sixties saintee Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 A Labour government in Scotland will only get elected if the SNP fail to deliver and most on here will be voting Yes to independence so that cannot possibly be anything other than a vote for the SNP at the election when the day arrives. What would be the point of voting any other way? Why is it that no one seems to see that a Yes vote is a vote for Salmond. Before anyone starts telling me to "do one" again can we have a proper adult discussion about this or not? I fear the latter and and fwiw I have seen nothing yet to convince me that Scotland would be better off out of the Union. You can lead a horse to water but Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brogan Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) SaintDunc Of course it's open to debate, and many from both sides have tried to make either factual points or engage in healthy discussion in this thread. It's the future of the country that's at stake. And while it's a big deal that can raise emotions, it's also fantastic that so many are engaged with it and talking about the future. Overall, it's immensely positive. Of course, not everyone has been like this. You, for example, have mocked, insinuated, derogated and exaggerated without ever making a single constructive comment. By dragging the debate into the gutter you've stifled the reasoned exchange of views, criticising anyone who holds opposing views as 'deluded' and 'brainwashed' while - without a hint of shame - requesting a 'proper adult discussion' and calling for civility. But I suspect this was your intention from the start, because it means you don't have to bother to actually think for yourself. Edited September 6, 2014 by Brogan Saintdunc, garydavidson, Honest Saints Fan and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 It is a forum, which means the topic is open for discussion and debate by members, but once again some of you have hijacked the thread as a place where only those who post positive stuff about breaking away can be heard. You have been brainwashed and all you try to do is bully those with an alternative opinion. It is as much for people of the United Kingdom as it is for Scotland. Learn a bit of civility.Well said Dunc. As ghostie once said opinions ate like arseholes we all have one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelosi Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 In your opinion would either Scotland or England build and patrol a border around 100 miles long, create a physical barrier much like Hadrian's Wall if Scotland became an independent country....why would this be necessary? Why would we require a different immigration policy from England and the rest of the UK, when anyone could just simply walk across any so called border on foot..assuming that England would'nt finance another Berlin Wall to stop anyone and even if they did, what would you estimate the manning and maintenace costs of such a barrier? I'm sure if Salmond was intending to extradite any people from Scotland, he would'nt be intending letting everyone who currently resides in Scotland vote on Scottish Independence! It is also on record that the Scottish Government are happy to have our present Royal Family as their head of state (whatever that means). House up for sale and resigned from the job. Returning to the Mecca and land of milk and honey while I still can and before they shut the border to stop all and sundry from trying to gain entry to the Promised Land. However, they are in for a nasty shock! Just wait until President Salmond extradites all the English, and other incomers, who have dared to tarnish our country by making it their home. God save the Queen, sorry will that still be allowed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitsjfc Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) Dear Deluded pitsjfc, There is bon chance of leaving the EU, whether the UK remains in its present form or if independence is achieved. Now as we are part of the European Union you might want to refresh your knowledge of the French Language before responding. The one thing you should fear, should you vote for armageddon, is what union will you be accepted by, or do you think Scotland is capable of trading on its own using a currency that has notvyet been established. It is an ante English thing and it always has been. Grow a pair and boot that cretin, Salmond, into touch, along with his puppet, Nicola Sturgeon. Double Act and not even funny, just sad. Half my family are English I am in no way anti English. By that logic I must be anti Irish and Welsh too. I am anti British tho. Why anyone would want to declare there British is beyond me. I would rather Salmond over Cameron anyday an am not a Salmond fan either and couldn't give a toss about the SNP. There's a referendum in 2017 for leaving the Eu with alot of backing from London and we won't have a say in it. Scotlands more than capable of trading on it's own, and we can use the pound, we did make it after all... Edited September 6, 2014 by pitsjfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy rhodes fancy watch Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 That's a shame. You have a lot to say from the safety of your current home. Oh and Blue Magic it clearly is an anti English thing. Brainwashed by the SNP. House up for sale and resigned from the job. Returning to the Mecca and land of milk and honey while I still can and before they shut the border to stop all and sundry from trying to gain entry to the Promised Land. However, they are in for a nasty shock! Just wait until President Salmond extradites all the English, and other incomers, who have dared to tarnish our country by making it their home. God save the Queen, sorry will that still be allowed? On your head be it. You say it is not a vote for Salmond but he will be the first President or Dictator when the day dawns. Just some of the nonsense . You are entitled to your opinion but please don't insult our intelligence with the shite you've been spouting. Bored with it all now . Wish the vote was tomorrow . