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I don't want this thread to go off topic, but as your saying things which are simply untrue, I feel I need to confront them. I apologise to everyone for my rant below; So, MySpazz, Could you back up your "livelihood is threatened by cheap imported labour", and "levels of immigration are harmful"? And by backing them up I mean actual statistics, not the racist ramblings of Robinson, Farage, Braverman etc... Here is some stats to get you started though; Wage effect: Numerous reports have found no effect, or only minor effects. Even in the reports where the biggest impact of wages has been seen, the only negative effect has been on jobs in the 5th percentile, with immigration up to 2016 having an effect over 20 years of 0.5p on wages. During that same period the minimum wage was raised by £3.60, so any negative was more than offset by the increase in minimum wages. In all other job classes, the effect of immigration had the opposite effect, increasing the salary levels for local employees. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/ Levels of immigration: Higher immigration will maket the country richer... period. Less immigration will cost every person in this country money. This fact is almost universally found in every single study undertaken https://obr.uk/box/net-migration-forecast-and-its-impact-on-the-economy/ Intergration: Don't even attempt this attack line when one of the UK's national foods comes from the sub continent... Coupled to this immigrants tend to integrate more in UK life than locals do (eg, church of england has been propped up by a surging immigrant membership for over 10 years now, as local membership falls). Its no surprise that the areas with riots are the areas with the lowest immigrant populations, whereas the areas with the highest populations of immigrants have seen zero trouble. Ah, but your argument is probably that is all "legal" migration. What about the "illegals". Well, firstly, asylum seekers are not "illegals". It is not illegal to claim asylum (despite what Farage, Braverman etc will have told you). There are some useful stats I would like you to read as they are important to know and also help give some important perspective so we are not simply propagating the wildly inaccurate nonsense the govn and right wing press put out to scapegoat those who cannot speak up for themselves. What the govn are trying to do is deflect attention from their own major mishandling of public money and so many areas in the UK such as the NHS, education and housing to name a few. Do not believe their hype. Know the facts: - Of the 745,000 net migration figure in the year ending June 2022, 45,756 arrived by boat; making up a relatively small number. Similarly, 44,460 migrants arrived by boat in the year ending June 2023. Similar to spousal migration, that is about 6% of all net migration - At the end of 2021 around 89.3 million people were forcibly displaced across the world. Of these, 27.1 million were refugees, while 53.2 million were internally displaced within their country of origin - The UK is home to approx. 1% - yes ONE %] of the 27.1 million refugees who were forcibly displaced across the world. - Developing countries – not the UK – look after most of the world's refugees. 72% of the world’s refugees are living in countries neighbouring their country of origin, often in developing countries. - 41% of displaced people across the world are children – they make up almost HALF the refugees and asylum seekers - The UK asylum system is strictly controlled and complex. It is very difficult for people seeking asylum to provide the evidence required to be granted protection. Despite these challenges, the majority of asylum claims are successful. In the year ending June 2022, 76% of initial decisions resulted in a grant of asylum or other form of protection. - The Home Office can take months or even years to make a decision on asylum case, and there is a growing backlog of cases. At the end of June 2022, there were over 117,000 people awaiting an initial decision on their asylum case. - Since 2005 most people recognised as refugees are only given permission to stay in the UK for five years. This makes it difficult for them to make decisions about their future, to find work and make definite plans for their life in the UK. - Almost all people seeking asylum are not allowed to work and are forced to rely on state support—this is as little as £6.43 a day to live on.Can you begin to imagine surviving on that? - When refugees and asylum seekers are finally able to work most will want to work and contribute to society and a better future for them and their families. As we all do I have actual lived experience of a vile immigration system that has continually scapegoated immigrants across the board, and continues to allow the spread their hate, misinformation and blame. I sat in an immigration tribunal as they told my children that they had no right to live with their mother. They could have a parental relationship over Skype. The UK government spent more than £50,000 of YOUR tax money trying to deprive my British children of the right to live with their mother. That mother, having won her right to live here, has founded three companies which employ over 100 people in Scotland at an average salary level of over £40,000/person and have brought in over £10 million of inward investment into Scotland. If we hadn't been able to spend money to fight system we would have been another statistic of a family separated by the inhuman immigration laws and 100 Scottish citizens wouldn't have a job as a result. Don’t fall for the governments PR – THEY are to blame for our woes and the destruction of our services. Not someone arriving here ‘on a boat’ desperate for a place where they can find safety in a country they believe is humane and democratic. They are humans too - never lose sight of that.

