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Given the lack of saints fans who go to games against the Glasgow teams it makes sense, especially from a financial point of view. Am I happy about having to relocate, no of course not, but for 3 games a season (4 max) in the league, if that extra £200k or whatever it is brings in a 15 goal a season striker and a push up the league then I’ll suffer in silence. Might actually help if all the saints fans are in the same stand as well. 

Im not sure itll happen as it would need to be announced prior to folk buying season tickets, then again it happened against Celtic in a game we won 2-1 a few years back and I don’t remember that being part of the season ticket pack either? 

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3 hours ago, Widge said:

Given the lack of saints fans who go to games against the Glasgow teams it makes sense, especially from a financial point of view. Am I happy about having to relocate, no of course not, but for 3 games a season (4 max) in the league, if that extra £200k or whatever it is brings in a 15 goal a season striker and a push up the league then I’ll suffer in silence. Might actually help if all the saints fans are in the same stand as well. 

Im not sure itll happen as it would need to be announced prior to folk buying season tickets, then again it happened against Celtic in a game we won 2-1 a few years back and I don’t remember that being part of the season ticket pack either? 

With the new season ticket card it cannot happen as you would not get entry at the main stand turnstiles.  As others have said it would have to be on renewal info pack and a seat allocation in main stand to be put onto card prior to season starting.

Edited by Templar Saint

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35 minutes ago, Templar Saint said:

With the new season ticket card it cannot happen as you would not get entry at the main stand turnstiles.  As others have said it would have to be on renewal info pack and a seat allocation in main stand to be put onto card prior to season starting.

If they move all the season ticket holders it really isn't much effort to alter the software to allow east stand card holders in the main stand.

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1 hour ago, Templar Saint said:

With the new season ticket card it cannot happen as you would not get entry at the main stand turnstiles.  As others have said it would have to be on renewal info pack and a seat allocation in main stand to be put onto card prior to season starting.

 

42 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

If they move all the season ticket holders it really isn't much effort to alter the software to allow east stand card holders in the main stand.

They'll surely be doing it when the Ormond is used for away fans?

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Just now, RandomGuy said:

 

They'll surely be doing it when the Ormond is used for away fans?

The Ormond season card holders have already been informed that they will also have an allocated seat in Main stand for these occasions where the oppositions supporters will be occupying the Ormond.  This has not been indicated to East stand season card holders and as supporters can buy individual tickets then any transfer of East stand supporters would have to have a seat allocation in main stand.

Software obviously cannot handle a transfer from East to Main stand without it being encrypted onto card.  Renewal pack clearly states that if card presented at wrong stand turnstiles entry will be rejected.

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18 minutes ago, Templar Saint said:

The Ormond season card holders have already been informed that they will also have an allocated seat in Main stand for these occasions where the oppositions supporters will be occupying the Ormond.  This has not been indicated to East stand season card holders and as supporters can buy individual tickets then any transfer of East stand supporters would have to have a seat allocation in main stand.

Software obviously cannot handle a transfer from East to Main stand without it being encrypted onto card.  Renewal pack clearly states that if card presented at wrong stand turnstiles entry will be rejected.

I meant the system can cope with Ormond season tickets being used in other stands, so letting East Stand ones do the same is possible.

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55 minutes ago, Templar Saint said:

The Ormond season card holders have already been informed that they will also have an allocated seat in Main stand for these occasions where the oppositions supporters will be occupying the Ormond.  This has not been indicated to East stand season card holders and as supporters can buy individual tickets then any transfer of East stand supporters would have to have a seat allocation in main stand.

Software obviously cannot handle a transfer from East to Main stand without it being encrypted onto card.  Renewal pack clearly states that if card presented at wrong stand turnstiles entry will be rejected.

I doubt the card would hold such specific details. The card will have an id and the info for that will be held in a database. Would be a simple process to allow fans into different stands when they make the change.

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30 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

I doubt the card would hold such specific details. The card will have an id and the info for that will be held in a database. Would be a simple process to allow fans into different stands when they make the change.

From Saints website:

Season Ticket holders will receive a Season Ticket Card similar to any bankcard or credit card you may have. The encrypted card will hold all your contact details along with details of your reserved seat and your admission category (e.g. Adults, Senior Citizen, Junior etc).

When you arrive at the stadium for a match your card will be scanned by the turnstile operator to give you access to your chosen stand. If you present your card at the wrong stand, entry will not be permitted.

I rest my case.

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24 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

I doubt the card would hold such specific details. The card will have an id and the info for that will be held in a database. Would be a simple process to allow fans into different stands when they make the change.

This ^^

I have an Ormond Stand season ticket, and I've not been told about having an allocated seat in any other stand, either in my renewal pack or any other way. 

