An open letter to St Johnstone Chairman Steve Brown

[NeilSJFC]

Emailed the club this morning. As others have said, I would implore every saints fan to contact the club in some manner and give their opinion

[soulfulsaint]

Outrageous.

If a new company are allowed in with no audited accounts, no fit and proper person test, having emrged from a previously existing club that refused to pay statutory taxes and engaged in a decade of double contracts.

Contact the club via email, phone or letter it would simply be wrong.

And do not buy all this cack about ther SKY deal - they aren't even guaranteed to win the EPL deal never mind holding the key to the future of Scottish Football

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/891706-al-jazeera-tipped-to-rival-sky-sports-for-premier-league-tv-rights

[stevensan]

scream it from the rooftops to anyone who will listen...

NO TO NEWCO.

[henryhallsdanceband]

Emailed the club this morning. As others have said, I would implore every saints fan to contact the club in some manner and give their opinion

My Email to club just sent.

[JSAINTEE99]

outrageous.

If a new company are allowed in with no audited accounts, no fit and proper person test, having emrged from a previously existing club that refused to pay statutory taxes and engaged in a decade of double contracts.

Contact the club via email, phone or letter it would simply be wrong.

And do not buy all this cack about ther sky deal - they aren't even guaranteed to win the epl deal never mind holding the key to the future of scottish football

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/891706-al-jazeera-tipped-to-rival-sky-sports-for-premier-league-tv-rights

what email address have you guys used?

[NeilSJFC]

what email address have you guys used?

There's an enquires email link on the contact bit of the OS. It's mainly for hospitality etc I think but Paul smith has kindly agreed to forward my email on to the chairman when he returns next week.

[dave mc]

E-mail sent, hope SB doesnt end my love of 45years

[belfastsaintee]

I am a long term lurker on here but have never posted!! So hello all!

I have sent the following to Paul Smith in an email and asked him to forward to Steve brown. i will also print out and post a copy of the letter in the mail.

Dear Steve,

I write to you as a 30 year old lifelong fan of St.Johnstone. After growing up in Germany I moved to Kinross as a 5 year old. My father was at the time a passionate Rangers and football fan but was in no way comfortable with the atmosphere at Ibrox or the commute to games. We visited a few grounds - Dunfermline , Raith Rovers and was taken to St.Johnstone games at Muirton. My dad felt comfortable at St.Johnstone and thats where the love affair started. Many years of Adult+Son season ticket membership in the Ormond Stand followed by the East Stand ( when I was old enough!) . The 1998-99 was a real highlight. We made it to almost every away game and that season will always be my favourite. What a team we had.....

The list of memories of games I attended, and the players who have graced the shirt , goes on and on and on and on and on ...........

The St.Johnstone vs Dundee Utd Cup defeat Semi Final at East End Park.

The 2-1 Cup final defeat to Rangers in 1998.

The Monaco games.

The Vaasa games.

The Airdrie game in beautiful sunshine to win the First Division during the first season of football at McDiarmid Park

Losing the Challenge Cup final to Stranraer.

Soaked to the skin standing in torrential rain behind the goal for 90 minutes at Dens Park for a goalless draw.

Beating Dundee 7-2 on New Years Day.

Beating Aberdeen 5-0 . ( I still have my 5-0 badge )

Travelling to Inverness to only manage a draw against Caledonian FC, and the 3-0 replay victory in Perth in front of a crowd of 10,000.

The reason for writing this is to let you know my feelings about the Rangers situation now that we know liquidation is given followed by a Newco Rangers.

You need to speak with the fans before making a decision. This week I have been looking at online discussions and if 90%+ of the die hard fans of the likes of St.Johnstone, Aberdeen and the other SPL clubs are opposed to Rangers re-entering the SPL then what hope have you got of the wavering fans returning? Even some polls on Rangers websites have 90%+ of Rangers fans wishing to go in to Division 3!