OK so here are some of the top points as I remember them from last night. Very much paraphrasing from memory, so please don't take any of these as direct quotes. Fran came across as very positive and spoke a lot about us being 'one club, one city, one community' and as such there will be new branding for the club that feeds into that. This includes a refreshed version of the badge that was shown last night and will be shared with the wider fanbase soon. It was all received positively in the room and I think people are going to like it. It's basically the same design as the current badge but with a few tweaks to make it feel a bit more modern and make it easier to print on merch. The club has never really had its own consistent branding and they're trying to address that (at last!). A new website will also be coming soon. In general a lot was said about being open, improving communication with fans, having positive, energetic people at the club and making it a happy place to work (I got the impression it wasn't before!). Several of the new board members were there and were introduced to the fans. A big part of why Simo stood out in his interview was his enthusiasm, which was in line with the new culture they want to have at the club. Recognised that there has never been much diversity on the board and steps are being taken to address that. Two women are being spoken to about joining the board - one of whom is experienced in football, and the other has a lot of knowledge of Perth & Kinross. The club are far down the line with taking on the old Visit Scotland shop on the High Street, and the plan is to turn it into a Saints museum with a small shop area. The Muirton Suite is going to be redesigned and made bigger, so that it can be open through the week. They want to bring the women's team home and have them playing on the astroturf, but to do that they need to build a stand and make other improvements. They want to change people's mindset from just "Saints are playing on Saturday", to recognise that there are two Saints teams, one playing on Saturday and one playing on Sunday. Mixed views from Simo, Fran and the board on VAR but general consensus seemed to be that it's here to stay but needs to be improved. Acknowledged that much of the frustration comes from fans seeing games on TV at the Euros, Champions League etc where it all happens much faster. Fran mentioned that in one game there was a 7-minute delay because the ref was having a disagreement with what VAR wanted to do. At the moment there is no plan to let fans buy shares. If fans want to back the club financially, one thing they could do is help with funding/sponsorship of the women's team which would grow that side of the business and help with the effort to bring their games back to McDiarmid. Old Firm ticketing was spoken about for a long time. Fran stressed that when OF fans are in the home ends, it's because home fans have bought tickets for them. The only way to deal with this is for us, as fans, to report it when we see it and make sure we're not giving them tickets. Some fans caught buying tickets for them have already had their ticket-buying privileges revoked. By not giving the OF fans as many seats as possible and trying to fill the ground, we lose £75,000 per home match against the OF. That's the equivalent of one player for a year with each of these games. The club has committed to trying to let home fans have these areas instead but it doesn't make financial sense as fans aren't filling these areas. They're going to give it two more games to see how it goes, but if it's not working it'll have to be assessed again. One fan said we should just give the OF the stands, cash in, sign better players and use it towards getting back to Europe and winning Cups. Fran said personally he saw it that way too (and personally I have to agree). One of the things being considered is a season ticket option that doesn't include OF games, as so many home fans aren't going to those games. Simo's bit ... As you'd expect, Simo was very engaging, funny and charismatic. Very likeable. (Basically I think we all got lost in his eyes.) Most importantly, enthusiastic about the club and the city. He said he loves that Perth feels like one city with one team that everyone can get behind and that makes it feel like home, whereas Motherwell felt like a bit of Glasgow (or words along those lines - I can't remember exactly how he said it). When asked where we'd finish this season, he said we'll be pushing for Top 6 and wants cup finals. After we achieve something we should always be aiming higher. Unlike previous managers he seemed very happy to state his ambitions. But he stressed we need to get the short-term stuff right first. Having a big striker is an important part of how he wants to play, so that they can hold the ball up and knock it down to fast strikers. Sounds like Uche is still a while away from being back and ready. He's impressed with how Kyle Cameron and Nicky Clark have responded to the captaincy change. It was too much pressure on Kyle's shoulders to deal with being captain at the same time as trying to impress as a loan player. He's seen a big difference in him since the change and it'll help how he plays. Also said Nicky Clark was previously a selfish player who only cared about scoring goals, but as captain he's embracing having to care about the whole team and that is showing in his performances. He's been impressed with our young players and particularly mentioned Fran Franczak. Younger players and fringe players will get their chance, but as an immediate priority he wanted to stick with a core group for his first few games. On the subject of streaming future meetings online - the club has no issue with doing that, it's up to the people running the forum to decide as it's their meeting. Sounds like they're going to try it out for the next one, but there was a concern raised that fewer people might show up in person if they do it this way. I've probably forgotten loads of bits, but that's just a brain-splurge of what I remember!

Very impressive first couple of interviews from Valakari. You can just feel the ambition, passion and determination emanating out of him. Love how much he wants to be here, and that he's happy to openly state he wants the club to get back to winning things. There's none of that "staying up is good enough for St Johnstone" attitude that has dragged us backwards and been used as an excuse for failure over the last few years. No giving a sh*t about all that "natural order" bollocks. No respect for the idea that certain clubs should expect to be doing better than us. This is not someone who's going to say Hibs etc should finish above us in the league. He's all about this club being as successful as it can be and I bloody love that. Obviously it's early days and he has to prove he can walk the walk, but he's so much easier to get behind than his predecessor was and I think that will really help him. You'll never see him joking about not knowing if we're home or away in our next game, like Levein did. Everything about him says he's going to take this seriously and cover every detail. Right now I'm very glad we've taken a chance on him rather than end up with Lynch, Leven, McCabe, Brown or Murray. None of those guys felt like the right fit to me. Instead we've gone with probably the most un-St Johnstone-like appointment imaginable, and no matter how it turns out I really like that we've done that. This is the most excited I've been about our club's future in quite some time.

Maybe Question 1 in the job interview should be "Where do you see St Johnstone's place in Scottish football?" Weed out all the Natural Order twats like Murray right from the word go.

So it's been a tough few years that has no one to blame and no reason for happening other than some bad luck? Do you actually think our collapse has been unavoidable? Of course football always has highs and lows, but there are also always reasons for those highs and lows. They don't just happen by some mystical natural force that no one has any control over. I think we must have very different definitions of "well run". We used to be well run, yes, but we've been a complete shambles for quite a few years now. An absentee owner, a half-hearted chairman who didn't want to be here, an incompetent head of operations, a head of communications who was more interested in communicating about Celtic, a recruitment guy the manager didn't want, a succession of badly chosen managers. Many people saw all of this coming, not least Tommy Wright who tried to tell his bosses what needed to be done to develop the club and found himself banging his head against a brick wall each time, to the point that he'd had enough and we lost our best ever manager. These things have all had an impact but you think anyone who actually mentions them is "stupid" or "needs to take a good look at themselves"?

