Ibrox latest...

[Cagey]

Bear with me a we while.

Are Rangers/Newco not going to come out of this smelling of roses. It seems they will be able to keep Ibrox & Murray Park. All thier players can remain with them if they want & seeing as they are a Newco can Fifa,Uefa,SPL,SFA,SPL, fine them,punish them,suspend them,demote them as they are no longer RANGERS.

Also if they are in liquidation why are Ibrox,Murray Park,Players,flagpoles,cups & even the turf not being sold to pay of debts.

[henryhallsdanceband]

Bear with me a we while.

Are Rangers/Newco not going to come out of this smelling of roses. It seems they will be able to keep Ibrox & Murray Park. All thier players can remain with them if they want & seeing as they are a Newco can Fifa,Uefa,SPL,SFA,SPL, fine them,punish them,suspend them,demote them as they are no longer RANGERS.

Also if they are in liquidation why are Ibrox,Murray Park,Players,flagpoles,cups & even the turf not being sold to pay of debts.

Because they are an 'instituation' - but then again so WERE Northern Rock.

[Abernethy Saint]

Bear with me a we while.

Are Rangers/Newco not going to come out of this smelling of roses. It seems they will be able to keep Ibrox & Murray Park. All thier players can remain with them if they want & seeing as they are a Newco can Fifa,Uefa,SPL,SFA,SPL, fine them,punish them,suspend them,demote them as they are no longer RANGERS.

Also if they are in liquidation why are Ibrox,Murray Park,Players,flagpoles,cups & even the turf not being sold to pay of debts.

Because once you liquidate, all bets and debts are off. The liquidator is obliged to sell the assets for the best price he or she can get, in the interests of the creditors, suject to law. Green seems to assume that will be him. I don't have the knowledge to know what they will do - but I thnik we now have, at last, a genuinely impartial approach to this - the liquidator, managing things according to law, and HRMC, pursuing possible tax evasion. This is no longer in the hands of shysters -the adults have taken back the asylum.

But things are about to get a lot, lot more complicated. See you in court in, say, 18 months.

[john1962]

As the song goes Division 3 is the magic number.

Apparently there have been three newco clubs admitted into the SPL. But when asked to name them Green surprisingly couldn't.

[slf]

Third Division for me.

what foghorn said.third division glasgow juniors.

[Abernethy Saint]

My new favourite song.

Greensleaze.....

And the Beloved chips in with "The Green Green grass of home.....oh shit, we don't have one...".

[ejksjfc]

The ideal scenario would be they get refused entry to SPL, have to apply to SFL and get knocked back in favour of Gala Fairydean or Huntly.

[Abernethy Saint]

The ideal scenario would be they get refused entry to SPL, have to apply to SFL and get knocked back in favour of Gala Fairydean or Huntly.

Only if there is a god.....

[Guest Harry Curran's Love child]

Who says that the SFL clubs will vote them in. David Longmuir basically said that if a position became available within the SFL then the process would be for ANY club to tender a bid and put their case forward and then the SFL member clubs would vote on which one they want to join.

How utterly amazing would it be if a club like Spartans were given preference over the mighty RFC.

[Guest Harry Curran's Love child]

The ideal scenario would be they get refused entry to SPL, have to apply to SFL and get knocked back in favour of Gala Fairydean or Huntly.

This

[mainstand]

Because once you liquidate, all bets and debts are off. The liquidator is obliged to sell the assets for the best price he or she can get, in the interests of the creditors, suject to law. Green seems to assume that will be him. I don't have the knowledge to know what they will do - but I thnik we now have, at last, a genuinely impartial approach to this - the liquidator, managing things according to law, and HRMC, pursuing possible tax evasion. This is no longer in the hands of shysters -the adults have taken back the asylum.

But things are about to get a lot, lot more complicated. See you in court in, say, 18 months.

The administrator has the right to sell parts of the business before the liquidation. The liquidator can, however, look into any deals and if he thinks they are illegal or incorrect then he can amend them.

HMRC are suggesting that they will not be contestthe sale of the assets to Green!!

[st paddy]

HMRC are suggesting that they will not be contestthe sale of the assets to Green!!

I am reading it as media mouthpieces for Rangers and Dumb&Dumber are suggesting HMRC would be happy with this. As with everything else around this whole disgrace, I will believe it when it happens.

[john1962]

The administrator has the right to sell parts of the business before the liquidation. The liquidator can, however, look into any deals and if he thinks they are illegal or incorrect then he can amend them.

HMRC are suggesting that they will not be contestthe sale of the assets to Green!!

I read somewhere that BDO will now assess the assets. I took from that if the sale to Green is too cheap they will block it. Can that happen?

[HOODLUM65]

Read somewhere recently that should they be liquidated , Green claimed he would benefit by £3m. Anyone confirm?