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Half my family are English I am in no way anti English. By that logic I must be anti Irish and Welsh too. I am anti British tho. Why anyone would want to declare there British is beyond me. I would rather Salmond over Cameron anyday an am not a Salmond fan either and couldn't give a toss about the SNP. There's a referendum in 2017 for leaving the Eu with alot of backing from London and we won't have a say in it. Scotlands more than capable of trading on it's own, and we can use the pound, we did make it after all...what pound would that be then and what's it going to be worth? 50 pence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Just some of the nonsense . You are entitled to your opinion but please don't insult our intelligence with the shite you've been spouting. Bored with it all now . Wish the vote was tomorrow .You're beginning to sound like someone who says Islam is the religion of peace! When anyone has an opinion different to yours you don't like it and try to belittle them. Like Dunc said previously grow a pair and try debating sensibly. Incidentally how many yes banners around the country have you seen spoiled by graffiti? Not many if at all unlike the no one's. The no campaigners and voters have a little more dignity I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitsjfc Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 what pound would that be then and what's it going to be worth? 50 pence Even your beloved Darling said we can keep the pound. candalan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitsjfc Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 And what about the Clair ridge oil project in the Clair oil field that Cameron/Westminster and the media have tried to stay quiet about , until BP revealed there plans theyv already taken 100 million barrels of oil out the Clair oil field and have discovered the Clair ridge one the biggest oil fields discovered in the north Sea, it contains 640 million barrels of extractable oil and with this will be there first deployment of new enhanced oil recovery technology Losal which will add another 40 million barrels The fields expected to start up in 2016 with production going on for 4 years and increasing to 100 thousand barrels a day. Wonder why the tried to keep that secret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Even your beloved Darling said we can keep the pound.not my beloved I can't stand him. As I said what pound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saints Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Looking at the poll results it's time to form Saints For Yes ! It's a simple choice. Do you want to live in a country that values education, health and social justice or a country that wants to be involved in wars, houses nuclear weapons and introduces policies to target the poorest and most vulnerable in our society? Looking at the polls down south we can look forward to a Boris/Farage partnership at WM next year. The media bias is frightening but thankfully the grass roots campaign for Yes is doing a magnificient job which will secure independence. Not heard a convincing argument for No yet.. Good post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saints Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 And what about the Clair ridge oil project in the Clair oil field that Cameron/Westminster and the media have tried to stay quiet about , until BP revealed there plans theyv already taken 100 million barrels of oil out the Clair oil field and have discovered the Clair ridge one the biggest oil fields discovered in the north Sea, it contains 640 million barrels of extractable oil and with this will be there first deployment of new enhanced oil recovery technology Losal which will add another 40 million barrels The fields expected to start up in 2016 with production going on for 4 years and increasing to 100 thousand barrels a day. Wonder why the tried to keep that secret? Indeed.. IMO YES is a no brainer...oil or no oil! If anyone is in any doubt at all whether 'we could go it alone' needs to look no further than the way the opposition is doing all in its power to hold on to us?! Hope against hope us Scots don't bottle it. If folk think Scotland is hard done by now, it will be nothing compared to a post No vote! We have been warned. Three things I thought I wouldn't witness in my lifetime 1. Andy Murray winning Wimbledon 2. Saints winning a major cup 3. Scotland gaining independence.. Fingers crossed.... Pelosi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auld reekie saint Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Big yes for me. Claims on here that a vote for Yes is a vote for Salmond. Not true. You can vote for whoever you want in the 2016 Holyrood election. Churchill delivered a WW2 victory but lost the first general election after the war. If it is a Yes vote Salmond will undoubtedly have helped to win the day but you can vote for whoever you want in 2016. A decent Scottish Labour party would have a good chance of victory. Wendy Saints 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintdunc Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Dream on guys, dream on. You will wake up in the middle of a nightmare. Brainwashed or brain dead? Had some decent debates on social media where my view has been exactly the same but the response I received was mature, measured, constructive and well thought out. On here the majority of you are just abusive sheep or knuckle drugging neanderthals. See you all next time I am up to see Saints. I'll be the one wearing the Union Flag T-shirt which is the proper name for it by the way. Stay safe in the streets after the result because, as they say darn here, there will be trouble at t'mill! SanginSaint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest Saints Fan Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) You can't use the word abusive and the call others who don't have the same views as you brian dead in the same post. Edited September 6, 2014 by Honest Saints Fan Mike and pitsjfc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintdunc Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 A decent Scottish Labour party would have a good chance of victory. Doubt it. One party state mate. Vote for anyone you like but only one party will survive