Disabled Parking at McDiarmid

[Ginger Bakers rebel army]

Hi Andrew just another example of lack of communication from Saints , it happens over and over again.

Parking should continue to be free, that's my opinion, it's free at Parkhead so why not McD where there is a lot more on site space.

This penny pinching sounds like the old browner story of threatening to sack one of his joiners for putting the nails in too close to each other.

We will never go back to the old days of pitchside parking but charging is in my opinion completely unnecessary. 

 

[Abernethy Saint]

Andrew, I am a disabled fan of Saints. My disability cost me my career and then my job. 

Would you please represent my view to Saints that disabled parking should be free? 

Thank you.

 

[andrew]

 

Hi Andrew just another example of lack of communication from Saints , it happens over and over again.

Parking should continue to be free, that's my opinion, it's free at Parkhead so why not McD where there is a lot more on site space.

This penny pinching sounds like the old browner story of threatening to sack one of his joiners for putting the nails in too close to each other.

We will never go back to the old days of pitchside parking but charging is in my opinion completely unnecessary. 

 

We could have posted details but tend to keep information to our Facebook group. Previous contact with general support didn't indicate a great deal of interest, so we've kept communication within the group.

[andrew]

 

Andrew, I am a disabled fan of Saints. My disability cost me my career and then my job. 

Would you please represent my view to Saints that disabled parking should be free? 

Thank you.

 

Illness cost me my career and business. I'm going to see if I can get free parking for myself first. I'll ask for you after.

[saintj]

This is pretty grim stuff. Poor show from Saints here.

[Tranmere Saintee]

 

We could have posted details but tend to keep information to our Facebook group. Previous contact with general support didn't indicate a great deal of interest, so we've kept communication within the group.

Are all the disabled users at McD members of this Facebook page and was it ever advertised to attract people with an interest?

[andrew]

 

Are all the disabled users at McD members of this Facebook page and was it ever advertised to attract people with an interest?

Some are, some aren't. We also have an email list and I posted on here a few times when we started a few years back. I've also been on hospital radio and the club have tried to let people with disabilities know about the group. I've posted on Saints' Facebook and Twitter and shall do so again shortly. Our Facebook page is linked to on the club's website.

What interests me here is that those making the most noise will do so for a short time - perhaps until the next matter to complain about arises. We will still be working away and raising matters with the club, building positive relationships where we can and linking with the national group.

[MySpazz]

 

Some are, some aren't. We also have an email list and I posted on here a few times when we started a few years back. I've also been on hospital radio and the club have tried to let people with disabilities know about the group. I've posted on Saints' Facebook and Twitter and shall do so again shortly. Our Facebook page is linked to on the club's website.

What interests me here is that those making the most noise will do so for a short time - perhaps until the next matter to complain about arises. We will still be working away and raising matters with the club, building positive relationships where we can and linking with the national group.

 

You sound like you are interested in furthering your group's profile, while forgetting that you are part of a wider club and regardless of your own definition of able or not able, disabled or whatever, kinda forget that others will and do have opinions.

Not every disabled saints fan is or wants to be a member of your group. ....but  "none of you joined our group, and none of you are disabled, and you are all complainers...........so how could you possibly know anything.....".

Well pal, bottom line is: the decision is embarrassing and based on what I've read less than one in 10 people on this forum, Twitter or Facebook pages (St Johnstone banter for instance) support the club with this move.

 

[Guest ScottMann]

 

Very few of the posts in this topic come from people who know what they are talking about or have experience of disabled fans and parking. Many of them are made in complete ignorance of the subject and have moved straight to criticism of the club.

The club are losing a significant amount of parking spaces and so parking will be more limited than before. Everyone will now pay, whether disabled or not. The norm across Europe is one ticket price (normally full price for the category of fan a disabled person meets the criteria for) which usually covers entry for them and their personal assistant (the word 'carer' is not used). Parking is a separate matter. Disabled people do not seek special treatment, simply to be treated the same as everyone else (where this is possible, and it isn't always). Anything being free is not the point.

