Saints Vs Hibernian 14/09/13


David123
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Hate the 442 that Tommy Wright insists in playing - that formation is no longer effective i modern day football . . Please try a last seasons 451 ( 433 ) or a 4231 however I do appreciate how hard it would be for the gaffer to drop Maclean or May .

But the 4-5-1 against Ross County, with MacLean playing in the middle of the 5 worked beautifully. No need to drop either of them. We had the right team out yesterday, just the wrong formation.

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Physio signed to dugout that Wright was fecked.I think the game changed when Fraz went off as he had Hefferman in his pocket.After that Hefferman was controlling the ball & laying it off to their £200k striker who was pish til then.

 

Don`t know why Wright brought Edwards back as he only had one 15 min spell for us that was any good last season.

 

Didn't see the physio signalling to be honest. SACK HIM NOW!

 

But the 4-5-1 against Ross County, with MacLean playing in the middle of the 5 worked beautifully. No need to drop either of them. We had the right team out yesterday, just the wrong formation.

 

MacLean eventually drifted forward to make it a two up front, he likes to play with his back to goal and you can't play that way in midfield. We'd have to drop either him or May if we wanted to go one up front, and I think thats the main reason we're stuck with 4-4-2

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One of the big problems the gaffer has is Stevie May can't play as the 1 in a 4-5-1 and MacLean can't score goals in either formation. We're a better team as a 4-5-1 no question but I think Wright worries about where the goals will come from. Unfortunately we need 5 midfielders in some games and that would mean dropping May but he's our only real goalscorer.

Glad I'm not a manager.

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One of the big problems the gaffer has is Stevie May can't play as the 1 in a 4-5-1 and MacLean can't score goals in either formation. We're a better team as a 4-5-1 no question but I think Wright worries about where the goals will come from. Unfortunately we need 5 midfielders in some games and that would mean dropping May but he's our only real goalscorer.

Glad I'm not a manager.

 

As always really, pretty much agree with what you've said but May played the lone role for most of last season at Accies and scored goals, as he's doing this term. I definitely understand what you are saying though as you drop May and like you say, where do the goals come from, drop MacLean and the ball won't stick. He's paid to find the solution though, which could well be what we saw at Pittodrie and against Rosenborg, with MacLean deeper. It's not like we lose his goal threat doing that and he's a very clever player who we need in the side IMO to link play.

 

Away from home, he's probably got to drop May as crazy as it might sound. Yesterday was unfortunate as Hibs played four battlers in the middle of the park but some/most teams will still come to Perth and play a winger or two and hopefully Cregg and Davidson can get a grip of the midfield more than yesterday, meaning we can continue with Hasselbaink, Wotherspoon, MacLean and May all in the side. If we do come up against a more solid midfield or a team who is likely to play that way, he needs to include Millar in the side at the expense of the one of the more attacking players.

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May can`t do the lone striker as he is no good in the air.If we go one up front it has to be McLean. May has to be in the team so I think he has to play wide & Nige dropped as he flatters to deceive.Looks good & exciting but rare final ball & can only last 45 mins.He is best used as an impact sub when their defence are tiring.

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Having slept on it ....that was a very very poor performance. Started well and Hibs looked woeful but they gradually took command of the game and were deserved winners at the end. I think we lost it in midfield - Muzz was as quiet as any game I havde seen him in. The long ball up the park just wasn't working for us. Would agree with the comments on the subs - Edwards is poor and as an impact sub makes no impact. May if he is given the service will be a handful for any team - his goal was magnificent. 

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Oh lets blame -

what was it the physio ----The managers formation - the team we have - the crowd that doesnt turn up to support the club unless its a cup final or European tie --lets blame the new guy for failing to bring in suitable revenue so that we can buy players that we will all love or hate because they have a bad game ---lets blame the Chairman and his board for failing to take a gamble and buy players that we would inevitably criticize because they had a bad game --lets blame the ground staff for not cutting the grass to a height that gives Saints a better advantage - lets blame the ballcollectors for well just someone else to blanme......OR lets just get over the fact we are all disappointed we lost a bloody game and need to find someone to aim our anger at.......Lets get over it.

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Oh lets blame -

what was it the physio ----The managers formation - the team we have - the crowd that doesnt turn up to support the club unless its a cup final or European tie --lets blame the new guy for failing to bring in suitable revenue so that we can buy players that we will all love or hate because they have a bad game ---lets blame the Chairman and his board for failing to take a gamble and buy players that we would inevitably criticize because they had a bad game --lets blame the ground staff for not cutting the grass to a height that gives Saints a better advantage - lets blame the ballcollectors for well just someone else to blanme......OR lets just get over the fact we are all disappointed we lost a bloody game and need to find someone to aim our anger at.......Lets get over it.

