ANDY5565 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 who gets the falklands and gibralter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indicator Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Late 2014 - Well, Mr Salmond can create a lot of ill-feeling both North and South of the border in that length of time. Might even be enough to convince folks on both sides that a break up the union is in everybody's interest. In fact if Mr 'Cameron' has his head screwed on he should start organising a referendum down here in the wording he chooses. edited to add: On behalf of the english that is. Edited January 11, 2012 by Indicator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myDarlingBeefeater Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Okay you say it's nonsense.. Can you explain why please?? Do you know for sure that we would either (a) just be allowed to continue with membership of the EU or... ( have to re-apply. Because if we do have to re-apply, we will most definitely have to adopt the Euro. That is a condition which is set in stone for NEW members.. Please feel free to direct me to some independently published facts on what WILL happen. I too like the idea of HS. As far as I am aware though, Alex salmon and the SNP have consistently said and independent Scotland WOULD want to be a full member of the EU.. Again, feel free to enlighten me on this should I be wrong.. Or is NONSENSE all you have??? I do have a fair amount of nonsense, right enough! Nobody knows about staying or re-applying. Can you direct me to the stone that says new EU members must adopt the Euro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carse of Gowrie Saint Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 who gets the falklands and gibralterThey stay with what left of the UK. How are they all going to survive without us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 lets make sure everyone knows the facts. And if the people of this country are stupid enough to fall for the SNP spin and vote for total seperation, I look forward in the years to come to telling you all what a bunch of bloody idiots you were as we descend into chaos and bankruptcy.. My hope is though, that there are far more intelligent Scots than morons.. You start with a very good point - let everyone get the facts. Then you go and show your true colours with some pathetic slander about morons. You talk of SNP spin as if they are the only party that create and use it. My view on it is that a massive amount of INDEPENDENT research has to be put into it, I don't think everything could come out by 2014 and I would not trust any part of the press to report on it in an unbiased view and I would not trust it from the Scottish or British government. looking at things from the English point of view what have we got that they want? I am asking this in that they are always complaining that they subsidize us and yet all 3 English parties want to keep Scotland in the union. I have often asked this question as well - if we are so poor and have such an inability to look after ourselves why would they want us? Would it not be better for Britain to get rid of us and all the money they 'gift' us. Also what about all the money that comes from UK into Scotland for public spending etc. This is the information I would like to see - how much comes up and how much is generated by Scots. My main problem with independence is that too many people are influenced by the press and this may have an effect the future of an independent Scotland. I don't know if Independence would ever be achievable but more fiscal and social responsibility must be passed to the Scottish government and I hope that is something this SNP government can achieve. Back on topic - It is a tough question concerning those who no longer live here but since you made the homecoming such a failure I doubt Alex has time for you any more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 They stay with what left of the UK. How are they all going to survive without us. They could get some revenue by putting some duty on products sold in Gibraltar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubands House Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 http://www.zazzle.co.uk/keep_calm_and_vote_yes_mug-168119351984536024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubands House Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) The Brit based media will do it,s upmost to wreck a decent debate on the issue. The headline on channle 4s website regarding there interview with alex salmond is nothing short of shocking. Thank god that nowadays we can report the truth, and the people will learn this through a huge information network that should water down the english medias goverment fed one sided view.. Bring it on... http://www.channel4.com/news/salmond-you-keep-scots-bank-debt-well-keep-the-oil-money The one sided view on Faisal islams report on here is apparent. Edited January 12, 2012 by Hubands House Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarmy Arab Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 The Brit based media will do it,s upmost to wreck a decent debate on the issue. The headline on channle 4s website regarding there interview with alex salmond is nothing short of shocking. Thank god that nowadays we can report the truth, and the people will learn this through a huge information network that should water down the english medias goverment fed one sided view.. Bring it on... http://www.channel4.com/news/salmond-you-keep-scots-bank-debt-well-keep-the-oil-money The one sided view on Faisal islams report on here is apparent. I don't see whats so shocking about this story...it will be a negotiated settlement in the end, and UK debts are exactly that UK debts, Scotland would need to pay its share. I'm unconvinced about the need for an 'independent' Scotland as I feel there are far more important issues facing us than