EastinWest

Hello, Long-time viewer, very infrequent poster here. Just wanted to say a big thanks to everyone involved in this. It's an outstanding effort and I'm looking forward to getting involved as I'm sure many others are. Whether 500, 5000 or 15000 do it doesn't matter, all involved should be proud of what they have done. Tomorrow is a great day and I for one will be twirling my scarf with the best of them. One thing to say is that the Turkish sides can do that because they rarely have big away crowds to compete with. We'll be outnumbered by about 10,000 tomorrow and I'm sure United fans aren't just going to sit back and listen so we're really going to need to burst the vocal boxes and just keep going if they try and drown us out. I'm up for ruining a larynx for this game and I'm sure everyone else is too! See and hear you all tomorrow....

I hear what you are saying, but bar the drinking bit, this is essentially telling people to do more of the same, and it's the same old that's left McDiarmid quieter than a convention of silent monks. Either nothing gets done and the same old, same old continues to happen, or you try and bring together like minded saints to make a go of it. The Turkish fans linked on YouTube are an inspiration and I'll bet they don't just achieve that by sitting in one part of the stand, having a few bevvies and hoping that random other folk will start singing with them. As I've mentioned before, I am a Saints 'outsider' who regularly sits at the appropriate part of the stand when I can get along but it takes more than that to make people feel part of something. A list of names and actually trying to do more than turn up might sound a bit much but while there's a lot to dislike about the Green Brigade, I know some of the more moderate guys involved in this and they have banded together and created a dialogue with their club which has achieved some real positive outcomes. Celtic are a club who could happily ignore their fans as they know there's always someone else wanting in (maybe less so this season). I do take Blue-Heavens point about us not being the same culture as the Turks but I would also point out that the atmosphere at away games, particularly the big matches (Hearts in the cup springs to mind) shows that people do want to sing and shout, but it takes a certain safety in numbers and a little bit of leadership to make them relax into it. One man shouting 'Wendy Who?' randomly every 15 minutes is commendable and currently essential, but it's also not quite enough. We could easily debate the cultural, financial, social aspects of why Saints don't sing, or we could kick around positive ideas of what we want and how we could achieve it on this thread and see about trying something. As far as I can see, our current supporting culture is negative, uninspiring and will do little to entice the young lads to come back when so much else competes for their time. We don't want to end up a Celtic or Rangers selling 'a way of life' via Saints, but it would be good to become a support, rather than disparate supporters.

The point about kids I can relate to. When I came to the games I never really tuned into the fact that Rangers beat us every time, that Harry Curran wasn't world class or even that Alan Moore wasn't very tall. I just loved the buzz of the crowd and the noise of the chanting but there never seemed to be a way to get involved in this and I just became another shy hand-clapper. So, aye, cheerleaders, song-sheets the lot would be great. First up would still be a list of folk who'd be up for getting together pre and during games I reckon. Then talking to the club would be a really good move.

Ultras is oot. Fine by me. It's not the name, it's what we do that's important.

Great stuff from the Turkish lads on here. Having been to a Fenerbahce (sic?) game, I can relate to the organisation and effort they put in to supporting their clubs over there. There was constant chanting and it seemed that there was a real bond between fan and player. Real recognition and support, not clapping them on the pitch then yelling at them to ***k off for a bad first touch. The point made about the pointlessness of the Scottish league is also true to some extent but I think I'm right in thinking that only one team from outside Istanbul has won the Turkish league, at least in modern times and given the experience with the ESES fans was so positive, maybe that's only an issue because we make it so. Maybe going along to have a good time, to be supporters and, if we're lucky see our team win a game could be enough. Our chairmen and administrators have done what they can to choke the joy out of the game, but we have also been complicit in letting this happen with a lack of effort. As a semi-outsider (never have lived in Perth, ties to the team are family based) I have always found the McDiarmid crowd frustratingly fragmented and unfriendly. As a youngster I just wanted someone to stand/sit with, someone to tell me the words to the song and someone to share an experience with for 90 minutes, even if that experience was cheering on a frontline of Dyron Daal and John Stewart. The ESES guys are absolutely right in saying that we have to start small and build up from there. It needs leaders, it needs simple chants, it needs a focus on the matchday experience not just the match. Throwing this out there but I would think that we need: 1. An informal list of supporters who would be up for starting up an 'Ultras' group 2. Plans for meeting before the game en masse (even if en masse means 30 people to start with) 3. Agreed, simple chants with agreed 'cheerleaders' 4. Better links between our supporters and fellow teams supporters. For the 90 minutes we can all pretend to hate each other but really, with collaboration and meet-ups between supporter groups the matchday experience could become a whole lot better. This might be a longer term one. Any thoughts? Maybe worth saying that a lot of my work is based around bringing people together to form groups, hence my interest in this subject. I've always found the idea of being a St Johnstone fan, someone who shares experiences and cheers on their team, rarely matches the reality of the McDiarmid experience. I'd love to attend the ground knowing that even if it's nil-nil on the coldest January day going, I'd still get a chance to have a shout and a sing afore I head home. Aware I'm not a regular poster or indeed known to any of you, but all of my muckle posts are written with the best of intents.

