Scottish Cup Q/F 29/2/2020


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11 hours ago, TheYellowBox said:

Nonsense. So who did decide the prices? Both clubs have to agree and if they cannot, it defaults to the league prices, which saints set.

On Livi, they have the best home record mainly because of the pitch. They are outnumbered by most away teams. 

It's not making excuses to to go to games. The reality is that our 'core' has dropped from 3-4k, to 1,500ish. Folk aren't going to stop because of fans getting moved stands, but it plays into the wider narrative of fans having been taken granted for years. I've a season ticket, but never enjoy games vs the OF and totally get giving up stands for league games. But, for the cup, I think we should make everything as uncomfortable as possible for them and that means less fans.

If we follow the logic of maximising revenue, why dont we give them the whole stadium and we take the ormond? 

Taken for granted?

That why they introduced the family stand?

The Kids go free etc?

Visiting schools giving free tickets for Bertha Park new residents?

Come off it the club have been doing anything but taking the fans for granted.

They are on a no win situation. Have 2 stands for Saints fans with both half empty with a subsequent loss of revenue

or

Bring the fans together into one big stand,

yes we could have reduced prices but would that have filled the 2 stands? I doubt it. 

8500 fans at 25 quid each equals £212.5k half of that for us £106.25k

10000 fans at 20 quid each £200k half of that for us in £100k. But no way would we get an extra 2000 saints fans at £20 a shot.

 

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4 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

I’d rather have an empty stand that a stand full of either of that lot for a Cup game. 
 

In fact, I’d prefer 4 empty stands to 3 away stands. 
 

I fully back it in the league, but it’s waving the white flag in the extreme to do it in cup games. 

Why is it "waving the white flag"? Folk speak as if we cant win when the crowd is against us, we won the Scottish Cup Semi when Aberdeen fans outnumbered us by about 20,000.

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2 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Why is it "waving the white flag"? Folk speak as if we cant win when the crowd is against us, we won the Scottish Cup Semi when Aberdeen fans outnumbered us by about 20,000.

Celtic already have a huge advantage on the park. I’d argue that Aberdeen side didnt. It was marginal in comparison. 
 

It’s sending the wrong message in a cup game. Also, What happens is the scenario that we sell all our tickets for this Cup Game and fans can’t get in because we’ve given up 3 sides of the ground? 

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3 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

Celtic already have a huge advantage on the park. I’d argue that Aberdeen side didnt. It was marginal in comparison. 
 

It’s sending the wrong message in a cup game. Also, What happens is the scenario that we sell all our tickets for this Cup Game and fans can’t get in because we’ve given up 3 sides of the ground? 

That Aberdeen side beat us 4-0 that season.

You believe St Johnstone will sell more than 3000 tickets?

I dont think we've had a game against either OF side in the past decade where we've outnumbered them.

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29 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

That Aberdeen side beat us 4-0 that season.

You believe St Johnstone will sell more than 3000 tickets?

I dont think we've had a game against either OF side in the past decade where we've outnumbered them.

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that we could sell 3000 for a Quarter Final. 

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Just now, Abernethy Saint said:

Would you personally use a large amount of your own money to make an investment where making a profit is “not beyond the realms of possibility”.?

 

Give them the North and the East and we lose maybe £25k in ticket money. 


But we potentially gain a lot more. 
 

Get through and you’ve got a 25% share of the pooled Hampden gate. A chance at winning the Cup again. A chance of getting into Europe. 
 

Giving them all 3 sides gives them a huge psychological edge before a ball is kicked. 
 

I’d happily have given them just the North and North end of the main to lower that edge. 

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34 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that we could sell 3000 for a Quarter Final. 

Did we even sell 3000 for the semi final v Aberdeen?

 

17 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

Giving them all 3 sides gives them a huge psychological edge before a ball is kicked. 

