An open letter to St Johnstone Chairman Steve Brown

[mainstand]

Sorry, but I don't have a clue what you mean by that. I do know that on the 9th June, you unfairly accused me of hijacking the "Season Ticket" thread and spouting "anti newco rigged league nonsense" . You later denied ever having said that my views were nonsense! Last night, you appeared to be revelling in the fact that SevCo has paid a tiny proportion of the monies it owes.

If I have mistakenly inferred from these posts that you are in some way sympathetic to the mighty Rangers, then I apologise sincerely. But I hope you will understand why your previous comments could be interpreted in that way.

It is not possible that you can come to an opinion without being for one or the other? As has been said by SLF and Cagey If anything I would favour the other side of the OF.

If you were to judge everyone by the posts they make then I would say you have a tendany to the same side of the OF.

[Percy Johnston]

If you were to judge everyone by the posts they make then I would say you have a tendany to the same side of the OF.

Then you would be wrong. I refer you to #2847, posted only a few hours ago, for my most recently-expressed views on Celtic. I would be utterly delighted if they were to go the same way as their evil twins. Clear enough for you?

About three months ago (he says, desperately trying to get back on topic), people were speculating about which of the two arse-cheeks Steve Brown favoured. It's just wrong. Scottish football will never move forward until it breaks out of the "aye, but who's your big team?" mindset which you sadly continue to inhabit.

Please forgive my intolerance and I am not picking on you alone - it's just that I honestly, genuinely, totally do not understand why any Saints supporter feels the need to have a "tendency" towards one or other of those equally awful clubs. Why? Do you have a "tendency" towards Ayr United instead of Kilmarnock, for instance? Do you "favour" Inverness Caley above Ross County? Portsmouth over Southampton?

Nope, thought not.

[mainstand]

Percy I think you really need to chill out,

I am a football fan who supports Saints! I do have some other teams that I like or support ie Manu Utd over Man City, Liverpool over Everton, Chelsea over Arsenal Alloa over Stirling Hibs over hearts.etc

As for the Old Firm, I detest rangers and have slightly less of a dislike for celtic unless we are playing them then i detest them with the same venom.

[Broon]

Do you have a "tendency" towards Ayr United instead of Kilmarnock, for instance? Do you "favour" Inverness Caley above Ross County? Portsmouth over Southampton?

Nope, thought not.

Actually, I think you're wrong there. In most games I would have a tendancy to support one team over the other for various reasons e.g. above - Ayr to beat Killie (love the underdog + hate Kenny Sheils so would always support Ayr). I always look out for Falkirk results becuase I am from Falkirk. I always look out for Clyde results because I live next to their stadium. Blackburn Rovers are my English team (my wife supports them and we go to games). I like Middlesbrough because I have family there and go to some of their games. In most OF games I would prefer one wins over the other albeit this depends on who is further ahead in the league (I want the league to be close). I think its natural that Football fans have tendencies towards other clubs based on their own experiences of the game and we shouldn't be shamed for it. It's not like we support these clubs as we do Saints. We're not cheating on our club!

Edited August 15, 2012 by Broon

[ryangordon86]

Then you would be wrong. I refer you to #2847, posted only a few hours ago, for my most recently-expressed views on Celtic. I would be utterly delighted if they were to go the same way as their evil twins. Clear enough for you?

About three months ago (he says, desperately trying to get back on topic), people were speculating about which of the two arse-cheeks Steve Brown favoured. It's just wrong. Scottish football will never move forward until it breaks out of the "aye, but who's your big team?" mindset which you sadly continue to inhabit.

Please forgive my intolerance and I am not picking on you alone - it's just that I honestly, genuinely, totally do not understand why any Saints supporter feels the need to have a "tendency" towards one or other of those equally awful clubs. Why? Do you have a "tendency" towards Ayr United instead of Kilmarnock, for instance? Do you "favour" Inverness Caley above Ross County? Portsmouth over Southampton?

Nope, thought not.

Steve Brown supports Rangers, this is a well known fact!

Your militant attitude on the subject of the OF is getting seriously tiresome, not everything is black and white. If Rangers are paid up to the terms of their agreement with Hearts then they have no overdue debt to any Scottish team IMO.

[deej]

Calm down Ryan, once is enough

[Percy Johnston]

Steve Brown supports Rangers, this is a well known fact!

You have just succinctly proved the point I was trying to make in post #2852 . Football supporters in Scotland have to move on from their pathetic need to speculate about which Glasgow team every chairman/player/journalist sympathises with. All it's doing is perpetuating the myth that those two teams are more important than others.

Your militant attitude on the subject of the OF is getting seriously tiresome

Well, tough. Put me on 'ignore' if it bothers you so much, because I'm not going to shut up about what remains the biggest scandal to hit Scottish football in the last 50 years, perhaps ever.