The 30 minutes has been introduced because people were reserving parking spaces and not using them, thus denying others a chance to park. Spaces have been checked at half time and regularly found to be empty.

I am involved with the St Johnstone Disabled Supporters Association and we have been very pleased with our dealings with the club. The appointment of Beverley as Supporters Liaison Officer has helped greatly in furthering our cause and in getting our points to the right place in order to start working towards a mutually satisfactory resolution. If there are any complaints or criticism to be made we will usually be the first to raise the matter directly with the club. If you experience any issues relating to disabled access (home or away) please contact us or Beverley.

If you have no dealings, experience or knowledge of disabled access then it is unlikely that you are going to be able to make a positive contribution to any discussion, as evidenced above. I am happy to engage in any reasonable conversation about these or any other issues relating to disabled access at St Johnstone either publicly here or by private message

What an attitude, one that's all too prevalent these days. 'I'm right, ok. Any criticism will be shut down immediately by insulting those with an alternative view' 

Obviously being party to introducing the charge you will defend your disgraceful actions but the ignorant one here is you, both with your attitude and knowledge of the circumstances of who is posting.

There were options available to introducing a charge. If people were abusing the previous system then they should have been stopped from booking in advance. The club would have the details of those booking and not turning up so could easily deal with them. 

An option of a voluntary payment of £50 could have been chosen rather than a blanket charge for all...hey, there's an idea. How about a £5 tax on people using a tartan travelling rug to keep warm at games? 

Personal Assistants? Give me strength. That says it all.

Time to wind your neck in, accept that this decision looks bad and was always going to attract criticism and maybe go an a PR re-education course. Something from your post tells me this action would appeal to you.

[Center Half]

whilst I commented on the changed as I have said the cost is not in question it is the 30min/ 1 hour before a game your space will be given up?.  Also I would like to know how anyone can say who is parked and  who is not in the designated area, numbers are now non visible and the surface is now so poor repainting is probably out of the question. this results in cars not being parked as close as should be and a space that may look empty is possibly not enough space for a vehicle to park,      

[Abernethy Saint]

Those of us politely disagreeing with the club's horrible new policy are now being characterised on Saints Banter (FB) as " rude and ridiculous" by He Who Must Be Obeyed.

Andrew, I asked you, as a disabled Saints fan, to represent my view to the club that this new policy is terrible. Why won't you do this? Isn't that what you're there for?

[templeofsaints]

Re the 30 minutes rule - that was one of the parking permit terms and conditions 10-15 years ago. Not sure how much it was enforced but its possible the club are restating the "fine print".

[Center Half]

Re the 30 minutes rule - that was one of the parking permit terms and conditions 10-15 years ago. Not sure how much it was enforced but its possible the club are restating the "fine print".

Good point and has been mentioned previously the car park 95% has loads of spaces, The allocated disabled parking at the Ormond End of the Astro turf is where he has parked for years, the part nearest the main stand turnstiles is always pretty full as the parking/police put the "guests of the club" etc all in there too.

Anyway as I say he will just be in 1 hour early to make sure he gets his space I suppose.

         

 

[ejksjfc]

I have already commented on this thread saying it is justifiable for the club to charge for disabled parking spaces, and I stand by that comment even in the light of some well thought out and put forward arguments to the contrary. I tried on the whole to ignore the less well thought out comments.

As regards the 30 minutes rule, I do however think the club are wrong there. Initially I wasn't that bothered as very seldom do I arrive at the game as late as it would affect me but I can fully understand why people would be upset. It does seem wrong to me to take two payments for one product.

[andrew]

 

Those of us politely disagreeing with the club's horrible new policy are now being characterised on Saints Banter (FB) as " rude and ridiculous" by He Who Must Be Obeyed.

Andrew, I asked you, as a disabled Saints fan, to represent my view to the club that this new policy is terrible. Why won't you do this? Isn't that what you're there for?

