Have we underachieved this season?

[garydavidson]

30 minutes ago, 541ntees said:

So we d be swapping places with Dundee 

He is suggesting United will be promoted and we will be relegated.  So swapping places in the leagues not league positions. 

[541ntees]

7 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

He is suggesting United will be promoted and we will be relegated.  So swapping places in the leagues not league positions. 

That’s not what he said , I maybe being pedantic but there’s a lot of ifs- if we didn’t have a good run if we were worse than Dundee Hamilton and st mirren if Utd come up.

[SconeSaintees]

35 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Just seems theres a lot of people with the "we'd be relegated without the good run of form!!" chat, as if the good run of form was shorter than the bad. 

We've been good for twice as long as bad, this season.

So that's acceptable then!!!!

[SconeSaintees]

45 minutes ago, 541ntees said:

So we d be swapping places with Dundee 

Forget it

[garydavidson]

16 minutes ago, 541ntees said:

That’s not what he said , I maybe being pedantic but there’s a lot of ifs- if we didn’t have a good run if we were worse than Dundee Hamilton and st mirren if Utd come up.

You know you are being pedantic

Looking at the form table for 2019 we are the worst team in the league. That is worrying if it isn't fixed over the summer break no if about that.  Of course there are ifs and buts it is impossible to know if this team would have the fight for a relegation battle as they seem to be lacking desire so far this year.

 

[andrew]

Long good run. Short bad run. Team selection. Tactics. Staleness.

All I know is that on the whole it’s become rather distressing, if not depressing, watching our performances since the new year.

[cristo]

2 hours ago, SconeSaintees said:

Forget it

I knew what you meant

[Johnny B]

……..…...Goals for…….Goals against

2018/19……37……………52 (Forecast on average for season so far)

2017/18……42……………53

2016/17……50……………46

2015/16……58……………55

Points may be similar but goals scored are sadly lacking and falling each year. We need a striker who can put the ball in the back of the net. He will be difficult to find. Goals conceded seem to much the the same.

Food for thought have we become too defensive over the years; using our wide players in a more defensive roles and leaving our striker isolated. I do not remember McLean being so much isolated as Kane is and McLean got many more chances with our wide players playing higher up the park.

[PauloPerth]

We appear to have lost a bit of our battling spirit this season. It's a massive ask to replace guys like Dave Mackay, Fraser Wright, Steven Anderson, Chris Millar and Steven Maclean who have all left over the past few years, in terms of character, but a few more 'leaders' are definitely required for next season.

In league games where we have fallen behind, we have taken 1(one) point all season.

[Cagey]

32 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

We appear to have lost a bit of our battling spirit this season. It's a massive ask to replace guys like Dave Mackay, Fraser Wright, Steven Anderson, Chris Millar and Steven Maclean who have all left over the past few years, in terms of character, but a few more 'leaders' are definitely required for next season.

In league games where we have fallen behind, we have taken 1(one) point all season.

Was a mistake making Joe captain but to be fair there weren't too many candidates. Liam was not guaranteed a game at start of season, Easton was injured & don't think Foster would have made a good captain.

[PauloPerth]

12 hours ago, Cagey said:

Was a mistake making Joe captain but to be fair there weren't too many candidates. Liam was not guaranteed a game at start of season, Easton was injured & don't think Foster would have made a good captain.

I didn't mean leaders purely in terms of the team captain, was meaning people who would shout and cajole teammates and drag others' up when things weren't going well. 

Steven Maclea and Frazer Wright were two who spring to mind that were rarely captain, but were certainly 'leaders' on the park.

[RandomGuy]

7 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

I didn't mean leaders purely in terms of the team captain, was meaning people who would moan like **** at everyone 

FTFY

Edited April 3, 2019 by RandomGuy

[Valentino Bolognese]

Current captain : Zander or Craig

Future captain : Liam Gordon

Across the back line the most vocal seems to be Foster, and normally for the wrong reasons. Would be good to see if Kerr can step up but get the impression that he's been in Joe's shaddow.

[Rob]

So at least we are top in one respect. This is points compared to this time last year. 

[lossiesaint]

If you'd asked at the beginning of the season, I'd have said that getting into the top 6 with the likes of Celtic, Sevco, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Dundee, St Mirren...all teams who manage to attract more punters than Saints due to larger local populations... I'd have said that would have been ideal. We've been lucky recent years because the balance of Scottish football was upset by clubs being run badly, but now they are all getting back to where they should be. The Scottish football order of things are almost back to normality. Sure, we'll maybe get a 3rd like we did 21 years ago, but less likely considering the team we were challenging for that place those days!

We went on a wee run before the end of last year and we were all dreaming of possible Europe again, close to Aberdeen and Hearts. We've fallen away, but I think at the moment we are pretty much where I thought we should have aimed to be. We can't compete with the big guns, we do pretty well really with the turnover we have. I don't blame the manager for where we are, he can't get what he wants because we can't attract.... I've seen us looking at players from teams around about us but as soon as we are mentioned as looking, the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen are looking and taking.