 

May as well just close down the forum then if all discussion around performances and all the things you list above are pointless and we should just wait each week and see what happens :roll:

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May can`t do the lone striker as he is no good in the air.If we go one up front it has to be McLean. May has to be in the team so I think he has to play wide & Nige dropped as he flatters to deceive.Looks good & exciting but rare final ball & can only last 45 mins.He is best used as an impact sub when their defence are tiring.

 

MacLeans no use in the air either. But he holds the ball up and allows the midfield to catch up, and gets them involved. While Mays more likely to turn and drive towards goal. The midfield never gets a chance to get forward and we end up sitting deep and inviting pressure which ends up in a goal. The build up to their winner yesterday was a carbon copy of what we've watched for years, the opposition get a foot hold, the midfield retreats and we end up with no out ball except the big punt up the park that just bring the pressure right back onto us and so it continues until they score. Tade was the only player we've had in recent years that was any good in this situation as he could pressurise the defenders on the ground and in the air, and we miss him to be honest

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Oh lets blame -

what was it the physio ----The managers formation - the team we have - the crowd that doesnt turn up to support the club unless its a cup final or European tie --lets blame the new guy for failing to bring in suitable revenue so that we can buy players that we will all love or hate because they have a bad game ---lets blame the Chairman and his board for failing to take a gamble and buy players that we would inevitably criticize because they had a bad game --lets blame the ground staff for not cutting the grass to a height that gives Saints a better advantage - lets blame the ballcollectors for well just someone else to blanme......OR lets just get over the fact we are all disappointed we lost a bloody game and need to find someone to aim our anger at.......Lets get over it.

You being serious? If you are happy to watch that shite and call it a day out at the football, then on yerself! I pays me money, I demands better.

If we couldn't do better, then fair enough, but that was the same players who were a joy to watch against Ross County, and sublime against Rosenborg.

Yesterday was simply not good enough.

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Right. Have slept on it and have read the views on here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but bout half of what has been said is drivel.

Thought we played well for 15/20 minutes. Scored a cracking goal and Hibs really didn't pose much of a threat apart from Liam's fantastic volley.

But for me the game changed on 2 moments - May clean through on goal and instead of shooting with the left, tries to cut inside beat a defender who was already beaten and goes down. Never a pen from where I was and a fantastic opportunity to go 2-up lost.

Second moment was their goal. They say goals change matches and this one did. From being possibly 2-up at half time we go in 1-1. And the goal was so preventable. Again we lost the ball in midfield but even then we had numerous chances to clear but didn't.

Second half, Saints obviously had in their tea what the ref had both were hopeless.

Essentially we lost our discipline. McLean had to be subbed before he was sent off, Nigel didn't look fit from the start, his usual burst of pace wasn't there and Frazer was injured!

So TW hand was forced. Edwards has pace, hence why he came on, Miller was forced and Fallon, no matter how useless he is, was the only striker on the bench. Given fact we were chasing the game, can you imagine the abuse TW would take if he took a striker off and replaced him with a midfielder???

The reason Robertson looked so good is simple. It happened in first half and countless times in the second - Wotherspoon continually drifted into the middle, leaving acres of space on that flank, leaving Scobbie hopelessly exposed. And there's the discipline side of thing.

And how can anyone have a go at Mannus for the second??? Collins was 1-on-1 with him and the ball fell nicely for him to blast from point blank range - if he's saved it we'd of been hailing it as save of the season! Fact is he did well to get what he did on it and was unlucky to see it cross the line.

Yeah Madden was a disgrace, but we can't let the ref's decisions affect how we play, the players must concentrate on their jobs and in the second half they didn't.

If we'd been 2-0 up, you can bet those frustrations wouldn't have boiled over to the extent they did.

As for the clap-trap that May can't play up front alone - have they not noticed what he's done the last 2 years??? He's effectively learnt his trade as a 1-man strike force. Of course he can play up front alone. He maybe needs to learn a few things in terms of when to go for a high ball, how to jump against a big CB and how to shoot with his left foot. He's a rough diamond, we all know that!

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Agree re Mannus.....as opposed to perhaps being able to do better, he actually did really well to almost save it. The fact he got anything on it was great reactions, and he was very unlucky that the ball stayed on target. He was left badly exposed as the defence were caught flat footed by a clever through ball.

 

It was Collins who hit it, but am sure they were queuing up for the chance with not a Saints player in sight.

