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St Mikey

Lack of Ambition or Direction

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I need to laugh hearing about young English  players being better than Scottish. The only difference is size, technically we are just as good. It's embarrassing that we are looking South than within.

They've just won the U19 World Cup and reached the Semis in U21s. Of course they're better. They are consistently producing better quality players than we are up here thanks to the academy system. I reckon that England u21 team would beat the full Scotland side.

There's nothing embarrassing about it. They are all products of huge sums of money that has been invested thanks to Sky. 

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They've just won the U19 World Cup and reached the Semis in U21s. Of course they're better. They are consistently producing better quality players than we are up here thanks to the academy system. I reckon that England u21 team would beat the full Scotland side.

There's nothing embarrassing about it. They are all products of huge sums of money that has been invested thanks to Sky. 

They also have a vastly bigger pool to select from. 

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Yeah, but signing someone whose just been released by Blackburn and has only every played in non-league football is hardly signing Englands elite. 

I wasn't talking about him. He's clearly a development player. 

I'm talking about the guys kicking around the Premier League clubs at 19/20 and not getting a game. 

Most seem to be going to the Championship and League 1 nowadays unfortunately. 

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I wasn't talking about him. He's clearly a development player. 

I'm talking about the guys kicking around the Premier League clubs at 19/20 and not getting a game. 

Most seem to be going to the Championship and League 1 nowadays unfortunately. 

Ah, sorry. 

I've often wondered if it's a case of other English teams being able to pay a higher percentage of their wage, or whether the parent club simply don't rate this league for development purposes. I could easily see us asking West Ham or something about loanees and them only offering us a shite 16yo as that's all they think of us. 

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As your comment was linked to my post I would like to reply that nowhere in my post have I said that English players are better than Scottish ones, nor have I questioned their size or ability.

In fact Hendrie should be eligible to play for Scotland if he was ever considered.

You are better qualified than me regarding players "within", however I am fully aware that Saints have young talent on their books and take a keen interest in their progress.

 

 

I was supporting your comment about not writing off the young ones. It looks like the age for young players to come into the first team are 21/22 so I suppose our youths "within" have 5 years of development left. However we have a number of UK clubs looking at our youths so we need to make sure they are motivated to stay. 

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We look so close to home.  We get ok crowds compared to many European teams that we face at Europa stages. The issue is money isn't being spent correctly and an old school approach held by people in the game and supporters.  It's a business with an old mind set just getting by in modern times.

Scottish game is tactically and technically inept due to the small pond we have.  Why can we not grab some random Scandinavian or Baltic based player.  At least the fundamental ability will be good if not better.

Unless you are Scottish, Scottish football can't be appealing?  It's pretty average. Poor TV deal. Poor refs. Poor weather. Poor clubs living on or below the breadline with signings few and far between better than already present.  I used to be pleased we resigned players, aka new signings for the next campaign but do realise the eneromus task we have to get fresh/new faces signed up.  Then you have a former player blasting off about wage reductions.... If you were a player...   In fact I'm glad I'm not a player what a tough short career.  

 

For all this, it's why I keep coming back.  Live Saints!

Edited by Dave H
.

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Ah, sorry. 

I've often wondered if it's a case of other English teams being able to pay a higher percentage of their wage, or whether the parent club simply don't rate this league for development purposes. I could easily see us asking West Ham or something about loanees and them only offering us a shite 16yo as that's all they think of us. 

Could be a combination of the above but also a combination of distance and using connections. 

It might be easier for a 19 year old in London/Birmingham/Manchester to live at home and travel 100 miles to an English club rather than relocating up here. 

St Mirren done quite well with Newcastle loanees a few years back.

Maybe Tommy just doesn't like the short term aspect of loan players as he definitely has the connections. You have more control over someone contracted to the club and they have more invested also. 

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We are continually quoted in the media we are a well run club with a good base as a club etc

is this the best it gets for us? We are going through a great period of achievement over the last 6 seasons especially. 

However with a chairman saying we don't deserve it as supporters due to dwindling attendance numbers ultimately hits the manager in the pocket for his budget. 

Where do we go now? It's being said we have no money for top quality signings or even more players that will improve the starting XI.

The clubs miserly attitude to not spending money or seeking a great signing is underwhelming.

We sign loads of younger players who continually fail to make the cut, with the exception of a few.

Do we now run the risk of having a lack of ambition or a lack of direction of where the club is going?

 

You Sir, don't deserve to be a St Johnstone fan. Your lack of respect for the club and the people who run it is glaring.

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We are continually quoted in the media we are a well run club with a good base as a club etc

is this the best it gets for us? We are going through a great period of achievement over the last 6 seasons especially. 

However with a chairman saying we don't deserve it as supporters due to dwindling attendance numbers ultimately hits the manager in the pocket for his budget. 

Where do we go now? It's being said we have no money for top quality signings or even more players that will improve the starting XI.

The clubs miserly attitude to not spending money or seeking a great signing is underwhelming.

We sign loads of younger players who continually fail to make the cut, with the exception of a few.

Do we now run the risk of having a lack of ambition or a lack of direction of where the club is going?

 

Chief are you the original mcdairmid moaner ?

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We are continually quoted in the media we are a well run club with a good base as a club etc

is this the best it gets for us? We are going through a great period of achievement over the last 6 seasons especially. 