[The Neutral]

This is the statement from HMRC today that I found strange :

"HMRC said that the sale of the club "is not being undermined, it simply takes a different route".

In a statement it said: "Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox.

"It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA. Rangers can make a fresh start." "

"A liquidation provides the best opportunity to protect taxpayers, by allowing the potential investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company's financial affairs in recent years.

This, to me, would seem to suggest that HMRC are making a distinction between the club and those who ran it.. Allowing the football club to continue whilst investigating & possibly taking action against, Murray, Whyte et al...

[HOODLUM65]

Arabs Thommo on a sports news did not exactly sound as if an 8-4 vote would be the outcome .

[scotpages]

They can't. The £5.5m figure was written into the contract accepted by D&P when Green agreed the deal to buy them. That either proves

a) Their utter incompetence or

utter desperation given that this was the "best" offer on the table.

Or

c) they cooked up a wee mutually beneficial financial arrangement (Green lends 5.5 million, D+P admin fees are 5.5 million, interesting...)

Besides, a liquidator can liquidate any assets and break any contract, especially where they have reason to believe any dodgy deals have taken place. Unfortunately, from the wording of the HMRC statement, I don't think this is the avenue they will pursue. I think they should.

[john1962]

Arabs Thommo on a sports news did not exactly sound as if an 8-4 vote would be the outcome .

Didnt think they would get the eight?

[scotpages]

I'd like to see them voted out of the SPL. Say No To Newco.

[Ronaldo]

So good by Alex, contains everything plus the things we've thought about which need answere. Thanks Jings

Alex Thomsons latest blog;

Today’s the day the taxman, in the shape of HMRC, said not only will he not be walking away from Rangers, but that they, the HMRC, “are the people”. And the people not only want their money back from this catastrophically mismanaged “football club”, but now they want to come after the men who reduced the once proud name of Ibrox to a pathetic byword for toxic governance.

And that is the real story.

It is not often that you are on holiday and find your plans are interrupted by the Voice of the Taxman, and it is hardly ever anything but bad news, I would imagine. But I have to report barely concealed joy and enthusiasm from my contact in HMRC who once memorably told me, referring to Rangers Football Club: “Remember our Eleventh Commandment, Alex – Thou Shalt Not Get Away With It.”

Not the kind of language HMRC regularly employs, but Rangers was always going to be big for them. Very big. An example. A test case. A litmus test. Take your image, but you get their drift.

So now it is all about a proper investigation. Bluntly, a CVA (company voluntary arrangement) would have allowed far too much to be simply swept under the carpet. Years of evidence, allegations, arguably an entire Ibrox culture of funny money and living beyond everyone’s means, can, as the HMRC put it this morning “now be properly investigated – and let me say there is no way we could have done that under any proposed CVA deal”.

When the CVA was proposed down at Portsmouth FC, the taxman was promised all kinds of phone number figures from any amount of whacky offshore accounts etc and guess what? Yes – they got a fraction of nowt out of it, in the end.

They were not minded at all to go down the same route this time.

In short, this is a warrant for the proper, detailed, lengthy and forensic investigation of just what David Murray, and to some extent Craig Whyte, were doing at Rangers and – yes – all those men who walked away from the club they professed to cherish and love and have run from any serious kind of questions ever since in the celebrated style of Glasgow football, largely unencumbered by any pursuit and awkward questions from the compliant press of that city who cannot handle the idea that Rangers was after so many years too corrupted to survive liquidation.

Well, now it is time to get used to the truth and reality so widely predicted and investigated online and by those notable journalists in broadcasting and papers around Glasgow who bucked the trend. They can all hold their heads high today after all the years of abuse.

The succulent lamb just went off. The stench will hang around Rangers for years to come.

So a CVL (creditors’ voluntary liquidation) is, the HMRC believes, a way of taking the gloves off, and getting to grips with, the former directors which a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) could never have done, in their view.

Getting away with it just became very, very much more difficult for all the directors involved with Rangers over the past 15 years or so, and nobody – least of all Rangers fans – can possibly do anything but welcome that fact, whatever it means for the club.

Today HMRC said this: “A CVL is the statutory process whereby a company’s assets are realised by an insolvency practitioner (the liquidator – BDO in this case it seems) and paid out to its creditors. If there is not enough to pay creditors in full after the costs of the liquidation, they will receive only a proportion of their claims. The directors and employees of the company play no part in the liquidation.”

Moreover, the actions across recent months of administrators Duff & Phelps might well now come under scrutiny. Given some of the more bizarre twists and turns, it would be astonishing if they did not.

The HMRC again: “Liquidators are required by regulatory best practice to undertake a certain minimum level of investigation into the actions of the directors of the company in the run up to its liquidation. These investigations may reveal legal actions which only liquidators can take whereby directors can be ordered by the court to compensate the company in respect of any wrongdoings they may have committed during the pre-liquidation period. If the liquidator considers it economic to pursue such actions he will do so. ”

Not only that. There are wide powers to investigate and take actions against directors including –

- Wrongful trading: directors can be ordered to make a payment to the company if they continue incurring debt at a time they should reasonably have known the company could not avoid going into liquidation.

