Dundee Utd V Saints 24/8/13

[ex-montrosesaintee]

Oh, and enjoyed the Ghostie commentary - should have introduced myself sitting right behind you sir.

[Edstar101]

Oh, and enjoyed the Ghostie commentary - should have introduced myself sitting right behind you sir.

 

and could you see any of the game?

[SaintSam1884]

I think it goes to show just how pivotal a role Mannus plays in our defensive record. Maybe you can't blame Banks for each individual goal (though I don't think Mannus would've conceded all of them) but he is poor at commanding his area and stays rooted to his line at every cross into the box. Mannus on the other hand comes for nearly every cross into the box. I thought he looked ropey against Ross County with relatively little to do and I knew we would really struggle against United if he was as reluctant to claim anything in the air as he looked last weekend. You can see he is a decent shot stopper but a keeper at this level needs so much more than that about his game. I genuinely don't think he is good enough to be back up to Mannus. If Mannus got a serious injury this season, we would really struggle with Banks and Clarke probably isn't ready yet.

[Radford 72]

Very different to the 4-0 that Saints fans saw last week when Ross County barely got off the bus. Thought Saints started well today but the goal was exactly what United needed in a game at Tannadice, where their form hasn't been great over the past year. Can argue about whether Watson should be allowed to cut in but Banks totally taken out of the game by the deflection. Very similar to a goal Jennison Myrie-Williams scored against us at the same end three years ago. Felt we reacted fine to the goal and were probably on the front foot when Cregg hooks a stupid ball back towards Wright then seconds later gives away a stupid foul on Mackay-Steven. A simple free kick into the box, simple header and Goodwillie has all the freedom in the world to head past Banks, glued to his line.

 

Even then, I still felt we were in the game, although lucky not to go three down when Banks made a good save from another deflected effort. For all we were playing in the right areas and passing it about alright, when didn't really test Cierzniak and United were able to play as maybe suits them, on the break. Third goal a good counter attacking move with a great run by Robertson (who was very impressive - we've missed out there as he was in at McDiarmid late last season) and although the pass didn't seem that perfect, Banks again was stuck to his line and by the time he decided to come, was too late and too slow, although it still looked a neat finish by Mackay-Steven.

 

Neat finishing isn't something Saints can claim and Hasselbaink spurns our first clear sight of goal early in the second half then not long after Banks is beaten again by a looping Armstrong effort. Maybe being critical of the goalkeeper but he reminded me of both Alan Main upon our return to the SPL and Rab Douglas last season, a decent keeper maybe still capable of making good saves but lacking the agility probably required at this level. 4-0 finally knocked the last bit of fight out of us, although we missed another couple of really good chances (MacLean misses more sitters than any striker I can remember) and United in truth could have scored another couple.

 

It's hard to explain what went wrong for us but if you lose a lucky first goal, you can't afford to switch off as we did for the second. Davidson feel out of the game following his head knock and Wright (like Lomas before him) needs to take more control in those situations. Davidson would play on if one of his legs fell off but it doesn't help the team. Surprised he seemed to alter the shape after the second goal as felt the match as at the very least even until that point and it didn't help us at all. May needs to be up top, not shoved out wide and MacLean was too isolated. A few players just had an off day, which you have to excuse after six or seven largely good performances.

 

Certainly not a cause to panic but Wright maybe needs to consider whether Banks is up to covering in the absence of Mannus.

[ex-montrosesaintee]

Did I imagine Muzz fresh airing a header a couple of minutes after his knock - double vision? He looked seriously groggy, and should maybe have been hooked earlier. He's a game changing player though. An in-form Muzz could have taken control in that game, but with Paddy having a poor day, a lot fell on his shoulders.

[RandomGuy]

Nothing wrong with the line up, or formation. It was just a poor display from the players

[THE LARK SAINT]

Thanks Mr Banks but are you too old, too wee and not agile enough!!Got to go im afraidGREG FALCONER 1( or we will get pumped again) never comes off his line was to blame for at least 2 of the goals.Defence have no confidence in him!!The management and players know it.We need to go out and get a keeper on loan for a month.