29/01/20, 20:45 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 3  (0 : 3) (0 : 0)
03/08/19, 16:00 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  7 : 0  (3 : 0) (4 : 0)
10/02/19, 14:30 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  5 : 0  (2 : 0) (3 : 0)
03/02/19, 13:30 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 2  (0 : 0) (0 : 2)
30/01/19, 20:45 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  2 : 0  (0 : 0) (2 : 0)
07/10/18, 16:30 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 6  (0 : 5) (0 : 1)
26/09/18, 20:45 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 1  (0 : 0) (0 : 1)
18/02/18, 16:00 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  0 : 0  (0 : 0) (0 : 0)
04/11/17, 13:30 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 4  (0 : 1) (0 : 3)
26/08/17, 16:00 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  1 : 1  (0 : 1) (1 : 0)

Three stands hasn't made much of an impact when you look back through the results where they didn't have three full stands. 

Players always say they prefer the packed hostile atmosphere of playing at Ibrox or Parkhead so I don't imagine they find it any worse than seeing a half empty stadium in Perth.

Edited by garydavidson
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16 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

Did we even sell 3000 for the semi final v Aberdeen?

 

29/01/20, 20:45 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 3  (0 : 3) (0 : 0)
03/08/19, 16:00 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  7 : 0  (3 : 0) (4 : 0)
10/02/19, 14:30 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  5 : 0  (2 : 0) (3 : 0)
03/02/19, 13:30 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 2  (0 : 0) (0 : 2)
30/01/19, 20:45 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  2 : 0  (0 : 0) (2 : 0)
07/10/18, 16:30 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 6  (0 : 5) (0 : 1)
26/09/18, 20:45 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 1  (0 : 0) (0 : 1)
18/02/18, 16:00 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  0 : 0  (0 : 0) (0 : 0)
04/11/17, 13:30 St. Johnstone - Celtic  FT  0 : 4  (0 : 1) (0 : 3)
26/08/17, 16:00 Celtic - St. Johnstone  FT  1 : 1  (0 : 1) (1 : 0)

Three stands hasn't made much of an impact when you look back through the results where they didn't have three full stands. 

Players always say they prefer the packed hostile atmosphere of playing at Ibrox or Parkhead so I don't imagine they find it any worse than seeing a half empty stadium in Perth.

Unbelievable that we have not scored a goal against them since August 2017 & 10 games since we scored a goal against them.

Wonder how many shots on target we have had.

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1 hour ago, Pat McGroin said:

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that we could sell 3000 for a Quarter Final. 

We've not managed that for a home Scottish Cup game against a top flight side in the last 5 years. We didnt even manage 2000 home fans for a League Cup Quarter Final tie against Celtic last season with us having the East and prices being cheaper than this time. No idea why people have suddenly decided that us having the East, and lower prices, would somehow see over 1000 more fans sprout up than last season.

1 hour ago, Pat McGroin said:


But we potentially gain a lot more. 
 

Get through and you’ve got a 25% share of the pooled Hampden gate. A chance at winning the Cup again. A chance of getting into Europe. 
 

Giving them all 3 sides gives them a huge psychological edge before a ball is kicked. 
 

I’d happily have given them just the North and North end of the main to lower that edge. 

This is all bollocks, as the crowd size has almost no effect at all on results. We've won regularly at Ibrox, and Celtic Park, in the past decade, yet all of a sudden its forfeiting games if we dont limit their support numbers.

Edited by RandomGuy
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32 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

We've not managed that for a home Scottish Cup game against a top flight side in the last 5 years. We didnt even manage 2000 home fans for a League Cup Quarter Final tie against Celtic last season with us having the East and prices being cheaper than this time. No idea why people have suddenly decided that us having the East, and lower prices, would somehow see over 1000 more fans sprout up than last season.

This is all bollocks, as the crowd size has almost no effect at all on results. We've won regularly at Ibrox, and Celtic Park, in the past decade, yet all of a sudden its forfeiting games if we dont limit their support numbers.

Now you’re trying to compare the League Cup and Scottish Cup?

There’s no comparison between the two. League cup has zero prestige. 
 

You can believe that handing them 3 sides of the ground has no effect. I’m sure privately, Tommy and his players would disagree. 
 

Of course Celtic are favourites but we’re giving them a much bigger edge. How many times do players mention the difference that a vocal support makes? 