In three years' time (maybe less if Dungcaster and Regan have their way about league reorganisation) when we simply end up back where we were before, it will be people like you, turning a blind eye to the ongoing cheating of ex-Rangers, who'll have been to blame, not me.

So instead of picking on a fellow Saints supporter who's attempting to help right some wrongs, try talking a proper look at ex-Rangers; if you can't still see the same old bullying, patronising, arrogance and manipulation that has dragged Scottish football down for decades, then more fool you.

[Percy Johnston]

Actually, I think you're wrong there. In most games I would have a tendancy to support one team over the other for various reasons e.g. above - Ayr to beat Killie (love the underdog + hate Kenny Sheils so would always support Ayr). I always look out for Falkirk results becuase I am from Falkirk. I always look out for Clyde results because I live next to their stadium. Blackburn Rovers are my English team (my wife supports them and we go to games). I like Middlesbrough because I have family there and go to some of their games.

I understand what you're saying there and like you, I have a natural affinity for the underdog (It comes from being a Saints supporter ) And I agree, of course, that there are sometimes family and/or geographical connections which would lead Saints supporters to have an interest in other clubs.

But what I was getting at in my conversation with Mainstand is that I can't understand, or agree with, people who for no apparent reason say they have a preference (however slight) for Celtic over ex-Rangers - or vice versa. Everyone in Scotland must surely be aware of all the baggage that comes with those clubs - so why pollute oneself with it? I would say that it's far better to keep one's distance, and detest them both in equal measure!

Also, what really annoys me is the assumption - which more than a few on here have made - that because I have been highly outspoken about the evil machinations of ex-Rangers, I must therefore somehow have a slight leaning towards Celtic. It's utter nonsense (as anyone who knows me will confirm).

Finally - gonnae everyone stop referring to the "OF"? The only part of that cringeworthy phrase which is now apposite is "old". Thank you.

[dave mc]

The Arabs claiming Hughie Green has lied about paying football debts to them!! Surprise surprise!!

[Pop]

The Arabs claiming Hughie Green has lied about paying football debts to them!! Surprise surprise!!

I believe he is know saying that the Arab debt lay with the old co and it wasn't his obligation to pay it.

Under that logic he presumably owes nothing to anyone?

Either Mr Green is trying to pull a fast one or I have massively misinterpreted the deal that was struck for league membership.

[saintj]

Percy, what's the big deal whether someone prefers 1 half of the Old Firm to the other? Or dislikes 1 more than the other? Lots of people have a preference 1 way or the other and I'm sure there are reasons why.

At the end of the day, Mainstand is a Saints fan, pays his money to see them, so what's the big deal if he has a preference?

[Saint Ziggy Stardust]

FFS, just close this thread. The original issue is pretty much done and dusted. It's just going to descend into even more petty squabbling.

[Pop]

FFS, just close this thread. The original issue is pretty much done and dusted. It's just going to descend into even more petty squabbling.

Or merge with the Ibrox latest one?

To be honest this story is far from done and it's impact will have more significance for Saints in the coming years than anything I can remember, so maybe it will be open for some time to come.

[Saint Ziggy Stardust]

I agree the Rangers saga is far from over, but our part in it is. As you say the "Ibrox latest" one is still open for discussion.

[Saint Ziggy Stardust]

FWIW, I think Rangers being bumped to Div 3 will have so little overall effect on us it might as well be considered zero.

[mainstand]

Soulful if you have not given up the will to live by the time you get to this post then please just ignore the comment about paying to charity.

Percy good luck with saving the planet once you have succeeded in your current campaign.

Edited August 15, 2012 by mainstand

[soulfulsaint]

Mainstand thinks that they will repay the debt - I'm willing to have small wager with him.

Will be more than pleased to contribute to a charity of your choice Mainstand But do you really think they have paid the debts? Dundee United the supposed recipients don't neither do Rapid Vienna. They owe Hearts a wedge - the fact that they have yet time to make the payment dates does not eleiminate it as a debt.

Many weasel words have been used. I think you should trust you old buddy soulful rather than those that have a vested interest in spinning yarns via our obliging national newspapers.

[mainstand]

Will be more than pleased to contribute to a charity of your choice Mainstand But do you really think they have paid the debts? Dundee United the supposed recipients don't neither do Rapid Vienna. They owe Hearts a wedge - the fact that they have yet time to make the payment dates does not eleiminate it as a debt.

Many weasel words have been used. I think you should trust you old buddy soulful rather than those that have a vested interest in spinning yarns via our obliging national newspapers.

yes I should know by now, I will maybe see if you and your old mucker would do a wee off the ball for mt boys club that would raise loads we could ask charles green along.

[stevensan]

FWIW, I think Rangers being bumped to Div 3 will have so little overall effect on us it might as well be considered zero.

