Colt sides

[RandomGuy]

Celtic and Rangers are currently working their way around clubs in League Two, promising them £15k a year in ticket money if they admit the two clubs youth sides into League Two. They'd be immune from relegation but points gained, or lost, in their matches wound still determine the fates of other clubs. 

This is being disguised as being for "the benefit of the national team and youth development", as both clubs claim they have the most talented youngsters but they get held back by a lack of senior football, and the only solution that can think of is to destroy the lower leagues. 

Our club will vote on the issue at some stage, and if more than one top flight Club votes against it, the plans will be scrapped. 

Here's the proposal - Colt-teams-Jan-18.pdf

If that doesn't work you can download it from Elgins website - http://www.elgincity.net/?p=7847

Edited January 26, 2018 by RandomGuy

[Radford 72]

Glad that someone has raised this issue and it's worth reading the links above. I'd hope all Saints fans are against these horrendous proposals and if so, it's important that even through polls like this on a messageboard that the club are left in no doubt about the opposition from the supporters.

[rik2304]

Emphatically no.

[blueheaven]

I'd hope as many Saints fans as possible will vote 'No' on this poll, because the club and media will see that.

There's just so much that's wrong with this. It's only in the interests of two clubs (one of which has only recently been promoted from the lower leagues itself) and it needs to be stopped. And if it is truly "for the benefit of youth development", why do only two clubs get to enjoy that benefit?

Here's a good interview with Jim McInally (Peterhead manager) about it: https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/sport/football/scottish-football/peterhead-boss-slams-colts-idea-from-old-firm-clubs-he-says-are-out-to-bully-way-in/

 

[HOODLUM65]

Trying to buy their way to success again.

Don't they have enough advantages already with Regan and Dungcaster siding with them and match officials awarding them contentious penalties etc. 

If they didn't sign so many non Scottish players' in the first instance, their youth would get a chance, thus benefiting the National team.

I voted Nnnnnnooooo.!

[rickardo]

It’s a NO brainier , got enough of that shit already in the premier without it spreading down the leagues.

[Guest ScottMann]

That it's got this far is very concerning.

[Cagey]

Project brave would be to get rid of that useless Chunt Regan.

[Indicator]

There was already a thread running in football chat on this subject (from way back in 2013)

I bump started that thread again yesterday at around 1930 with a fairly lengthy post. Somewhat peeved that the thread has now been locked.

Can the mods at least move my opening post to this thread.

Or I can just copy and paste Thanks.

[garydavidson]

4 minutes ago, Indicator said:

This old chestnut has surfaced again.

The SFA/SPFL have apparently circulated documents proposing that Celtic and 'ahem' angers should be allowed to field 'Colt' teams in league two.

Although a large number of the Celtic support profess to no longer recognising the term 'Old Firm' it appears that their club is quite willing to jump into bed with the club currently playing out of Ibrox in order to facilitate this scheme.

Thankfully there appears to be growing opposition from concerned clubs who don't seem to be able to identify any benefit to themselves in agreeing to participate in the scheme. At the same time recognising the 'leg up' that it will give in providing game time to the overinflated playing staff of both the big (back to the status quo) two Glasgow clubs.

So far it appears that Annan, Stirling Albion, Airdrie and Albion Rovers have intimated their rejection of the scheme.

Peterhead manager Jim McInally seems particularly scathing of the whole concept.

Press quotes include:
‘Peterhead manager Jim McInally has revealed Celtic’s head of youth could not list a single benefit for League Two clubs if Old Firm colt teams join the league.’

‘McInally said: “In my opinion the experiment of under-20 sides in the Challenge Cup has failed miserably both in terms of crowds and results. That should be stopped and the idea of colt teams in the league should be kicked out as well. “It is not up to the likes of Peterhead to help develop players en masse for Celtic, Rangers or other clubs. That is their responsibility. It is not Peterhead’s issue that other clubs find themselves saturated with players and they are trying to find something meaningful to do with them.”’

‘As much as people support Celtic and Rangers, the people who support Peterhead, Montrose, Clyde, Elgin and others support their team every bit as much and every bit as passionately as Celtic and Rangers supporters support their team.
‘It really annoys me that Scottish football can’t see through this – for me this should have been blown out without even getting this far.’