This is down to Davidson, Steve Brown, and a certain extent, Levein. Been a muirtonee since 1976 and beggars believe that some Saints fans think Davidson is some kind of hero for the cup double (Tommy's team). This current situation is so self inflicted. Feel sorry for Simo inheriting such an imbalanced squad.

Good turn-out tonight and I felt Webb and the other new guys spoke very well. Not sure all the things they're talking about doing are going to work but at least they're eager to try things and have a go, which I find incredibly refreshing. I'm sure there will be some proper minutes at some stage but I made a few notes on my phone as it went along: He thinks they've fixed the speakers in the East Stand. They're looking into getting a video screen to replace the scoreboard. It could be in place in time for the next home game after the Aberdeen game, but it depends on costs. Acknowledged the issues with ticketing for Old Firm home games and the fact that the atmosphere at these games is putting people off coming. They haven't decided yet how to handle ticketing but want to find a middle ground between keeping our own fans happy and getting as much money out of the OF as they can. They're open to suggestions from fans on how to handle this. The Muirton Suite is being increased in size for Monday night and there have been discussions about turning it into a sports bar that serves meals and isn't just open on match days. Increasing attendances is their biggest priority. Webb and co were in town today looking for possible sites for a club shop. Talked up the stadium a lot. Said Cambridge would love a replica of McDiarmid Park and have been trying to get one but it would cost them "10s of millions". Considering removing some of the seats at the bottom of the East Stand to create a standing section. They're "desperate to develop the real estate". Spoke about the possibility of a hotel as he thinks it's a good location for one, but the hotel industry is difficult at the moment. He also gave examples of an on-site McDonalds or Starbucks to help bring people on-site during the week who might also visit the merch shop. Also suggested the possibility of a hotel with a bar/restaurant that could be used as a Saints bar. It's likely the seats will gradually be made blue, and possibly done in stages with one section of seating replaced at a time. We're probably stuck with VAR, but if it ever comes to another vote fans will get to have a say. His inclination seemed to be that he'd probably want Saints to vote against it. But he stressed we're only one club of 12. He wants to improve Saints TV and have something for fans to watch pre-match, post-match and at half-time. Wants to change the team run-out music to something more inspiring, and there will be a few different options for fans to vote for. Also just to mention that Stan Harris briefly spoke about testimonials. Said Muzz's one is done, and alluded to there being financial reasons for that that he couldn't share at a public forum. Spoony's one hasn't happened because no testimonial committee was ever formed (but no suggestion of how that could/should actually happen). I think that's everything, unless anyone caught anything else! I made very quick notes so feel free to correct me on anything I've picked up wrongly.

Depending on how the morning goes, this might be my sons first Saints game.

Honestly don't think it's hyperbole to say that first half had some of the best football I've seen Saints play in years. About 20 minutes in it seemed to me like Sven Sprangler on his own had had more possession than the whole Motherwell team put together. And we actually looked capable of carving out chances with our possession too. That formation change, plus the new signings, really made a world of difference. Curtis looks direct, hard-working, capable of providing us with a much-needed outlet out wide and willing to get stuck into a battle. Fisher seems to have really safe handling and you can already see the positive impact that's having on the defence. And Griffith may have tired a bit in the second half but what a find he looks like being. Positive on the ball, energetic, good touch, brilliant at moving into space. Big surprise to see him playing in such an advanced role, too. What an exciting player to uncover. I felt Douglas had his best game for us too, Holt looked back to his best, and who would have had Drey Wright transforming into a Beckenbauer-style sweeper on their bingo card for 2025?? I think you could tell it's physically and mentally exhausting to maintain that style of football for a full 90 minutes and the drop off in the second half really showed just how much we need to have better reinforcements from the bench. For me, Clark and Kimpioka were both disappointing when they came on and our energy levels up front really dropped with their introduction. Right now I find it hard to see what part they're going to play from this point on, along with some other recent regulars who suddenly look miles out of the picture (and that's with new signings still to come). I'm very excited to see what this team will look like if we can add Svedberg, Eremenko and (hopefully) a left winger. I don't think I'd ever have thought it possible for a fan to feel this positive about a team that is nine points adrift at the bottom of the league.

It seems pretty clear the manager and some players don't trust each other anymore, and I think it's pretty clear we need to back the manager more than those players. Some players are now on their 4th manager and are still putting in woeful displays regularly while fans scream about the manager. There's no success to be had with a club like that, so until the manager can build a squad he actually trusts then it's pointless judging anything.

Whilst he can’t be immune from criticism, we need to give him time to build his own squad. He has inherited a really poor, unbalanced squad which he will need at least two transfers windows to try and turn around and mould into a squad that is capable of playing in his style. His upbeat personality may only take him so far, but I would much rather have that than Levein and Davidson who almost talked the club down at every opportunity and seemed to think that us, the supporters, should just be thankful that Saints were even in the Premiership. Whilst I don’t think it’s beneficial to get all dewy eyed about the past all the time, our successful moments and the mentality the club had under Coyle, McInnes, Lomas and Wright was as a result of them being ambitious and refusing to believe that “plucky St Johnstone” should just be thankful for their lot. I hope our owners back Simo in the transfer window and it’s vital that the support gets behind him as well.