and it will be the party that goes cap in hand to ask for more. Who from? Who indeed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintdunc Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) You can't use the word abusive and the call others who don't have the same views as you brian dead in the same post. Read the thread HSF and see the abuse as it unfolds. Whats good for the goose etc. Brain dead admittedly is a bit strong. Edited September 6, 2014 by Saintdunc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzsaint Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Looks like the yes campaign are ahead by one point in a new yougov poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auld reekie saint Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Looks like the yes campaign are ahead by one point in a new yougov poll. Great news. I'm not one of lives optimists but even I'm starting to think we can do it. For the first time in my life you get a sense that people are getting excited by politcs. People are starting to think that they can make a difference. Denzil and Mike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzsaint Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-shock-yougov-poll-4177182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelsinkiSaintee Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 More than overdue that YouGov are showing these kind of figures, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland-Saint Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 (edited) "The polls saying YES making a surge" just hit mainstream US news tonight, rare for anything British, outside the royal family. Exciting stuff and personally I hope it comes off! .... 2014 the year Saints won the cup and we all got a tartan passport . P.S - If my brothers reading this, mums upset that you keep writing "yes" into the dust on her car... Edited September 7, 2014 by Texas-Saint Wendy Saints, Mike and pitsjfc 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denzil Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 (edited) A Labour government in Scotland will only get elected if the SNP fail to deliver and most on here will be voting Yes to independence so that cannot possibly be anything other than a vote for the SNP at the election when the day arrives. What would be the point of voting any other way? Why is it that no one seems to see that a Yes vote is a vote for Salmond. Before anyone starts telling me to "do one" again can we have a proper adult discussion about this or not? I fear the latter and and fwiw I have seen nothing yet to convince me that Scotland would be better off out of the Union. Ok, I'll bite... In their current guise, Labour won't get elected in a long time, if ever. Labour has alienated a lot of it's core voters over the recent past, and for them then to side with the Tories (and allowing themselves to be set up as some kind of human shield for Cameron) has pushed even more away. Being free of London control can only be a good thing for the Scottish Labour Party as distancing themselves from that fanny Miliband can't be a bad thing. I'd also reckon they're going to have to completely rediscover their ideological roots if they're to make a comeback up here. If Radical had the structure in place to go down the route of fielding candidates however, Labour could be on a sticky wicket. RIC has done a hell of a lot of impressive work in the schemes during the referendum, and are perfectly placed to pick up disaffected Labour voters should they be in a position to stand. Love them or loathe them, the SNP have a pretty good record of delivering even as a minority administration and that went a long way to securing the outright majority in 2011. They were also helped by an utterly God-awful negative Labour campaign and Lib-Dems who had comitted the cardinal sin of hopping into bed with the Toxic Tories down south. Whether the SNP's dominance continues in the future, who knows, I'm not Mystic Meg, but I'd envisage the first Scottish Parliament post-indy being more similar to the "rainbow" first Parliament post-devolution. If you're not voting to "punish" a Westminster party, there's more likelihood of you voting for who you really want to. In this regard, Labour will have 2 years to get their shit together, otherwise, if Radical are able to stand and take up the baton of the left, Labour are finished in my opinion. The Tories of course are completely toxic, but total separation from London couldn't be anything other than beneficial for them. The big winners post-indy could be the Greens, especially on the regional vote, but whether the SSP can stop in-fighting long enough to do anything is debatable. Who knows whatever other parties might emerge in an independent Scottish Parliament, but the population is politicised like never before, and accepting the status quo without question is gone for good. Is a Yes vote a vote for Salmond? That depends who you ask. Naws will say it is, because we're all "nationalists" in their eyes, despite the SNP only having a membership of about 25,000 or so. That doesn't matter; we're all Nats or 'cybernats'. Me? I wouldn't consider myself a natural SNP voter although I have voted for them both tactically and through choice on different occasions. Yes the SNP probably will win again in 2016, but that's primarilly down to their relative strength and the weakness of the rest. Their real test will come in 2021. Edited September 7, 2014 by Denzil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOODLUM65 Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Interesting read where only two of six SNP members bothered to turn up for a key vote against the "Bedroom Tax". In November last year Perth MP Pete Wishart taunted Labour on twitter after Ten of their MP's failed to show up for an anti "Bedroom Tax" vote. Guess who one of the four SNP members was who didn't turn up this time for a crucial vote? Stand up Mr. Pete Wishart. Does this mean he has had a change of mind since November, or just couldn't be arsed? Hypocrisy of the highest order. Who was it that said never trust a politician? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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