Abernethy Saint Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Billy Dodds being hit with a bill for unpaid tax would be a glorious thing. Billy Dodds being hit with anything would be Braw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Billy Dodds being hit with anything would be Braw.Gary Bollan's left boot would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I was thinking more along the lines of a train Dr Christmas Jones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Either they are the same club or they're not. The way they see it, when it comes to the tax and debts, they're not. When it comes to the trophies and titles, they are.Cheating bastards they should have their history erased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixties saintee Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Great isint it pantomime started early this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Either they are the same club or they're not. The way they see it, when it comes to the tax and debts, they're not. When it comes to the trophies and titles, they are.Cheating bastards they should have their history erased.Football authorities say there is not a mechanism for removing their cups etc. Think they mean there is no desire.aAt least is now official. Cheating pays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south inch Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Google Tour de France past winners and you will find a neat line drawn through the name of one Lance Armstrong. If there is an Honours Board at Hampden I feel sure a sign writer could easily do the same with the name Rangers and an engraver would be happy to fix the League Trophy and the Scottish Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indicator Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I wonder if Steve, or Geoff have ever considered the option of using a Holding Company a ploy which clearly confers the illusion of immortality wrt football clubs.Just to be on the safe side you understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOODLUM65 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Football authorities say there is not a mechanism for removing their cups etc. Think they mean there is no desire.aAt least is now official. Cheating pays.So in essence there is nought to stop the said cheating Barstewards doing the same thing again!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AthensSaint Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I wonder if Steve, or Geoff have ever considered the option of using a Holding Company a ploy which clearly confers the illusion of immortality wrt football clubs.Just to be on the safe side you understand. As long as we can keep our Scottish Cup winning record, I would happily support this proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havana Saint Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Apparently, we should all just be quiet and forget.There seems no shame.http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/rangers-international-football-club-statement-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 When have they ever cared about Scottish football as a whole?? Feckin self-serving bunch of cheating feckin tossers HOODLUM65 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indicator Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Needless to say this is not the SMSM party line:Rangers cheated at football: the fraudulent silverware must go blueheaven and Dr Christmas Jones 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Christmas Jones Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Needless to say this is not the SMSM party line:Rangers cheated at football: the fraudulent silverware must goVery critical read. Sounds like they really don't have a leg to stand on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sevco fan at my work keeps prattling on about EBTs being the norm for many big clubs down south. Is this the case? Were they the same, and if so is there an HMRC shitstorm approaching that could rattle the big boys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOODLUM65 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Now that the E.B.T.'s have been ruled UNLAWFUL, (unless overturned by the Supreme court), I think the beneficiaries should Now be pursued for Tax avoidance/evasion.A place to start would be pursuance of Tax avoidance by Campbell Ogilvie.In the article highlighted by poster "Indicator" above, It states "it is time Campbell Ogilvy explained his conduct - the man who played a part in the Tax avoidance and personally benefitted before going on to be the S.F.A. President".In his WIKI page it states that "in March 2012 Ogilvie admitted to being a member of the E.B.T. scheme at Rangers when he was both a Director of Rangers, as well as the Treasurer of the S. F. A.". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sevco fan at my work keeps prattling on about EBTs being the norm for many big clubs down south. Is this the case? Were they the same, and if so is there an HMRC shitstorm approaching that could rattle the big boys?Yep. As I understand it, it was in common use darn sarf, particularly in the Championship. The reason HMRC are pursuing the cheats to the bitter end is to establish a legal precedent, and then go after all the rest. I think shitstorm will be putting it mildly. However, given the ridiculous Sky money, it might not be an existential issue for most of those affected, and besides they've had plenty of time to build up a rainy day fund. In addition, I don't think EBT's were only used in football. Should be fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Now that the E.B.T.'s have been ruled UNLAWFUL, (unless overturned by the Supreme court), I think the beneficiaries should Now be pursued for Tax avoidance/evasion.With this being the case, it's surely incomprehensible that "Rangers" (whether old or new) can be allowed to hold on to the trophies gained during the affected years.Could it not also be argued that every other club in Scotland now has a legal case against Rangers? Saints, and everyone else in the SPL and SFL, were spending money to compete in leagues and cups that were essentially null and void because the club at the top were cheating. Should the clubs not all be due some serious compensation for that? Or perhaps we, as fans, are due compensation for the vast sums of ticket money we collectively spent, under false pretences, throughout those years.Sevco's assertion that everyone should simply now "move