Well, just sent this to the ideas@perthsaints.co.uk email address. Ironically, the last time I emailed them was to let them know I wasn't going to renew the domain name "perthsaints.co.uk" and offered them the chance to register it before anyone else did 😂 ---- Hello Adam Welcome to Scotland, and I’m delighted to see someone take over from Geoff Brown who seems to share his passion for a football club to be a community leader. It is on that last point that I’d like to focus on. I started watching St.Johnstone as a young kid back in the early 90’s, shortly after the construction of McDiarmid Park. I still vividly remember my first game as Saints were played off the park by Dundee Utd, losing 4-1. Regardless, from that point on, myself and my father hardly missed a game, home or away, until the mid 2000’s when after university I left for work in the Far East. Living in Clackmannanshire, the only reason I became a Saints fan is that my father, who had grown up watching Liverpool on the Kop, and had witnessed many of the riots that plagued English football at the time, wanted to ensure I grew up watching football in a safe environment. He had lots of choices of teams to take me too, many closer than McDiarmid (Dunfermline, Falkirk, Stirling, Alloa etc), but it was ultimately Saints we ended up watching due to the strong community spirit that the Brown’s had instilled in the club. Indeed, I remember watching in sadness as my “hero” at the time, and the teams star striker, George O’Boyle was sacked for taking recreational drugs on a night out. The reasoning of the club was very clear – Saints were a family club, and while what Mr O’Boyle did was not illegal, it was not behaviour which was aligned to the clubs values. Many many years on I am a father myself. Having moved back to the UK from Asia in the late 2010’s with my wife and two kids, who were much more interested in basketball than football, I have found my visits to McDiarmid severely limited (although any excuse to drag the kids to the football have been used!). However I now have a third, a 3 year old son, who is being brought up to kick a ball and watch the football. It is fully my desire to get him “hooked” on football at a young age and enjoy the same Saturday ritual with him which I enjoyed with my dad 30 years ago. We watched both home cup games, and unfortunately only missed last night due to a combination of the kick off time not being conducive for a 3 year old and the inability to buy tickets as a non season ticket holder (something which absolutely needs sorting, but not the purpose of this email). However, I find myself in a dilemma. My wife is of Asian descent, and thus my 3 kids have mixed ethnicity. I have experienced first hand the undercurrent of racism that exists in UK society, with the police twice called based on my older son receiving explicitly racist messages via social media from other kids at his school. These threats have included messages threatening violence and destruction of property should “you not be gone by tomorrow”. I have on numerous occasions wondered what brings 14/15 year olds to write messages which are so shockingly racist, as well as threaten violence to someone based on the colour of their skin. The reality is it is not even the parents causing the issue, but the exposure these children have to social media, where they read things which their role models are posting, or promoting, and follow, quite understandably, their viewpoints. I mean, if your role model thinks coloured people should be violently removed from the country, why shouldn’t you have the same view, right? The fact is that every Saints player who takes the field is a role model – to the first team, to the youth setup, to the school kids you encouraged along last night with free tickets. The views aired by Cammy MacPherson last night on twitter, reposting a figurehead in Tommy Robinson who has done more than most to cause the division we have in UK society, is not forthcoming of a family, community club. To make the posts in the current climate, with violent protests taking place against those of mixed race across England, is simply unforgivable. Being a business owner I realise that sacking Cammy may not be compatible with UK labour laws, however I would urge you treat this, and the anger it has created amongst the Saints community, with the upmost seriousness. It will be very difficult for me to cheer on a player who views my children as second class citizens, but my real concern is the effect it will have on impressionable minds in the community and affect the reputation Saints have as a great family club. As you look to bring more local businesses who share the same values as St.Johnstone into cooperation, it would be shame if incidents like this led to the family values being diluted or lost. Kind Regards

You hit the nail on the head "Sadly football culture seems to attract idiots" If you PM me your address or a paypal account i'd like to cover the cost or send a new scarf for your laddie - many of us on this forum and 99.9% of those in the stands at home games are football folk, not the idiots who come and go .....

I heard he refused to pass back the contract...

100% this. It seriously annoyed me the way winning a relegation play-off was suddenly treated as something we should all be celebrating, instead of recognised as the massive failure that it was. We'd gone from winning two cups and matching Galatasaray on their own pitch, to relegation candidates in less than a year. Davidson should have been firmly embarrassed by that, not running around in front of the fans like he thought he was some sort of hero. To me it's one of the cringiest things I've ever witnessed in my years watching Saints. Davidson also should have looked upon that moment as his opportunity to walk away and let someone else have a go at the job, instead of clinging on and actively making us even worse (which we're still trying to recover from two years later).