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1 hour ago, GMac said:

Maybe this is the reason, why the fans don't turn up when we are playing them, we haven't laid a fecking glove on them at home for years, give us a performance we can be proud of, COYS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This, rather than the crowd size, saints need to get in about them and make a game of it like we used to do and that was even giving them three stands in the nineties!! A big part of that is keeping tanser away from Forrest as he seems to rip him a new one everytime we play them.

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50 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

Now you’re trying to compare the League Cup and Scottish Cup?

There’s no comparison between the two. League cup has zero prestige. 
 

You can believe that handing them 3 sides of the ground has no effect. I’m sure privately, Tommy and his players would disagree. 
 

Of course Celtic are favourites but we’re giving them a much bigger edge. How many times do players mention the difference that a vocal support makes? 

At the fans forum Roddy said that from a players perspective they prefer to perform in front of a packed stadium with atmosphere, irrespective of who is creating it. 

It would be preferable that it was created by Saints fans but it is just not going to happen despite the clubs best attempts to organically grow the support base.

Those that keep on moaning about it there is a solution.........buy the club and run it your way and see how that pans out.

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I don't really think the club has done much wrong here. Regardless of what bits of the ground we give to Celtic, the home crowd won't change in size. So we either fill as many of the empty seats as we can by giving them to Celtic, or they stay empty, and I don't really get what the point of that would be. Personally I'm not convinced that it will have any impact on the result of the match - even when we've beaten them in the past, we've always been outnumbered in the stands. On the day, if Saints are winning then the chances are the Celtic fans will go quiet and all the atmosphere will come from the home fans anyway. If we're losing, it will be the opposite. I generally think the atmosphere is driven by what's happening on the pitch, rather than the other way around.

The only way to change this situation is for Saints fans to start turning up to these games in bigger numbers... but at £25 a ticket, the matches often being televised and our team often taking a humping, I find it hard to see any way that that's going to happen.

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This could have been turned into our cup final. 

Move the game to Murrayfield and turn it into an opportunity to take them on at a neutral venue with a massive crowd. 

We would take more fans to a special occasion which would be magic than we will get at home. 

Saints fans would rise to the occasion, build up to the game would be exciting. 

Add in 40,000 celtic fans and it would be a special day out. 

Neutral venue and a  noisy saints support sounds good to me. Get a goal ahead and we'll, wow, the place would be rocking. 

Massive upside would be a share of an £800,000 plus gate minus costs of the venue. Saints still the home team so hospitality packages etc would make a fortune. 

I would certainly have gone to that. 

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27 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I don't really think the club has done much wrong here. Regardless of what bits of the ground we give to Celtic, the home crowd won't change in size. So we either fill as many of the empty seats as we can by giving them to Celtic, or they stay empty, and I don't really get what the point of that would be. Personally I'm not convinced that it will have any impact on the result of the match - even when we've beaten them in the past, we've always been outnumbered in the stands. On the day, if Saints are winning then the chances are the Celtic fans will go quiet and all the atmosphere will come from the home fans anyway. If we're losing, it will be the opposite. I generally think the atmosphere is driven by what's happening on the pitch, rather than the other way around.

The only way to change this situation is for Saints fans to start turning up to these games in bigger numbers... but at £25 a ticket, the matches often being televised and our team often taking a humping, I find it hard to see any way that that's going to happen.

I think you've summed this up pretty much on the money.

The only ctritism of the club I would offer is that since we are playing Rangers the week before in the league there was an opportunity to price the tickes to home fans for both matches with a discount if purchased for both games.

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19 minutes ago, SaintJet said:

I think you've summed this up pretty much on the money.

The only ctritism of the club I would offer is that since we are playing Rangers the week before in the league there was an opportunity to price the tickes to home fans for both matches with a discount if purchased for both games.

I don't think it would be possible to do an offer like that for a Cup game, as Celtic would have to agree to it.

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3 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Initial allocation was 5000 and it didnt come close to selling out.

It was 4,000, I think, we had there. It was after a horrendous run of SF’s against beatable teams, and I think folk were understandably scunnered. We’d get double that now, and more if it was a beatable team, I would think.

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