Utd had about 5 efforts on target and scored 4, we outplayed them at times but never threatened there keeper.

Still in this league first goal is a killer never mind going 2-0 down , then 3

We will bounce back, every team gets a doing( shame it had to be against these chunts)

Onwards and up wards!!C.O.Y.S

[Dave Ferg]

Good to see you back Radford.

[Radford 72]

Good to see you back Radford.

 

Catharsis required after that result, Dave.

 

On the goalkeeping situation, I thought we probably had enough to see us through the absence of Mannus but today has to raise doubts about Banks. I've seen a bit of Clark for the U20s and I like him but would suggest management don't feel he's ready.

 

The obvious name that jumps out as a short-term fix is Steve Simonsen.

[The Real Saints]

Catharsis required after that result, Dave.

 

On the goalkeeping situation, I thought we probably had enough to see us through the absence of Mannus but today has to raise doubts about Banks. I've seen a bit of Clark for the U20s and I like him but would suggest management don't feel he's ready.

 

The obvious name that jumps out as a short-term fix is Steve Simonsen.

 

 

I'm not sure Clark is ready either. I haven't seen too much of him, but he looked far from the finished article in the friendly against Morecambe.

[ex-montrosesaintee]

Catharsis required after that result, Dave.

On the goalkeeping situation, I thought we probably had enough to see us through the absence of Mannus but today has to raise doubts about Banks. I've seen a bit of Clark for the U20s and I like him but would suggest management don't feel he's ready.

The obvious name that jumps out as a short-term fix is Steve Simonsen.

I thought Sally was still looking at Simonsen at Sevco? I thought Banks was OK today, and not at fault for goals 1,2 or 4 really. Can we really expect to have 2 top class keepers on our budget?

Difficult one I reckon. Simonsen is a quality keeper though.

[SaintSam1884]

I thought Sally was still looking at Simonsen at Sevco? I thought Banks was OK today, and not at fault for goals 1,2 or 4 really. Can we really expect to have 2 top class keepers on our budget?

Difficult one I reckon. Simonsen is a quality keeper though.

He had a couple of really good saves today but other than that, if we are being brutally honest, he was mince. I could dress it up with less negative words but he was crap. There may well be reasons for it - lack of match fitness and his age but he was still crap. Have you ever seen a goalkeeper glued to his line at every set piece? He might as well not be there.

We are ridiculously fortunate to have such a good keeper as our number one, but the back up has to be better than this.

[Wendy Saints]

Too hard on the goalie...

1st goal deflected

3rd goal off side

4 th goal deflected..

I do think our defence look nervous with Banks behind them though...if you watch they are always looking behind to see where he is/what he's doing. Thought he had a couple of good saves... A confident keeper like Mannus breeds confidence in those in front of him!

More worrying today was McLean, I think he is a really good footballer with some good touches, but not someone you can rely upon to score! Unfortunately a couple of times today chances fell to him, when I think May would have finished better. ( May put in another great shift all over the park).

3 points next week imperative?!?

[ex-montrosesaintee]

It's just luck really. We had Tuffey last year and Mannus played every game bar 1.

[SaintSam1884]

It's just luck really. We had Tuffey last year and Mannus played every game bar 1.

I know what you are saying and I do agree with you but would you be happy with Banks if Mannus did pick up a season long injury?

[THE LARK SAINT]

Sadly i think Banks will continue to cost us points, not his fault, see all above!I too would like to see some one like Simonsen brought in for a month!!

[ancientsaint]

Performance today was really disapointing and the heads went down far too often - yeah we all now realise what ALAN MANNUS means to Saints and in hindsight its easy to pick holes in BANKS performance BUT he is 41/42 and he was left totally exposed by a defence that has been so solid this season and last.

The first goal was a huge deflection and he had no chance.

The second was Goodwullie left in space to head home.

