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So just because somebody has a different opinion, or an opinion that doesn't fall into line with the majority, then that makes them up their own arse? The whole idea of a forum like this is to encourage discussion and debate. Not everybody's going to think the same. If we all had the same opinions then life would be boring as hell.

The punishment doled out to EsEs and some other Turkish teams were as a result of a few individual taking illegal payments. In EsEs case, these individuals are no longer at the club(I think. Pretty sure they are appealling on that basis). Pretty sure the EsEs supporters will be pi$$ed off that a few folk have soiled their name. And its not about a 'good night out' It's about a welcome received, a bond created. If you weren't there it's easy to dismiss as a good night. And before anyone starts, I am not saying 'You're less of a supporter than me cos ye weren't there' I'm not. What I am saying is that it's very difficult to know what the trip was like having not experienced it. And easy to play it down on that basis It's also probably easier to not be as bothered by the allegations because we weren't affected by it. Using the Rangers analogy, We were directly affected by Rangers institutional cheating. They bought and paid for better players using money they didn't have for a lot of years. The mainstream media told us they were better than us, and still do. Their supporters gloated about their success, they complained everyone was out to get them, and still do! Yet they still follow the same course of action

Xanthi survives eventful play-off to stay up By George Georgakopoulos Xanthi will remain in the top flight for the 26th season in a row, after defeating second-division club Olympiakos Volou 2-1 on Wednesday in the long-overdue relegation play-off at Thessaloniki. Some two months after the end of the Super League, in which Xanthi finished 16th, the playoff with the team to finish third in the Football League, Olympiakos Volou finally took place, as the second division teams first had to negotiate a 14-game round-robin play-off mini-league, and the authorities also had to examine allegations about match fixing in the Football League. After all that was settled, the game was scheduled for the Kleanthis Vikelidis stadium in Thessaloniki, only for Aris fans to break into their home ground the night before and throw nails and pieces of glass on the turf, while vandalizing the goalposts and spraying hate messages against the owners of Xanthi and Olympiakos Volou, among others. A massive operation to restore the pitch and the goals started on Wednesday morning, that thankfully bore fruit and the game went ahead as scheduled, on the eve of the World Cup opener. After a 25-minute delay, as the two teams could not agree which bench their coaches and substitutes would sit on, the play-off started and it was Olympiakos Volou that opened the score in the 34th minute through Mario Gurma. Xanthi went back on level terms with Olympiakos three minutes into the first-half injury time thanks to a Dimitris Goutas goal from an offside position according to television replays. That prompted the Volos club to issue a statement at half-time asking for all members of the federation’s board and of its referee committee to resign. It also forced its players to emerge from their locker room 10 minutes late in protest for the referee’s decisions. Xanthi was left with 10 men three minutes from the restart as Petros Mantalos pushed an opponent violently. Despite the one-man disadvantage Xanthi went on to score the all-important winning goal in the 82nd minute through Antonis Ranos and held on to it till the end. The game ended with a seven-minute delay as the match was interrupted when the coach of Xanthi, Nikos Kehayias was hit by an object from the Volos fans. Just another day in Greek soccer.

Hull would suit me very nicely indeed - eight miles down the road....

A football club is a business like no other though. For instance, if (god forbid) St Johnstone FC was to go out of business tomorrow and cease to exist, it's not like Her supporters would buy season tickets for say, Dens Park or Tannadice instead.... If Tesco was to shut down tomorrow it's customers would simply shop elsewhere. You're either a Saints supporter or you're not. Saints benefit massively from season ticket sales - having the £ up front. And pay at the gate sales bring in more revenue per skull/per game. If having the fantastic season we've just had doesn't entice more fans to McDiarmid Park either as a season ticket holder or a PATG fan then I don't know what will...

Some of these ideas are fine, but the cost of setting them up and maintaining them would be astronomical (in relative terms) for a club that can't afford to mend its own scoreboard. Tesco's loyalty card rate, for example, is just 1% - it's main purpose is to gather info on customers, not gain customers in and of itself. The actual cost to them is far less than 1%, because of all the unused coupons, and because they can off-set the cost of alternative market research methods. I'm not sure anyone goes to Tesco rather than say Asda primarily because of the loyalty card - otherwise they would all do it. The real benefit comes from the massive data set that allows them to target their offer in both general and individual customer terms. Saints operate on a completely different scale. Market research is not really worth spending money on - my cat could accurately profile the target client group. So you're left with the simple idea that offering loyalty points brings in more fans (whether it's for a pie, a free game whatever). Would you really, really go to McD on a rainy Wednesday night to watch Partick because, if you did that nine more times, you get a free pie at the end of it - or even a free game? If you were going to go anyway, you'd get a rosy glow. Saints will lose money. I think what folk are looking for is for Saints to reward them for their loyalty. They did that by winning a cup, and (so he Beloved tells me) spending the last couple of weeks dragging it round every school and nursery in sight. Etc etc. They're doing that to turn these kids on to Saints - SUPERB, cost-effective marketing despite what folk have said on here. I'm not getting at anyone for having these ideas - but it can't be about rewarding loyalty, unless it results in significant net income - ie the increased revenue minus ALL set-up and continuing costs. Hope that doesn't sound miserable - not meant to be.

While clearly not the best stadium in the world, I like that there is something traditionally different about it from the identikit stadiums all over the place and would much rather prefer that we play finals at a neutral venue. However, if needs be, I think it would be pretty painless to do a phased rebuild to bring in the space behind the goals. What would be great though is to have an 'alternative' stadium build somewhere more centrally in say Stirling or Falkirk. 30k seats to be used for semis, smaller scotland games and the likes of Rugby games too. If you do it right, it could be a 7 days a week operation shared by govt, sfa and sru and with selling naming rights and partners etc, would be easily affordable. 4 semi finals and say play off finals too, you'd be talking maybe 6-7 domestic games, plus chalange cup and a couple if international games and all u21 games and it may end up pretty well used.