I appreciate the lose of revenue to the club from Rangers absence for at least 3 years ( assuming they go into division 3 and work their way up) but some would be recouped through the extra Dundee derby's (assuming Dundee replace Rangers). Remember the glory days for Scottish football and the national team (Dundee Utd and Aberdeen having European success for example) came when the Old Firm didn't have a duopoly over the Scottish game. Lost revenue - Crowds and revenue in the Scottish game are already at rock bottom - so why not be bold. A return to competitiveness and opportunity for other teams to taste League or Cup success outside of the Old firm stranglehold could lead to increased crowds!! Yes things will be tight. But St.Johnstone are a club built on integrity and balancing the books. We would get through the short term pain and are better placed than most to do so. Who knows for short term pain we may see long term gain.

Its as simple as this;

If St.Johnstone vote No to Newco then my love of all things Saints continues till the day I die.

If St. Johnstone vote Yes to Newco (with or without sanctions) then obviously money is more important than integrity . Its been a hell of a ride . Thanks to your father and to yourself for running the club so well , balancing the books in an era of debt and greed. But with a heavy heart the SPL and St.Johnstone FC will never again see a penny of my hard earned time or money. The European games which are a reward for last season would be my last.

After all your great work in getting fans back , the wrong outcome here could put all that good work to waste before it even gets off the ground!!!

I have stolen the below from a fellow St.Johnstone fan and unlike the above these are not my words.I can not sit by and allow a team who have done all of the below (and i suspect much more more that I cant remember or that is yet to come out) be allowed back into the SPL. They must apply to rejoin at the foot of Division 3 which is exactly what would of already happened was the team in question not Rangers or Celtic.

1) 18 million worth of PAYE not paid.

2) Debt owed to Hearts, Celtic, Dundee Utd, Rapid Vienna amongst others;

3) Four years of season tickets sold off to Ticketus;

4) Trying to sign players whilst in administration (Daniel Cousin anyone);

5) An administration that saw the redundancy of ZERO employees;

6) A transfer ban, subsequently appealed through the courts;

7) The interest of FIFA in the matter;

8) A war correspondent from C4 becoming deeply involved;

9) An American bidder who was run out of town;

10) McCoist publicly having names of disciplinary committees published so the Rangers mob could try and run them out of town;

11) a CVA proposal offering pennies in the Pound, while the bidder was talking about a 30million transfer budget, signing players from the Euro’s and now Rino Gattuso was set to sign (despite a transfer ban and being in administration;

12) the CVA proposal saying all season ticket money and player sales would go to Green, and not the creditors;

13) The SPL allowing a Newco Rangers to have a vote on whether they get into the SPL or not!

14) NOT ONE HINT OF AN APOLOGY FROM ANY RANGERS FAN, SUPPORTER, FORMER DIRECTOR OR PLAYER.

Please Do the right thing. Integrity is more important than money.

Thanks for taking the time to read my letter.

Kind Regards

belfastsaintee

ps COME ON YOU SAINTS!!!

Edited June 13, 2012 by belfastsaintee

[Edstar101]

Welcome to the forum belfastsaintee. Your letter gets across your real depth of feeling for the club and the magnitude of what a newco Rangers being allowed back into the SPL would mean to you.

It will be hard for Steve Brown to read stuff like this and not know what the majority of fans think. Rangers have tried to portray this depth of feeling as a witch-hunt and make out that fans are dying to get rid of them. That is not the case. What the fans want is for a just and fitting penalty and for that penalty to be consistent with what would have befallen any team that committed such atrocities against our game

[soulfulsaint]

Welcome to the forum belfastsaintee. Your letter gets across your real depth of feeling for the club and the magnitude of what a newco Rangers being allowed back into the SPL would mean to you.

It will be hard for Steve Brown to read stuff like this and not know what the majority of fans think. Rangers have tried to portray this depth of feeling as a witch-hunt and make out that fans are dying to get rid of them. That is not the case. What the fans want is for a just and fitting penalty and for that penalty to be consistent with what would have befallen any team that committed such atrocities against our game

Agreed and welcome Belfast Saintee.