 

[yahoorsir]

Rangers 'talented' youngsters are so good they have just been pumped by Saints Under 20's. The bigot brothers can GTF with this proposal. Why should they gain to the  detriment of every other senior side in Scotland.

If Saints will be asked to vote on this at some point, should we not in fact take it a stage further and make the Club aware of our views?

 

[Indicator]

Thanks 'gd'.

To add:

In my humble opinion what Mr McInally is saying, and a brave man for it, is that he is fed up with the 'OF' demographic (aren't we all) which is constantly attached to anything to do with Scottish football - like a leaden weight dragging it back to the same archiac sectarian point in history.

The club that used to constitute one half of the OF is still being picked over on the mortuary slab by BDO. (The Liquidators)  

[blueheaven]

1 hour ago, Indicator said:

There was already a thread running in football chat on this subject (from way back in 2013)

I bump started that thread again yesterday at around 1930 with a fairly lengthy post. Somewhat peeved that the thread has now been locked.

Can the mods at least move my opening post to this thread.

Or I can just copy and paste Thanks.

Apologies - it made sense not to have two similar threads running so I locked the one that would be less prominent. No slight intended against those who'd contributed to the other thread.

[Indicator]

No Probs BH.

[Cagey]

I am fed up with Regan & Dungcaster bending over to be rodgered by the OF who they think ARE Scottish football. Scottish football & the Scotland team will only improve when the OF & those two piss off.

[541ntees]

what if sevco go into admin again an start again in div2 ? 4matches against their colt team would guarantee them 12 points. i know in spain they are not  allowed to play in the same league but how can you guarantee that? 

[Debate not slag off]

7 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I'd hope as many Saints fans as possible will vote 'No' on this poll, because the club and media will see that.

There's just so much that's wrong with this. It's only in the interests of two clubs (one of which has only recently been promoted from the lower leagues itself) and it needs to be stopped. And if it is truly "for the benefit of youth development", why do only two clubs get to enjoy that benefit?

Here's a good interview with Jim McInally (Peterhead manager) about it: https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/sport/football/scottish-football/peterhead-boss-slams-colts-idea-from-old-firm-clubs-he-says-are-out-to-bully-way-in/

 

aberdeen and hibs have expressed an interest as well but seeing how it works for the old firm first ,and if other clubs could do it i wish they would ,it might work it might not but least they are trying something different for a change ,plus its up to the other clubs to vote it in if they do not  want it then it wont happen ,fans clubs media all cry out for change and when it does fans ,clubs and media all moan about it ,if it was two other teams trying to do this and not the old firm would everyone still moan as much ,it would be nice to see someone say apart from me ,well lets see if it works then great if not we can laugh like hell and blame awbody else 

[Shibbydoo]

9 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Celtic and Rangers are currently working their way around clubs in League Two, promising them £15k a year in ticket money if they admit the two clubs youth sides into League Two. They'd be immune from relegation but points gained, or lost, in their matches wound still determine the fates of other clubs. 

This is being disguised as being for "the benefit of the national team and youth development", as both clubs claim they have the most talented youngsters but they get held back by a lack of senior football, and the only solution that can think of is to destroy the lower leagues. 

Our club will vote on the issue at some stage, and if more than one top flight Club votes against it, the plans will be scrapped. 

Here's the proposal - Colt-teams-Jan-18.pdf

If that doesn't work you can download it from Elgins website - http://www.elgincity.net/?p=7847

Why would they be immune from relegation? 

That's just bullshit - what if they finish 9th and 10th? 8th goes into playoff or top Highland/Lowland team misses out on chance to get into the League? 

What a crock of stinking OF bollocks. I feel a bit sick even typing this. 

If they are so good why not join the Lowland League and earn the right same as others team have to. 

Horrible, horrible proposal. It must not happen. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Shibbydoo

[RandomGuy]

12 minutes ago, Shibbydoo said:

Why would they be immune from relegation? 

That's just bullshit - what if they finish 9th and 10th? 8th goes into playoff or top Highland/Lowland team misses out on chance to get into the League? 

What a crock of stinking OF bollocks. I feel a bit sick even typing this. 

If they are so good why not join the Lowland League and earn the right same as others team have to. 

Horrible, horrible proposal. It must not happen. 

