David123

Player contracts and transfers

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1 hour ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Because he's past it and will be too expensive. It would be very poor value for the risk involved, and TW is good at getting value.

Can we please just bin this talk as it's making me nervous.

Could you not have said the same for Swanson, O'Halloran, Craig, Watt, etc. etc. when they were signed for the club?

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13 minutes ago, Linky said:

Could you not have said the same for Swanson, O'Halloran, Craig, Watt, etc. etc. when they were signed for the club?

Not really, all different and much cheaper, and neither Swanson not Watt have worked out, MOH has taken months to get back to form and fitness and has arguably only had 1 good game for us. I do expect him to kick on based on recent form but he could just as easily go backwards, and at the time of writing he's not been great value. 

Craig wasn't the disaster after he left that May has been at Aberdeen. 

Everyone has an opinion but I think that @ScottMann's comment is on the money. I think it's rose-tinted specs.

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4 hours ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Why though?

Seriously, absolute mince all season, we should have cash, have had 2 great successes with new players (not returnees).

I want to see fresh blood in the team, continue with the rebuild.  

I just think it's a situation Tommy will be monitoring very closely, and given May's history with us I think he'd be negligent not to.

Personally I think May and Saints are the right fit for each other and both parties would get a boost out of him coming back here, and Tommy is a manager who knows how to get the best out of him (although, that being said, I do have a worry that a big part of May's success with us last time came from having Macca alongside him).

Yes, he's been poor for Aberdeen (partly due to being played out of position, from what I've read), but many of Saints' best signings have been players we've given chances to who have shown promise in the past but lost their way at bigger/higher clubs. Let's face it - if he was banging in goals left, right and centre for Aberdeen, we wouldn't be in with a sniff of getting him - that's just Saints' place in the world. I see people saying we need to sign a 15-20 goal striker, but we're highly unlikely to just pluck an on-form prolific goalscorer from another club. We need to carry on doing what we've done in the past, when we've picked up strikers like Watt, Macca, Sandaza, Scotland, Sheridan, Samuel, Scotland, etc.

Out of interest, who do people think are the better options than May, who are realistically gettable, and who would be more likely to score 15-plus goals for us?

None of this is to say I think we'll sign May this summer, but I do think it will happen eventually.

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Absolutely get the argument. Nothing wrong with picking up out of favour, but talented, players on the cheap. It's very savvy for  club of our size.

I see this as different as he's not just a bit out of form, or been poor, he's been utterly dreadful. From what I've seen there's almost no sign of his previous talent. 

And secondly, as others have said, he won't be cheap. 

I can't answer the 'who else' question - that's why we have scouts. I doubt any Saints fan would have mentioned the name 'Drey Wright' this time last year. But I am opposed to May's return unless he's so cheap he's virtually free.

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57 minutes ago, Linky said:

Could you not have said the same for Swanson, O'Halloran, Craig, Watt, etc. etc. when they were signed for the club?

How much did they cost?

May was signed for just shy of half a million, and is still contracted at Aberdeen.

We wont be buying him permanently this Summer.

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54 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I just think it's a situation Tommy will be monitoring very closely, and given May's history with us I think he'd be negligent not to.

Personally I think May and Saints are the right fit for each other and both parties would get a boost out of him coming back here, and Tommy is a manager who knows how to get the best out of him (although, that being said, I do have a worry that a big part of May's success with us last time came from having Macca alongside him).

Yes, he's been poor for Aberdeen (partly due to being played out of position, from what I've read), but many of Saints' best signings have been players we've given chances to who have shown promise in the past but lost their way at bigger/higher clubs. Let's face it - if he was banging in goals left, right and centre for Aberdeen, we wouldn't be in with a sniff of getting him - that's just Saints' place in the world. I see people saying we need to sign a 15-20 goal striker, but we're highly unlikely to just pluck an on-form prolific goalscorer from another club. We need to carry on doing what we've done in the past, when we've picked up strikers like Watt, Macca, Sandaza, Scotland, Sheridan, Samuel, Scotland, etc.

Out of interest, who do people think are the better options than May, who are realistically gettable, and who would be more likely to score 15-plus goals for us?

None of this is to say I think we'll sign May this summer, but I do think it will happen eventually.

I think it will happen eventually too but we shouldn't be bending over backwards reaching for an expensive player who failed to score a goal from open play in the league all season. 

Being honest I've not looked at what other players are available but there will be guys out there who have scored more goals whilst playing at a comparable level to May who will likely be cheaper, both in terms of a fee and the wages we'd have to pay to get him in. 

From what I've seen, he still puts in a power of work and creates space for others but he looks a lot slower than he did with us and he seems to go to bits when he gets near the opposition goal.

I agree with your in respect  of the influence Maclean had on May, which probably means we'd need to sign another player to play alongside him to get the best out of him. Theres are a few experienced strikers with a good pedigree out of contract this summer who could do that role, although I highly doubt they'd be anywhere near as good as Macca. Guys like Boyd or Doolan (don't laugh) potentially.

