St Mirren v St Johnstone Saturday 19th October

[rik2304]

7 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Almost every club, and manager, in the top flight doesnt start with a 4-4-2, including the best two.

Its clearly nowhere near this wonderfully effective attacking formation that everyone paints at is. Yesterday we went 4-4-2, and minutes later the spare man St Mirren had in midfield, since we no longer had the same numbers, was left in acres of space in the box for a cut back. An incident which didnt come close to happening before the formation change. The only chance we had after going to 4-4-2 was Kennedy from 30 yards after he beat a couple of players on his own, as the huge gaps in the middle of the park meant we could build anything centrally.

But yes, every manager is missing out on some great trick by not doing it, as it guarantees you victory and glory.

No need to be condescending RG. Folk are just desperate for the team to sort itself out and see the 442 as an uncomplicated system that gets some kind of partner for May up top. 

We all know he's most effective playing in a partnership.

[RandomGuy]

21 minutes ago, rik2304 said:

No need to be condescending RG. Folk are just desperate for the team to sort itself out and see the 442 as an uncomplicated system that gets some kind of partner for May up top. 

We all know he's most effective playing in a partnership.

It's just frustrating as hell that the players seem totally immune to criticism and the formation gets the blame. The second half yesterday was pathetic, completely ****ing pathetic, from the players, a total lack of effort and it had nothing to do with the formation.

Yet on here we've got everyone claiming moving one player a wee bit further forward, but keeping the same spineless lot on the pitch, and everything will be all lovely again.

The soil is rotten, so it doesnt matter where you plant the tree.

[Gas Monkey]

8 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

It's just frustrating as hell that the players seem totally immune to criticism and the formation gets the blame. The second half yesterday was pathetic, completely ****ing pathetic, from the players, a total lack of effort and it had nothing to do with the formation.

Yet on here we've got everyone claiming moving one player a wee bit further forward, but keeping the same spineless lot on the pitch, and everything will be all lovely again.

The soil is rotten, so it doesnt matter where you plant the tree.

Agreed! And we keep hearing from TW this is the best squad ever assembled under his reign! That’s just deluded. Worst defence I have seen in decades, a completely unbalanced midfield and a strike force of May, Kane and Hendry? This squad is a complete howler and that is his fault. It’s time to push sentiment aside, he can’t save us from the direction we are heading in, BBC interview yesterday confirmed he has run out of ideas. 

[Dave H]

Argh!   If's and but's and penalty misses this season to date results in stress!   One thing guaranteed now, we are still bottom after the next game.  Soon to be a drift at this rate.  Will it take another 9 games to get another 4 points? Who knows!

Edited October 20, 2019 by Dave H

[RandomGuy]

3 minutes ago, Dave H said:

Argh!   If's and but's and penalty misses this season to date results in stress!   One thing guaranteed now, we are still bottom after the next game.  Soon to be a drift at this rate.  

It doesnt matter about being adrift, or what other clubs are doing. You dont survive in the league without getting at least 36 points, unless you share a league with two other abysmal sides.

Just now I cant see two worse sides, so we'll need to get over 36 to survive. We need at least 32 points from the next 29 games. If we manage that, we'll stay up.

[Dave H]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy said:

It doesnt matter about being adrift, or what other clubs are doing. You dont survive in the league without getting at least 36 points, unless you share a league with two other abysmal sides.

Just now I cant see two worse sides, so we'll need to get over 36 to survive. We need at least 32 points from the next 29 games. If we manage that, we'll stay up.

9 points each quarter then..

[RandomGuy]

2 minutes ago, Dave H said:

9 points each quarter then..

Easiest way I remember it is if you have a point per game overall, then you're highly likely to survive. So right now we're 5 behind where we need to be. 

It's hard to do but we probably just need to concentrate on ourselves and that point tally, and stop worrying about how far behind we are the teams around us. 

[Linky]

We started well, but as soon as they scored, that was it. We forgot the basics from then onwards. Clark is a liability with crosses, and they knew it. They started to surround Kennedy whenever he got the ball, which left him with no options.

Once again, it’s sad to see a game which we started with such promise end like that. It feels like every game right now was lost over the summer, it’s just now being played out. We were fighting a losing battle from the start, when morale was so low after the cup exit.

We can turn it around, but the longer it goes on, the harder it is.

Other teams seem to do the basics much better than us: set-pieces, route one when needed, crossing. We always need a spark of genius from Swanson or Kennedy to get a goal & you can’t rely on that.

[Indicator]

A few observations... as an outsider looking in.

On 10/19/2019 at 2:16 PM, Cagey said:

All those changes. Is Tommy trying to keep players happy ?. I know we didn't win last week but we should have so why the changes ?.

 

On 10/19/2019 at 2:34 PM, Johnny B said:

With him trying to resign Kennedy, Wright and possibly Holt, he has no option but to keep them happy.

The Catch-22 being that if that policy results in relegation they're hardly likely to re-sign.

 

1 hour ago, Stumpy1966 said:

I don’t know why you’re picking on Davidson. The team played great at county without Holt you bring him back in then blame Muzz.

 

49 minutes ago, Wendy Saints said:

To be honest I think our biggest problem is Tommy not picking the same team 2 weeks running.. 

Do the loanees come with the caveat that they have to played if fit?? Surely not.

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Indicator

[Cagey]

42 minutes ago, Indicator said:

A few observations... as an outsider looking in.

 

The Catch-22 being that if that policy results in relegation they're hardly likely to re-sign.