[blueheaven]

As long as they're members, of course they get a vote. Changing the rules would be hypocriticial.

Charles Green mentions this in an interview with the Daily Record today. He says:

"If the CVA gets rejected then one minute later we won’t be a member of the SPL. And therefore there can’t be an 11-1 vote because they would only have 11 members of the club. So that vote would occur without us."

And that's how I'd see it... they can't vote on SPL issues if they're not members of the SPL. My question is, at what point do the SPL rules kick in and a new club takes their place? Surely when that "one minute later" occurs, then Dundee are automatically promoted? In which case it's back to 12 clubs immediately and there's no place for a NewCo anyway?

It also has to be said that Green's comments can't really be taken as gospel, given that much of what he's said so far has clearly been inaccurate/misunderstood/plain old dishonesty. Saying that staff will be in breach of contract if they don't transfer over to the NewCo, for example, is apparently not true (and if that's the case then it's disgraceful that staff have been told otherwise); and clearly his comment last night about there already being 3 NewCos in the SPL is utter nonsense (although it was fun watching him squirm when asked if he could name them). Personally I'd be pretty worried if this guy was about to step into the breach at my club - he's clearly either out of his depth, or massively untrustworthy, or (most likely) a big dollop of both.

I can only hope that our club will not listen to a word this guy says when he starts "lobbying". I also hope he paid for his ticket when he turned up at McDiarmid on the last day of the season.

[ex-montrosesaintee]

Sorry, been away a while. Haven't read this thread, but I assume that many have emailed and written to the club. I will do the same, and echo belfastsaintee's comments (welcome sir).

While I love our high flying of last season and 98/99, I have also greatly and proudly enjoyed watching Saints in the lower leagues, perhaps sometimes more so due to the competetive nature. It's not about money, it's about football, pride and integrity.

If no rangers meant saints ceased to be then it would be different, but the worst case scenario is that we face up to relegation next year and continue as a yo-yo team. We have lost Jody and Sandaza, and probably Enks. Those salaries alone will surely take up most of the slack that no rangers will create.

Proud Saint.

[SingaporeSaint]

By ANDREW SMITH

Published on Wednesday 13 June 2012 00:25

Horse-trading and hard thinking will determine whether SPL clubs will vote to accept a newco Rangers in the Scottish top flight.

If five clubs are against, they won’t. Many imponderables must be factored in, chief among these Sky’s attitude to honouring their £80m five-year deal, scheduled to begin this coming season, if Rangers are not in the SPL. Clubs could be willing to vote for the new Rangers, with sanctions attached, in return for them agreeing to change the current 11-1 voting structure on the distribution of centralised revenues. Here we look at the possible standpoints of the 11 clubs:

ABERDEEN

The Pittodrie support, through their Trust, have been among the most vociferous opponents of a Rangers newco that would betray a “rigged system” in which there were clubs “too big too fail” and cause them to desert their club en masse. Their chairman, Stewart Milne, wants all this to go away. His club are £12m in debt, he is financing a £38m new stadium and would only say last month: “We will do what we believe is in the best interests of Aberdeen Football Club and Scottish football.”

How they might vote: Milne may be backed in to the ‘no’ corner by a support he cannot afford to lose.

CELTIC

They have deliberately said little beyond chief executive Peter Lawwell’s catch-all: “Our guiding principle is to do what is in the best interests of Celtic and our supporters, while upholding the interests and reputation of Scottish football.” The club that stands to lose most financially if there is no Rangers in the SPL, in any ideal world they wouldn’t want that but there would be a mass revolt among their support if they didn’t serve sporting integrity in the expected fashion.

How they might vote: A stick-on ‘no to newco’ because any other response would be commercial suicide.