 

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May certainly benefitted from playing alongside Macca and was never a great success at Wednesday even before his injury.

Some players just work well together.

Must be a striker available somewhere as Motherwell always seem to find a replacement who scores regularly. Why can't we?

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Ok - we'll wait and see I suppose.

My original point wasn't that he would be a good signing (although I think Tommy could turn things around with him as he's done for others), but that I'd be very surprised if Tommy wasn't even asking McInnes about him. It's a formula that we've seen before: let someone leave for a bigger team, wait for their career to stall, take them back (with varying degrees of success).

Having said that, there is no way the Chairman would pay a fee. But, a years loan? I wouldn't rule it out.

Edited by Linky

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May has done nothing since leaving Saints. He was magnificent 5 or 6 years ago, but he is dreadful now. You can't let emotions guide your thinking. The club has clearly identified that we need a quality striker. To follow that up by signing May shows a lack of rational  calculation in thinking.

"What do we need goals...let's sign someone who doesn't score"....not great business sense for me.

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6 minutes ago, Havana Saint said:

"What do we need goals...let's sign someone who doesn't score"....not great business sense for me.

Possibly true, but can you really see us going out and signing someone who is currently on form and has just finished a prolific season? We're not realistically going to attract a prolific goalscorer from any of Scotland's top two leagues, or England's top 4 (even 5) leagues, so that leaves you with what? Looking to Ireland again? That hasn't really worked with Cummins and MacMillan. Or we could take a chance on one of the trialists always floating around from the continent, but that doesn't seem to be Tommy's style. So unless we're willing to take a chance on someone who basically needs to use us to turn their career around (not necessarily May), then I don't really see what the strategy is going to be.

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19 minutes ago, Norsaint said:

Yes. Been released. Not sure that I agree with this?

Why?  He's been here for 3 seasons and has never nailed down a regular place.  Time to move on both for club and player.

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27 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Possibly true, but can you really see us going out and signing someone who is currently on form and has just finished a prolific season? We're not realistically going to attract a prolific goalscorer from any of Scotland's top two leagues, or England's top 4 (even 5) leagues, so that leaves you with what? Looking to Ireland again? That hasn't really worked with Cummins and MacMillan. Or we could take a chance on one of the trialists always floating around from the continent, but that doesn't seem to be Tommy's style. So unless we're willing to take a chance on someone who basically needs to use us to turn their career around (not necessarily May), then I don't really see what the strategy is going to be.

There's a world outside your window a famous song once said:

As has been previously pointed out by other users  we don't need to break the bank, just be more creative. Motherwell have recruited very well in this area historically. Limiting our market to solely Scottish or Irish players is extremely insular and as you rightly identify  - limits the quality available.

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47 minutes ago, Abernethy Saint said:

Alston’s away apparently.

*shrug*

33 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Possibly true, but can you really see us going out and signing someone who is currently on form and has just finished a prolific season? We're not realistically going to attract a prolific goalscorer from any of Scotland's top two leagues, or England's top 4 (even 5) leagues, so that leaves you with what? Looking to Ireland again? That hasn't really worked with Cummins and MacMillan. Or we could take a chance on one of the trialists always floating around from the continent, but that doesn't seem to be Tommy's style. So unless we're willing to take a chance on someone who basically needs to use us to turn their career around (not necessarily May), then I don't really see what the strategy is going to be.

Kane Hemmings is wanting to leave Notts County after their relegation, and talk from their fans seem to suggest he could be got for a five figure fee as they need to fill the bank to cope with the drop out the league system.

If we're spending money he'd be a better investment than May.

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31 minutes ago, jhq said:

Why?  He's been here for 3 seasons and has never nailed down a regular place.  Time to move on both for club and player.

Only that he is the only midfielder at the club that can score more than 2 goals a season. Otherwise he is average.

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51 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Possibly true, but can you really see us going out and signing someone who is currently on form and has just finished a prolific season? We're not realistically going to attract a prolific goalscorer from any of Scotland's top two leagues, or England's top 4 (even 5) leagues, so that leaves you with what? Looking to Ireland again? That hasn't really worked with Cummins and MacMillan. Or we could take a chance on one of the trialists always floating around from the continent, but that doesn't seem to be Tommy's style. So unless we're willing to take a chance on someone who basically needs to use us to turn their career around (not necessarily May), then I don't really see what the strategy is going to be.

You don't think that we could attract players from the 4th or 5th tiers in England? With a reasonable chance of top 6, an outside chance of European football, probability of the later stages of cups,  regularly televised games and frequent games in front of 50,000 crowds?

Even our poor gates are comparable with the lower quarter of the 3rd tier in England, plus we get the extras I've mentioned and you don't have to live in shithole like Gillingham or Scunthorpe.* 

Transfermarkt values the SPL at 210m EUR, which is 30% higher than English League 1. Now of course this is top-weighted but it's a fact. 

