Shaggy Jenkins

Have we underachieved this season?

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46 minutes ago, akuram said:

If we had accumulated our point total evenly over the season we or at I would have been happy. However this season has totally gone to pot and we have the points but no satisfaction.

We need a striker who scores goals, a holding midfielder and a big centre-back.

We need a clear-out.

How many will not renew their season ticket?

Worryingly only the Ormond Stand will be needed soon. Mass Apathy from fans who are not die hards.

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1 hour ago, Dave H said:

Exciting start to season, team spirit. Best football for many seasons, entertaining, dangerous going forward.

Drey Wright gets injured. 

Shite since the perfect performance v Dundee at Dens at New Year, 3 going on 10, and what we didnt know back then - that would be the last time we see any sort of performance for the remainder of the season.  

Are we 7th best in Scotland, mibee. Are we 9th best in Scotland, mibee. Not a disaster season, just failed to reach the destiny our first half of season was leading us to.

 

I think since winter break,points wise we are 12 th. If this had been the start of season more of us would be calling for a new manager.

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Those 2-5 points are huge as they'd have us right in the mix for the top six, despite everything. 

Our season is a bit like getting to the Scottish Cup final then losing it to Albion Rovers. Do you celebrate reaching the final or bemoan throwing away a great chance to win it?

I think we probably overachieved in getting ourselves to where we were in January but equally have underachieved since then. It's a hard question to answer if you insist on assessing the season as a whole. 

The argument that is ridiculous though is the one that tries to remove to good run and say look at how bad it could have been. Pointless. 

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Most posters have a valid point one way or another ...  this is only my view as a biased long term Saintee who has watched Saints for over 50 years up and down ALL the divisions.  As a glass half empty person each season I wonder if it’s our season to be relegated. I do think we have the makings of a good wee squad for our budget, just looking for the right blend. Disappointed folk shouting for Tommy to go but hey it’s all about opinion. 

We should be very careful what we wish for.

If next season we start as we finish this season then I will be worried but until then I am sorry to say a successful season for Saints is avoiding relegation.

 

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The season is 38 games long not just the last 10. If you look at the league predictions on here the majority of folk went for 6/7/8th which is where we are and more than likely finish. So no we have not underachieved we are where most folk (some deluded prats thought we would finish 4th :oops:) thought we would be.

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1 hour ago, ejksjfc said:

The season is 38 games long not just the last 10. If you look at the league predictions on here the majority of folk went for 6/7/8th which is where we are and more than likely finish. So no we have not underachieved we are where most folk (some deluded prats thought we would finish 4th :oops:) thought we would be.

Is it ridiculous to be disappointed we've not finished top half?

This was the table after we beat Dundee at Dens...

Screenshot_20190331-151951_Chrome.thumb.jpg.f696dffe79cd1ff00fe0c1592ab3a441.jpg

Why were people "deluded" to be talking about trying to compete with an Aberdeen side just 5 points ahead?

Motherwell overtaking us from this situation isnt acceptable (that's not me saying to sack Wright) and its surely not just a case of brushing that off because we all thought we'd be in this position about 9 months ago.

Edited by RandomGuy

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I think it's concerning that the season has been based on an excellent run, and a disastrous run. It suggests that our players are very sensitive in regards to confidence.

Overall, I don't think we've underachieved. Staying up should be our aim each season. Any better than that is a bonus.

Some signings did not work out, but showed potential at the start.

Perhaps the change came when Joe signed a pre-contract (if that is what has happened). That must have hit morale. Then, I think a few players were told their contracts weren't being renewed perhaps (Watt? Alston?). Morale dropped even further maybe.

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I agree main theme I am seeing in majority of posts is acceptance of an absolutely shocking performance in every game since Dundee(best overall saints performance I have seen for years) pre winter break because we set ourselves a low bar?? Why is that acceptable?? What changed??? Same players same manager, same training regime, the bottom line is if we hadn't got points on the board early we would be swapping places with United. There is something fundamentaly wrong at the club at the moment, don't hear any players coming out with it's a great place to be, best dressing room I have ever been in, comrades together etc etc. I hate this next cliche but has he lost which previously was his prized asset the "dressing room"

Drastic rethink in summer or next season really could be the one that is dreaded by all of us.