I think you are massively underestimating where this is going. SPL clubs have not been paid TV money owed to them by the SPL as a result of the SPL's lack of conviction. There is going to be another attempt to get Sevco into the SPL - all their players are saying so - Sandaza and Black have told press they expect to be in the SPL next season.

Us fans made a massive difference in stopping them being put into the SPL in the first place. If we give up now they will be back there before you can blink.

Rangers don't play in div 3 btw - THE Rangers do. They are not one and the same.

[soulfulsaint]

I can stand Scottish teams like Saints and Motherwell being beaten fairly and squarely in Europe. But I find it humiliating that we are not more alert to old Rangers debts. Not only do they owe Rapid Vienna significant sums of money - there is a knock-on effect. Rapid owe Jelavic’s previous side, Zulte-Waregem in Belgium, €325,000 as part of a sell-on clause. This is a club the size of Falkirk. If that had happened to Saints, and as a consequence a club in Austria or Belgium hadn't paid us for a big player and we faced financial ruin, there would be melt down on this forum. There is a very simple morality here. If Dundee Utd get paid - fine. But that does not legitimise cheating clubs abroad, and I suspect UEFA agree. For those that find morality boring by all means read another thread, but this one has two or three years to go yet before it can reasonably be closed, and it impacts on St Johsntone to this day. We have lived through the biggest and most scandalous fraud in the history of Scottish football and anyone who thinks its over is not paying attention.

[Saint Ziggy Stardust]

I think you are massively underestimating where this is going. SPL clubs have not been paid TV money owed to them by the SPL as a result of the SPL's lack of conviction. There is going to be another attempt to get Sevco into the SPL - all their players are saying so - Sandaza and Black have told press they expect to be in the SPL next season.

Us fans made a massive difference in stopping them being put into the SPL in the first place. If we give up now they will be back there before you can blink.

Rangers don't play in div 3 btw - THE Rangers do. They are not one and the same.

Rangers will be back in the SPL when they win the leagues to get them there and not before, and that's coming from a cynic like me. No way in hell now is there going to be any jiggery-pokery in their favour to fast track them. They're going to be back in three years anyway so to risk the whole of Scottish football going apeshit at a dodgy deal would be suicide.

As for your last point. Surely no one seriously thinks that the club in division three is not the old Rangers? They are one and the same, and they are going to be back in the SPL very soon and the worst of their followers are going to be worse than ever.

In five years time, there is not one club in Scotland that is going to have significantly been impacted by all this. SJFC will be the same as they are now, so will Rangers, Celtic and everyone else.

[ANDY5565]

Rangers are Rangers, old or new, its still the same and always will be. they will be back (because they are a good team (best ever in Scotland anyway and always have been

your hatered should be more equally balanced by adding the S.F.A. (once you get rid of them...!

no one here knows or give twa shanques who the fuque are Rangers here (and neither do i....until i got contaminated by W.A.P.s more intel gent isa bigotry thumselves and am having no more

Save the ****

Edited August 16, 2012 by ANDY5565

[Wish i was Joe McGurn]

I can stand Scottish teams like Saints and Motherwell being beaten fairly and squarely in Europe. But I find it humiliating that we are not more alert to old Rangers debts. Not only do they owe Rapid Vienna significant sums of money - there is a knock-on effect. Rapid owe Jelavic’s previous side, Zulte-Waregem in Belgium, €325,000 as part of a sell-on clause. This is a club the size of Falkirk. If that had happened to Saints, and as a consequence a club in Austria or Belgium hadn't paid us for a big player and we faced financial ruin, there would be melt down on this forum. There is a very simple morality here. If Dundee Utd get paid - fine. But that does not legitimise cheating clubs abroad, and I suspect UEFA agree. For those that find morality boring by all means read another thread, but this one has two or three years to go yet before it can reasonably be closed, and it impacts on St Johsntone to this day. We have lived through the biggest and most scandalous fraud in the history of Scottish football and anyone who thinks its over is not paying attention.

[Wish i was Joe McGurn]

But we are not being beaten fair and square in Europe though.

We are in a false position due to a co efficient that is based on a club cheating. We had two champions league places on the basis of rangers and as they were in no position to control the finances over years has sent us to the situation we are in now and have been over probably the last decade.

Yeah its good to get it as a club like ours but in truth we shouldn't be.

[soulfulsaint]

But we are not being beaten fair and square in Europe though.

We are in a false position due to a co efficient that is based on a club cheating. We had two champions league places on the basis of rangers and as they were in no position to control the finances over years has sent us to the situation we are in now and have been over probably the last decade.

Yeah its good to get it as a club like ours but in truth we shouldn't be.

I accept your point Joe but paradoxcially if Rangers had not been in Europe for the last few years the co-efficient would be higher not worse - maybe stevensan has the stats I read them elsewhere.