100% agree with this. A 'sit down and clap' section, a family section and a 'singing' section would be fantastic.

Surprised this thread does not have more responses to be honest. The recent Rangers debacle showed that in my opinion, we have we have lost our way as a footballing nation with a lack of awareness among those who lead the game about what is really important in Scottish Football: a meaningful match-day experience where teams have something to play for and fans can express themselves. Instead our teams play in uncompetitive leagues, in lego stadiums situated away from communities that you need to drive to and there is a genuine shortage of roots between club and the youngsters who could be the next generation. I've been lucky to attend games in Rome, Istanbul, Dortmund, Tblisi, Berlin and even beautiful Birmingham. What always stood out to me as being different from most Scottish football games was that the fans acted as a group who were clearly going along with having a good time and supporting their team as their main priority. At each game this attitude led to coordinated singing, a feeling of being amongst similarly minded people (if only for 90 minutes). In comparison, the atmosphere at places like McDiarmid, St Mirren Park and New Douglas Park is an embarrassment to the teams who play there, and the fans who attend (including myself of course). I've taken friends from places like Copenhagen, Karachi and Rome along to Saints games and to a man they all comment on the lack of singing, the lack of togetherness of the fans and the lack of a real pre-match get together (and of course the weather but not a lot we can do about that). I'm not from Perth and in some ways feel like an outsider in the Saints crowd and often arrive not long before games at McDiarmid so don't know what goes on around the city but I never get the feeling of a collective group of Saints fans, instead it feels like a slightly cluster of individuals and friends. This is no criticism of people, the guys who give it a go in terms of singing deserve real kudos. I mentioned the Rangers situation at the start of this ramble and the flip-side of that is it showed there is a real passion for Scottish Football out there that was slowly being strangled. I feel strongly that this energy should not be lost and should now be applied to two things: 1. Reforming Scottish football with the creation of energised competitive leagues the priority over money (can you imagine how exciting the 1st Division would have been if there had been play-offs when we were down there?!) 2. Awakening both the individual and collective fan-bases to bring life, tunes and chanting back to the grounds. Let those who want to sit and clap and moan do so, but lets find a way to let those who want to open their throats and cheer on their team regardless of the scoreline do so. For Saints and this thread, how do you achieve the second? Who are our 'leading' fans? How do you bring together those who attend into a group outside and inside the ground? How do we start a dialogue with the club and the Tayside police to break down some of the negativity they bring to the stands? Realistically, we may only be talking about a few hundred like-minded souls sitting together every 90 minutes, but holy f**k wouldn't that be better than the muted and disparate groups we have just now? I hate to say it but politics aside, the Green Brigade have shown the way on this one, cohesive and coherently reclaiming their own match day experience. Can we do the same?

Quick heads up for the fans heading through, there are roadworks galore near Glasgow Airport which is the same junction for St Mirren Park so best give plenty of time to travel through.

The old codger from Brechin who tried to push me down into my seat then shouted at me when I jumped up to celebrate our goal. I stayed seated out of respect for them the whole game but a goal is a goal. He also decided that Reynolds was the worst striker in the world ever and gave the lad pelters even before the miss. The worst kind of Saints fan.

Just wanted to echo all the sentiments on here. The Temple was the site that allowed me to feel like I wasn't the sole Saints fan living out west, got me through the dark days when I could barely afford to get to any games and has been a constant source of enjoyment for years now. Sad but understandable that you've chosen to quit. All I can say is a very genuine thanks for all that you've done. I don't think I would be anywhere near as committed a Saints fan if it wasn't for sites like the Temple. All the best.

