Dundee in Administration on Wednesday

[ryangordon86]

Ryan there is a massive difference. We can run at a loss because we are not running up debt in the process we have the £££ in the bank. I would be worried if we were posting a loss every year......

We also rely on income stream outside of footballing events. Many other clubs dont have this luxury

I know that, but it would make enforcing spending limits very unfair on clubs like ourselves, who are run prudently. I know we would never spend more than we can afford long term.

[BlueJ]

i wouldnt wish admin on them for the sake of the fans.

The ultimate fault is with those in the boardroom but the Dundee fans have contributed to their downfall by not accepting reality and effectively putting pressure on the board to deliver success NOW.

How do you think they would have reacted if someone in power at Dens had said 5 years ago that Dundee were now a first division club; had to budget accordingly; couldn't afford to pay SPL wages any more; transfer fees would be few and far between and it might take between 5 to 10 years to gain promotion again but at least we'd be financially stable in the long term?

The Dundee fans demand their 'rightful' SPL status; still think they are a power as they were in the 60's; look upon themselves as a sleeping giant; still see United as the wee team in the city and detest the fact they are actually the more successful club so the Dee's have to back in the SPL NOW, no matter what it takes as everything will be alright when they're back where they belong.

Sometimes karma does actually work.

[101 Saint]

How feasible would it be from an accounting point of view to enforce a regulation that restricted the percentage of income that could be spent on players' wages? I am all for having some sort of sanction on clubs that 'cheat' by going into administration but I wonder if rules are introduced about wages as proportion of income that this would just lead to clubs finding underhand means of getting round them. Also, as has already been pointed out, would Saints be penalised for spending too much on players' wages?

As I say, it would be great to stop these clubs but there is no point introducing rules that cant be enforced.

You'd drive wages further underground. Look at how Griffths ended up at Dundee! The whole deal stinks and has from the start.

[101 Saint]

Perhaps a shareholder will provide the correct figures but we spent around 45% of income on wages last year, that's far too high and we are striving to reduce the figure. Hibs on the other hand think their plan is fine! Wonder how manageable their debt is....

[ancientsaint]

There is a meeting tonight at 5-30 between the Board and Dee4life.....be interesting.

Loads of reporters camped on Dens road..well Jim Spence is anyway.

[Dooj]

Perhaps a shareholder will provide the correct figures but we spent around 45% of income on wages last year, that's far too high and we are striving to reduce the figure. Hibs on the other hand think their plan is fine! Wonder how manageable their debt is....

45% doesnt sound too bad to me - what would you consider to be the target level?

[Pop]

Loads of reporters camped on Dens road..well Jim Spence is anyway.

Isn't he always?

[Honest Saints Fan]

Ahhh doesn't it make you appreciate big Geoffy babes even more!

[garydavidson]

Perhaps a shareholder will provide the correct figures but we spent around 45% of income on wages last year, that's far too high and we are striving to reduce the figure. Hibs on the other hand think their plan is fine! Wonder how manageable their debt is....

"Our focus remains on sporting performance, the single most important factor in generating revenue" - Hibs' chief executive Scott Lindsay

Mr Brown strongly disagrees with this man. Years ago he said the football side only accounted for 25% of the income of the club, not sure if that has changed now?

[MrBored]

The ultimate fault is with those in the boardroom but the Dundee fans have contributed to their downfall by not accepting reality and effectively putting pressure on the board to deliver success NOW.

I thought the Dud-dee fans had a voice on the board after helping their last rescue. If so and assuming they were privy to the details (which they should have been) they are just as responsible for this sorry tale.

[Mike180279]

I thought the Dud-dee fans had a voice on the board after helping their last rescue. If so and assuming they were privy to the details (which they should have been) they are just as responsible for this sorry tale.

I believe that they Dee4Life raised official concern about how the club was being run - being reliant on one person that is.

If you look at the Dundee Offical Forum you will see a detailed explanation of how this came about. The fans rep was only guilty of not making their concerns public

[101 Saint]

45% doesnt sound too bad to me - what would you consider to be the target level?

I'd say 35%. No idea what the club are targetting.

[mainstand]

I'd say 35%. No idea what the club are targetting.

