Levein Tenure Up?


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I think he's done well in increasing the amount of players at his disposal, looking around for those who might qualify to play, bringing in Rhodes and Mackie etc. But he's poor tactically, the players look as demoralised as they did under Berti - just seeing them coming off the pitch last night. He's got a far better squad than Walter Smith and Alex McLeish ever had, but is doing badly with them. As I said on the other post: 2 more games, must get 4 points or he's gone.

Replacements: Strachan, Walter Smith, Alex McLeish or Billy Davies.

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I think he's done well in increasing the amount of players at his disposal, looking around for those who might qualify to play, bringing in Rhodes and Mackie etc. But he's poor tactically, the players look as demoralised as they did under Berti - just seeing them coming off the pitch last night. He's got a far better squad than Walter Smith and Alex McLeish ever had, but is doing badly with them. As I said on the other post: 2 more games, must get 4 points or he's gone.

Replacements: Strachan, Walter Smith, Alex McLeish or Billy Davies.

I would agree with most of this Linky, but our problems are far deeper than the tactics of the manager.

The seeding system should inform our expectations before a ball is kicked……..all things going to form Scotland should be 4th in this group, that’s how the bookies would punt it….for a reason, they are not often wrong. Guess where we sit after 2 games? We have 2 points the leaders have 4, we can still win our next game and be joint top of the group. The way this group is shaping up the winner of this group will qualify with the fewest points ever. Macedonia will be totally pyssed off, they have had the better of Scotland and Croatia away, and have only a single point.

Scottish football is in a mess, British football is in a mess! Look at the results last night. England draw at Wembley with Ukraine, Wales are utterly shagged by Serbia, Northern Ireland draw with Luxembourg. Scotland, in the end, were fortunate to draw with Macedonia. 20 years ago these results would be unthinkable. In the past we always dreaded drawing Yugoslavia, always a dark horse. (I was talking to a Greek colleague at work who warned that Macedonia will be formidable opponents, among Greek football fans the FYRs are described as the ‘Brazilians of Europe’) Now we are wary of being drawn with Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia, Slovenia. Similarly as the map of Europe changes the Baltic nations are now on a par with our efforts.

The truth is our game has stagnated for for decades. Every club has failed to embrace new ideas and innovations that are standard in other countries. It was only 3 years ago that some of our most senior squad members requested permission from the manager to have couple of beers after a late flight from an away game, (with another vital qualifier 48 hours ahead) when the manager came down for breakfast the following morning they were still propping up the bar......and our latest saviour Fletcher gets a weekend off from his 40k per week day job and goes straight to Ibiza and on the lash with his mates.....If I were chairman of Sunderland I'd chew his bollocks off for that photo, what a slap in the puss for fans of that club. We are now lagging behind the nations we once raced ahead of. We have been forced to reintroduce youth systems after a decade and more of employing mediocre imports and paying them a fortune, left most clubs with crippling debts. The next generation will hopefully be better. Craig Levein revamped the youth coaching system at Tannadice and is making similar suggestions at Scotland level, but at international management it is unlikely he will get the time to see it through. If he does get punted which seems probable, Strachan is a stick on for the job, and when his results are less than satisfactory we will be having the same discussion in 18 months time.

Edited by Smarmy Arab
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I agree on the Fletcher point - always thought it was more than coincidence when last season's drop in form at Saints coincided with the squad's weekend away in Spain. Is the attitude of the players the main problem then? We've had issues with so many players (McGregor,Ferguson,Boyd,Fletcher) on this issue.

Looking at when the Scottish national team play, and when Scottish teams play in European competitions, fitness seems to be a big factor. Scottish players, and those who play for Scottish clubs particularly, always seem slower and they get tired more quickly. If you look at players from Spain and Italy they are top atheletes, not just top players. Macedonia looked quicker with clipped passing and they were prepared to run at defenders.

Is this why most Scottish players can't hack it abroad (Boyd & Miller for example)? I think McGregor will become one of the best goalies around if he sticks it out in Turkey, the extra experience of being in a different league, different players and environment will do wonders. The more of our players who go abroad, rather than the English 2nd or 3rd divisions, the better.

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I agree on the Fletcher point - always thought it was more than coincidence when last season's drop in form at Saints coincided with the squad's weekend away in Spain. Is the attitude of the players the main problem then? We've had issues with so many players (McGregor,Ferguson,Boyd,Fletcher) on this issue.