I used to work with software suppliers for hotel room card keys. You can programme anything into the system and change it easily in real time. It's just a chip on a card that holds a number. With that number tied to a database record, you can 'tell' the system whether or not to open the door for that card. You just have to change the database to allow 'open' or 'not open'. I expect that the turnstile system will operate in a very similar way. This is tech that's at least 20 years old. 

In all honesty the best way would be to move to full e-ticketing (I've worked with those systems too), where the season ticket holder is sent their ticket the day before the game to store in an electronic wallet, or all the tickets for the year. 

As an aside it will make it much simpler to gather data on crowd and individual's behaviour. If the clubs were inclined it would be very simple indeed to harmonise ticketing to a single system across the SPL. It would make allocations, anti-social behaviour control, tailored marketing etc much, much easier, especially if it's tied to a biometric id such as fingerprint or retina so that only the card owner could use it. 

The recent nonsense about ticket allocations for the playoffs, for example, would have been much simpler for both clubs.

But as it's Scottish football I'm surprised I don't have to barter for my pie with shiny shells.

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1 hour ago, Templar Saint said:

From Saints website:

Season Ticket holders will receive a Season Ticket Card similar to any bankcard or credit card you may have. The encrypted card will hold all your contact details along with details of your reserved seat and your admission category (e.g. Adults, Senior Citizen, Junior etc).

When you arrive at the stadium for a match your card will be scanned by the turnstile operator to give you access to your chosen stand. If you present your card at the wrong stand, entry will not be permitted.

I rest my case.

Is there any explanation to how Ormond Stand season ticket holders will be able to use the other stands?

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6 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Is there any explanation to how Ormond Stand season ticket holders will be able to use the other stands?

Yes is the simple answer.

Check season ticket application form 2019/20 notes on right in red:

In order to maximise overall stadium capacity, the club reserves the right to relocate Ormond Stand Season Ticket holders to the West Stand and affected supporters will have an allocated seat in the west Stand.  Such relocation will be required at most midweek matches

So when the information is being encrypted for the Ormond Stand it will also show the West Stand information on the card - would be a fair assumption.

This may not suit some of the expert posters on here but that is the information coming from the club  in association with their partnering with Future Ticketing Ltd for the new online eTicketing system

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31 minutes ago, Templar Saint said:

Yes is the simple answer.

Check season ticket application form 2019/20 notes on right in red:

In order to maximise overall stadium capacity, the club reserves the right to relocate Ormond Stand Season Ticket holders to the West Stand and affected supporters will have an allocated seat in the west Stand.  Such relocation will be required at most midweek matches

So when the information is being encrypted for the Ormond Stand it will also show the West Stand information on the card - would be a fair assumption.

This may not suit some of the expert posters on here but that is the information coming from the club  in association with their partnering with Future Ticketing Ltd for the new online eTicketing system

OK, so my last post on the matter as it's reminding me of working for a company I hated. These systems in essence are really simple and we should be pleased that we're using it.

RFID chip > chip reader > network connection > database. The chip identifies the user. Information associated with user is on the database (e.g. name, seat number, birthday, shoe size ... whatever information you want really). Technically you can put more information on the chip, but that just puts the cost up for no real advantage. There will also be other databases, i.e. McDairmid seating inventory, and sales management tools. 

If the club want all Ormond stand users, or everyone with size 10 shoes, or whatever, to have access to the Main stand it should be a 5 second job, as should allocating seats as they are sold. All you need to do is change the appropriate data. The data isn't on the card. That would be like saying that all your current account information is 'on' your debit card.

Be as sarcastic as you like about 'expert posters', but I have actually specified and bought similar systems and what you have quoted from the club, is, basically, what @garydavidson and I are saying, with some extra stuff about encryption to make people feel secure and reassured.

The point is that this is a welcome move from the club and provided they have bought from a decent supplier and have a proper rollout plan, training etc this is very positive move for the club which I'm sure will provide a better fan experience and be a good investment.

Also seems to me that they are (sensibly) keeping some human operators at the turnstiles, at least until the system has bedded in, who would be able to manually open the gates if someone's made an arse of the database. 

So well done Saints. 

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9 hours ago, Widge said:

Given the lack of saints fans who go to games against the Glasgow teams it makes sense, especially from a financial point of view. Am I happy about having to relocate, no of course not, but for 3 games a season (4 max) in the league, if that extra £200k or whatever it is brings in a 15 goal a season striker and a push up the league then I’ll suffer in silence. Might actually help if all the saints fans are in the same stand as well. 

Im not sure itll happen as it would need to be announced prior to folk buying season tickets, then again it happened against Celtic in a game we won 2-1 a few years back and I don’t remember that being part of the season ticket pack either? 

If it's really £200k in the bank then I agree, probably worth it. Will be odd feeling like the away team at home games though.

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7 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Is there any explanation to how Ormond Stand season ticket holders will be able to use the other stands?

It will be exactly the same process as now but instead of a human eyeballing the season ticket it will be a computer confirming it is valid.