I think the Double win papered over a lot of cracks and the problems that have led us to where we are now were already pretty firmly engrained at that point. I'd actually put that 'fork in the road' moment as a lot earlier - the summer of 2014, when we'd just attracted 17,000 fans out of the woodwork for our first ever Scottish Cup final and there was a feel-good factor around the club that I'd never, ever experienced before. There were two major errors in that summer: 1. The club did absolutely nothing to try to appeal to that positive, engaged, growing fanbase. They were all allowed to simply disappear back into the woodwork. 2. The club did absolutely nothing to back Tommy Wright. At one point Tommy said during that summer that he'd been told he wouldn't be allowed to make any signings at all. And even when we got a transfer fee for Stevie May at the end of that window, Tommy wasn't allowed to spend money to replace him. The money that would later be spent on Theo Bair, John Mahon, Ali Crawford, Cammy MacPherson etc was all there at that point. The club could have given just a small amount of it to Tommy to spend, but Steve Brown refused. Given the right backing, Tommy could have gotten us into a European group stage and that would have been transformative for this club. Go back to 2014 and sort out recruitment, sort out fan engagement, back the manager, and for my money we'd still have a successful club right now, Tommy would still be here and we'd still be sitting around the Top 6 mark each season with occasional cup runs and European trips to enjoy. And we'd never have had to put people like Callum Davidson, Steven MacLean or Craig Levein in charge of our team. Allowing our greatest ever manager to grow unhappy to the point where he'd had enough and chucked it all in is the biggest mistake this club ever made.

I very much doubt he can be sacked for this. If he's violated a social media policy then at best I'd guess it's probably only worthy of a warning. But personally I don't want to see him ever play for us again. If he plays and gets booed it's going to damage the whole team, it's going to embarrass the whole club, and it's going to damage all the positive PR that has come out of the club since Adam Webb took over. As a Premiership footballer he's in a position where children and young people will look up to him, and he works in an industry that has a long history of problems with racism that a lot of bloody hard work has gone into stamping out. The club absolutely needs to show that these views are not welcome at St Johnstone, and that no one who holds them is welcome to play for us. What he's shared is absolutely vile and has had real-world consequences for people all over Britain this week. That can't just be swept under the carpet.

Hoping tonight shuts up many of the Matt Smith haters… blood, sweat and tears from the lad - not to mention composure skill and drive

This is my 5th match thread start in a row, we've won the last 4 let's make it 5in a row. Bit of a struggle today as the new players got a first taste of Scottish fitba. Hopefully they will be ready for the game at Killie, we've beaten them twice this season so fingers crossed we can do it for a third time

The media bias may actually be a good thing - look what it's doing to fans on here - for once, we're more or less united against the media. Valakari has built a TEAM and I suspect he's used the Fergie siege mentality - the media bias will only help that. The players/management at the end of the match yesterday were united in a way I've not seen in years and fair brought a lump to my throat. It's little things I notice - Sprangler last week, head to head with one of his teammates explaining tactics/movement with his hands. Yesterday, may be Watt's captain's experience, but I saw a few "captaincy" arms around shoulders or pats on the backside. When Drey went marauding up the park late in the game and they then broke back - who was in Drey's position covering? Griffiths. Oh, and it may just be me, but I can't remember Carey shouting at/berating his colleagues recently as he used to do? (may be he's fighting for a starting place, or maybe Simo's just had a word about working together). As people of a certain age will recall"I love it when a plan comes together". They are all working for each other, as an unit, and that's all down to Simo and the mentality of the players he's brought in. Almost like Tommy - picking up players with a point to prove or who want to prove themselves in this league. Whatever is happening, it appears to be working and, don't know about you, but I'd love to give the media a massive sh*t burger to eat at the end of the season.

Lucky them

I just don't think Levein gets us. He's a Hearts man, and has that mentality of placing us in the wee team category. Like we should be grateful to be here, rather than attempting to push onwards and upwards. The rest of Scottish football thinks that way about us as well. Reporters going on about how "we might be successful in staying up", as if that's the ultimate that we can expect. We've gone from being the double cup winning, European regulars, to the team circling the drain. This means our opponents have an instant advantage against us, because they genuinely believe they'll get a result. If we're to change other people's attitudes, we must change our own first. We have to believe that we not only belong, but that we can be successful in this league. The opposition used to hate playing us, but that's all gone now. We're looked down on by everybody. We've lost any fear factor we may have once had. Right now, other teams see us as the easy touch, and always expect points from us. That will continue until we change our own self image. In my opinion, Levein is not the person to do that, because he doesn't believe it himself. He also makes strange decisions during the game, leaves his subs until too late, says he's happy with the squad he's got, makes weird tactical decisions, and so on. I just can't see a path going forward now, if things stay as they are. No need to panic, because Cleland is a steady enough hand to take the controls until a new appointment is made. Better to act sooner rather than later, and I think now is the perfect time. If County can beat a decent side like Dundee, then us with no forwards, leaders or organisation have little to no chance next week. Celtic and Rangers after that, so we can forget those. If we effectively write off the next three games, that means we have until after the next international break to make an appointment. Our next potentially winnable game is on October 19th, ironically against County. Plenty of time to have a new manager in place, and no need to rush into a decision like we did last season. More importantly, time to make sure it's the right person going forward. Somebody who understands what's required to lead this club, who thinks big and gets what St. Johnstone means to all of us.