Looking at when the Scottish national team play, and when Scottish teams play in European competitions, fitness seems to be a big factor. Scottish players, and those who play for Scottish clubs particularly, always seem slower and they get tired more quickly. If you look at players from Spain and Italy they are top atheletes, not just top players. Macedonia looked quicker with clipped passing and they were prepared to run at defenders.

Is this why most Scottish players can't hack it abroad (Boyd & Miller for example)? I think McGregor will become one of the best goalies around if he sticks it out in Turkey, the extra experience of being in a different league, different players and environment will do wonders. The more of our players who go abroad, rather than the English 2nd or 3rd divisions, the better.

Loads of theories as to why British football is falling so far behind, and it is a 'British' problem. England manage to qualify due to their place in the seedings, which yields far easier fixtures, but their problems are not dissimilar to ours. English football has also been the fortunate beneficiary of Arsene Wenger and the 'special one', who undoubtedly raised the bar over the last 10 years, and set standards in coaching and training which every club followed. (Just as Craig Levein's model at Tannadice will be duplicated by every club in Scotland over the next decade.)

There is also the problem of a class ridden society. Football developed in Britain in the 19th century as affordable entertainment for the industrial working class and remains proudly working class in its norms and practices. Nothing wrong with the working class, but the manual working class in its traditional form is a shrinking section of the population. How many Scotland or England internationals are bilingual? or indeed strive for high educational attainment? The rough and ready 'get the ****** ba up the park' dripping in hyper-masculinity is every bit as exclusive as the old boys rugby networks. This culture which exists at all levels of football is denying the game broad appeal from other sections of the community. Jose Mourinho was asked what was wrong with British football at the level of internationals, he smiled and said in England you train players to win, in Europe we train players to play. When you think about his comment and relate it to your own experiences of football.....he has a point.

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Avril got pelters, and rightly so, from significant numbers of us after the Serbia show. Much of the criticism was of Miller, who looked like a "superstars" chump who's been brought out of retirement for the occasion. That mistimed header, and the sclaffed shot we embarrassing. Averils's response - make Miller captain for the next game.

The other specific thing I'd like to criticise is in order to progress from the group we need to win home games against weaker opponents as a platform to build on. Therefore the team shape and selection should be positive. So Averil plays one up front, and it's Miller.

Finally, he looks like a Jakey.

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I can see his point about Rhodes - up until yesterday he had only played a couple of games above the THIRD tier in English football, hardly a sound basis for arguing he could score at international level. If he carries on his form in the next couple of weeks however it is going to be very difficult to leave him on the bench.

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Out of interest, is this the same Jordan Rhodes that missed two sitters when he did get on against Macedonia?

Hardly sitters though, were they? First one he was outside the front post and it was a difficult chance. The second the defender got his foot on the ball in front of Rhodes.

I think you have to play players in form. Rhodes is, as is mackail smith, who wasn't even in the squad!

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Out of interest, is this the same Jordan Rhodes that missed two sitters when he did get on against Macedonia?

I refer to a point of view I made in the Scotland v Macedonia thread

If Rhodes had been on from the start, he could have settled into the game. Coming on when he did puts extra pressure on him as the crowd were calling for him and he must have felt an expectation to produce the winner. Had a couple of chances that if he had been on longer I think he would have taken. He also won some nice knock-on's and played some clever through balls.

You really are an annoying, pompous git and for some reason feel the need to back up Levein purely because of his former association with your club, while doing so in an irrating superior way

Edited by Edstar101
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I think Craig Levein should stay because he's entitled to get the qualifying period and because all the quality alternatives are in club management. Forget Walter Smith and McCleish because they walked away. Levein has put together one of the best squads we've had for a whi;e in terms of flair but our players relative to International football are what they are, occasionally worse or better. We just have to hope this group of players gel in a particular game, hopefully Wales, and that we then see a positive future. The truth is we've not been good for years and it hasn't been because of managers. The SFA finally and thankfully recognised for small countries we need a formal youth development process within Scotland and where the kids learn and play quality football rather than disappearing into so called youth setups. Craig Levein has been involved in this so he should get time in this qualification anyway

The only megatives I have is playing a Vancouver (great place) centre forward in a competitive European international match which are tough and not playing Fletcher no matter what the problem is. The latter is one of the best players you'll get at ghosting inbetween defenders and pouncing for a goal. Craig is obviously rewarding loyalty and it's difficult to argue against especially in a club side situation which is what he wants with Scotland, and nobody can argue with that either.

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