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Havana Saint

Scotland's shame

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27 minutes ago, sixties saintee said:

Hopefully they will charge Steve Clarke over his comments, lets get this can o worms opened up once and for all.

Charge Steve Clarke? That would be their normal solution to dealing with sectarian abuse. 

The only solution is to take points off clubs - it is the only way you will see it stamped out of football grounds. It is a far deeper problem in society unfortunately. 

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14 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

Charge Steve Clarke? That would be their normal solution to dealing with sectarian abuse. 

The only solution is to take points off clubs - it is the only way you will see it stamped out of football grounds. It is a far deeper problem in society unfortunately. 

Agree wae what your saying GD, but got to start somewhere.

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2 minutes ago, sixties saintee said:

Agree wae what your saying GD, but got to start somewhere.

I would still think that charging Clarke won't encourage others to speak against the abuse in the future. 

When you look at the comments on twitter it is shows the sort of issue - 

 

Both sets of fans just point and blame the other.

 

 

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1 hour ago, garydavidson said:

I would still think that charging Clarke won't encourage others to speak against the abuse in the future. 

When you look at the comments on twitter it is shows the sort of issue - 

 

Both sets of fans just point and blame the other.

 

 

Mr Sutherland will get Pelter's for that I would imagine.

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We need to agree that sectarianism is first and foremost Anti-Catholicism.

Scotland has been a country who historically has not welcomed Irish Catholics.

"Catholics need not apply" was commonly written in job adverts. In 2019, the Catholic community has had to put up with appalling abuse and singing from certain "fans".

Orange marches past churches are still happening in this country in 2019.

It's almost an accepted social norm.

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It needs to be rooted out, whoever it is directed toward, believers of faith, non believers ,I could go on and on with a list. It is a poison which blights our society and  not welcome in a modern Scotland.

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4 hours ago, Havana Saint said:

We need to agree that sectarianism is first and foremost Anti-Catholicism.

Scotland has been a country who historically has not welcomed Irish Catholics.

"Catholics need not apply" was commonly written in job adverts. In 2019, the Catholic community has had to put up with appalling abuse and singing from certain "fans".

Orange marches past churches are still happening in this country in 2019.

It's almost an accepted social norm.

I cant agree that sectarianism is anti-Catholicism it is every bit as reprehensible coming from "catholic" septic fans as it is from the other cheek of the same arse. I do however agree with the rest of your post.

I personally don't understand why strict liability is not enforced either willingly by the clubs or otherwise. Only clubs who have something to be ashamed of need suffer.

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41 minutes ago, ejksjfc said:

I personally don't understand why strict liability is not enforced either willingly by the clubs or otherwise. Only clubs who have something to be ashamed of need suffer.

I will need to have a look back at what was said at the time but I don't think clubs were happy with how it would be implemented and how punishments were to be handed out.

There are a lot of conditions and situations to consider it's use and I guess that is the sticking point.

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3 hours ago, ejksjfc said:

I cant agree that sectarianism is anti-Catholicism it is every bit as reprehensible coming from "catholic" septic fans as it is from the other cheek of the same arse. I do however agree with the rest of your post.

I personally don't understand why strict liability is not enforced either willingly by the clubs or otherwise. Only clubs who have something to be ashamed of need suffer.

As Steve Clark says it has roots in the west coast

Most of these guys don't know why they have each others. It is down to they have each other because of what club or religious cult you follow.

The sooner they move down south or to Europe the better.

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Points deduction is perhaps the best idea reckon 10 points for incidents like the Steve Clarke one for starters, 15 for a second offence and so on. Make it so draconian the offenders will shit themselves. 

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He mentions Alex Dyer, who I was kitman for at his job before Killie............one classy classy guy.  

He mentions his kids in England. I have had the luxury of avoiding sectarianism, and whenever I hear it I am kinda fascinated by the people, how they ACTUALLY believe it. I look and listen to it, like Clarke says, like i would a racist, with sympathy for the dead head that's operating the mouth.

Scotland to have any hope of success in sport or as a nation needs rid of that garbage. 

As someone above posted, I  too vote for getting the OF to fk out of the league, let them go to England. Without the OF so much sectarianism would evaporate.

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10 hours ago, Cagey said:

As Steve Clark says it has roots in the west coast

Most of these guys don't know why they have each others. It is down to they have each other because of what club or religious cult you follow.

The sooner they move down south or to Europe the better.

