Another shop bites the dust...

[Shaky Toon Saint]

Sad to hear about Monsoon closing. Great shop for handbags. I know that sounds really girly, I'm sorry!! 

[rickardo]

Sad to hear about Monsoon closing. Great shop for handbags. I know that sounds really girly, I'm sorry!! 

Aye especially since your a 6 ft 5 ,17 stone welder called Rab. But hey ho. 

[perthandproud]

Primark £397800.00

M & S £594k

Next £251k

imaging having to find that kind of money before you even open your doors, then insurances, heating, power, staff costs etc etc, beyond me how some shops survive.

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by perthandproud

[perthandproud]

All Stirling: -

Celtic shop  79k

Debenhams 995k (Debenhams Perth 433k)

Ann Summers (never been in so no idea of size) 129k, thats alot of errrm stuff they have to sell.

Primark 410k

Amounts go by floor area and other factors like location so across Scotland it should be consistent'ish, but im guessing they could set them at whatever they want to make a town or city more attractive for businesses to move into. 

If you have alot of shops empty, to me it means your rates are to high to make it attractive for anybody to move in to. Charge what you can get away with. The only problem with that is if you get a recession and nobody can afford the rates, do you revalue them all the time?

 

[babychunder]

The rateable value doesn't change very often, I think 2010 was the last time and 2017 the next. The amount you pay is set by the government, its 40 - odd pence per pound of the rateable value. There are all sorts of discounts available, e.g. if you are a small business, or located in the countryside.

The system seems pretty inflexible and based on the number of empty shops in some towns it doesn't seem to be working very well. Not sure if the landlord pays the full whack of business rates if the premises are empty, if so that would encourage them to set a reasonable rent.

[perthandproud]

Not sure if the landlord pays the full whack of business rates if the premises are empty, if so that would encourage them to set a reasonable rent.

yes, the landlord is meant to pay if the property is empty after 3 months or something like that, but instead of penalising the landlord for an empty property wouldn't it be better for there to be a complete exemption if the property is empty, an empty property could be a huge millstone around a landlords neck. Whether it be a house or a shop the quicker a landlord can get somebody in the better.

[Jamie_Beatson]

Dunno if this has been said, but you don't pay the full rateable value as your rates. It's a percentage of that which I think is set by central government.

Not surprised Monsoon's rates are far higher given that the shop is far bigger than Officer's Club, probably almost twice the size before you take into account stockroom etc. Don't know if having a High Street frontage affects that as well.

[Perthsaint1977]

Non Domestic Rates are calculated by taking the Rateable Value and multiplying it by the Rate Poundage that the Scottish Government sets yearly.

Bigger companies are hit with a supplement on top of their Rate Poundage so they pay more.

All rateable values are published by the Local assessor board (Tayside Joint Valuation Board for Tayside obviously)

All Non Domestic Rates in Scotland are collected by all 32 Local Authorities then put back to the Scottish Government and all the money is pooled together. It is then redistributed back to all 32 Local Authorities (normally a lot less than that local authority may have collected)

Jamie, unfortunately, you do pay the full rates unless you are eligible for a reduction (small business bonus relief or any of the other reliefs (usually for empty properties) but these also will be getting changed from next Financial Year)

The post earlier quoting the rates of the Officers Club, Monsoon, Next and Primark are all incorrect. The poster has assumed the Rateable Value is the amount of rates that they pay. This is incorrect. This figures is used in the calculation IE as he said, Primark Rateable Value is £397,800.00 but their rates bill is only approximately £196,000.

The same poster quotes Monsoon's Rates as £156,300. This is completely incorrect. The Rateable Value for their store is £39,700 and therefore their yearly Business Rates are just over £19,500.

Hope this helps

 

 

[myDarlingBeefeater]

Non Domestic Rates are calculated by taking the Rateable Value and multiplying it by the Rate Poundage that the Scottish Government sets yearly.

Bigger companies are hit with a supplement on top of their Rate Poundage so they pay more.

All rateable values are published by the Local assessor board (Tayside Joint Valuation Board for Tayside obviously)

All Non Domestic Rates in Scotland are collected by all 32 Local Authorities then put back to the Scottish Government and all the money is pooled together. It is then redistributed back to all 32 Local Authorities (normally a lot less than that local authority may have collected)

Jamie, unfortunately, you do pay the full rates unless you are eligible for a reduction (small business bonus relief or any of the other reliefs (usually for empty properties) but these also will be getting changed from next Financial Year)

The post earlier quoting the rates of the Officers Club, Monsoon, Next and Primark are all incorrect. The poster has assumed the Rateable Value is the amount of rates that they pay. This is incorrect. This figures is used in the calculation IE as he said, Primark Rateable Value is £397,800.00 but their rates bill is only approximately £196,000.

The same poster quotes Monsoon's Rates as £156,300. This is completely incorrect. The Rateable Value for their store is £39,700 and therefore their yearly Business Rates are just over £19,500.

Hope this helps

 

 

Thanks. Interesting stuff.

[perthandproud]

Just quoting what was on the saa website perthsaint property ref 738716 has a rateable value of 156k?

I have no idea what anybody pays in actual rates but always interesting to hear from somebody that knows, so how is it calculated and what is the purpose of the rateable value then? Is this so they can go up to 100% if they wish to?

whats happening next year especially with the small business bonus scheme, I know loads of small companies that are only able to survive because of this.

[Perthsaint1977]

Just quoting what was on the saa website perthsaint property ref 738716 has a rateable value of 156k?