I keep seeing people say this about Tommy's time and it's just the biggest myth going. Obviously every team moved up one place thanks to Rangers being out of the league, but as for the rest of them? Why would Hibs, Hearts and Dundee United being relegated make the league easier? Those teams were all relegated because they weren't good enough. Hibs and Dundee Utd weren't even able to get out of a lower league for several seasons. Why do people think it would make a league stronger if you put teams into it who hadn't been good enough? The fact is, Tommy's Saints competed against the best teams in the country, on merit, at that time. I see nothing on a Saturday to suggest the league is any better now than it was 10 years ago. Quite a lot of the teams are actually weaker (Saints being one of them). Seriously, the high esteem a lot of Saints fans seem to hold Hibs in is something I'll never fail to be baffled by. This just isn't true. Before Tommy left he'd taken us into the Top 6, we were in very strong form, and what's more he'd put together the new generation of Saints players that would go on to finish 5th and win the Double just a year later. I've never understood why some Saints fans seem to consider Tommy's few months at Kilmarnock as more relevant than the seven years he spent here, in front of their own eyes, building the most successful era we've ever had and creating several different generations of successful Saints team. He's quite simply the best manager we've ever had, by miles, and allowing him to walk away was the biggest mistake the Browns ever made.

the "documentary" is filled with lies (which have been proven as lies in court and him repeating them means he can't enter the UK again without being arrested) that are created and repeated entirely to spread hate and distrust of refugees and other races. You can try and sit on the fence on this one if you want but it's pretty clear, based on this and his previous likes/retweets, that he's 100% a supporter of Tommy Robinson, and retweeting a propaganda video that incites violence against other races is absolutely miles away from what a footballer should be doing. There's kids in our support who follow him who'll have watched that video because he promoted it.

Some players were given big chances tonight and completely blew it. I only saw the second half but from what I saw Alloa were just better than us in every department, red card or no red card, and I'm honestly expecting East Fife to give us a doing on Saturday. That Craig Levein thinks some of these guys are better options for his squad than Stevie May is just absolutely wild and demonstrates seriously questionable judgement. Our transfer activity this summer has been an utter disaster. We've wasted precious time (and money) on project players and hopeful punts, and brought in barely anyone at all of actual, Premiership-ready quality. The squad is yet again becoming a bloated mess and yet we still look short of quality in almost every key area of the park. This summer was our chance to clear the decks and rebuild - starting with the manager - and we've completely blown it. And we're already on course for another miserable season as a result. Adam Webb: if you want the fans to pay £27 to turn up for games, you need to be brave enough to change this and change it now. This is just nowhere near good enough.

You could see how good Andy was as a player he was almost always in the correct place.I don't see what the big issue was with Andy he was never that blessed with pace and always thought he performed better than most. I wouldn't offer him a new contract but wish him nothing but the best whatever he does carrying on playing or coaching

Just deleted yet another clump of political back-and-forth from this thread. Yet again I'm politely asking that people keep this stuff off this section of the forum. This is the whole reason the Chit Chat section of the site was provided in the first place. To be honest I think some of you need to just think for a second about what you actually want to see getting discussed on a St Johnstone forum. If you want to see it turn into yet another part of the internet where people snipe endlessly back and forth about their own personal politics, it's probably not going to last very much longer. I'm not sure how active the other mods are but I'm not here much at the moment and you can't expect voluntary moderators to be constantly on hand to keep an eye on this stuff. Ultimately this site is what all of you choose to make it.

This window compared to recent ones has been night and day. I'm used to us signing half a dozen 36 year olds on 4 year deals with ACL injuries, an announcement that McRacist has extended his deal until 2047, and then being told there's no money left. Since Simo has been here we've signed 4 players that look genuine quality, one who can do ok if needed, and narrowly missed out on Eremenko for reasons outwith our control. Playing Sprangler feels like a new signing really, because I'm sure if Levein had stayed he'd have got fed up by now and be away. Whether it's enough to bridge the gap to 10th or 11th place remains to be seen, but bearing in mind the last 5 games are against the bottom 5 opponents, I don't feel like it's impossible. I do wonder if Eremenko might have been that trump card that we've been denied though. I hope not. Whatever happens, we are worth watching now, and it was tedious and miserable watching Levein's team.

Carey deserves a standing ovation for just turning up and playing for us just now. Can’t imagine how difficult it would be to work while going through this, his professionalism has been unreal given the circumstances.

Sorry to be Mr Picky but I think it's important for people to remember that Rangers were never demoted. This is something they would like us to think but it twists the actual history of what happened. Rangers died, and a new club using the Rangers name then applied to join the league. And that new club would have been allowed to skip the bottom divisions and enter straight into the top flight were it not for all of us fans making a stand against it.

Yep, a promising young player who was hung out to dry by the manager at the time, and had his confidence destroyed by a coaching set-up that was completely incapable of developing or getting the best out of players. I'm really hoping our days of treating players like that are well and truly in the past.

Please, please, please tell me there's no one left at this stage who still believes all the bollocks about us being better this season and how we're going to score loads more goals and be great to watch and Levein has made wonderful signings and hasn't under any circumstances made a massive arse of the transfer window? We're absolutely rubbish, he's a terrible manager and him and Kirk should both have been sacked months ago. Adam Webb needs to step up and change this immediately. It is never going to work.

Just Cammy MacPherson as far as we know!

It’s not really about “free speech” or even whether he is racist or not. The key issue here is that Robinson is currently under investigation for inciting multiple riots & incidents of violence across the country. People’s lives have been threatened, property destroyed, shops looted. All of which is illegal. To retweet an inflammatory video by someone who is under investigation for orchestrating this illegality when you are a public figure and a role model is not acceptable. People on here are suggesting it’s akin to him tweeting “I think this country has a problem with immigration and needs to get a better handle on it”, or similar. It’s not. He’s absolutely free to have that opinion. He is not free to retweet the views of someone who is under investigation for mass illegality and violence, when those views are allegedly the cause, as it shows potential support for that illegal behaviour and violence.