DUNDEE UNITED

Owner Stephen Thompson has admitted to attitudes hardening over Rangers after they went to the civil courts. His mind seems to be being made up by a Tannadice faithful who are letting him know they will turn their back on the club if he favours a Rangers newco. “I was told that, at Motherwell at the end of last season, every turnstile had a poster above it saying ‘no to newco’. It was the same at Aberdeen. Fans are feeling very strongly about it. I have been sent hundreds of letters and emails on the subject. Some of them are from people who have been season-ticket holders for 30 years. I have made my mind up, which I won’t go public on. You have to listen to the fans as well but you have a responsibility to the club as well. That doesn’t necessarily mean I want them in. Don’t read too much in that.”

How they might vote: A probable ‘no’ but might be swayed with heavy sanctions for a newco Rangers.

HEARTS

On the line for around £600,000 in lost revenue if the TV deal takes a heavy hit with no Rangers in the SPL, money – including the £800,000 Rangers owe them for Lee Wallace – will dictate their attitude. Hence director Sergejus Fedotovas’ take: “Justice is very important but lessons learned are more valuable. Scottish football should not put all focus on the punishment.”

How they might vote: Certain to back a Rangers return.

HIBERNIAN

No-one has been more unequivocal about their rejection of a fiscal imperative to accept Rangers as a newco than Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie. “Fundamental to us at our club is to make sure the integrity of the game is not called into question and that the sporting integrity of the competition we take part in is maintained at the highest standards. It’s not a question of any sum of money in return for that integrity – integrity is beyond purchase. It’s important that all clubs can have a place within football, provided they have earned it in a sporting sense and also have abided by the rules. If we are called upon to make any decisions we will try to do the right thing and uphold the integrity of the competition that we are engaged in.”

How they might vote: A Rangers refusnik.

INVERNESS CT

Reacted angrily to Rangers’ Court of Session challenge to the SFA but won’t want any uncertainties over revenues when finances tight. Chairman Kenny Cameron said: “There is much still to discuss – but I hope this will bring certainty and closure to this issue. We just need to move on from this situation.”

How they might vote: Will want a Rangers in the SPL.

KILMARNOCK

There is no guesswork required to determine the intentions of club chairman Michael Johnston. “Members see the commercial benefits of having Rangers, even as a newco,” he said last month. “The clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect, but the commercial benefits may outweigh that.”

How they might vote: Another certainty to accept any Rangers. Johnston has also cautioned against any further punishments for the club that plays out of Ibrox.

MOTHERWELL

Another club whose minds might be made up by their masses, the club’s proposed fan ownership model is dependent on listening to them. As they admitted in mealy-mouth fashion. “We do not believe we can separate the sporting integrity of our league from the sustainable future of our club – the two go hand-in-hand. Any decisions we take as a board are made in the best interests of the club with a view to achieving our stated aims for ownership and funding. [A newco proposal we would] fully discuss with representatives of our supporters’ groups, prior to making any decision.”

How they might vote: The rank and file seem to be pushing them reluctantly towards the ‘no’ camp.

ROSS COUNTY

The newest member of the 11, they are not financially dependent on the SPL, in whatever form it takes. Their chairman Roy MacGregor’s stance reflects that. “I will listen to the arguments. I will not prejudge. We are taking a calculated risk on our budget for next season and it was done before this situation. It will make no difference,” he said.

How they might vote: For their first season among the elite they could feel cheated if there was no Rangers. File under “don’t know”.

ST JOHNSTONE

Contradictory noises have come from chairman Steven Brown. Has said his club don’t need Rangers but that it would be a “disaster” if the brand was lost to the SPL. Then last week he stated: “I certainly will not let Rangers in without sanctions. The feeling from the people I’ve spoken to is they won’t let Rangers in with a ‘get out free card’.”

How they might vote: Will vote Rangers in with the right penalty tariff.

