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Dave Ferg

St Johnstone v Rangers 22/9/19 (12.15 KO)

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Is there any other club who would have the top 5 teams in their league in their first 6 games?

Celtic (last season finished 1) away. 

Rangers (2) home. 

Killie (3) home.

Aberdeen (4) and Hibs (5) away.

And Livi  (9) home.

Helluva a start to a season!  

20190923_101432.jpg

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13 minutes ago, Dave H said:

Is there any other club who would have the top 5 teams in their league in their first 6 games?

Celtic (last season finished 1) away. 

Rangers (2) home. 

Killie (3) home.

Aberdeen (4) and Hibs (5) away.

And Livi  (9) home.

Helluva a start to a season!  

20190923_101432.jpg

Exactly. Been a shocking set of fixtures. Most disappointing result for me has been Killie.

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1 hour ago, tucker said:

Let's be honest,one win almost puts us in the top six, saints will come good,I'm betting,Wright starts on Saturday

Not sure Wright looked fit on Saturday. Certainly not for 90 mins. Have my doubts that Ralston is up to speed yet so both on right may not work.

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16 hours ago, Jimmy Wallace said:

Genuinely surprised anyone can find a reason not to pay respects to someone who has succumbed to such a nasty disease.  I understand what you are trying to say Random, but afraid I can’t agree, especially, as Soulful stated on radio yesterday, given one of our own legends (Don McVicar) also suffered horribly from MND.

And believe me Don Mcvicar was as much of a **** as Fernando was before he contracted that horrible illness. I've first hand experience of it.

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Yesterday was the first full Saints game I've seen this season (for the other games so far I've only seen the Sportscene highlights). In the first half I thought we were OK and seemed to be growing into the game, and had MOH taken his chance I think we may have had a very different match on our hands. But we do look incredibly fragile at the back - Tanser is a player I really like, especially going forward, but he often seems to struggle defensively against the OF; Kerr and Gordon are both great prospects but personally I feel we need more experience in central defence and we just haven't looked the same at the back ever since Shaughnessy's head was turned. And I know this won't be popular but I thought Clark could have done better with both of the first two goals yesterday and it's not the first time this season that I've felt there seem to be shots going past him that to me look saveable.

May worked his arse off but it's incredibly frustrating to see him having to spend the match miles away from any team-mate and having to try to chase down the opposition defence largely on his own. He had a very thankless job to do yesterday but he did it as best he could. I just couldn't see any situation arising during that game where he was ever likely to get the ball anywhere near the goal. Whatever formation we're playing, I think something needs to be done to get our other players closer to him in support or we're just not going to get any return.

That all said, despite our league position I'm not especially worried about us at the moment. We've had a killer of a fixture list to open the season, but I think Wright's done well in the transfer market and at this stage it would potentially only take one win to put us up to 8th in the table (just look at how Hearts jumped up the league after getting their first win yesterday).

FWIW I agree with Random's point about the minute's silence, by the way. Had it been Rangers' first game since Ricksen died then it would be completely understandable, but if it's the case that they've already had one for him at Ibrox, it's a bit odd to do it again at an away game. I can't remember any previous situation where a minute's silence has been held for someone at a team's home game, and then held again at their next away game. If it had been a player from any other club outside the OF, it just wouldn't have happened.

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1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

Kerr and Gordon are both great prospects but personally I feel we need more experience in central defence

I completely agree been saying it even though we Vihmann. He is only 23 and has little major league experience but he has played 19 times for Estonia.  Estonia have conceded 18 goals in this 5 Euro qualifying games this year. Looks familiar. I do not know who recommended Vihmann but like Kerr and Gordon he may be a good prospect. However it is not prospects we need especially 3 of them. 

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I feel Clark,Gordon and Kerr are all overrated by a number of people on this Forum.  Over the past 5/6 seasons we   have been very fortunate to have had several good quality/experienced defenders at the club and this gave the rest of a pretty average team a good platform to play from . This is no  longer the case and we are giving  away loads of very soft goals . Instead of signing so many wide /midfield players we should have been bringing a couple of  decent experienced defenders  to steady the ship. Hope I am wrong but I do not see Saints ever getting decent fees  for Clark  or Kerr as I feel they are both no better than average players despite Tommy talking them up in the press from time to time. 

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20 hours ago, Abernethy Saint said:

Best wishes to you and your wife. That’s terrible news. 

Random, just for once, shut the feck up, eh?

Many thanks for your kind words Abernethy very much appreciated.