 

My concern is that, regardless of the forced nature of the changes, we had a good 30mins to get back into the game after Hibs took the lead. It obviously wasn't working and maybe some radical thinking was required by Tommy as opposed to like for like subs. Perhaps the problem wasn't with who came on from the bench, maybe more with who was on the bench in the first place.

 

I reiterate, Edwards does nothing for me, either does Fallon. I would much rather see Kane or some of the other youngsters (is Caddis injured?) on the bench and coming on. Why not have brought Chris on into a  3 man centre midfield, allowing him to cover for a more free role Spoony when Nige was rightly hooked. Or take off MacLean and push Muzz further forward to support May in a more lone striker role. Something needed to change, and it couldn't have worked any less

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So TW hand was forced. Edwards has pace, hence why he came on, Miller was forced and Fallon, no matter how useless he is, was the only striker on the bench. Given fact we were chasing the game, can you imagine the abuse TW would take if he took a striker off and replaced him with a midfielder???

As for the clap-trap that May can't play up front alone - have they not noticed what he's done the last 2 years??? He's effectively learnt his trade as a 1-man strike force. Of course he can play up front alone. He maybe needs to learn a few things in terms of when to go for a high ball, how to jump against a big CB and how to shoot with his left foot. He's a rough diamond, we all know that!

 

I'd have preferred Hasselbaink to have gone central and Millar to have come on in all honesty. Edwards is far too raw to contribute anything and I'm not entirely sure why he's rated higher than Caddis. Fallon coming on only encourages the long ball which simply doesn't work

 

And playing up front on your own is different in the top league. He needs to learn how to link with the midfield better if he's truly going to be effective in that role against the stronger teams. Being direct is all well and good but you can't do it all match, he simply has to learn to hold the ball up better if the team will progress with him there. Otherwise hes purely wasting his time

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I'd have preferred Hasselbaink to have gone central and Millar to have come on in all honesty. Edwards is far too raw to contribute anything and I'm not entirely sure why he's rated higher than Caddis. Fallon coming on only encourages the long ball which simply doesn't work

And playing up front on your own is different in the top league. He needs to learn how to link with the midfield better if he's truly going to be effective in that role against the stronger teams. Being direct is all well and good but you can't do it all match, he simply has to learn to hold the ball up better if the team will progress with him there. Otherwise hes purely wasting his time

How exactly is he meant to learn and build on the skills he's picked up whilst on loan if he's simply written off as not being able to play in that role and not actually being played there?

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How exactly is he meant to learn and build on the skills he's picked up whilst on loan if he's simply written off as not being able to play in that role and not actually being played there?

 

He has played there, and has shown that his direct style leads to us surrendering possession too quickly in the final third which leads to the midfield sitting too deep. The First and Third divisions are very different from the top league, and so far he's shown nothing to suggest he's the best option in the side as the lone striker. He needs to work on his link up play, our midfield isn't exactly mobile so when the ball is at the strikers feet we need him to be able to hold it up until support arrives in decent numbers. Every so often May can take the defence on without any help and it works, but the majority of times it doesn't

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I felt the game was influenced by the ref.  He was fine (and probably on our side) until around 35 mins.  During this time we played OK.  But when the ref turned on us from 35-90 minutes we were lost. 

 

Why do we react to these refs - all refs are bad - all refs are anti-st johnstone.

 

We need some Martin Hardy attitude.  When everything or everyone goes against us we fight back and teach them that no one who cheats gets the better of us.

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Still believe we should have had a free kick in the build up to their first. Davidson had possession of the ball and they put in two wild kicks the prevented him from moving away with the ball.

 

What was worse than the result and the poor performance was the absolute numpty of a guy I had to sit in front of. Must remember to avoid the halfway line so I never have to sit through another 90 minutes of constant idiocy.

 

We had the same issues today as we did against Minsk - cluless as to how to build up play to score. Kept going from side to side and achieved nothing. When we went through the middle we scored and made or only other chances.

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Still believe we should have had a free kick in the build up to their first. Davidson had possession of the ball and they put in two wild kicks the prevented him from moving away with the ball.

What was worse than the result and the poor performance was the absolute numpty of a guy I had to sit in front of. Must remember to avoid the halfway line so I never have to sit through another 90 minutes of constant idiocy.

We had the same issues today as we did against Minsk - cluless as to how to build up play to score. Kept going from side to side and achieved nothing. When we went through the middle we scored and made or only other chances.

We're you in the main stand? Old geezer sitting in the back row of the bottom section, just right of centre?

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