I have no idea what anybody pays in actual rates but always interesting to hear from somebody that knows, so how is it calculated and what is the purpose of the rateable value then? Is this so they can go up to 100% if they wish to?

whats happening next year especially with the small business bonus scheme, I know loads of small companies that are only able to survive because of this.

That's no problem.

yes the website you are on is the correct one - it will give you every single non domestic (business) in the areas Rateable Value.

It is calculated by multiplying this Rateable Value with the Rate Poundage (48 pence). This sum works out what the business rates are. Larger properties, IE ones with a rateable value over £35,000 they are subject to a rate poundage of 49.3 pence.

The Rateable is a value that an Assessor (independent from Local Authority / Scottish Government) places on each non domestic property. Various factors are taken into consideration by the assessor in determining this, but effectively they base the decision on what the property would likely receive in rent for a year on the open market. Obviously size/location etc are also taken into account.

Next year, as in the Financial Year that comes in to effect 1 April 2016, not very much is changing. Most small businesses, IE with Rateable Value of under £10,000 all receive 100% relief under the Small business relief scheme. The Rateable Value for the big properties will be doubling i am led to believe following the most recent budget statement, so these big companies will be hammered again to make up a short fall in the governments budget.

later this year, like the Council Tax, Non Domestic Rates as a whole will be under review to see if the current system remains, or they tweak it, scrap it etc.

any other questions happy to help answer.

[Papa Jack]

All Stirling: -

Celtic shop  79k

Debenhams 995k (Debenhams Perth 433k)

Ann Summers (never been in so no idea of size) 129k, thats alot of errrm stuff they have to sell.

Primark 410k

Amounts go by floor area and other factors like location so across Scotland it should be consistent'ish, but im guessing they could set them at whatever they want to make a town or city more attractive for businesses to move into. 

If you have alot of shops empty, to me it means your rates are to high to make it attractive for anybody to move in to. Charge what you can get away with. The only problem with that is if you get a recession and nobody can afford the rates, do you revalue them all the time?

 

I've been told that's it's not important...

 

[canuck_saint]

@perthsaint1977   Appreciate the info, any idea how it works out for charities in large stores?

[tessa]

Don't get home much but my lad was there as Christmas says the town looks a bit seedy now compared to when we left 1991

[Perthsaint1977]

@perthsaint1977   Appreciate the info, any idea how it works out for charities in large stores?

Yes of course. This will only relate to Scotland though. Although I expect England to be similar I am not 100% sure.

Charitable Bodies can apply and receive 80% Mandatory relief - but the property must be occupied by a charity or trustee of a charity AND the property must be used for charitable purposes.

Charitable purposes can be grouped into the following: -

• Relief of Poverty
• Advancement of Religion
• Advancement of Education
• Other purpose, which is of a benefit to the community.

So if a charitable organisation can satisfy the above, then they will receive an 80% reduction to their Non Domestic Rates Charge.

On top of this, should the above organisation be able to satisfy that they are not for profit IE not making lots of money, then the local Authority can top this up with an additional 20% and therefore meaning zero Non Domestic Rates to pay,

Charity Shops like the British Heart Foundation etc are treated differently.

Like the above, Charity shops can qualify for 80% Mandatory Relief again, but need to satisfy that the following is met: -

• Wholly/Mainly used for the sale of goods which are donated to the charity AND
• Proceeds of the sale of goods are used for purposes of the charity.

Each Local Authority then has its own policies as to whether they award an additional 20% top up or not. This is because the additional top up of 20% is funded by the Council Tax payers.

In Perth & Kinross, Charity Shops are not awarded the 20% top, therefore it is a misconception that Charity Shops do not pay Rates, as they do , albeit it a reduced rate.

Of the top of my head, Fife Council award the 20% top up and all other 30 local authorities have their own policies.

I hope this helps

 

 

[canuck_saint]

tx PS1977 - i now understand even less than i thought i did!!

the whole system seems like a total mess. joined up thinking across councils might be a good idea.?

I volunteer with a national charity, in their local store - thousands going to deserving causes rather than council rates, id hope more people would support that

[Perthsaint1977]

No problem Canuck-saint

The whole Rating system is effectively the same system that has been around since the 60s, with very little tweaks.

It is all under Review over the next year or so I would expect it be brought into the 21st century.

but knowing the Scottish government, I wouldn't hold my breath that they get it right!

[THE LARK SAINT]

Read about a new place called "The Range" going into St Catherine's/ And some other place .....

 

The Old High street... pedestrianise that and around the church, compulsory purchase it or something...anything!

Already plans well underway for this area with the Mill Quarter. Which includes  Multi storey car park. Student accommodation. Cinema. Gym and shops.150 jobs and 350 construction jobs.York based  Expresso property have admitted notice to council for planning permission 

[THE LARK SAINT]

The Green Room are opening  second pub in the old Cafe Noir building 

The Venue

[slf]

The Green Room are opening  second pub in the old Cafe Noir building 

The Venue

 

when ?

[THE LARK SAINT]

when ?

Spring  2016

[slf]

 

Spring  2016

Braw .ye can buy me a beer chief

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

The Green Room are opening  second pub in the old Cafe Noir building 

The Venue

i heard they had taken over brennans.

[Steve Zissou]

 

i heard they had taken over brennans.

Would be good if they did. Brennans has been a dive for years. Went in the Green Room a couple of times over Christmas - thought it was really nice inside, and had a good selection of booze. They seem to be doing pretty well for themselves anyway

[Edstar101]

Where is this Green Room of which you all speak?