Brazil's defence didn't impress me, and that Neymair's run up for the penalty whit the feck wis that

They were doing that "done just about enough to clear it" shit.....NO...THEY DID DO ENOUGH- NOT JUST ABOUT ENOUGH

Shocking referee. Is he Willie Collum in disguise?

Here we go head on chopping block not looking through blue tinted glasses. I do not think he is good enough at this moment in time to make it down south. Many leading goal scorers have went down and failed to make the grade. Hooper, Boyd, McDonald, Miller. McCoist and the list goes on. I know the money temptation will be too much to resist. If he does go he will be back in two years.

Goal line technology 4 years too late for England and Frank Lampard seemingly, 48 years too late for the rest of us though

Surely. I think Jellfish & May could be one of the best strike fore in Premiership. I would be excited if I was a Hull fan.

It wont be, no. Nor will there be a star. You could always have cup winners printed onto it.

Would be an attractive club for Stevie,every chance he'd get game time,Stevie Bruce seems a good man manager too,so could tempt him.

Haribo are made in Nimes,Uzes....so if you want a treat, its here!

Em...I heard Ghostie was caught in the toilet with a fag.......I interpreted it differently than you obviously

Stop exagerrating, it was only 130 years

Can we please stop using the "we won the Scottish Cup" position to attempt to belittle any discussions from now on in that offer an opinion other than 'all is rosy and bright in the world' For me, if it is a couple of players acting independently from the club, then I have no issues with a continued relationship with Eses......if the club howewer were in any way involved, then that would be different Just to add, in either of the above scenarios, it wouldn't make me think any less of their supporters. I wasn't there and didn't experience it or make 'friends' with anybody, but I can fully appreciate those that did and the fact that it means something to them.....for me, what happened between our supporters can only be a good thing

You can download a chart here http://home.bt.com/pages/worldcup/BT-Sport-World-Cup-wall-chart.pdf

Being in sales myself, I always thought the role missing in 'marketing' for clubs is an actual sales function, even a commission based job to sell more season tickets and market the club. Even though clubs are run as official businesses, few seem to have any commercial strategy in terms of fan based growth. If you had a single person driving all this with sales based incentives, I think they'd pay for themselves in a few months and gravy would follow. You could tie all the media pieces into this role as these tools would help that person sell more tickets and they'd be motivated to keep them current as well as finding new channels.

The location of Hampden is a disgrace. It suits weegies and no one else, from a travel point of view. They should have built a new stadium at Strathclyde park, and let Motherwell play there. National stadiums should have motorways, trains and plenty of parking in this day and age. From a selfish point of view, Stirling would be even better, and let the Bino's move there. But I can't see the "weegie minded" wasters in the SFA, let this happen.

Pm /phone me when our back, meet up for a pint and a catch Gav

of course I don't

If we made one turnstile in the East Stand and maybe the Main Stand, But lets go for the Main stand the now as a card operated gate ,(I am thinking the technology may be easier worked from the Main Stand for a test period) One that you go up put your plastic card in the slot and it opens the gate, The club produce and send out these plastic cards I am sure 5000 of these cards would not cost to much . the punters then can add credit to the cards as they go like pay as you go mobile phones do, this way you can buy 1 game, 5 game etc etc. you can get a bonus credit put on your card if you buy say a 10 game package. Or is that too much modern day for us yet.

Two EsEs players were convicted by courts in Turkey of taking bribes, as well as many other Turkish players from other teams during that season, and were heavily punished. EsEs as a club banned from Europe for their involvement (indirectly) in match fixing. Does not mean the whole club were cheating or corrupt. Because George O Boyle and Kevin Thomas were alleged to have taken drugs, does that mean the whole club are druggies? I think not! As a fan who visited Turkey, and have also had the opportunity to help host Turkish fans who visited Perth, I can still say I am proud of the link between the two sets of fans. To those who think its cringeworth or boak inducing, that your opinion, not fact.

Right, fu(k it I'll bite right boak inducing cringe is clearly an opinion, Some think the relationship is a great thing. Others don't These are opinions And I think some cheating can be a sliding scale. Alain Baxter and Lance Armstrong are drug cheats. Baxter took a cold remedy that unbeknown to him contained a banned substance, Lance Armstrong took drugs, co-erced others and hid it from authorities for years Are they both the same?

the boak inducing cringe? or the no sliding scale of cheating?

The bond with Es Es is boak inducing cringe. Cheating is cheating no matter how it is done. There is no scale of what is worse.

Well all the bitter rangers fans wanted us to win as they hate dundee united. I think a lot of other people fell for the romance of wanting to see us win our first ever Scottish cup.

What has happened to Dr Christmas Jones not been heard off on here since before Eve of Cup Final hope is all well

Larky, watch it disnae get stolen then

God, how long is this going to go on? Fell asleep during the 43,986 crap documentary about Ingerland, with obligatory 123,574,345,198 showing of the "it's all over - it is now" and woke up just now shouting "YES - Scottish Cup". There should be a book - "How to behave if you've never won anything before".

Ok this is random, but highlights just how the stevie may appeal isn't just with saints fans nor just in Perth. True story...My wife teaches at a high school in Essex near basildon. Walking down the corridor she heard some year tens (14-15 years old) discussing the prowess of stevie may and his "Reem" hair....she stopped and had to clarify with the group of boys that she had heard correct, and she had. They asked my wife how she knows about stevie may to which she replied that he is her husbands pin up and her husband is a saints fan....in unison the all said "shurrraaap". She then explained that I had gone to the final etc etc and was born in Perth. True story...."the only way is stevie"