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The problem is further down the system, Dumbarton have already had to end their youth squads because they could no longer afford to run them without funding. ~20 10-13 year olds thrown out the game. 

Seems mad that when young players are struggling to get a chance in senior football as it is, we decide to dramatically cull the amount who'll be entering the game. A large chunk of a generation will be lost. 

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The problem is further down the system, Dumbarton have already had to end their youth squads because they could no longer afford to run them without funding. ~20 10-13 year olds thrown out the game. 

Seems mad that when young players are struggling to get a chance in senior football as it is, we decide to dramatically cull the amount who'll be entering the game. A large chunk of a generation will be lost. 

The other way to look at it is that boys club football is suffering due to too many clubs (like Dumbarton) carrying a youth system, taking boys out of boys club football 

Perhaps teams like that should develop a process where boys with promise are somehow involved with the club through training once a week, playing select games, yet remaining with their boys club on a week in week out basis

My lad is at Hibs and I have often wondered the benefit the boys get from being part of some set ups and getting hammered week after week. 

The sad truth is is that if Saints had got the 'elite' status, they would have been the weakest in that list by some way (going in the evidence at my sons age group)

They might have improved through getting boys that previously went to Dundee Utd ( Dundee are poor, and the 3 best players they did have are now at Utd)

Im not totally in agreement with Project Brave, and don't have all the answers, but multiple pro-youth teams doesn't necessarily present the best model either

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I don't know enough about youth development to suggest what route we should take, just seems common sense that butchering the youth systems of lower league sides, who often rescue talented players released too early (Andy Robertson would've given up the game if Queens Park youth system didn't rescue him after his release from Celtic) isn't a wise plan. Especially when the "elite" clubs are generally ones who don't give young players a proper chance. 

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The other way to look at it is that boys club football is suffering due to too many clubs (like Dumbarton) carrying a youth system, taking boys out of boys club football 

Perhaps teams like that should develop a process where boys with promise are somehow involved with the club through training once a week, playing select games, yet remaining with their boys club on a week in week out basis

My lad is at Hibs and I have often wondered the benefit the boys get from being part of some set ups and getting hammered week after week. 

The sad truth is is that if Saints had got the 'elite' status, they would have been the weakest in that list by some way (going in the evidence at my sons age group)

They might have improved through getting boys that previously went to Dundee Utd ( Dundee are poor, and the 3 best players they did have are now at Utd)

Im not totally in agreement with Project Brave, and don't have all the answers, but multiple pro-youth teams doesn't necessarily present the best model either

scrap the whole pro youth system below under 17 level. Increase the number of football academy places and let the boys learn their stuff at boys clubs with pro teams bringing boys in for training.

A system that worked perfectly well until 1995 or so.

Project brave is crazy in that it concentrates the so called elite level within the main cities.

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scrap the whole pro youth system below under 17 level. Increase the number of football academy places and let the boys learn their stuff at boys clubs with pro teams bringing boys in for training.

A system that worked perfectly well until 1995 or so.

Project brave is crazy in that it concentrates the so called elite level within the main cities.

Yip, another perfectly viable option

There are only 6 boys in my sons year at the academy. Surely this limits the training drill options, and it's a bit putting all their eggs in the one basket regarding the measurable success of the academy system

 

Edited by Edstar101

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The worrying thing is that everyone involved in Project Brave that actually played the game would have come through the system pre 1995. If they can't see that that worked fairly well then the game's ****ed. It's a ****ing joke tbh, the governing body really are a clueless bunch.

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It will be interesting to see what the independent assessors say....seemingly they are the same lot that looked at the system in Spain and France (I think) and a couple of other countries 

Sometimes though, these 'independent' assessors don't like to be too honestly critical as they are looking for repeat / new business and if too hardass people want them kept at a distance

 

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To organise football in the country the FA has to be respected and have power. This is where the SFA starts to fall down. 

The SFA are throwing all their eggs into one basket with regards to project brave, Iceland have been a success story in recent years and instead of concentrating on the pro clubs they looked at coaching standards and access to facilities. All coaches are qualified and paid, large number are PE teachers. Icelandic FA presentation on the development of football stated:

Number of training sessions for the typical Icelandic player

• 6-10 year olds = 2-3x per week

• 10-14 year olds = 3-4x per week

• 14-18 year olds = 4-6x per week

• Adults = 5-8 times per week

Additional training:

• We have educated physical education teachers teaching sports at school 2x per week (age 6-19)

• All children must learn how to swim 1x per week (age 6-17)

This is all players not just elite level. Season also only lasts form may to September so longer pre season and time to work on skills.

I heard an interview about Belgian FA the other week and how the performance director is in overall charge. When they started x number of years ago they decided every team in Belgium would play a 4-4-2 every club in the country signed up to the plan. After a year or so they changed it and decided teams would play 4-3-1-2 again every team in the country was instructed that was how they would play. The international manager has changed during this period but he has to fit in with the plan.

There is no way the SFA would ever get agreement from teams in this country for such a radical plan.