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3 hours ago, callander saint said:

I feel Clark,Gordon and Kerr are all overrated by a number of people on this Forum.  Over the past 5/6 seasons we   have been very fortunate to have had several good quality/experienced defenders at the club and this gave the rest of a pretty average team a good platform to play from . This is no  longer the case and we are giving  away loads of very soft goals . Instead of signing so many wide /midfield players we should have been bringing a couple of  decent experienced defenders  to steady the ship. Hope I am wrong but I do not see Saints ever getting decent fees  for Clark  or Kerr as I feel they are both no better than average players despite Tommy talking them up in the press from time to time. 

Tend to agree. Zander appears to have regressed. Infuriating that he won’t/can’t catch and won’t barge through forwards. Jason I’m sure will develop but he’s not the £8m rated defender on a par with Aberdeen players some have said, at least not on current form. Gordon is more akin to the no nonsense defender we were used to and I prefer that approach to Kerr’s. But let them develop and see how they go. They’re not Fraz, Ando or Cuptie with years of experience. One day they will be, hopefully with us in the top league.

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29 minutes ago, andrew said:

But let them develop and see how they go.

How long do we let them develop if continue to concede goals? 

We will have to let them develop until the January transfer window but god knows what position we will be in by then

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8 minutes ago, Johnny B said:

How long do we let them develop if continue to concede goals? 

We will have to let them develop until the January transfer window but god knows what position we will be in by then

January isn’t too long. Soon see how we get on. Defend from the front too, it’s a whole team job. Get organised better as in don’t leave one man back against good players. Clear the ball better. Improve some of the basics.

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41 minutes ago, Johnny B said:

How long do we let them develop if continue to concede goals? 

We will have to let them develop until the January transfer window but god knows what position we will be in by then

Its six games into the season, we've played five of last seasons top six, including games away to Celtic Park, Pittodrie and Easter Road, and even after all that we're within 2pts of four teams.

You're speaking as if we're miles adrift after half a season FFS.

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Forgetting about the rights or wrongs of the minutes silence followed by the minutes applause, the irony was these sub-humans then singing songs about catholic’s dying!!

Plus my 10 year old granddaughter, one of the ball girls yesterday and was subjected to their obnoxious behaviour when passing the north stand being called ‘a fart arsed wee ****’. How they can think that is acceptable behaviour along with standing in Tesco car park peeing against cars is beyond me.

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Clark is one that bothers me. I know it won't be popular, but too often he shovels the ball back in the box for another player to tap in. Call me old school,  but a big unit like him should command the 6yd box. Push the ball out of play, not allow follow-ups. TW is a goalie, i question his technique. 

Edited by Melbourne Saint

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22 minutes ago, Melbourne Saint said:

Clark is one that bothers me. I know it won't be popular, but too often he shovels the ball back in the box for another player to tap in. Call me old school,  but a big unit like him should command the 6yd box. Push the ball out of play, not allow follow-ups. TW is a goalie, i question his technique. 

It is said that its Tommy that stopped him coming off his line.

When he came back from QoS he was commanding his area & I thought if he continued to improve he was a cert for Scotland.

Over the last 2 seasons he just seems to be getting gradually poorer. Unfortunately the other 2 goalies are worse.

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Clark used to always come out, miss the ball, and have to be rescued. I'd rather he stayed on his line and tried to make the save if he's unsure, although there needs to be a mix to when he comes and when he doesn't.

He definitely palms too many balls back into danger though.

Not sure why he's being targeted after the match, he made at lease two incredible saves and I wouldn't blame him at all for any of the four.

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13 hours ago, Dave H said:

Is there any other club who would have the top 5 teams in their league in their first 6 games?

Celtic (last season finished 1) away. 

Rangers (2) home. 

Killie (3) home.

Aberdeen (4) and Hibs (5) away.

And Livi  (9) home.

Helluva a start to a season!  

20190923_101432.jpg

True. 

Add a heavy slice of a disastrous League Cup campaign and an inept pre season and the picture is a lot clearer.

Think the only clean sheet we have achieved since mid July was against Brechin City who sit bottom of League Two.

An immediate run of clean sheets is imperative.

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2 hours ago, Tranmere Saintee said:

Forgetting about the rights or wrongs of the minutes silence followed by the minutes applause, the irony was these sub-humans then singing songs about catholic’s dying!!

Plus my 10 year old granddaughter, one of the ball girls yesterday and was subjected to their obnoxious behaviour when passing the north stand being called ‘a fart arsed wee ****’. How they can think that is acceptable behaviour along with standing in Tesco car park peeing against cars is beyond me.

Scotland's shame.

Terrible to hear what your granddaughter was subjected to - hope she is OK. Their behaviour and hatred is on a different planet. Disgusting.

 

Edited by Havana Saint

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13 hours ago, Dave H said:

Is there any other club who would have the top 5 teams in their league in their first 6 games? 

