Calypso Kid

An open letter to St Johnstone Chairman Steve Brown

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Not been on here for ages, and I might be missing a thread covering the goings on at Ibrox, but I was wondering what the general feeling on here is towards the impending collapse of sporting integrity that will see a club (who has won more championships than any other, exploits sectarianism for it's own benefit and whose fans continually and willfully bring the Scottish game into disrepute) parachute back into the SPL at the cost of other law-abiding clubs.

It's been done to death over on PnB, with a largely united and horrified non-OF support suggesting that they will no longer attend their club's games given the rigging of the competition, but It would be interesting to see what Saints fans thoughts are on here.

Feel free to move to the Football forum but I felt this directly affects both our on-field and off-field future so is pertinent to this particular forum.

Fire away...

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Ah, I thought it would be in the main forum given the importance of it to Saints and the remaining shred of integrity the league actually clings on to.

MODS!!!

I know what ya mean but since its mainly about RFC its in football chat,here mate yer only one post away from 1000th better make it a good un :laugh:

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I'll let the Mods make a call actually.

I was looking for Saints fans opinion on a situation that is absolutely central to the future of the club and the governance of the association.

Not fussy about coming up with daft names for Rangers etc.

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It is going to be a tough decision for all the chairmen. On the one hand they have their fans who are against the newco and want sporting integrity to be the deciding factor whilst the chairman who are looking after the pennies really have to make a decision best suited to their finances.

From a chairmans point of view I think its a YES from a fans side NO from a realists I think it will end up YES.

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You'd shell the better part of a grand to watch a competition where cheating is embraced, as long as the perceived commercial interest of the league isn't threatened?

Where the coverage is, by it's own admittance, biased in favour of the only two teams who win the competition?

Where the two sole competitors for the title exploit Scotland's dirty little secret for their own commercial dominance?

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You'd shell the better part of a grand to watch a competition where cheating is embraced, as long as the perceived commercial interest of the league isn't threatened?

Where the coverage is, by it's own admittance, biased in favour of the only two teams who win the competition?

Where the two sole competitors for the title exploit Scotland's dirty little secret for their own commercial dominance?

well said chief.

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You'd shell the better part of a grand to watch a competition where cheating is embraced, as long as the perceived commercial interest of the league isn't threatened?

Where the coverage is, by it's own admittance, biased in favour of the only two teams who win the competition?

Where the two sole competitors for the title exploit Scotland's dirty little secret for their own commercial dominance?

You missed out:

Support the team you have supported for 45 years!! Why should Saints players and management be punished for Rangers coming in under a newco. Why would you turn your back on your team?

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I actually feel sick to the pit of my stomach that this is going to happen.

I've already stuck an Email to the club putting across my thoughts and I hope Saints fans actually understand what is about to happen on this one.

Dear Sir/Madam

I write with regard to recent events concerning Rangers' current plight and proposals discussed by SPL board/members.

It's clear that any remaining integrity left in the league is on the edge of the abyss with a formalised 'get out of jail' card thrown at the detestable bigots from Glasgow.

I trust our club will act in an honourable fashion (as ever) and recognise the horror many Saints supporters felt when details of the Sky/Espn emerged and confirmed that the league was not only already heavily favoured toward Old Firm success but was also now in a position of only being covered if both clubs were in the division.

This alone is an affront to the spirit of sporting competition but has now been followed up by Rangers being given a token rap on the knuckles for a couple of seasons after defrauding the public purse to the tune of £100 million + and cheating their way to numerous titles over the last decade or so by paying players with double contracts (yet to be confirmed, I acknowledge, but obvious to all).

I urge you to consider the thoughts of generations of Saints fans who have seen us win 0 major honours and were knocked out of cup competitions by World-Cup winners playing in the blue of Rangers, and presumably enjoying 'tax-efficient' remuneration for doing so.

Times are hard and Mr Brown has an unenviable task of balancing the books. What I ask is, if we sell our sporting integrity, why bother?

Now is the time for change. If we fail to respond now we'll look back with regret on a spurned opportunity.

I, for one, won't be back if Rangers phoenix comes to pass and I know I'm not alone. Who knows, perhaps Sky covering Rangers v Celtic 40 times a season is a consolation to SPL Chairmen. It had better be if this goes ahead because that is all we'll have left.

Kind regards

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You missed out:

Support the team you have supported for 45 years!! Why should Saints players and management be punished for Rangers coming in under a newco. Why would you turn your back on your team?

There is an alternative. Make it clear that you as an individual have morals and won't be treated like a sheep.

If you want to watch a rigged competiton then fine. If not, put your feelings across.

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It depends on how Saints vote. If our club votes against it, then I will contine to attend games. If our club votes in favour of Rangers, then what is the point? It will prove that our chairman has no moral values and only cares about money. And ironically it'll be a decision that may well end up losing him money, as a large number of fans will turn their backs on scottish football.

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There is an alternative. Make it clear that you as an individual have morals and won't be treated like a sheep.

If you want to watch a rigged competiton then fine. If not, put your feelings across.