With the wages we have freed up this year I expect us to be able to buy better than we have for many years as we don't have quite as many places to fill so I'm hoping for quality over quantity. 

Honestly, I fully appreciate our place in the pecking order but we're not as wee a club as some supporters believe. We do pay relatively low wages but for a player in any of the English Leagues below Championship we are at least worth looking at. If I'm a talented player/agent that's looking for exposure, where better than the top division in Scotland? Let's face it if the standard is as poor as some seem to think then even if I'm half decent I'll be getting massive coverage. 

And all that's before looking to the continent. Frankly I can't see any reason we should go shopping in Scotland, at least not as first option. 

 

 

*to be clear I've never knowingly been to either these places. They might be lovely. I doubt it. 

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39 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

You don't think that we could attract players from the 4th or 5th tiers in England? With a reasonable chance of top 6, an outside chance of European football, probability of the later stages of cups,  regularly televised games and frequent games in front of 50,000 crowds?

Even our poor gates are comparable with the lower quarter of the 3rd tier in England, plus we get the extras I've mentioned and you don't have to live in shithole like Gillingham or Scunthorpe.* 

Transfermarkt values the SPL at 210m EUR, which is 30% higher than English League 1. Now of course this is top-weighted but it's a fact. 

With the wages we have freed up this year I expect us to be able to buy better than we have for many years as we don't have quite as many places to fill so I'm hoping for quality over quantity. 

Honestly, I fully appreciate our place in the pecking order but we're not as wee a club as some supporters believe. We do pay relatively low wages but for a player in any of the English Leagues below Championship we are at least worth looking at. If I'm a talented player/agent that's looking for exposure, where better than the top division in Scotland? Let's face it if the standard is as poor as some seem to think then even if I'm half decent I'll be getting massive coverage. 

And all that's before looking to the continent. Frankly I can't see any reason we should go shopping in Scotland, at least not as first option. 

 

 

*to be clear I've never knowingly been to either these places. They might be lovely. I doubt it. 

Hopefully the contact that brought us Wright & Kennedy can unearth another gem or 2 for us.

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1 hour ago, Norsaint said:

Only that he is the only midfielder at the club that can score more than 2 goals a season. Otherwise he is average.

Im not sure thats fair on the other players.

Central midfield goals since Alston joined

Murray Davidson - 11

Liam Craig - 11

Blair Alston - 9

Ross Callachan - 1

Matty Willock - 1

Paul Paton - 1

------------------------------------------

David Wotherspoon - 13

 

Wotherspoon was added as hes arguably the player Alston is competing with for a place in the squad. This season was Alstons most productive in terms of goals (4).

Edited by RandomGuy

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1 minute ago, RandomGuy said:

Im not sure thats fair on the other players.

Central midfield goals since Alston joined

Murray Davidson - 11

Liam Craig - 11

Blair Alston - 9

Ross Callachan

Matty Willock - 1

Paul Paton - 1

------------------------------------------

David Wotherspoon - 13

 

Wotherspoon was added as hes arguably the player Alston is competing with for a place in the squad. This season was Alstons most productive in terms of goals (4).

Didn't Callachan score at Tynecastle?

As for Alston he's not been the standout player we've wanted and I can see Tommy's reasoning, but Alston has also never gone into hiding and contributed a helluva lot more than some of the "star" players (e.g. Swanson).

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4 minutes ago, templeofsaints said:

Didn't Callachan score at Tynecastle?

As for Alston he's not been the standout player we've wanted and I can see Tommy's reasoning, but Alston has also never gone into hiding and contributed a helluva lot more than some of the "star" players (e.g. Swanson).

Aye, ive missed out the 1 next to Callachan.

Alston is a fine player, but Wotherspoon contributes more in multiple positions, despite the hysteria that surrounds him. Alston had an incredible habit of allowing players to run off him when he played centrally, but that seems ignored because he scored a good goal.

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Guest ScottMann

Tommy presumably had his doubts about Alston last season as he only got the one year contract. Blair obviously just didn't do enough this time to justify another one. These things happen.

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Can understand the thinking regarding letting Alston go,  if it opens up opportunities to be on the bench for McLean and McCann.  Blair has a lot of technical ability and did okay for Saints over his time here, without consistently hitting the heights.  Scored some spectacular goals for us.

Felt he was very unlucky to be dropped out of the picture this season when he was doing well, especially with the ultimately flawed introduction of Goss.

Could see him going to Dundee or Utd and doing well, as I'd imagine they'll be able to pay better wages than much of the bottom six?  Could work out well for him as well, as he's now at an age where he should be a regular starter rather than a squad player.

All the best to him wherever he ends up.

 

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5 hours ago, jhq said:

Why?  He's been here for 3 seasons and has never nailed down a regular place.  Time to move on both for club and player.

Exactly this..

The writing has been on the wall for Alston since September/October last year.

He played in all 6 matches in our winless streak including both the 5-1 thumping from Rangers and 6-0 embarrassment by Celtic and was dropped immediately after and didn’t reappear until 7 matches later...

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