We're not getting relegated or getting in to a play-off calamity... time to play who wants to play for saints and get the rest to fekk... give the manager a chance to build early again.

I still trust Tommy and I still think next year we will be better... its just how much better all the teams around us will get too...

[sixties saintee]

After the start we had , the falling apart since January, if we had continued that form we should be up there wae Kilmarnock , you cant blame the injury to Drey Wright, it was upto the players to step up, which they obviously did not.

[Johnny B]

What did you expect to achieve at the start of the season. My expectations may not be as high as others. 

I expected a run in the cups but I know if we meet one of the big teams our run will end.

When we drew Celtic at home in the 1/4 finals of the League Cup, I hoped for a win. But I do not think we under achieve losing 0v1 

When we drew Celtic away in the Scottish Cup I did not expect us to progress. Here again for me we did not under achieve.

In the league, I thought with a bit of luck we may have made the top 6. We did not but have we under achieved? I think not. Did we over achieve in previous seasons because Rangers and Hibs were not in the League and this makes our expectations higher than they should be.

Every year I go into the season with expectations but I am realistic; if we finish 6-9th in League I believe we have not under achieved.

We are a provincial team with a proud history and are unable to compete financially with the bigger clubs. 2014 we win the Scottish Cup against Dundee United look where they are now. 

 

[Cagey]

Simples,we have overachieved in first half of season & underachieved the second half of season.

The problem is if we end the season in the present form then we go into next season without making a few decent signings we will be in trouble next season.

[Widge]

31 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Simples,we have overachieved in first half of season & underachieved the second half of season.

The problem is if we end the season in the present form then we go into next season without making a few decent signings we will be in trouble next season.

Why will be in trouble? These are the same players that had us 4th at one point and comfortably safe from relegation? A few better players would have us top 6  

Form won’t carry over 3 months. 

[garydavidson]

27 minutes ago, Widge said:

Form won’t carry over 3 months. 

It has this year 

[Rob]

I'll say it again and hopefully I'll get someone to agree but a lot of teams have made us look better than we are by being absolutely terrible against us.

The mentality hasnt been right,  there is ability in the team but too many mistakes. Theres a lot of players that dont look like they want to play for the club, like its just a job. Not enough leadership on the park, team spirit or love for the club. Too much pointing and blame amongst certain players when things go wrong.

 

[Cagey]

8 hours ago, Widge said:

Why will be in trouble? These are the same players that had us 4th at one point and comfortably safe from relegation? A few better players would have us top 6  

Form won’t carry over 3 months. 

Yeah, we are actually 6 points better off than last season but because of the last 3 months the perception is that we are a poorer team than last season.

[blueheaven]

19 hours ago, Johnny B said:

Did we over achieve in previous seasons because Rangers and Hibs were not in the League and this makes our expectations higher than they should be.

 

Pretty much agree with your post but just on this small point - I'd say the disappearance of Rangers basically bumped every team in the division (other than Celtic) up one place higher than they'd otherwise have been, but it's only one place which still means we were doing bloody well under our own steam. We still got there by working hard and playing well (otherwise we could easily have been down beside Raith, Falkirk, Partick, Dunfermline and other similarly sized clubs).

I don't accept Hibs having the same effect - certainly in my years of watching Saints it's been fairly normal for Hibs to be crap and we've regularly finished above them. Even this season we were above them until fairly recently. And let's not forget that the reason they went down and then couldn't get back up again for 3-4 seasons is that, for all the money they were spending, crowds they were pulling in and supposedly good players they had, they weren't good enough.

To answer the thread's original question, if we finish 7th this season I'd say that overall that's a perfectly acceptable position for Saints. But yeah, of course when you look at the position we were in at New Year and consider how exciting the signings have been, the feeling of disappointment is fairly justifiable. I think it's important now that we get some good results to finish the season, get 7th place to earn as much prize money as possible, and look at getting good pre-seasons in for players like MOH and Swanson.

[garydavidson]

11 hours ago, Cagey said:

Yeah, we are actually 6 points better off than last season but because of the last 3 months the perception is that we are a poorer team than last season.

That one stat doesn't really tell the picture of the season for us or for the lack of quality down the bottom of the league.  We were above Aberdeen for a period of time and a long way ahead of Hibs and Motherwell, to have lost that ground most certainly makes it feel like an under achievement.  Does saying we have more points than last season make it any better? Not for me.

[Dooj]

For me, this season has been, so far, a par performance - we are pretty much where I would expect us to be. I am disappointed that we didnt make top 6 but in the same way as I am disappointed when we get knocked out of the cup. I hope that we get top 6 but i didnt expect it.

Its been a very unusual season with the timings of the winning/losing streaks. If we had been scraping along at the bottom of the table and then put together all those consecutive wins/clean sheets to get us to our current position I would be absolutely delighted. I am only disappointed because of what might have been given our position at Christmas.