20190923_101432.jpg

Worth comparing it to the likes of County, who have only played Hearts and Aberdeen from last seasons top half, and managed just a 0-0 and a 3-0 loss.

If you make a table looking solely at results against last seasons bottom six (including County), and instead of GD you value the less games played the better, it looks like...

1. Celtic - Played: 3, Won: 3, Points: 9

2. Rangers - Played: 3, Won: 3, Points: 9

3. Ross County - Played: 4, Won: 3, Points: 

4. Aberdeen - Played: 4, Won: 2, Points: 

5. Livingston - Played: 4, Won: 2, Points: 8

6. Kilmarnock - Played: 2, Won: 1, Points: 

7. Motherwell - Played: 3, Won: 1, Points: 

8. Hearts - Played: 3, Won: 0, Points: 2

9. St Johnstone - Played: 1, Won: 0, Points: 1

10/11/12 - Hamilton/Hibernian/St Mirren - Played: 3, Won: 0, Points: 1

Puts things in perspective.

Even better if you look it in terms of "Points Per Game"...

1/2 - Celtic/Rangers - 3

3. Ross County - 2.25

4/5/6 - Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Livingston - 2

7. Motherwell - 1.3

8. St Johnstone - 1

9. Hearts - 0.66

10/11/12 - Hamilton/Hibernian/St Mirren - 0.33

The fixture list has definitely been against us so far.

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5 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Worth comparing it to the likes of County, who have only played Hearts and Aberdeen from last seasons top half, and managed just a 0-0 and a 3-0 loss.

If you make a table looking solely at results against last seasons bottom six (including County), and instead of GD you value the less games played the better, it looks like...

1. Celtic - Played: 3, Won: 3, Points: 9

2. Rangers - Played: 3, Won: 3, Points: 9

3. Ross County - Played: 4, Won: 3, Points: 

4. Aberdeen - Played: 4, Won: 2, Points: 

5. Livingston - Played: 4, Won: 2, Points: 8

6. Kilmarnock - Played: 2, Won: 1, Points: 

7. Motherwell - Played: 3, Won: 1, Points: 

8. Hearts - Played: 3, Won: 0, Points: 2

9. St Johnstone - Played: 1, Won: 0, Points: 1

10/11/12 - Hamilton/Hibernian/St Mirren - Played: 3, Won: 0, Points: 1

Puts things in perspective.

Even better if you look it in terms of "Points Per Game"...

1/2 - Celtic/Rangers - 3

3. Ross County - 2.25

4/5/6 - Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Livingston - 2

7. Motherwell - 1.3

8. St Johnstone - 1

9. Hearts - 0.66

10/11/12 - Hamilton/Hibernian/St Mirren - 0.33

The fixture list has definitely been against us so far.

Good tables but that is not how relegation is decided and I will bet it will not be the same top 6  this season as last season. All this shows is that you that you are trying to make a positive out a bad situation. Let's wait and see how our next 6 games go. Then revisit your tables, I hope they show us near the top.

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14 hours ago, Johnny B said:

How long do we let them develop if continue to concede goals? 

We will have to let them develop until the January transfer window but god knows what position we will be in by then

There needs to be a pathway, they need room to develop and they will. We will not be relegated this season and that'll be another 40 games under their belt.

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10 hours ago, Havana Saint said:

Scotland's shame.

Terrible to hear what your granddaughter was subjected to - hope she is OK. Their behaviour and hatred is on a different planet. Disgusting.

 

Thanks Havana, luckily she is a very sensible, tough little cookie who I think was more upset by the fact she couldn’t identify who it was and go and confront them.

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11 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Clark used to always come out, miss the ball, and have to be rescued. I'd rather he stayed on his line and tried to make the save if he's unsure, although there needs to be a mix to when he comes and when he doesn't.

He definitely palms too many balls back into danger though.

Not sure why he's being targeted after the match, he made at lease two incredible saves and I wouldn't blame him at all for any of the four.

As long as Clark (or whoever) is consistent in what they're going to do, that's fine for me. If he's going to stay on his line and punch most of the crosses then the defenders know what to expect.

I think he's better than most in our league and that's probably a pretty decent level for us to have. 

 

Edited by Papa Jack

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After seeing the fixture list I thought realistically we could expect 3 points from our first 6 games...and that was from  Livingston.  We are definitely are a team in transition. After holding Sevco until half time I allowed myself to think we may scrape a draw. Sadly not to be... seeing the players celebrate at Hibs, I have no doubt they want to win.

Confidence is a big part of our problem I think. Tactics too, no point in playing Stevie as a lone striker it will never work and is unfair to him. Plenty good players, but please, although Tanser has improved he’s not a defender!! 

I’m not panicking yet! A win is imperative in our next game!! 

Maybe after Saturday I’ll change my mind! 

COYS 

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