his movement was excellent but the Airdrie fans were insistent he hadn't beaten a man for about two years so I hope the fans aren't going to turn on him. I thought Hardie did well down at Queens up front but struggled a bit yesterday, despite his part in the goal. Lawrie looked a lot more confident yesterday and I think we're finally seeing him settle. We'll need to play better to take anything next week against a much improved Dundee side.

Agree with a lot of the individual points that Broon makes but we simple weren't good enough to merit the three points today. That's not to say Livi are a decent side as on that showing they aren't and were time wasting from when they scored, clearly happy to settle for a point. Our defence was intent on trying to gift them chances and McLaren didn't play a decent final ball all day. Far too many under par performances and then the one guy that is playing quite well is subbed off! The fans let Coyle know how they felt about that though!