If I was acting like a sheep I would be coming out against the new CO. Your email that you posted above is good but as soon as you start mentioning the "bigot" etc then you lose folk. Yes come out and make a case for a newco being rejected but make it using reasoned coments.

Sky and ESPN are looking for the big audiences they know that 2 teams in Scotland, like it or not, have over 50% of the support, from a purely business perspective they are not going to pay the same for covering a league with over 50% copared to 25%. The biggest audiences they get on tv for a Scottish match are for Celtic Rangers matches. that is what they pay for and I don't know about you but the announcement form SKy does not really come as a big surprise.

If Rangers successfully got a CVA would you be feeling sick in your stomach??

Motherwell did it? Livi did it and Dundee have done it do you still travel to watch Saints v these teams?

The double contracts and the EBT schemes have still to be decided, and if guilty they will be penalised.

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I actually feel sick to the pit of my stomach that this is going to happen.

I've already stuck an Email to the club putting across my thoughts and I hope Saints fans actually understand what is about to happen on this one.

Dear Sir/Madam

I write with regard to recent events concerning Rangers' current plight and proposals discussed by SPL board/members.

It's clear that any remaining integrity left in the league is on the edge of the abyss with a formalised 'get out of jail' card thrown at the detestable bigots from Glasgow.

I trust our club will act in an honourable fashion (as ever) and recognise the horror many Saints supporters felt when details of the Sky/Espn emerged and confirmed that the league was not only already heavily favoured toward Old Firm success but was also now in a position of only being covered if both clubs were in the division.

This alone is an affront to the spirit of sporting competition but has now been followed up by Rangers being given a token rap on the knuckles for a couple of seasons after defrauding the public purse to the tune of £100 million + and cheating their way to numerous titles over the last decade or so by paying players with double contracts (yet to be confirmed, I acknowledge, but obvious to all).

I urge you to consider the thoughts of generations of Saints fans who have seen us win 0 major honours and were knocked out of cup competitions by World-Cup winners playing in the blue of Rangers, and presumably enjoying 'tax-efficient' remuneration for doing so.

Times are hard and Mr Brown has an unenviable task of balancing the books. What I ask is, if we sell our sporting integrity, why bother?

Now is the time for change. If we fail to respond now we'll look back with regret on a spurned opportunity.

I, for one, won't be back if Rangers phoenix comes to pass and I know I'm not alone. Who knows, perhaps Sky covering Rangers v Celtic 40 times a season is a consolation to SPL Chairmen. It had better be if this goes ahead because that is all we'll have left.

Kind regards

Totally agree with you on this and I have already stated my position on this issue. Heartbreaking as it will be, I will not be back should we bend over and take it..:cry:

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If I was acting like a sheep I would be coming out against the new CO. Your email that you posted above is good but as soon as you start mentioning the "bigot" etc then you lose folk. Yes come out and make a case for a newco being rejected but make it using reasoned coments.

Sky and ESPN are looking for the big audiences they know that 2 teams in Scotland, like it or not, have over 50% of the support, from a purely business perspective they are not going to pay the same for covering a league with over 50% copared to 25%. The biggest audiences they get on tv for a Scottish match are for Celtic Rangers matches. that is what they pay for and I don't know about you but the announcement form SKy does not really come as a big surprise.

If Rangers successfully got a CVA would you be feeling sick in your stomach??

Motherwell did it? Livi did it and Dundee have done it do you still travel to watch Saints v these teams?

The double contracts and the EBT schemes have still to be decided, and if guilty they will be penalised.

I would be delighted if Rangers agreed a CVA.:D I don't have any problems with a CVA as it is the normal way of doing things should clubs get into the deep stuff. It's the newco route that would do it for me. It's not right and against everything I believe in.

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If I was acting like a sheep I would be coming out against the new CO. Your email that you posted above is good but as soon as you start mentioning the "bigot" etc then you lose folk. Yes come out and make a case for a newco being rejected but make it using reasoned coments.

Sky and ESPN are looking for the big audiences they know that 2 teams in Scotland, like it or not, have over 50% of the support, from a purely business perspective they are not going to pay the same for covering a league with over 50% copared to 25%. The biggest audiences they get on tv for a Scottish match are for Celtic Rangers matches. that is what they pay for and I don't know about you but the announcement form SKy does not really come as a big surprise.

If Rangers successfully got a CVA would you be feeling sick in your stomach??

Motherwell did it? Livi did it and Dundee have done it do you still travel to watch Saints v these teams?

The double contracts and the EBT schemes have still to be decided, and if guilty they will be penalised.

If Rangers (in their current guise) agree a CVA then i'll be in a position to make a call on it, as you mentioned others have gone through that process and I have continued supporting Saints.

The major difference is Rangers have zero chance of agreeing a CVA under the current scenario given the huge liability to HMRC. The other clubs you mentioned didn't have that. It was their own sugar-daddys (ha) who were the majority creditors in Boyle and Melville etc.

The EBT situation HAS been decided! They've been given a huge bill by HMRC and are appealing it through the courts! What action the SFA take against them has yet to be decided but that's for another shameful day.

To suggest Rangers support, and by association, the club (remember their signing policies in the not too distant past?) are not bigots is absurd. I apologise for not mincing my words but we've all seen it.