Hardly politely disagreeing in some cases. Some of it was rude and ridiculous in terms of its language and content. Obviously not all.

I am very unlikely to be someone who must be obeyed.

If you would let me know your name, maybe send me a PM, then I will pass on your views. At present I have no idea who you are or whether you are making a genuine point or making mischief - the latter does happen on here at times

Again I would invite you to attend one of our meetings if you can.

[Cagey]

1. Not sure I know why disabled should get free parking.

2. Re having to park at least 30 mins before game. If I was paying 50 quid for a space I would expect to be able to leave it empty all season if I wanted to as I had paid for it.

[sixties saintee]

 

Hardly politely disagreeing in some cases. Some of it was rude and ridiculous in terms of its language and content. Obviously not all.

I am very unlikely to be someone who must be obeyed.

If you would let me know your name, maybe send me a PM, then I will pass on your views. At present I have no idea who you are or whether you are making a genuine point or making mischief - the latter does happen on here at times

Again I would invite you to attend one of our meetings if you can.

I would say the latter

[andrew]

 

 

You sound like you are interested in furthering your group's profile, while forgetting that you are part of a wider club and regardless of your own definition of able or not able, disabled or whatever, kinda forget that others will and do have opinions.

Not every disabled saints fan is or wants to be a member of your group. ....but  "none of you joined our group, and none of you are disabled, and you are all complainers...........so how could you possibly know anything.....".

Well pal, bottom line is: the decision is embarrassing and based on what I've read less than one in 10 people on this forum, Twitter or Facebook pages (St Johnstone banter for instance) support the club with this move.

 

First point is not one I could argue with. The only thing I'd say is that if the group is successful enough it will cease to be. The important thing is not the group itself, but dealing with a vast array of issues and obstacles to football being accessible in the way that it ought.

Second point first part - anyone would be welcome, we've done a lot of good work and had many interesting guests along. The second part isn't a direct quote and doesn't represent what I said.

Third point is also one I could not argue with as it represents the stated views. I don't know whether the club will review its position and/or amend it.

I have not expressed my own opinion on the decision.

[Abernethy Saint]

I give up. This guy doesn't want to listen. 

[andrew]

 

What an attitude, one that's all too prevalent these days. 'I'm right, ok. Any criticism will be shut down immediately by insulting those with an alternative view' 

Obviously being party to introducing the charge you will defend your disgraceful actions but the ignorant one here is you, both with your attitude and knowledge of the circumstances of who is posting.

There were options available to introducing a charge. If people were abusing the previous system then they should have been stopped from booking in advance. The club would have the details of those booking and not turning up so could easily deal with them. 

An option of a voluntary payment of £50 could have been chosen rather than a blanket charge for all...hey, there's an idea. How about a £5 tax on people using a tartan travelling rug to keep warm at games? 

Personal Assistants? Give me strength. That says it all.

Time to wind your neck in, accept that this decision looks bad and was always going to attract criticism and maybe go an a PR re-education course. Something from your post tells me this action would appeal to you.

Hi Scott. I am not always right. Sometimes I might be, sometimes not. I have criticised the club often, but I was referring initially to the more extreme views which I didn't feel were very helpful. By all means state your opinion, but not in a confrontational way or by calling for people's jobs - none of those type of comments make any kind of positive contribution.

In what way was I party to introducing the charge? Which disgraceful actions will I be defending?

You make some worthwhile points about the charges and some of the alternatives.

You seem to dislike the term personal assistant. This is simply the terminology adopted by CAFE (Centre for Access to Football in Europe), the SDSA (The Scottish Disabled Supporters Association) and various other groups not related to football. It is merely a phrase, although I do know that many people with disabilities dislike the word 'carer'.

I'd imagine that whatever decision is made is likely to attract criticism, and some more than others. Thankfully I don't make any decisions and have no need for any PR re-education course - I didn't ever do one to begin with that I might require re-education

It remains the case that I think we can achieve far more by being positive, non-confrontational and by avoiding personal abuse or name calling. I still maintain that those who know best about disability are those who live with it or who are involved through family members, work or other type of support. It doesn't mean that others cannot have a view or even that their view may not be valid.