merely which flag we live under. What will be the difference if we are 'independent'? What will it mean? Convince me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carse of Gowrie Saint Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I don't see whats so shocking about this story...it will be a negotiated settlement in the end, and UK debts are exactly that UK debts, Scotland would need to pay its share. I'm unconvinced about the need for an 'independent' Scotland as I feel there are far more important issues facing us than merely which flag we live under. What will be the difference if we are 'independent'? What will it mean? Convince me! No more deaths and injuries in wars that have nothing to do with us recognition of being an independent country rather than 'Britain' accountable for own failures and successes Oil and Whisky revenue Team Scotland at Olympics 2016 I better stop I'm getting excited about getting my 1st Scottish passport:razz: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientsaint Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I don't see whats so shocking about this story...it will be a negotiated settlement in the end, and UK debts are exactly that UK debts, Scotland would need to pay its share. I'm unconvinced about the need for an 'independent' Scotland as I feel there are far more important issues facing us than merely which flag we live under. What will be the difference if we are 'independent'? What will it mean? Convince me! I would hazard a guess that deals could be negotiated with other countries for investing in all types of work in Scotland -perhaps even getting the big businesses to relocate to th Scottish capital rather than basing itself in Englands independant area -LONDON..........but there is something that Cameron and his parrot and their minnions are worried about when Independance is mentioned -otherwise why go ape-shit just now......I would have thought they would be glad to see the back of the Scots.......interesting eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1884 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm hoping my Auld Dear lives long enough for me to require a passport in order to visit her in her home land of England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubands House Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I don't see whats so shocking about this story...it will be a negotiated settlement in the end, and UK debts are exactly that UK debts, Scotland would need to pay its share. I'm unconvinced about the need for an 'independent' Scotland as I feel there are far more important issues facing us than merely which flag we live under. What will be the difference if we are 'independent'? What will it mean? Convince me! That never again will our country be subject to the likes off margaret thatcher who forced on scotland policys that were not in the Act of union. That the ripple effect of invesment will start in edingburgh and not london. That i will watch the news in canada and see pictures of gales in "england" when the footage is of scotland..(that,s how they see us england not britain) That scotland will be better off in 20 years and not worse off than the 20 years previous. My kids will understand why i moved them across the atlantic to give them hope of a better future( and beleve me it is). I now live in an oil rich provance and life is good with lots of jobs, i know somewhere else that could be like that....... Hope that helps and the debate is good fun...cheers.c Edited January 13, 2012 by Hubands House Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY5565 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 its time to rekindle l' Auld alliance! France goes to lengthhy and costly messures to obtain oil from the globe all over and am sure they would be more than intrested in ours. not just oil...France is powerful whatever you maybe led to belive with auld Victorian and duke o wellington typical english imperial propoganja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY5565 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 i am a long lost political refugee from Thatchers bbbbritain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Personally I don't think independence will get through but I think Devolution max will. Very interesting few years ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 and when will the option of 'Devo Max' be offered to the Scottish electorate? So first a Yes/No - then what if a No? - a 'No Change'/'Devo Max' sometime down the road afterwards? - but how long afterwards?? Referendums don't come yearly - expect at least a decade or two between referendums. I suspect if the vote in a Y/N referendum was Yes then all Yes voters would be clear that actually a Yes - being advisory - would actually be a Yes to 'Devo Max' - certainly in the first instance - see how it goes for a decade or two then a pure Y/N on independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubands House Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Personally I don't think independence will get through but I think Devolution max will. Very interesting few years ahead. You will like this mainstand...? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/12/david-cameron-scottish-referendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish i was Joe McGurn Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 The lib send will be the ones eventually pushing for devo max. It's not far off what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 and when will the option of 'Devo Max' be offered to the Scottish electorate? So first a Yes/No - then what if a No? - a 'No Change'/'Devo Max' sometime down the road afterwards? - but how long afterwards?? Referendums don't come yearly - expect at least a decade or two between referendums. I suspect if the vote in a Y/N referendum was Yes then all Yes voters would be clear that actually a Yes - being advisory - would actually be a Yes to 'Devo Max' - certainly in the first instance - see how it goes for a decade or two then a pure Y/N on independence. Really don't know it would need to be at the same time, but as you say 1 is the ideal route to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slf Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 i vote jock marnoch tax exile party independence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubands House Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16529516 Two and a half mins of patronising sh--e. This is how the bbc will add to the debate from now on in i presume ? We need facts..! The truth..! Oh no they are now going to ban scottish bank notes..!!! Christ they have refused to take them for years.. http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish_independence_referendum_treasury_threat_to_future_of_scottish_bank_notes_1_2053525 Edited January 13, 2012 by Hubands House Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 1No more deaths and injuries in wars that have nothing to do with us 2recognition of being an independent country rather than 'Britain' 3accountable for own failures and successes 4Oil and Whisky revenue 5Team Scotland at Olympics 2016 I better stop I'm getting excited about getting my 1st Scottish passport:razz: 1I bet we would still be involved with this whether we are independant or not 2I would also imagine that it would still end up being called britain, being independent may look different on a piece of paper but to the rest of the world its still britain. we would probably have less say as a result of being independent, I really cant imagine obama or merkel etc all coming to edinburgh each month for a chat. as the uk we can have a say in world affairs 3accountable??? like any politician is ever accountable - you'll have a new person to blame but its not going to suddenly become good. does it matter if its Mr Smith in westminster or Mr Jones in Edinburgh - its still going to be exactly the same 4As I understand it (working for an oil company) we would lose out on this 5Not necessarily, for many sports (including mine) scotland will have more participants at london2012 than for 2016 due to the way countries have to earn places. it maybe easier for teams to enter but certaining for individual sports i suspect scotland will be worse off. Just because its a seperate country doesnt mean that they get to participate in all the olympic sports - in most cases you still have to qualify. I would also argue the funding will disappear for sport too - currently I represent scotland and was at commonwealth events in India - i get all that funded currently. I wont be supporting independance as I dont see why we needed, while many other places are trying to join up and work together and share common interests - we in scotland seem to be obsessed with going the other way. people may or may not like england, but collectively we are far better together, we have the same money, language, interests, past times, health system, transport...etc What is the point of tearing all this apart. It should also be added that if independence means getting the euro and being even more tied up in europe then thats a good enough reason by its self to say no to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarmy Arab Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) No more deaths and injuries in wars that have nothing to do with us recognition of being an independent country rather than 'Britain' accountable for own failures and successes Oil and Whisky revenue Team Scotland at Olympics 2016 I better stop I'm getting excited about getting my 1st Scottish passport:razz: Jumbo makes some interesting observations on this, here are mine; 1. I have sympathy with the point you are making, but remain unconvinced the SNP or any constitutional change will withdraw Scotland from UK defence commitments, indeed, most pro independence politicians begin to fluff their lines and obscure their reasoning when asked out right about defence, and many of the other essential elements of a sovereign nation. 2. Scotland has a rich and unique global profile already. 3. Not really any more accountable than we are at the moment....all the political parties are pretty much the same (including the SNP) pro business, neo liberals who will never follow the Scandanavian model of high wage high tax econoimies, despite constantly drawing comparisons. 4. Oil can range from $20 per barrel on Monday to $200 per barrrel by Wednesday, it would be foolish to believe that we could plan and orchestrate an economy pegged too closely or dependent on such a volitile resource. 5. I really could not care less about the gravy train that is the Olympics, its a effn scandal that billions of public money have been redirected from projects for the needy, to create a short boom in tourism and a 'legacy' of gated communities for the rich in London, -no matter who is competing in the games. You can get a Scottish passport at any good tartan kitsch shop along with shortbread and novelty tartan haggis gonks! None of this means I would not vote for increased powers for the Scottish parliament...but again I remain unconvinced the constitutional bun fight that will dominate politics for the next 2 years is a worthwhile exercise. Edited January 13, 2012 by Smarmy Arab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarmy Arab Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yep. Completely reshaped our cultural identity over at least...oh...5 centuries. Far too fast, how dare it happen so slowly. It's only meant to take 50 years at most Missing the point Herts. Culture is in constant flux, things change quickly these days, due mainly to technological prowess and mobility.... conservative efforts to drag culture backwards are futile and forlorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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