Deloittes report advises a ratio of 60%. Hearts suo it though in 2008-9 wuth 126%;

"Players' wages have fallen by £3m, but eight out of 12 clubs returned a wage-to-turnover ratio in excess of the recommended 60 per cent, in particular Hearts who recorded a 126 per cent ratio. The report said this was "wholly unsustainable in the medium to long term"."

[Mike180279]

Deloittes report advises a ratio of 60%. Hearts suo it though in 2008-9 wuth 126%;

"Players' wages have fallen by £3m, but eight out of 12 clubs returned a wage-to-turnover ratio in excess of the recommended 60 per cent, in particular Hearts who recorded a 126 per cent ratio. The report said this was "wholly unsustainable in the medium to long term"."

That will be 60% of income through the gates. Standard model.

I think the 45% accounts for commercial side of things too?

[mainstand]

That will be 60% of income through the gates. Standard model.

I think the 45% accounts for commercial side of things too?

No Mike that is company turnover and not just gate receipts. That is why the overdraft increased over the period 60% level is also based on the total turnover sith gate receipts, sponsorship and merchandising all being taken into account.

[Mike180279]

No Mike that is company turnover and not just gate receipts. That is why the overdraft increased over the period 60% level is also based on the total turnover sith gate receipts, sponsorship and merchandising all being taken into account.

Ok, I stand corrected. I remember watching a programme on the EPL at work, all very boring on the finance side of things. I took the 60% to be gate receipts only.

[mainstand]

Ok, I stand corrected. I remember watching a programme on the EPL at work, all very boring on the finance side of things. I took the 60% to be gate receipts only.

It shows what a state Hearts were in, they have now reduced the wage bill but that was just sheer stupidity.

I remember being on a tour of old trafford and the guide advising thatsomething like 80% of match day income comes from 10% of the crowd.

[Dooj]

Deloittes report advises a ratio of 60%. Hearts suo it though in 2008-9 wuth 126%;

"Players' wages have fallen by £3m, but eight out of 12 clubs returned a wage-to-turnover ratio in excess of the recommended 60 per cent, in particular Hearts who recorded a 126 per cent ratio. The report said this was "wholly unsustainable in the medium to long term"."

So, could it be argued that Saints should be spending *more* on wages? (if the 45% figure is indeed accurate)

[sjfc.spl.09-10]

so..

LETS ALL LAUGH AT DUNDEE

[Mike180279]

So, could it be argued that Saints should be spending *more* on wages? (if the 45% figure is indeed accurate)

Absolute maximum 60%

[Mike180279]

It shows what a state Hearts were in, they have now reduced the wage bill but that was just sheer stupidity.

I remember being on a tour of old trafford and the guide advising thatsomething like 80% of match day income comes from 10% of the crowd.

Concalves and Kingston were reported to be on 13 and 15k a week last season!!

[ancientsaint]

Any news from the meeting tonight with the fans ??

[Mike180279]

Any news from the meeting tonight with the fans ??

Cancelled I think. Ill find out..................

Maybe not

http://www.dundeefc.co.uk/dfcforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27198

Edited September 28, 2010 by Mike180279

[Guest Mongy Max]

Not sure about the truth in this but, but the rumour mill in Aberdeen has churned out the following:

Melville is under some form of investigation by Cosalt, as he is intending to start business on his own again. Something he'd done beofre Cosalt bought him over and gave him a fortune. They're not too happy with this so they're investigating this for some reason.

Not my words, words from the Oil and Gas grapevine! If this is true, I doubt he'll be happy to slap his pennies into Dundee when he has more pressing issues to deal with.

[Wish i was Joe McGurn]

Not sure about the truth in this but, but the rumour mill in Aberdeen has churned out the following:

Melville is under some form of investigation by Cosalt, as he is intending to start business on his own again. Something he'd done beofre Cosalt bought him over and gave him a fortune. They're not too happy with this so they're investigating this for some reason.

Not my words, words from the Oil and Gas grapevine! If this is true, I doubt he'll be happy to slap his pennies into Dundee when he has more pressing issues to deal with.

I heard that he was trying to start up on his own again and trying to take the contracts with him undercutting Cosalt.

They found out and suspended him. Breach of his contract with them. They could sue him and clean him out.