It is unacceptable, unprofessional and well just shite. But this time we can't point the finger at SB as he has back the manager to the hilt.

So something seriously wrong!!

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17 minutes ago, SconeSaintees said:

I agree main theme I am seeing in majority of posts is acceptance of an absolutely shocking performance in every game since Dundee(best overall saints performance I have seen for years) pre winter break because we set ourselves a low bar?? Why is that acceptable?? What changed??? Same players same manager, same training regime, the bottom line is if we hadn't got points on the board early we would be swapping places with United. There is something fundamentaly wrong at the club at the moment, don't hear any players coming out with it's a great place to be, best dressing room I have ever been in, comrades together etc etc. I hate this next cliche but has he lost which previously was his prized asset the "dressing room"

Drastic rethink in summer or next season really could be the one that is dreaded by all of us.

It is unacceptable, unprofessional and well just shite. But this time we can't point the finger at SB as he has back the manager to the hilt.

So something seriously wrong!!

I suppose when things are going well you will hear all the stuff about a great dressing room etc but they will be quiet when things are really bad.

The other thing there has been silence on is new contracts etc. The last statement was Tommy's moan about Gallagher signing PCA for Motherwell.

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Well he can moan about what could have been he got pretty much everybody he wanted over last two windows and look at us now going backwards at a scary rate of nots

As I said before something fundamentally wrong somewhere in the club, I don't buy all this shite about players beind tired or lost confidence bullshit!! Which unfortunately is now an accepted get out and is condoned as acceptable by fans, would love to see these guy coping with a real job

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3 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Is it ridiculous to be disappointed we've not finished top half?

This was the table after we beat Dundee at Dens...

Screenshot_20190331-151951_Chrome.thumb.jpg.f696dffe79cd1ff00fe0c1592ab3a441.jpg

Why were people "deluded" to be talking about trying to compete with an Aberdeen side just 5 points ahead?

Motherwell overtaking us from this situation isnt acceptable (that's not me saying to sack Wright) and its surely not just a case of brushing that off because we all thought we'd be in this position about 9 months ago.

You obviously never picked up on my ironic dig at myself, I thought the embarrassed smiley may have given that away, for that I apologise.

My main point was that pre winter break we very slightly over achieved post winter break we have under achieved probably at the end of the season will have done neither.

I would say overall I am slightly disappointed with what has happened this season but the 3 games against Celtic in a fortnight truly ****ed our season plus injuries have not been kind to us.

We have the makings of a decent squad at McD but need a wee bit of luck with injuries and fixture scheduling neither of which have been kind to us this season.

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1 hour ago, ejksjfc said:

 

I would say overall I am slightly disappointed with what has happened this season but the 3 games against Celtic in a fortnight truly ****ed our season plus injuries have not been kind to us.

Not sure I agree about injuries, losing Wright for the season was harsh, but that's the only thing we've had. I'm not convinced Easton is that big an upgrade on Tanser he'd have turned this form around.

The games against Celtic are an interesting point. Motherwell had 3 games in quick succession against Celtic in December last year.

If you compare results from the final league match against them it reads...

St Johnstone - 7 games, 1 win, 1 draw, 5 losses.

Motherwells 7 games after went 1 win, 1 draw, 5 losses. Their 7 games, the amount we have left, after that went 2 wins, 2 draws, 3 losses.

So we're not alone in being affected by the morale sapping run of games you inevitably face with them.

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Saints had a good points run before Christmas (Never should have lost that 1-2 game to Motherwell). Some times I wonder if we were actually that good or if the other teams were making us look better than we actually were. A lot of teams like Aberdeen hadnt been on form until 2019 which was when we completely dropped ours.