Fair point but don't forget if they move south they will still be playing in Glasgow.  You can just see a revised format for Sportscene, an hour devoted to the ugly sisters games against Fleetwood and Burton Albion (don't think they will get straight into the Premier or the Championship) followed by a quick 15 minutes run round "Scottish football today".

Fortunately, I do not think the Sassenachs will touch them with the proverbial barge pole.  Strict liability, imposed if necessary, is the only answer.  There would not have been a cheap out of the Sevco boys on Wednesday if they were at risk of being kicked out of the cup.

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17 hours ago, MySpazz said:

He mentions Alex Dyer, who I was kitman for at his job before Killie............one classy classy guy.  

He mentions his kids in England. I have had the luxury of avoiding sectarianism, and whenever I hear it I am kinda fascinated by the people, how they ACTUALLY believe it. I look and listen to it, like Clarke says, like i would a racist, with sympathy for the dead head that's operating the mouth.

Scotland to have any hope of success in sport or as a nation needs rid of that garbage. 

As someone above posted, I  too vote for getting the OF to fk out of the league, let them go to England. Without the OF so much sectarianism would evaporate.

Steve Clarke has nothing to do with Celtic!!  The vile abuse he was subjected to was purely and simply down to the fact that he is a Roman Catholic.  That is horrific.

 

 

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On 2/22/2019 at 8:56 PM, Havana Saint said:

Steve Clarke has nothing to do with Celtic!!  The vile abuse he was subjected to was purely and simply down to the fact that he is a Roman Catholic.  That is horrific.

 

I'm always fascinated by how these guys even know (or claim to know) people's religions. I have no idea what the religious beliefs are of any footballers in Scotland. Possibly because I don't care.

I still remember Paddy Connolly getting booed once when coming on at Ibrox, presumably because his name is Paddy.

 

 

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On 2/21/2019 at 11:42 AM, dunblanemike said:

 

 

On 2/21/2019 at 11:42 AM, dunblanemike said:

Scottish clubs voted against introducing strict liability back in 2013, claiming it was a step too far (docking points, closing stands etc). Time to have another vote I reckon.

 

On 2/21/2019 at 8:29 PM, ejksjfc said:

I cant agree that sectarianism is anti-Catholicism it is every bit as reprehensible coming from "catholic" septic fans as it is from the other cheek of the same arse. I do however agree with the rest of your post.

I personally don't understand why strict liability is not enforced either willingly by the clubs or otherwise. Only clubs who have something to be ashamed of need suffer.

In a recent BBC survey/poll of the 42 senior clubs on "Strict Liability" only 3 clubs wanted it, those being Q-of-S., Annan & Partick.

14 clubs said they would vote against, including Saints.

17 clubs said they were unwilling to comment.

8 clubs failed to respond , among those were Celtic , Hearts & Rangers.

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Saints Response:

https://jamesdornanmsp.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/sl109-54207468.pdf

Some very valid points IMHO and... at least the club responded to the survey - robustly! (To use a term frequently employed by the current ibrox incumbents)

Very telling - those clubs that are the major source of the problems refused to respond at all.

Edited by Indicator

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The problem for the small clubs like Saints is that the chickenshits at the SFA are likely to punish them rather than the two clubs where perhaps 80% of the problems occur, as this excellent article explains as part of a wider discussion of the state of the game in Scotland:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47697708

 

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I’m still not sure about strict liability what I am sure about is that clubs shouldn’t be voting on it. The sfa/spfl need to grow a set an start making rules about this and forcing the clubs to comply

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On 3/27/2019 at 12:59 PM, Abernethy Saint said:

The problem for the small clubs like Saints is that the chickenshits at the SFA are likely to punish them rather than the two clubs where perhaps 80% of the problems occur, as this excellent article explains as part of a wider discussion of the state of the game in Scotland:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47697708

 

too right, they would. you just need to look at heavy handed stewarding telling saints fans to sit down when bigger teams go to grounds and stand up all game with nothing said.

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On 3/27/2019 at 12:59 PM, Abernethy Saint said:

The problem for the small clubs like Saints is that the chickenshits at the SFA are likely to punish them rather than the two clubs where perhaps 80% of the problems occur, as this excellent article explains as part of a wider discussion of the state of the game in Scotland:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47697708

 

The only club I can remember having its ground closed for crowd trouble was - wait for it - Huntly FC.  Some supporters taking a short cut across the pitch at the end of a game allegedly pushed the referee over.  Christie Park was closed for 2 months in punishment.

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