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10 hours ago, Templar Saint said:

From Saints website:

Season Ticket holders will receive a Season Ticket Card similar to any bankcard or credit card you may have. The encrypted card will hold all your contact details along with details of your reserved seat and your admission category (e.g. Adults, Senior Citizen, Junior etc).

When you arrive at the stadium for a match your card will be scanned by the turnstile operator to give you access to your chosen stand. If you present your card at the wrong stand, entry will not be permitted.

I rest my case.

You are taking that very literally. When the card is scanned that is the process of checking the database details match with the stand they are trying to enter as Valentino Bolognese has discussed.

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23 hours ago, HOODLUM65 said:

States in the letter that "If you present your card (the new Season Ticket  E-card ) at the wrong Stand , entry will not be permitted."

Must be a way round this when home fans are punted elsewhere.

Thanks to all for a full explanation.

 

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I understand the financial viewpoint here. I also get the sporting advantage issue. I think something else to consider though is would it put existing supporters off going to these games? Surely a primary concern of any business is looking after your current customers?

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31 minutes ago, Radford 72 said:

I understand the financial viewpoint here. I also get the sporting advantage issue. I think something else to consider though is would it put existing supporters off going to these games? Surely a primary concern of any business is looking after your current customers?

I expect that they have calculated the baseline and the potential maximum crowd sizes. 

It's a difficult one, but the wider point here is that if Saints fans turned up then there wouldn't be the extra seats to sell to away fans. 

I think it would be irresponsible to continue to have empty seats that could be sold, and the extra cash invested in the team. If that drives better performances and results then hopefully we will start to see demand increase, at which point we can reduce the away allocation again. 

But appreciate the point that in some respects it could be seen as giving up, or the thin end of the wedge. 

Edit - a thing to consider is that this is just the OF, for now. I don't take my boy to these games simply because the sectarian atmosphere is toxic. I understand this is what keeps the home crowds away. If the SFA had the balls to stand up to them and stamp this out, we'd not have a decision to make. To me, it feels like the bad guys are winning here. 

Edited by Valentino Bolognese

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39 minutes ago, Radford 72 said:

I understand the financial viewpoint here. I also get the sporting advantage issue. I think something else to consider though is would it put existing supporters off going to these games? Surely a primary concern of any business is looking after your current customers?

Yeah,difficult one. The way it is at the moment ,they have a huge advantage vocally so not sure them having 3 stands will make a huge difference.

I was always against moving mainly as it was a free for all where you will get a seat.

If they could guarantee a dedicated seat comparable with seat in East stand I wouldn't be too unhappy.

With this new system that should be easier as I am sure they could put your alternative seat on system.

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56 minutes ago, Radford 72 said:

I understand the financial viewpoint here. I also get the sporting advantage issue. I think something else to consider though is would it put existing supporters off going to these games? Surely a primary concern of any business is looking after your current customers?

The away fans are our current customers. 

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1 hour ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Edit - a thing to consider is that this is just the OF, for now. I don't take my boy to these games simply because the sectarian atmosphere is toxic. I understand this is what keeps the home crowds away. If the SFA had the balls to stand up to them and stamp this out, we'd not have a decision to make. To me, it feels like the bad guys are winning here. 

I get that but any SFA intervention wouldn't stop them being absolute knobs outside the ground (which, I thought, was the reason people didn't attend). Maybe I'm in a minority here but I've never been particularly offended by the singing...probably because I don't care enough about what they're singing.

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1 hour ago, Radford 72 said:

I understand the financial viewpoint here. I also get the sporting advantage issue. I think something else to consider though is would it put existing supporters off going to these games? Surely a primary concern of any business is looking after your current customers?

 As we all know, the last time this was done cost the club 100’s of fans who were disgusted at being treated as second class citizens at their own stadium.

There used to be a bus of between 20 and 30 fans travelling between Crieff and McD picking up in Methven. The impact was suddenly less than 10 fans and became a financial disaster to run it anymore. Repeat this across the region and easy to see why so many fans are no longer coming to games and a repeat will disenfranchise another group of fans.

How will they allocate seats? Will they have staff going round and putting reserved stickers on each seat for these games and then removing them afterwards? Previously it was just a free for all as you always had people saying I sit here all season and I’m not moving etc.

As I have said elsewhere, why not give them both ends of the main stand and just move the few season ticket holders at the Ormond end?

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34 minutes ago, Tranmere Saintee said:

As I have said elsewhere, why not give them both ends of the main stand and just move the few season ticket holders at the Ormond end?

Would that leave enough room for the wheelchair users that would be displaced? 

"There are 8 wheelchair spaces available in the Main Stand plus another 11 in the East Stand."

It would be the best solution as the main stand is fairly well divided by the padded seats/executive area so having all the Saints fans in there isn't the best.

Edited by garydavidson

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