on" in the face of this is hilarious. Edited November 10, 2015 by blueheaven rik2304, HOODLUM65, fazman1977 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nips Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Graham Spiers and another BBC journalist (who's name escapes me) were debating last night over the legality of EBTs. They both admitted that EBTs are perfectly legal, however Spiers was saying it's the way Rangers used them to avoid tax that HMRC had proved to be illegal - I'm not sure what the difference is though? Anyone in the know able to explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 EBT's are perfectly legal repayable loans. If they are repaid, with appropriate interest, no taxable benefit has accrued - you don't pay tax on a bank loan, after all. It's not actually that unusual for companies to lend money to employees in this way. If though they are not repaid or no appropriate interest is charged, then they can be deemed as salary, subject to tax and NIC. Dead Rangers allegedly never had any intention of pursuing repayment, and allegedly told players and agents this. They set the scheme up for the purposes of saving themselves money, and attracting and retaining players by effectively offering them a large proportion of their salary tax free. So rather than a means of attracting employees through various legal incentives and benefits, the intention from the start was to evade tax. As a result, they arguably had a better team, won more trophies, and made more money. Every time the government tinkers with tax law, squadrons of very highly paid tax accountants work out how to get round them - often these guys are the very same people who advised or worked for the Government when they were drawing-up the new laws! Some bright spark probably got a decent bonus for coming up with this for Dead Rangers.Im not an accountant or a lawyer, but that's my understanding. The reason why individual beneficiaries are not being pursued, or trophies taken back, is because the legal process to determine whether this scheme was applied illegally has not yet been exhausted. Even when it is, there may or may not be an appetite for this where it matters. But we won't know until either Dead Rangers say they will not appeal to the Supreme Court, the window for doing so runs out, or the appeal is held and lost. I'd be very surprised if anyone made a move before that.it is of course impossible to say that Dead Rangers would definitely have won fewer trophies without cheating. However, it would also be impossible to say that if they had given players performance enhancing drugs, or bribed a referee. Personally, I don't think what they did is any different. Rules are set out and agreed by the participants in football events to ensure that the only thing that matters at the end of the day is the number of goals scored. If you break those rules, there have to be penalties. Where the rule breach is sufficiently serious, trophies can and frequently are taken back. And sometimes, people go to jail. This is going to be fun for years yet...... Tick tock. Dr Christmas Jones, HOODLUM65, nips and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 An Employee Benefit Trust is a vehicle set up for the benefit of a company's employees, kind of like a pension fund. Money, shares, other items of value are held in the Trust. Neither the company nor the employees should have any say in how the benefits are allocated, this is the job of the trustees. The trustees may however take into account the wishes of the company in deciding how to allocate benefits, just as a life insurance policy is written in trust with an expression of wish from the insured. By putting the assets out of control of the beneficiaries, no tax is due from them. Similarly, the company receives relief on corporation tax and employer's National Insurance for money paid in to the trust.Where the Rangers got it wrong is that portions of the fund were designated for the benefit of named individuals, which made any payments to them subject to PAYE and NI. The way an EBT is supposed to work is to defer tax until a time when the beneficiary is less liable to tax rather than to avoid it altogether. The device of using a loan through a trust instead of a payment was to create the illusion that there was no benefit and therefore no tax due. By making a loan available for the exclusive use of individual players, the courts have ruled that constituted a benefit connected with their employment and that tax was due. nips and HOODLUM65 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havana Saint Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Needless to say this is not the SMSM party line:Rangers cheated at football: the fraudulent silverware must goIt takes an English journo to expose what Scottish journalists are too fearful of saying..the truth. Abernethy Saint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Scotland remains an apartheid country. They won't do their job because the people who will celebrate don't go to a different church than the one they don't go to. I've said it on here a hundred times, this is fek all to do with football, and everything to do with sad middle aged wankers desperately trying to hang on to a Protestant ascendancy that 80% - and increasing every day - of the population have no connection with. They still have much of the power unfortunately, but the times they are a changing. In 20 years, good Scots folk will be looking back on this in amazement and shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indicator Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Good evening.Something else for the Scottish MSM to not ask questions about.https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/the-fatally-flawed-lns-report/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOODLUM65 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Good evening.Something else for the Scottish MSM to not ask questions about.https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/the-fatally-flawed-lns-report/Reading the content of the above, confirms what most of us suspected all along (and more) knew was going to come out in the wash.Seriously, this is every bit as despicable as the exposures revealed into the FIFA investigation.Anyone with any previous connection to the aye broke Board, by the recent findings of the courts, is surely NOT a fit and proper person to have any connection with ANY football club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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