- Transaction at an undervalue: where a director has caused an asset to be transferred to a connected party for less than its true value at a time when the company was insolvent, the asset can be transferred back to the company or the person benefitting can be ordered to compensate the company. An example would be a director buying his own company car for £1.

- Preference: where a director has paid someone with the intention of making them better off in the event of a liquidation than they would otherwise have been then they can be ordered to pay compensation to the company. An example would be a director causing the company to pay a debt that he had personally guaranteed so he would not have to meet that debt himself when the company goes into liquidation.

- Misfeasance: this covers a wide variety of breaches of duty by directors. Duties of directors are set out in the companies act and include such matters as putting the company’s interests first, and not taking account of the director’s personal interests.

And just to top it off, under the liquidation the liquidators also now have all kinds of powers to get information from directors and others with inside knowledge of the football club, and they can use the courts to do it if they have to.

Or to put it another way, Rangers directors of the recent past can run from the questions, if they like – but hiding would be futile.

So the HMRC are pretty much where they want to be in all this. And anyone who believes that if you try to thwart the taxman, they should come after you, will no doubt agree.

Questions therefore for several Scottish MSPs and First Minister Alex Salmond to answer about their blatant political interference with the HMRC – several MSPs blatantly and publicly attempting to pressure the taxman away from any liquidation. I know from sources within HMRC that basically all they managed to achieve was to antagonise the taxman who simply wanted everyone to play by the rules and for there to be no special case, no exceptions and no special pleadings.

At the time when Channel 4 News dared question whether or not their actions might not be counter-productive, given that Holyrood has no powers over HMRC, the hue and cry from said MSPs and Mr Salmond’s minders was long and loud. I wonder if they are re-examining their actions today?

And then there’s the football side of things, for Rangers did also masquerade as a football club during the long years of apparently being a casino. In immediate terms -

1. Rangers will be banned from European competition for three years.

2. Most of their players can and will leave in the coming weeks often – many having no doubt had enough of doing their bit on wage cuts of up to 75 per cent.

3. The club still faces the Big Tax Case tribunal decision laughingly due “soon after Easter”, and on that the HMRC still have no news, this could see Rangers face a further tax bill of up to £70m in dues and penalties.

4. The Scottish Premier League will soon run out of excuses to not report on its investigation into alleged wrongful player registration which, if the club is found guilty as charged, could see the club losing much of its silverware won over the past decade or so.t

5. The liquidation makes it even more difficult for both the Scottish Premier League and its appeal body the Scottish Football Association to readmit and license Rangers to play in the Scottish Premier League.

6. Despite the Green consortium’s lofty statements about buying the club’s assets, there is no guarantee that they will in fact be bought up as a job lot. There is no guarantee about simply playing on at Ibrox. There are, as things stand, few guarantees in terms of the asset sale at all.

It is hard to see any way forward with any kind of probity except starting a clean sheet at the foot of the Third Division in Scotland and playing their way back, thereby sending a message across the sporting world, at last, that some things matter more than money – even in football.

And that is what many Rangers fans – for so long ignored in all this and the people most badly sold down the river by those who “managed” their club – want to see happen. To that extent they are the people, the people who matter, and, unlike

all their directors, they did not walk away and they will not.

[Wish i was Joe McGurn]

Who is this rangers you speak off. The new dodo

[sjfc99]

Good news! Just need to hope Newco doesn't get let back in and that green doesnt get ibrokes for 5.5m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2V6v6Xa-BI&feature=player_embedded

[ex-montrosesaintee]

I feel sick.

£5.5m? Duff and Duffer sail off into the sunset, probably pay Whyte his 25% share of their takings, and nobody else gets a bean.

Surely this is no message from HMRC?

Duff and Duffer state they will remain in control at ibrox for several weeks? Why? I suppose they need time to make absolutely sure there is nothing left for the creditors.

Sick. Absolutely sick.

[Edstar101]

Goram the latest to be wheeled out blabbing on about other clubs "being careful what they wish for"....we all know that whole financial argument about needing Rangers or facing financial ruin is a pile of pish...now feck off Andy and lose your house on the horses

[Guest Harry Curran's Love child]

I feel sick.

£5.5m? Duff and Duffer sail off into the sunset, probably pay Whyte his 25% share of their takings, and nobody else gets a bean.

Surely this is no message from HMRC?

Duff and Duffer state they will remain in control at ibrox for several weeks? Why? I suppose they need time to make absolutely sure there is nothing left for the creditors.

Sick. Absolutely sick.

Maybe not.....

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

#Rangers liquidators BDO: we will be looking to protect remaining assets and maximise recoveries for benefit of creditors.