Thanks again Sean. I'd be happy to discuss the merits of any saints player, tactic or your favourite plastic seat at McDiarmid. I'm not happy to get engaged in a mildly aggressive debate about the merits of this thread, it's the kind of nonsense that undermines the good work done by the organisers of this forum. I'll just re-iterate that while yes, this is another whole thread about a certain individual, it is a thread which aims to bring together those who would like a change in the current tone and focus of the debates and discussions. Unfortunately to say the things I wanted to say, I had to start a thread and put across an idea that, while in the short term it raises the 101 issue one more time, it does also provide a more pro-active long term solution, that being ignore and enjoy the decent posts of other saints fans on here. I think that makes sense? If you'd rather this was an aggressive confrontational place, I could try if oyu like? Let's see... You are a bad man and I think you may possibly look awkward in bad lighting. How was that? Nae good? Just not my kind of thing unfortunately. If you have any other views on the thread, feel free to share, but leave me as a person out of it.

Just a quickie to say that the last two posts kinda get my point. And for the avoidance of any doubt, can I just say I really don't care much about 101, as the number of posts I have will show I am a casual observer of this fine site (and many thanks to the guys who run it). What I care about is having somewhere to find genuine, friendly debate and sharing of info about saints which is what I used to find on here. At the moment we have one man enjoying a rather paltry time in a pretty small limelight while every other thread becomes dominated by people reacting to it. Gets rather tedious. As for the fellow who called me a 'front bum', well I'll be a better man and think my reaction rather than type it.

Just a quick suggestion here. I have read a few threads over the past two days, many of which feature some genuinely happy saints fans and some of which feature Mr 101. In the threads featuring Mr 101 his messages continue to feature the usual attempts at rather tired shock jockery, or at least that is what I hope it is. Otherwise, my sympathies go out to the man. Anyway, many of his threads also trail that he is going to enlighten us with what really happened against Rangers. The very fact that he is trailing his own threads with a view to stoking up interest suggests to me he is a shock jock wind up merchant who loves baiting people and thus, and this is just an idea not an order, can I suggest that if Mr 101 does indeed attempt to enlighten us all this coming Friday, we all refrain from commenting on his thoughts. They are his and he is entitled to air them, but if anybody thinks he posts for any other reason than ego and amusement, well... I'm sure he will stick around the forum and this is fair enough but the sooner the debate and discussion on here moves away from the increasingly insulting threads posted by Mr 101 the better. My feelings on this come from the fact that this forum was the vehicle for a fabulous day out at Dunfermline last season and was a great source of information for me when away travelling last year. It is now a rather narrowly focused moaning shop and I personally feel it is far worse off for it. From the moment Coyle took over, this has been a wonderful few years to be a Saints fan and we will enjoy far harder times than this. I'd like to focus on that from now on. Anyway, just an idea. Weeds do not grow unless they receive water after all...

Sadly I am serious. Aware that it's not a common viewpoint and also more than aware of the flaws but for me I'm happy for my team to try and play football at the level it can play at. By that I mean I'd rather be back in Division 1 finishing second to Gretna or watching Hardie smash and grab the 3 points at Broadwood again rather than clinging on for SPL survival like St Mirren or Hamilton. Obviously 101 believes we are playing below our level because of the manager. I disagree. I just won't go on and on and on about because I know the difference between fact and observation. We are St Johnstone, we'll be back down there one day, and then we'll be back up, that's the way it goes and I'm not going to get so het up about it all.

Ingenious stuff, but Brown took McGhee's team, who did pretty well if I remember, and gave them back the belief that a poor manager had taken from them. They were and remain a good, established SPL team, they just lost their way for a while. Despite all the claims we have a great squad, there are plenty of players in the Well team who are superior to what we have right now. O'Brien or Morais anyone? Gus McPherson has managed on a fear principle: fear of losing. I'm a fan who prefers excitement over league positions and would rather my team went out to try and win rather than attempt to choke the life out of each game a la Gus and Billy. Those Bobby Williamson clones are a bane on this league and I would have them nowhere near my team and I suspect Mr 101 is nowt more than a stirrer to suggest otherwise. His reaction to the semi-final defeat when he went a tad apoplectic about the defensive football would back me up. No? I am all for my team trying to play football and the manager experimenting with the formation and getting the occassional bad result rather than battening down the hatches and hoping to scrape a 1-0 week in, week out. If it turns out we play our way back to the SFL, I don't really care, we're still Saints fans and we'll still be at the ground each week.