However with a chairman saying we don't deserve it as supporters due to dwindling attendance numbers ultimately hits the manager in the pocket for his budget. 

Where do we go now? It's being said we have no money for top quality signings or even more players that will improve the starting XI.

The clubs miserly attitude to not spending money or seeking a great signing is underwhelming.

We sign loads of younger players who continually fail to make the cut, with the exception of a few.

Do we now run the risk of having a lack of ambition or a lack of direction of where the club is going?

 

Its quite simple.

We don't spend money because we don't have it. The days of us signing players for a decent fee are gone. Accept it.

The problem isn't seeking a major signing, the problem is the major signings don't want to come to Perth. This myth that playing for a top 6 club is a massive pull for players, it isnt!

The extra £ elsewhere is a bigger pull. 

Also the point about signing a lot of younger players and only few making the grade, thats the same all across the world. Only a few make the grade, its not unusual!

Where do we go now? What do you actually expect, this is the real world, not a computer game. We aren't going to win the League nor compete for it. This is good as its going to get. The aambition is to maintain it, that isn't a lack of ambition. 

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I was supporting your comment about not writing off the young ones. It looks like the age for young players to come into the first team are 21/22 so I suppose our youths "within" have 5 years of development left. However we have a number of UK clubs looking at our youths so we need to make sure they are motivated to stay. 

Ah, sorry I thought you were inferring the opposite.:laugh:

Edited by HOODLUM65

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Not sure how much more "ambitious" anyone can expect a club or our size, fanbase and income to realistically be. What we've achieved in this era has been outstanding and if we can find a way to tread water and maintain that without slipping backwards then that would arguably be the biggest achievement of all.

On the subject of loan deals - I've never been a massive fan of those but it does disappoint me a little that we haven't done more to exploit our friendly relationship with Eses. If we could take a young striker from them for a year's worth of experience then that could potentially be a way of finding someone a bit different.

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I think we have to accept that these are halcyon days for our club. Without a drastic change in circumstances, an additional 2-3k supporters making their way through the turnstiles we simply cannot sustain any kind of investment. Bottom line is spending cannot outstrip revenue and the club is structured this way. Not a popular opinion I will admit, but I'd rather see use solvent than in the Premiership.

I have a hope that the Bertha Park development will be the seedbed for a new generation of Saints supports, but that's a possible long term answer to a very immediate need.

 

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A bit in the Record that playing Gilchrist brought the average of the team down to 28/29.

It also states at his age he should have played about 150 games rather than 50 on loan.

This time of the season age may have contributed to lack of pace & staying power.

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A bit in the Record that playing Gilchrist brought the average of the team down to 28/29.

It also states at his age he should have played about 150 games rather than 50 on loan.

This time of the season age may have contributed to lack of pace & staying power.

Most players of his age haven't had the amount of injuries he has had.

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A bit in the Record that playing Gilchrist brought the average of the team down to 28/29.

It also states at his age he should have played about 150 games rather than 50 on loan.

This time of the season age may have contributed to lack of pace & staying power.

Shows how much the Retard f****** know.

 

 

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A bit in the Record that playing Gilchrist brought the average of the team down to 28/29.

It also states at his age he should have played about 150 games rather than 50 on loan.

This time of the season age may have contributed to lack of pace & staying power.

I suspect Parks may have been the reporter on that one, he has been writing most of the articles on Saints in recent days and stating the same in each one.

He said that one player brought the average age to 28, but not sure where he gets the 29 from for the average age of last year. 

zander 25, alston 25, Paton 30, Joe 25,Easton 29, Cummins 30, Mclean 34, Liam 31, Gilchrist 22, Foster 31, Spoony 27 308 years  average 28 add in subs 81 drops to 27.5 BUt if you exclude MacLean it drops to 27.4 or him and midge it drops to just lower than 26.

At this time of the year the players that are 34 should be just as fit as the younger members of the squad, surely the age will only come as a factor after a long hard season.

Thursdays main factor was without doubt match sharpness, play that game again in 4 weeks and you would get a totally different result IMO.

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To be fair, I can see what the original post is getting at. No one is saying that we should go out and spend £500k on a star player, but given the money we have in the bank and prize money etc, I don't think it is realistic to maybe spend a small fee. Look at Muzz and Cuptie for example, a fantastic £50k spent.

Clark, Kane and May aside, lets be honest, we haven't brought through good enough youngsters.

If we are going down the route of signing development players, then giving them 1 year deals and sending them on loan is no use. Otherwise, we should pay nominal fees for some decent talent who are getting game time and we can further develop.

For me, (and my one and only criticism of Tommy) is that we leave it too late to blood youngsters. Clark is just breaking through and is 25, Thompson etc all early 20's. Look across Europe and players will have 100-150 games by 22.

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Worth noting that Kerr has around 80 appearances at 20.

I think we use the loan market well. Clark, Kane and May were developed perfectly, and we're put into the first team when they were ready. I think Thomson was left a bit late and it shows. Gilchrists development was hindered massively by injuries. 

Interested to see what becomes of the likes of Comrie. 

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For me, (and my one and only criticism of Tommy) is that we leave it too late to blood youngsters. Clark is just breaking through and is 25, Thompson etc all early 20's. Look across Europe and players will have 100-150 games by 22.

I think that if Tommy was genuinely convinced that these young players were good enough, he'd give them a game earlier. The fact that he doesn't probably tells us all we need to know.

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