 

 

Do the loanees come with the caveat that they have to played if fit?? Surely not.

 

Might depend on the team or conditions set. It doesn't seem to be the case with Saints loanees as some don't get game time.

[garydavidson]

10 hours ago, Indicator said:

Do the loanees come with the caveat that they have to played if fit?? Surely not.

After his first game this forum hailed Holt as the best player at the club, this week he is one of the worst. Sure that will change again before the wind does.

[tucker]

Hope Liam comes back in against Hamilton need his fighting spirit ,also would like to see a new experienced centre half must be a decent free agent.callum booth should start for Tanser be poor like rest, time to play parish as well

[Saint Paul]

There is a lot of talk about the formation and whether we should go to 4-4-2, however, given how soft we appear at the centre of defence, would it be worthwhile putting in an extra central defender and going to 5-4-1, and be hard to beat first, before anything else ?

We brought in the lad from Estonia, so why not put him in alongside Duffy and Kerr ?  Ralston and Tanser can push on to give width when need be.  I would like us to line up:

                        Clark

             Kerr, Vihman, Duffy

Ralston           Craig                Tanser

                  Holt        McCann

                         May

 

May be seen as a bit negative, but I think that we need to get confidence back in the defence, and a couple of 0-0 draws playing like this may give them the confidence back, so that we can then look at tinkering with it to bring some of the flair players back in.  We would move to a 5-3-1-1 and push one of the central midfielders into the hole and use Kennedy or Swanson in that role.

Just think that we need to get back to being hard to beat, first and foremost.

 

[Cagey]

6 minutes ago, Saint Paul said:

There is a lot of talk about the formation and whether we should go to 4-4-2, however, given how soft we appear at the centre of defence, would it be worthwhile putting in an extra central defender and going to 5-4-1, and be hard to beat first, before anything else ?

We brought in the lad from Estonia, so why not put him in alongside Duffy and Kerr ?  Ralston and Tanser can push on to give width when need be.  I would like us to line up:

                        Clark

             Kerr, Vihman, Duffy

Ralston           Craig                Tanser

                  Holt        McCann

                         May

 

May be seen as a bit negative, but I think that we need to get confidence back in the defence, and a couple of 0-0 draws playing like this may give them the confidence back, so that we can then look at tinkering with it to bring some of the flair players back in.  We would move to a 5-3-1-1 and push one of the central midfielders into the hole and use Kennedy or Swanson in that role.

Just think that we need to get back to being hard to beat, first and foremost.

 

Playing with 10 might just work as we have done well in the past with a man sent off.

[Saint Paul]

52 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Playing with 10 might just work as we have done well in the past with a man sent off.

Whoops !! Missed Davidson beside Craig 

[rik2304]

The less defending that Tanser has to do the better. 

He's much more effective going forward.

[Johnny B]

3 hours ago, Saint Paul said:

There is a lot of talk about the formation and whether we should go to 4-4-2, however, given how soft we appear at the centre of defence, would it be worthwhile putting in an extra central defender and going to 5-4-1, and be hard to beat first, before anything else ?

We brought in the lad from Estonia, so why not put him in alongside Duffy and Kerr ?  Ralston and Tanser can push on to give width when need be.  I would like us to line up:

                        Clark

             Kerr, Vihman, Duffy

Ralston           Craig                Tanser

                  Holt        McCann

                         May

 

May be seen as a bit negative, but I think that we need to get confidence back in the defence, and a couple of 0-0 draws playing like this may give them the confidence back, so that we can then look at tinkering with it to bring some of the flair players back in.  We would move to a 5-3-1-1 and push one of the central midfielders into the hole and use Kennedy or Swanson in that role.

Just think that we need to get back to being hard to beat, first and foremost.

 

It looks good on paper. Being a bit nit picking here but what about subs to cover injury. Your bench would be Parish, Booth, Wotherspoon, Kenndy, Wright, O'Halloran and Kane. We have no cover for an injury or a centre back or him having a night mare of a game and the bench is full of wide players. This would probaly mean a change of formation at the first injuy or second substitution. Most teams play with 5 in midfield, us to play 5-3-1-1 with 3 in the middle they would get over run

[Saint Paul]

21 hours ago, Johnny B said:

It looks good on paper. Being a bit nit picking here but what about subs to cover injury. Your bench would be Parish, Booth, Wotherspoon, Kenndy, Wright, O'Halloran and Kane. We have no cover for an injury or a centre back or him having a night mare of a game and the bench is full of wide players. This would probaly mean a change of formation at the first injuy or second substitution. Most teams play with 5 in midfield, us to play 5-3-1-1 with 3 in the middle they would get over run

This is true, however, I think it would be worth a shot.  the lack of depth in the squad at certain positions is clear, however, I don't think that we can discount a formation due to lack of subs to cover the positions.  If an injury happens, then the management are paid to deal with these situations.  

Don;t know if Booth can provide cover for a central defender as well as left back ?  Wotherspoon can play centrally as well as wide.

We would essentially have 5 in midfield, if you consider the wing-backs as deeper lying wide midfielders, so don't think that we would be over run, but you could certainly drop Holt deeper, and allow McCann to play behind the striker, or play Kennedy there instead.

I think that we need to get back to being solid and hard to beat first and foremost, and then use that to build again going forward.  I am aware that we are dropping a lot of our creative players such as Kennedy, Wright and O'Halloran, however, at the minute, they are not saving us when we go 1 or 2 goals down, so I think a radical shift is needed to steady the ship.