SKY and the associated dogma of the TV money is simply a symptom of a greater problem and this next step is the most important of the Association's history.

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I would be delighted if Rangers agreed a CVA.:D I don't have any problems with a CVA as it is the normal way of doing things should clubs get into the deep stuff. It's the newco route that would do it for me. It's not right and against everything I believe in.

both, however, have the same impact on creditors.

From what I se the new owner is trying a ploy to get away without any additional penalties next season. He will lay under a new co and then once the cva is complete transfer everything back to the old co and start under the old co.

So simple way round it is to continue with the penalties that he would have received 10 points deduction each season and 75% of money kept.

Millar gets his new co, Rangers get punished and fans are content? Would you agree to that?

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The major difference is Rangers have zero chance of agreeing a CVA under the current scenario given the huge liability to HMRC. The other clubs you mentioned didn't have that. It was their own sugar-daddys (ha) who were the majority creditors in Boyle and Melville etc.

The EBT situation HAS been decided! They've been given a huge bill by HMRC and are appealing it through the courts! What action the SFA take against them has yet to be decided but that's for another shameful day.

To suggest Rangers support, and by association, the club (remember their signing policies in the not too distant past?) are not bigots is absurd. I apologise for not mincing my words but we've all seen it.

SKY and the associated dogma of the TV money is simply a symptom of a greater problem and this next step is the most important of the Association's history.

You are wrong. The EBT has not been decided!! Rangers are in the process of going through a TAX tribunal that will decide on the EBT scheme. That judgement has still to be dedided.

HMRC have NOT yet given them a uge bill as it stands at present the £75m possible bill is still that possible.

HMRC may well agree to a CVa for 2 reason 1, They want the Club to be taken over by someone who will pay taxes. 2. If they are given the chance to get £5m or 0 via a liquidation then they will take the cash.

What I said was make your arguement through reasoned arguements without using the bigot taht has nothing to do with this problem.

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You are wrong. The EBT has not been decided!! Rangers are in the process of going through a TAX tribunal that will decide on the EBT scheme. That judgement has still to be dedided.

HMRC have NOT yet given them a uge bill as it stands at present the £75m possible bill is still that possible.

HMRC may well agree to a CVa for 2 reason 1, They want the Club to be taken over by someone who will pay taxes. 2. If they are given the chance to get £5m or 0 via a liquidation then they will take the cash.

What I said was make your arguement through reasoned arguements without using the bigot taht has nothing to do with this problem.

That's not my understanding.

HMRC have previously stated that they will not agree to CVAs (one of the reasons Dundee had to do a bit of Jiggery-pokery with the books to dilute HMRC's %). Given Craig Whyte's history with them then it remains to be seen.

They wouldn't get 0 from liquidation. The assets from the company would be split between creditors proportionally. This makes the proposed shifting of assets even more unpalatable to the reasoned observer.

All semantics in any case. The principle of wealth over integrity in a sporting competition is fundamentally wrong.

Edited by Calypso Kid

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both, however, have the same impact on creditors.

From what I se the new owner is trying a ploy to get away without any additional penalties next season. He will lay under a new co and then once the cva is complete transfer everything back to the old co and start under the old co.

So simple way round it is to continue with the penalties that he would have received 10 points deduction each season and 75% of money kept.

Millar gets his new co, Rangers get punished and fans are content? Would you agree to that?

Nope. If they create a new company ( ie liquidation) they should NOT get entry to the SPL. The fact that due to finacial considerations they will get back in makes it even worse. If they are intent on arranging a CVA and paying creditors then there should be NO NEED to form a new company. Just get it done and lets get on. I don't know why they feel they have to split the company IF they are truthful about paying creditors:?:

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Its when you hear people such as Sandy Jardine saying that there is no need for sporting integrity that for me I knew the game was up. Its a bit like when a child works out that the WWE is just a giant acting game and then the whole thing becomes a waste of time.

If we are going down the franchising route then why not relegate Saints and replace us with Dundee as they have bigger home crowds.

There are social reasons why I will probably renew my season ticket but I am not going to make that call until the very last day of the early discount window if the Newco are admitted back into the league via the franchising route as proposed by Miller and seemingly accepted by Doncaster (who needs sacked as soon as possible) and the rest of the SPL.

I also don't want to hurt Saints financially but don't care for the other teams therefore I have already stopped going to away games. I wont be there tomorrow, did not go to Celtic or Motherwell. Now if I can do this at a time when we have something to play for how easy will it be when the team is not so good or its a cold wet November day.

I know what is being said on Pie and Bovril about a blanket season ticket boycott but an away boycott would seem to me to be a better option to me.

Scottish society will be far worse for Rangers survival. This organisation along with the one from the east end of Glasgow still rely on events that happened 100's of years ago to drive their product. The you tube clips from last weekend show its not a minority as the clubs like to put it. Just watch for all the orange scarf's next week. if they had had the guts to kill the club off then in one generation the majority of the sectarian issues in Scotland would have been eradicated. Celtic's support would have become more mainstream and we could get on with the game of football.

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