Theyd also be immune from promotion, for now. Which means a team finishing in sixth could end up promoted. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by RandomGuy

[TheYellowBox]

Absolute farce. Benefits no one other than Rangers and Celtic. Forcing sides to have a totally messed up league where some teams can get promoted and others not too makes a total joke of the whole league. The challenge cup shows that the crowds are just not there.

[blueheaven]

1 hour ago, sevcozombie2 said:

aberdeen and hibs have expressed an interest as well but seeing how it works for the old firm first ,and if other clubs could do it i wish they would ,it might work it might not but least they are trying something different for a change ,plus its up to the other clubs to vote it in if they do not  want it then it wont happen ,fans clubs media all cry out for change and when it does fans ,clubs and media all moan about it ,if it was two other teams trying to do this and not the old firm would everyone still moan as much ,it would be nice to see someone say apart from me ,well lets see if it works then great if not we can laugh like hell and blame awbody else 

Sorry but I don't follow that logic. Wanting change is not the same thing as wanting *any* change. I'm not in favour of change for change's sake and I can't see why anyone would be. There needs to be strong positive reasoning behind a major change like this, and if that reasoning doesn't exist then we're dead right to speak out against it.

If it was two other clubs trying to do this then perhaps you're right and there might be less of an outcry, but let's face it - it's never the other clubs. It's always the Old Firm, working together just like before, always pretending to be enemies while at the same time planning stuff like this together because they know they go hand in hand. Here's a change I'd be firmly in favour of - close down the both of them and let the rest of us have a league where no one has to put up with their rubbish any more.

[PauloPerth]

This was voted out by the clubs a while ago, so now rangers and Celtic reps are basically going round the league two clubs presenting their proposal, offering loads of cash to get it accepted. It's basically bribery.  If you did that in any other sport/walk of life, you'd get done for it.  

Rangers and Celtic have been a bit sly here, they know part-time league two clubs run on a shoestring, and will find it hard to turn down this money.  It's a two year trial, but let's be honest here; if it goes ahead there is absolutely no way they will then be removed from the set up. We'll be stuck with it.  And then Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen will want a piece of the action, and more small clubs will slip out of the league set up altogether.

The argument that it's to benefit our national set up is farcical.. if that's the case then why not a single Scotland under 21 side in the set up if we must have such a thing.

It sends a message that our lower leagues are worthless and simply there as a breeding ground/ experiment for bigger clubs. It's a huge kick in the teeth for our lower league sides.

Its a horrendous proposal and I hope Saints fight it. 

 

There's a long thread on this on P&B amongst league two club supporters who will be directly affected. They are massively against it, to the point of boycotting if it goes through. A couple of the points above are probably ones I've read there that I agree with.

 

[PauloPerth]

Agree with Indicator's long post quoted by GD higher up. And fair play Jim McInally, a Celtic fan by all accounts, but at least he's not being blinkered regarding this selfish bullshit proposal.

As if playing on crap pitches against journeyman part-time players is the best way to develop elite youngsters. Surely they should be up against the best youngsters from top European teams? You do wonder if celtic and rangers are trying to get a team lower in the leagues, so that if they do eventually get their dream move to a big money set up, we still won't really be rid of them.

[dave mc]

Someone on p& b mentioned,what if the hu ns go bust again,will they play their colts team in the bottom tier,guaranteeing them points? Farcical in the extreme,but I’d love the hu ns to meet their colts soon 

[St. Paddy]

I opened the thread and saw the question "do you agree with colt clubs in div 2" and voted yes.

I voted yes without the context of it only being two colt teams. I whole heartedly oppose that.

I read thru the thread,  and see the poison these two teams are trying to insidiously propagate. I am disgusted by their attitude.

I think Scottish football needs more sustainable clubs in the football pyramid,  and a correctly positioned colts league, with adequately managed transitions between divisions would be something I would support. 

It needs 10 or 12 or more clubs from the top two divisions to properly invest in a 2nd team, similar to the old style reserve league, and offer promotion and relegation to and from the current 2nd div. On a par with the current regulations regarding highland/lowland league, but with the added caveat that they may be crowned champions etc, but not get promoted higher. 

If the senior team is demoted to the bottom tier, the colt team is automatically demoted back to the colt/reserve league.

Just a suggestion.