I will 100% be writing to the club to voice my displeasure over his continued employment at St.Johnstone. I feel really strongly about this as I am at the stage of trying to get my 3 year old son interested in going to football so that I can justify buying season tickets and doing with him what I did for 15 years with my dad every Saturday. I won't be doing that if one of the club "leaders" wants nothing other than my wife, sons and daughters expelled from the country because of their mixed race ethincity. Cammy would have been completely wrong to repost anything to do with Tommy Robinson at any time, but to do it with what has happened over the last two weeks is completely undefensible.

My old tech teacher once told me, ''If you ever hold the opposite opinion from approximately 99.9% of the St Johnstone fanbase, you should maybe refrain from mocking them and instead engage in a period of self-reflection regarding your own views.'' It seemed an oddly specific thing for him to say at the time, but it's starting to make some sense.

Agree with most of what has been written so far, much improved performance last night. With special mentions to Robinson, DJ, Sprangler and Benji who I thought were all excellent. But definitely worth mentioning the performance of Liam Gordon, I thought he was absolutely tremendous, defensively solid and also seemed to spend the night urging the players forward at every opportunity, he even stepped out from defence and played one or two decent forward passes. He's been the subject of a lot of stick this season (some merited, some way over the top) so only fair to acknowledge when he performs well.

Subtitles on Saints TV was mentioned for the interviewer, but it would be a good idea to have that option for the whole videos. One of my relatives is hard of hearing and this would help them greatly. It can be done automatically nowadays, so it shouldn't be too much work. I'm not going over old ground again, but after having said my piece on here, and emailing the club about it, I notice my point about these meetings, and the player of the year type events, being recorded and shared online was never raised. I've been in enough boardroom meetings to know that the minutes published afterwards, rarely accurately convey what happened at the time. So, I give up. I guess you have to be within the city boundaries to be regarded as important. This is my last word on the subject.

87% possession, 53 shots at goal, 1-0, Bozo.

Bloody loved that yesterday. What I've been really impressed with in the last few games is the way we've really dug in and battled all the way to the ends of games, and every player has been chucking their body on the line to stop the opposition from scoring when they've been in the ascendancy. Yes mistakes will always be made but we're now seeing more teamwork happening so that the players help each other out of those mistakes - unlike earlier in the season when it felt like mistakes always led to opposition goals. I think we're really starting to see that Simo's approach is about a lot more than just holding onto the ball and trying to play nice passes around your own half. He also spoke a bit yesterday about how that passing can be used to take the tempo off the opposition and I think we really saw the benefit of that in a game like yesterday's. A whole bunch of teams above us are suddenly going to be looking over their shoulders and getting very nervous. For a while it was looking like some of them were going to be able to coast through to the end of the season but the whole relegation battle is going to be blown wide open if Saints continue as they are. Pity Kilmarnock got the win last night, but I'm bloody certain that it's Dundee we're going to end up catching and overtaking anyway. 😁

We all said that the double win was the fork in the road, and it's turned out to be true. We were at the peak of our powers. We could have attracted the best quality players and made an absolute fortune. It could have been us challenging for third regularly and enjoying constant European campaigns. But no, we had a manager who thought that "just staying in the league" was an achievement. We had a chairman who agreed. We had the wrong people in charge at the wrong time. They won the lottery but didn't cash in the ticket. There is an alternate universe, where Callum gets a gig down south. Then McInnes, who was free at the time, comes back to the club and uses his experience to take us into the big European ties. This gets us in the group stages, money comes in, he makes good signings, and we avoid the situation we're currently in. I always remember in the build up to the home Galatasaray game on the TV when he was a pundit, he literally said, "I love this club". He would have taken the job if it was available. Preston have a lot to answer for. Taking McCann off our hands for cheap, and not going for Davidson as a manager. Here's a video I always remember. Kris Boyd and Andy Walker taking Callum out for a game of golf. Watch the whole thing if you like, but the bit I'm referring to is round about the 15 minute mark. Callum comes away with his "stay in the league" mantra, and Andy Walker actually calls him out. He says we're a top 6 club. And that's how we were viewed at the time. But negative thinking and not willing to push forward brought us down and put us in the situation we are now. Bad decisions are not only costing us this year, they've cost us for the past few seasons. Like I say, this was the sliding doors moment.

Courier reporting compensation agreed with Larne for Lynch, and he'll be our next manager unless there's a "late change of heart". His brother, as assistant, and another coach will come with him from Larne. Apparently he was the top choice from the start but a proper process was followed before rushing in.

I think we are now at the stage where there are only two outcomes for us. The first is that we see significant investment in the playing budget which allows us to attract a better quality of player and the second is relegation. The first is not going to happen, so it looks like the only way we are escaping the rinse and repeat cycle of depression that has engulfed the club for the past three seasons is for the club to be relegated and try to build some positive momentum again in the championship. I cant see any other way at the moment. Every season we are battling to escape relegation which then has an impact on the quality of player that we can sign and makes us less attractive to potential signings meaning we are just caught in the same situation as the season before. This team has relegation written all over it at the moment. Inexperienced goalkeepers, defenders that struggle to defend, a midfield that lacks the ability to control a match and strikers that are temperamental. The sad thing about the whole situation at the moment is that it has all been self inflicted over three years of mismanagement. It started when we accepted an embarrassing deal for Ali McCann and has continued to this day. Not sacking Davidson earlier enough, employing people to key roles at the club who were out of their depth, a lack of investment in key areas such as scouting and training facilities, the decision to give a first time manager (Macca) a three year deal, the decision to then appointment a management team from the Highland League. It goes on and on. The amount of money wasted on substandard players. The fact we have started the season with two inexperienced keepers and not even a specialised coach to assist and improve these young players. Its soul destroying that we are in the position given the success we have achieved in the past ten years both on and off the field. We have let other clubs overtake us in almost every department. The likes of Dundee and St Mirren have better training facilities that us, better recruitment departments and better medical departments. The powers that be have taken their eyes of the ball for too long and allowed the club to stagnate which has led us to where we are today. Webb talks about wanting to grow the home support, but that is never going to happen under Levein. You only need to look at our home form since he came into the job to see that the brand of football and lack of wins will not attract or retain our support. Every time it feels like we are taking a step forward with Levein, we then take two steps back. His inability to make changes during a game, his bizarre use of players (Sprangler, Clark etc) and his strange recruitment during the summer all point towards a man who is not fit for the job. I would sack Kirk and Levein today and look to bring in a manager that is more energetic and ambitious.