The third was mainly down to a ball left for the keeper and GMS nipped in to poke it under him.

The fourth looked a yard offside before the cross came in and should have been cleared by the defence.

We were second to most balls and got punished by UTD.

HIGH Balls from defence to Strikers took out the midfield and we need to get it on the deck.

UTD deserved their win and hopefully this is a kick up the erse that we need - its early days and we are still in with a chance so lets ALL get to Aberdeen next week and get behind the boys/lads / men and feck the Dons.

[templeofsaints]

Bad performance today - hopefully just a one off. Too many players failed to live up to their own standards.

 

Banks was at fault for a couple of the goals (esp the 3rd IMHO). Defensively we were caught flat-footed too often. Midfield saw Spoony and Cregg have poor games and too often we won the ball but then just gave it away. McLean was poor up front and for all his running Stevie showed he's still got a bit to learn.

 

Generally though we lacked urgency and a clinical approach to the game - too keen to do the patient build up and give the ball away far too easily leaving us open to the counterattack.

 

One other point - some of the soft challenges that saw Saints players go down were embarassing - especially when they could have kept going and possibly won the ball back.

 

Onwards and upwards.

[ajs]

A point in Aberdeen would be a good result, we are getting carried away thinking we can win every game

[Honest Saints Fan]

The fighting amongst our fans was more entertaining than the game tbh.

[Edstar101]

The fighting amongst our fans was more entertaining than the game tbh.

 

Really!! What happened there then...first mention I have seen of it

[Honest Saints Fan]

Seems a gentleman grassed up one of the 'young team' to the police, in front of said young team who weren't particularly happy about it. Nothing physical but a verbal argument happened.

The old man next to me was not happy with the fact the old man in front of him was standing so told him to sit down, which he did, but he then moaned he couldn't see. Said man went and sat behind moany old man. Moany old man then stood up. Cue the man who had just moved behind happy tap his shoulder and told him to sit down, they also had an arguement and the moany old man shouted at him '****ing shut up or I will plant one on you.' These two men were both over 60. It was childish and hilarious.

[HOODLUM65]

Stevie Banks could have done better at the first and the third IMOP, He is not sharp enough for my liking which is understandable with the amount of games he has played. But until Manuss is fit i think we would be as well going with Zander, It gives him games and i do not think it would have been any more than it was.

==============

Your saying that, but my view was when the shot went in,Banks took off to make the save.

A defender, not sure which one, arched his back and the shot hit him on the back, which raised the trajectory of the ball and beyond Banks despairing dive.

Lucky or unlucky?

Second goal, Badfanny with a free header from close range.

Can't blame keeper for that.

Third goal, ball travelling at pace towards our goal with I think Cuptie chaperoning it back to Banks as he came off his line .

GMS follows up and toe pokes towards goal, somehow eluding Banks. Seems that the ball went through him.

Had he spread his body on the deck, might have blocked it.

Real sickener this one.

Fourth goal, from where I was, when the ball got fed out to the guy on the right wing he looked a yard offside , before he cut it back for them to score.

One of those days when anything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

Particularly galling was we made Dillon look good.

For the Arabs, they had more players capable of passing the ball better than we did on the day.

Not the end of the world by any means.

Win 4-0 one week and lose 4-0 the next doesn't mean the Arabs will beat RC 8-0 when they meet.

Take it on the chin and move on.

[Cagey]

Think we were better team until we went 3 down. Every ball deflected or broke for them. Have felt worse after a defeat ,especially a big one.

Think the line up was too attack minded but after last week,probably most of us would have gone with it.

 

Nige on the surface looked like he had a good game but for all his tricks & entertainment never lead to much.By the time he beats his man 6 or 7 times the defence & midfield are all in their box & his crosses are poor anyway. I dont think he gives left back any help either as Watson had all the space in the world before his shot that would have been easy for Banks.

 

Spoony in the middle was not very effective & May is wasted out wide.

Bad day at the office as they say.

[ANDY5565]

better team till we went three nil down? will sleep better knowing that