ST MIRREN

Another of the swaying brigade, chairman Stewart Gilmour has previously stated Scottish football needs “a strong Rangers and a strong Celtic” but lacerated the Ibrox club for their legal recourse beyond the game. St Mirren’s position will be determined by whether any newco vote is held before 4 July, when ownership of the club is set to transfer to a supporters’ group.

How they might vote: If the current board are still in place Rangers will be supported, if the fans group have taken over perhaps not.

[henryhallsdanceband]

There's an enquires email link on the contact bit of the OS. It's mainly for hospitality etc I think but Paul smith has kindly agreed to forward my email on to the chairman when he returns next week.

That's where I sent mine - asking it to be forwarded to the Chairman

[Abernethy Saint]

Charles Green mentions this in an interview with the Daily Record today. He says:

"If the CVA gets rejected then one minute later we won’t be a member of the SPL. And therefore there can’t be an 11-1 vote because they would only have 11 members of the club. So that vote would occur without us."

And that's how I'd see it... they can't vote on SPL issues if they're not members of the SPL. My question is, at what point do the SPL rules kick in and a new club takes their place? Surely when that "one minute later" occurs, then Dundee are automatically promoted? In which case it's back to 12 clubs immediately and there's no place for a NewCo anyway?

.

What you say seems enirely logical. And yet, various sources say they do have a vote. See eg the quite good Q&A sesson on the BBC Scotland football site, which seems to provide very authoritative answers to this and a number of other "what if's". My assumption is Green is wrong,and the expulsion doesn't become effective until the SLsay "no".

[henryhallsdanceband]

Except the newco can't vote to admit the newco to the SPL as the newco would have to be a member of the SPL which it can't be until it is voted in. Catch 22. Shoorly.

I really really don't get it. All I can think is that the oldco will be ejected from the SPL if they have been liquidated. If the vote on admitting the newco to the SPL happens BEFORE the oldco is ejected (even in the same SPL board meeting?) then the oldco could vote in the newco - and then the oldco gets ejected. How very neat.

[Edstar101]

Surely this is like the accused in a criminal case being allowed to sit on the jury

[Abernethy Saint]

Presumably the act of saying "no" is the act of expulsion. If they had ANY decency they would abstain, or resign from the SPL beforehand, as apparently many of their own fans wish them to - good on those individuals, by the way.

[ex-montrosesaintee]

Just sent this. It's honest, you may disagree, but it's what I think.

Dear sir

I understand that you have received a considerable number of emails from supporters with regard to the Rangers/newco matter. I sympathise greatly with the position that you and other chairmen in the SPL now find themselves in.

I do not wish to be long winded in my comments on the matter, but feel as a lifelong Saints fan I have a moral responsibility to let you know how I feel. I guess that if you are still undecided on the matter, there may be one email or comment that swings the balance in favour of voting no to a newco in the SPL. Maybe that simply isn't the case.

Although many fans say that they will not attend games etc if a newco are voted into the SPL, I do not subscribe to that. I am a Saints fan through thick and thin, and none of this is St Johnstone's fault. Why punish the innocent party? Given the firm financial footing that you and your father have built for the club, I can fully understand why the decision facing you is so difficult.

What I would say, however, that I have enjoyed good times and bad as a Saints fan, from the depths of the lower leagues to the heights of Monaco. Some of the greatest battles we have had have been in the 1st division. We have been a yo-yo club for the length of my lifetime, and this simply makes the highs more enjoyable. To be honest, the thought of supporting a team that finishes first or second every year does not excite me at all. For me it is about the pride of the team doing well and achieving much - usually beyond anyone's expectations (except quietly ours!). The challenge cup win springs to mind, cup runs a few years back when we were in the 1st division, and outclassed several SPL opponents. We did all of this without the support of Rangers FC! If we lose a percentage of income due to the loss of Rangers/newco, is this not a fraction of the cost of being relegated from the SPL? Is that not something we have survived several times without ever falling into financial difficulties? Is that not, in reality, something that the club must factor in as a worst case scenario when budgeting each season? Realism is sadly missing in the game these days, but not from St Johnstone.