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On 3/31/2019 at 5:26 PM, SconeSaintees said:

I agree main theme I am seeing in majority of posts is acceptance of an absolutely shocking performance in every game since Dundee(best overall saints performance I have seen for years) pre winter break because we set ourselves a low bar?? Why is that acceptable?? What changed??? Same players same manager, same training regime, the bottom line is if we hadn't got points on the board early we would be swapping places with United. There is something fundamentaly wrong at the club at the moment, don't hear any players coming out with it's a great place to be, best dressing room I have ever been in, comrades together etc etc. I hate this next cliche but has he lost which previously was his prized asset the "dressing room"

Drastic rethink in summer or next season really could be the one that is dreaded by all of us.

It is unacceptable, unprofessional and well just shite. But this time we can't point the finger at SB as he has back the manager to the hilt.

So something seriously wrong!!

As well as changes on field, changes are needed off field. Turnout at games has been terrible and looks to be in severe decline. People wont go to watch rubbish football but the club also needs to figure put how to get more bums in seats. Could they do something with season tickets where the more people buy the cheaper it becomes for everyone, some sort of deposit and starting price. It breaks my heart when my 7 year old sometimes isnt bothered about going to the games, not because he doesnt love football, but what he sees is uninspiring.

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21 minutes ago, Rob said:

As well as changes on field, changes are needed off field. Turnout at games has been terrible and looks to be in severe decline. People wont go to watch rubbish football but the club also needs to figure put how to get more bums in seats. Could they do something with season tickets where the more people buy the cheaper it becomes for everyone, some sort of deposit and starting price. It breaks my heart when my 7 year old sometimes isnt bothered about going to the games, not because he doesnt love football, but what he sees is uninspiring.

Its the product on the field that matters.

The club have tried a few inniatives like kids getting in free with adults,Saints TV, season ticket discount card. I am sure there are others.

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On the crowds, This is what happens to mid-table teams though. Crowds would go up if we regained top 6 form (unlikely now that almost all the usual suspects are in the top league). However, they might well go up if we were fighting relegation. And they would certainly go up if we got relegated, when we would be expected to win most weeks, and would be charging a lot less to get in.

Personally, I’d prefer the first option but on current form and taking into account our history, the second is looking likely next year.

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On 3/31/2019 at 5:26 PM, SconeSaintees said:

 if we hadn't got points on the board early we would be swapping places with United.

if you are talking about dundee utd you do realise they are in a league below?

if we hadnt had a such a poor run we'd be challenging Celtic for the title

Edited by 541ntees

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6 hours ago, Rob said:

As well as changes on field, changes are needed off field. Turnout at games has been terrible and looks to be in severe decline. People wont go to watch rubbish football but the club also needs to figure put how to get more bums in seats. Could they do something with season tickets where the more people buy the cheaper it becomes for everyone, some sort of deposit and starting price. It breaks my heart when my 7 year old sometimes isnt bothered about going to the games, not because he doesnt love football, but what he sees is uninspiring.

I agree my football daft 12 year old Grandson is exactly the same. If we dont get them hooked at that age they will drift away probably never to return

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4 hours ago, 541ntees said:

if you are talking about dundee utd you do realise they are in a league below?

if we hadnt had a such a poor run we'd be challenging Celtic for the title

I am aware they are in the league below that's what zi meant without the run early in the campaign we would be staring relegation in the face!!!!

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3 hours ago, SconeSaintees said:

I am aware they are in the league below that's what zi meant without the run early in the campaign we would be staring relegation in the face!!!!

Why is the poor run we are on more relevant than the good run we were on?

After 21 games we were five points off 4th.

In the 10 games since we've dropped to 8th.

Why is the longer run of form the one you ignore?

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4 hours ago, SconeSaintees said:

I am aware they are in the league below that's what zi meant without the run early in the campaign we would be staring relegation in the face!!!!

So we d be swapping places with Dundee 

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1 hour ago, SconeSaintees said:

Not ignoring it at all, in fact the very opposite I am acknowledging the fact that had it not been for that period of form we would be in deep shit staring at the abyss 

Just seems theres a lot of people with the "we'd be relegated without the good run of form!!" chat, as if the good run of form was shorter than the bad. 

We've been good for twice as long as bad, this season.

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