We've had some good conversations before and I'd hope that we can do so in future if there's anything where we find ourselves in contact on.

Edited June 26, 2017 by andrew

[akuram]

Surely if you have a parking ticket with a number for a bay you have paid for then that space is yours.

If for some reason you cannot get there till half-time then your space should be empty and waiting for you.

Is this unreasonable?

This would also apply to any disabled spaces.

[Ginger Bakers rebel army]

What we have here! 

[Pat McGroin]

Regarding the space, it should work like a season ticket for games. Your seat is guaranteed whether in use or not because it has already been paid for. The club shouldn't be able to sell the same product twice. 

[mainstand]

 

Hi Scott. I am not always right. Sometimes I might be, sometimes not. I have criticised the club often, but I was referring initially to the more extreme views which I didn't feel were very helpful. By all means state your opinion, but not in a confrontational way or by calling for people's jobs - none of those type of comments make any kind of positive contribution.

In what way was I party to introducing the charge? Which disgraceful actions will I be defending?

You make some worthwhile points about the charges and some of the alternatives.

You seem to dislike the term personal assistant. This is simply the terminology adopted by CAFE (Centre for Access to Football in Europe), the SDSA (The Scottish Disabled Supporters Association) and various other groups not related to football. It is merely a phrase, although I do know that many people with disabilities dislike the word 'carer'.

I'd imagine that whatever decision is made is likely to attract criticism, and some more than others. Thankfully I don't make any decisions and have no need for any PR re-education course - I didn't ever do one to begin with that I might require re-education

It remains the case that I think we can achieve far more by being positive, non-confrontational and by avoiding personal abuse or name calling. I still maintain that those who know best about disability are those who live with it or who are involved through family members, work or other type of support. It doesn't mean that others cannot have a view or even that their view may not be valid.

We've had some good conversations before and I'd hope that we can do so in future if there's anything where we find ourselves in contact on.

Andrew I started this topic not to have a go at you and others such as Bev that are doing a good job. The reason for the post was simply to raise awareness of the change and to seek views.

I had a long chat with Bev on Friday who advised us of the reason behind the changes and That your association was involved in discussions.

Sadly as sometimes happens things have grown arms and legs and comments made. My own personal opinion is that disabled parking should be free and that a club like saints should not be one of the first that charges disabled fans for parking. You may know this but are other clubs also going to start charging?? I doubt it. 

I should add that it is not the money that i or my dad object to. FWIW he already pays 20 pound for the privilege of parking in alloa where parking is free. 

Keep up the good work with the association but please remember that folk having different views is not a criticism of you but simply folk expressing their views.

[andrew]

 

Andrew I started this topic not to have a go at you and others such as Bev that are doing a good job. The reason for the post was simply to raise awareness of the change and to seek views.

I had a long chat with Bev on Friday who advised us of the reason behind the changes and That your association was involved in discussions.

Sadly as sometimes happens things have grown arms and legs and comments made. My own personal opinion is that disabled parking should be free and that a club like saints should not be one of the first that charges disabled fans for parking. You may know this but are other clubs also going to start charging?? I doubt it. 

I should add that it is not the money that i or my dad object to. FWIW he already pays 20 pound for the privilege of parking in alloa where parking is free. 

Keep up the good work with the association but please remember that folk having different views is not a criticism of you but simply folk expressing their views.

Thankyou. The only thing I'd say is that I was not involved in discussions. We were advised of the changes. Unless others were consulted separately/privately or I missed it?

I don't know of any clubs that do charge for parking at this point in time. Not all clubs have their own car parks. It may be that the club will review this decision, but they may not.

Folk having different views is a fact of life, but what matters to me is how it's expressed. I would still like to be able to welcome anyone who'd like to attend one of our meetings. I have no doubt whatsoever that face to face we'd get on much better than on here.