If the loss of income means we suffer sufficiently that it means we finish bottom of the SPL next season, then I would be a far happier fan than if we flushed all morals and integrity down the pan and voted for a newco to enter the SPL. We would be back in years to come, we would enjoy the battle, and I am quite sure you and the directors would maintain the financial security of the club as you and your father have for 26 years. As fans of Saints, it is a great thing to have the trust in the way our club is run, with integrity, honesty and above all within the rules of football and business.

In all honesty, if a newco are not permitted back into the SPL, I feel that we have the qualities and the firm financial footing to comfortably survive in the SPL for many years to come. The prospect of Dundee being promoted in place of the departed Rangers is a tantalising one, and one that is far more likely to boost the home support than a newco bringing their own particular flavour of unpleasant songs and chants.

I support St Jonstone, not short term success, so please vote no to a newco in the SPL.

[The Neutral]

Is it true they actually are allowed to vote in this farce?

yep... my understanding is that the oldco will still exist until liquidated and therefore will own 1/12 of the SPL and still have a vote which the liquidators will exercise.

madness

[Greylag]

Montrosesaintee says it all much better than my own effort!

Dear Mr Brown

It is 42 years since first I joined my grandfather on the terracing behind the goal at Muirton. Since then I like you and your family have experienced the highs and lows of being a St Johnstone supporter. I’m quite sure that you have a myriad of such letters to read and that your time is valuable so let me briefly say this.

St Johnstone are a family club that has survived through integrity and good management. Please vote no to any newco being readmitted to the SPL in any fashion. Were the circumstances reversed you can be sure that St Johnstone would be applying for admission to Division 3 already.

Even if you are the only chairman in the league to vote no, you can hold your head up as having voted for integrity, financial propriety and in the spirit of sport.

I honestly believe that a vote in that manner would attract more rather than less gate receipts and investment in the club.

Your father’s comments in the past have illustrated his despair at how clubs can buy success by cheating the system. Please vote No.

[Percy Johnston]

Some absolutely brilliant and heartfelt letters/e-mails on this thread in the last 24 hours. I don't think I've ever before realised how much we all have in common.

If you've been thinking about writing something similar to the Chairman, but haven't yet got round to it, PLEASE take just a few minutes to do likewise, and do it today.

This is our chance to change Scottish football for the good, forever - but we all need to play our part. Don't leave it to someone else.

As someone above has already said, Paul Smith at the club will be good enough to pass on all e-mails to Mr Brown.

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Lets keep the pressure up. Perhaps a few open letters to Steve Brown in the PA might be an idea ..???

pa@s-un.co.uk

[monkfish]

I wrote a letter well over a month ago and got nothing back, other than from Paul saying it had been forwarded on. I don't expect a personal reply but a form 'thank you for your email' would have been nice.

I'd also like some commitment from Saints that they will consult fans over this decision. 90% of the time I'm in the fans are idiots don't listen to them camp, but this is so important it must be discussed openly.

[dave mc]

My tear jerker plea!

Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm not sure if this is the correct department, but hopefully this e-mail will reach our chairman. I have supported Saints for 45 years, entirely from here in Glenrothes,being a season ticket holder for the majority of my adult life(35 years), and I'm compelled to ask you as our chairman to vote against newco Rangers being admitted to the spl. I realise it's a difficult decision, but sporting integrity is more important to financial gain, and I'd be more than willing to follow Saints in the sfl if that's where we end up, as I'd be unable to support a rigged league,one where certain teams are above the rules.The loss of some, if not most of our season tickets is, in my opinion worse than the loss of newco fans, many of whom are the worst kind of people in the human race.If the vote result is made public, and you voted against, then I'd return to Saints, as you at least did the right thing, if however you vote yes, then my world will collapse, and i won't be back to Saints, as long as we're in the spl, and possibly whilst *in your chairmanship.

Edited June 13, 2012 by dave mc