Edited by mainstand

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It is a interesting situation developing here and for me a very expensive exercise to boot, While I see the principles in all of this I also see the negatives there is no doubt young players who go right through the system 10-24 years old I will say are a poor return on the money they have cost clubs, a lot of these players seem to regress as they pass 16-17 years to a point they actually go through the motions in a game rather than contribute, I would use rightly/wrongly Liam Cadis, Scott Brown and even Chris Kane as examples always full of promises now struggling to be involved in games possibly burn out, confidence shot to pieces with underachieving, fed up with the game familiarity with training etc etc, I do not know the answer either however I am close to a situation which is developing and interesting to see how it develops. we have an apprentice serving his time fully qualified/time served next August he was in pro youth until 16 he wanted to go back play with his mates in youth football, he has two friends who continued in the game and both are now on loan at bottom league 2 teams and set to face the stark reality of what to do next when released  this season I would think (Both are not setting heather on fire either), our young lad is" banging them in for a junior team" just now being noticed by senior teams of all levels and is really in a great place enjoying his football and possibility to step up to senior level and has a career to look forward to outside football as well.

 

      

 

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I heard an interview about Belgian FA the other week and how the performance director is in overall charge. When they started x number of years ago they decided every team in Belgium would play a 4-4-2 every club in the country signed up to the plan. After a year or so they changed it and decided teams would play 4-3-1-2 again every team in the country was instructed that was how they would play. The international manager has changed during this period but he has to fit in with the plan.

There is no way the SFA would ever get agreement from teams in this country for such a radical plan.

Quite right too! I think that is ridiculous. The club game ie the week in, week out games attended by most fans, should always be the most important. International football should always be secondary. Changing an entire league for the sake of a few games a year is farcical.

FIFA & UEFA really are intent on ruining football for the sake of their own egos.

Edited by ScottMann

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I think the international breaks this season have been a right pain. Along with the breaks for cup finals & winter break,this season has been shit. Or is it just because our team is shit lately that I am losing interest.

Cup Final is ok but totally agree about the others, International breaks especially. Most folk I've heard comment are against them. The season's just getting started and it's off again, then on, then off then on. Ridiculous.

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Cup Final is ok but totally agree about the others, International breaks especially. Most folk I've heard comment are against them. The season's just getting started and it's off again, then on, then off then on. Ridiculous.

Especially annoying when Strachan wasn't playing anyone from the Scottish leagues anyway.

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It's ridiculously expensive to comply with the criteria. Hibs already have a purpose built training facility, but still need a fortune to meet certain aspects

Is it not estimated to cost £500k-£600k a season to run things they way they demand? 

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Is it not estimated to cost £500k-£600k a season to run things they way they demand? 

It's the up front costs too....Hibs will have to replace their Astro surface (which, to be fair, needs done anyway) and then build a dome over it as their current indoor facility isn't big enough (the 'barn' for anybody that has been there)

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The worrying thing is that everyone involved in Project Brave that actually played the game would have come through the system pre 1995. If they can't see that that worked fairly well then the game's ****ed. It's a ****ing joke tbh, the governing body really are a clueless bunch.

Aye but they can fair come up wie some braw emotive names for their projects. I mean 'brave' ffs.

And the 'mission statements' on their website are world class - even though they fail utterly to live up to any of them. "Trusted to lead"... whit??

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It's the up front costs too....Hibs will have to replace their Astro surface (which, to be fair, needs done anyway) and then build a dome over it as their current indoor facility isn't big enough (the 'barn' for anybody that has been there)

Can't recall the full story but I remember Geoff wanting to build an indoor facility behind the East Stand many years ago and it not being allowed by either local planning or the SFA for some strange reason. We were far too progressive for some folk at one stage!

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I heard an interview about Belgian FA the other week and how the performance director is in overall charge. When they started x number of years ago they decided every team in Belgium would play a 4-4-2 every club in the country signed up to the plan. After a year or so they changed it and decided teams would play 4-3-1-2 again every team in the country was instructed that was how they would play. The international manager has changed during this period but he has to fit in with the plan.

There is no way the SFA would ever get agreement from teams in this country for such a radical plan.

Do you mean that every youth team had to play that formation, or literally every single team including senior teams? I just don't see how that would work. It would mean managers in top level matches wouldn't be able to change their system during a match that was going badly, for example. If that's the case then I'm very glad they haven't adopted it in Scotland.

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Project Brave evaluates clubs academies

Elite: Aberdeen, Celtic, Hamilton Academical, Hearts, Hibernian, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Rangers.

I may be mistaken but did I read somewhere that you had to apply for Elite Status and St Mirren and Dundee could not afford to apply. Does anyone know what the criteria is for Elite and does it bring any benefits to the young players?

Progressive: Ayr United, Dundee United, Forth Valley, Inverness Caledonian Thistle, Partick Thistle, Ross County, St Mirren, St Johnstone.
Performance: Dundee, Fife, Greenock Morton, Queen's Park.

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