I agree but for me it goes higher as well, sacking Kirk and Levein would only solve part of the problem. Gus McPherson and Roddy Grant need to go as well. Yesterday we put two players out on loan , they must have agreed that knowing how poor our bench would be today. They agreed to May going to Livingston, how much would he have been an asset today or even more so next week. The goalkeeper situation is as shambles and, what are they doing to Craig Hepburns career, he had a good season at Luncarty, then Cowdenbeath, he should be on loan to a league 1/2 team and getting games, not the second goalie on our bench, if he even was second , what’s happened to Rae. At the open night, Webb said, not to worry as they wouldn’t take any major decisions without speaking to Geoff first, sorry but that does worry me. Geoff Brown is the biggest asset to my club in my lifetime but he’s now an old man and I d rather they disassociated from the Brown years and did their own thing. Appoint someone they trust to take charge, make it their club.

Just to add to this, it is unfortunately an attitude that has spread throughout society. I have twice reported children at my older son's high school to the police for messages he has received on various social media platforms, with content such as; "go back to china" "your not wanted here" "i hate n******s like you" Pictures of chocolate cheerios packets, with the name changed to "Pakios" (just to add context, my son has no connection to china, and is as white as me - the only hint he is of mixed race is the fact is middle name is "Ocampo") Some of which have been accompanied by threats to "pan your windows in" if your "not gone by tonight". Where do 14 year old kids get the idea that this is acceptable? From figures they look up to (such as football players) amplfying such views. That is why Cammy shouldn't be anywhere near a Saints shirt, now, or in the future as he is part of the problem.

Sit down and let the adults deal with this.

I'm pretty furious that Levein has been allowed to do this to us TBH. He should have been sacked months ago. Instead, he's been trusted with the summer to rebuild the squad and it's looking very much like he's actually, somehow, managed to make us even worse. The budget's been blown yet again, and we're the ones being asked to pay for it with hiked-up ticket prices. He's been wasting his time fannying around playing Football Manager with our club's future and looking for project players to boost his own ego, when every fraction of his energy should have been prioritising bringing in 3 or 4 quality players with the right age and the right experience. Build us a settled team that is strong enough and organised to keep us up. Then you can start supplementing it with one or two punts for the future. Why sign Rae and then immediately start talking about needing a more experienced goalkeeper? Just prioritise the more experienced goalkeeper. Why use up a portion of the budget on Ikpeazu (presumably arriving as a high earner?) when we already had four strikers and other areas of the team were far more important? (He only ever starts one striker anyway!) Why hand two year contracts to Sanders and McPake, who by all accounts hadn't stood out at lower levels? Are these two players better than the young fringe players we already had, e.g. Liam Parker and Taylor Steven? It doesn't look that way so far. The money spent on new contracts for Cammy MacPherson and in my opinion also Graham Carey, should have gone towards recruiting one good left winger and one good central attacking midfielder. The fact that he still hasn't signed anyone to fill the creative/attacking vacancy in the middle of the park is frankly mind-blowing. It's the number one area we desperately need someone in, especially if Stevie May's going to be bizarrely frozen out again. Aaron Essel looks like a really promising player but he's 18 years old, has zero experience of football anywhere in Europe, and is moving here from the other side of the world. Are we seriously pinning our hopes on him playing 90 minutes every single week? He should be someone who's eased gradually into the team, not someone we're building our plans around. Spending a transfer fee on the assistant manager's son. Seriously? Kyle Cameron is hopefully a good signing and a bit closer to the type we should be going for, but honestly, who knows how he's going to do? From what I can see, despite the size of the squad, we still need a goalkeeper, a central defender, a left-back, a left-winger and a central midfielder. Oh, and a manager. The whole thing's a mess and I actually think Macca had a better summer window, signings-wise, than Levein has. I'd expect all of the above from a first-time manager who doesn't know what he's doing, not a guy who's been managing football teams at all sorts of levels for over 25 years.

Give me a Tommy Wright style football - grinding out 14-16 manky, one goal, scraped, wins off Sidibeh’s left arse cheek any day of the week. I don’t care about supporting a club that plays free flowing football, scores heaps of goals or gets me off my seat every two minutes. I want a team that has an identity and one that I am proud to say I support. We’ve not had that since May 2020. Bring in players who want to play for the club and stay here for 4/5/6 years. Players who aren’t prima donna’s but take pride in their work. Defenders who die for a clean sheet, and strikers who want everyone in the team to get as many goals as them.