Reconstruction From A Saints Perspective

[dave mc]

Hopefully Yul and his 6 or 11   can ask SB at tomorrows meeting what were the fandabby dozy new financial inputs that have apparently been lost,and why the new investors were only interested in 12-12-18?

[The Neutral]

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It's little wonder crowds are continuing to drop. A lot of damage was done by Doncaster and the SPL chairmen last year when they tried every move under the sun to keep Rangers in the SPL. Only serious fan pressure eventually forced tthem to boot Rangers out, it wasn't for any other reason. The SPL even tried to setup a deal to parachute Rangers into the first division, only for the SFL clubs to knock it back.

 

The same things are happening this year and it's the same people behind it. Until we get people running Scottish football with a genuine interest in improving the whole of Scottish football were screwed.

 

As long as people are having to put their own money into football you will get self interest and they will always look out for number one in some way or another. It is safe to say we are screwed until scottiish football drops to the level where no one will see it as a  way of being their "toy".

[MrBored]

The supposed sponsership deal is probably like the TV deal...disaster awaits without going the way Doncaster wants. When that gets kicked into touch....hey presto, here's a TV deal.

Wont surprise me to see a sponsership deal wrapped up in the coming weeks.

[HOODLUM65]

Major trophy in their cabinet is success surely?

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Although I would prefer if WE had trophy success, this is only a sprint.

Real success is gained over a marathon season by the position in the league.

St. Midden have failed to achieved top six status despite having the majority of possession in most

games as reported. It's what you do with possession in the opposition half that counts not looking comfortable passing it around in their own half.

It's been proved if you get in about their defence in numbers they are inclined to make mistakes and lose possession

As one poster Slf might say, they don't like it up em

[glenrothes saintee]

Hopefully Yul and his 6 or 11   can ask SB at tomorrows meeting what were the fandabby dozy new financial inputs that have apparently been lost,and why the new investors were only interested in 12-12-18?

Dave there is only 1 reason why anyone is interested in 12 12 18, and that is to get Newco back in the top league quicker, so that TV can get the (minimum) 4 bigotfest games they think Scottish football needs. Doncaster, has admitted that he (and sky) are only interested in this. Later ths week, or early next, e will come out again with SPL 1 and SPL 2 with Newco parachuted into SPL 1.

Has he, (Doncaster) or anyone else, said what will happen to TV deals if/when Celtic and Newco f--k off to pastures new? I would like to know what Steve Brown has to say on this.

[HOODLUM65]

Whilst I was not overly impressed by the prospect of the new league set up, I like you John, would have  been happy to give it a go. That's oot the windae now.... On the point of the Midden Chairman..

You do know the ONLY reason why St.Midden voted against it don't you?? Because the club is up for sale. Feck all to do with what their fans wanted and everything to do with Gilmour trying to offload the club. Simple self interest..

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As you stated Ghostie, this chairman has been trying to sell this club for a while now and is indeed protecting his own personal interest.

Why is this guy being allowed to shape the future of Scottish Football, an organization of which he will not be part of, UNLESS, he has been promised a position on the Sevco board.

O.K. I know it's fantasy, but we have had more than enough fantasy in the last 12/18 months.

Wasn't it also reported last year that The Rangers had a rep. at a meeting held at St.Midden ground tho Stewart Gilmour denies he was unaware of this, at the time.

There is certainly more to leak out one way or another.

[mad saints fan]

So once again, the whole of Scottish football is made to look a joke by the ones in charge. The thing that angers me most is that the club were willing to listen to us when it came to the Rangers vote, but lets face it, it was plainly obvious what we wanted. We were made to feel so important because they took time out of their important, busy lives to listen to us 'little people'...

But now, with possibly the biggest decision in the history of Scottish football and with a large number of us being vocal about being unsure or against reconstruction, we get this whole "we'll do what we want and the fans will just have to live with it" attitude. League reconstruction was a ridiculous idea, whatever way you looked at it. Nobody really having any solid facts apart from the 12-12-18 model followed by 8-8-8-18 after 22 games, which lets face it was stupid, there's a reason nobody else has a model like that. They say there would be opportunities for increased revenue....what opportunities? sponsorship? if so then come on, we're all ears!...but no! the fans aren't important enough to be told this sort of information....we're only the ones who keep turning up and putting our money into the clubs and keeping the game alive. Also "opportunities for increased revenue' so what you're saying is there isn't actually anything solid in place that could guarantee us increased revenue, but there would be possibilities...great! There's a possibility I could win the Euromillions tomorrow, but will I? probably not! Doncaster was told the majority of fans want a bigger league but apparently all the clubs have said that we can't financially afford even a 16 team league...why? no answer given...surprise, surprise!

Those at the top of the club have gone the right way about upsetting and distancing themselves from the fans even further.

Now we all just look ****in stupid, not even a plan B in place or other options to vote on. So we just go back to what we have, which is apparently not working, and just make do until some other crazy plan is thought up. Kinda makes every game from now on seem kinda pointless don't you think? what a nice way to attract people to the game...

Doncaster...please, ever so politely...**** off

[auld reekie saint]

The SPL seems to think it's all about money (I suppose the chairmen are Thatcher's children).

Chasing money has given us a fixture list which bends to every wish of the TV companies and cares little for the wishes of the fans.

I suspect as a club we are less dependent on TV money and SPL handouts than most.

Here's a plan.

1. Football 3pm on a Saturday.

2. Reinstate play offs with more relegation and promotion places up for grabs.

3. Oh and here's a thought . Live within your means!

[TheYellowBox]

I'm guessing that the extra money must have been coming from TV?

In that case, surely the middle 8 games would have been moved to some horrendous time to accommodate them?

[HOODLUM65]

Stewart Milne is an ass.

Agree, who is he to spout what's for the good of the game.

This from a man who's in charge of a club millions of ££££££'s in debt.

[BAM]

Am quite delighted by today's vote, despite what may be behind it.

First of all, who looked at all the options for league reconstruction and came to the conclusion that a format rejected across the globe would suit us best? Where is the evidence?

Personally, I'd put reconstruction on the back burner - instead scrap the SFL and SPL and get just 1 body running the game, then there won't be people looking after their own backs when discussing the league set up.

As for the views of the fans...... Yeah fans want a bigger league, play each other once and make going to the game an event again. And that points been made frequently on this board and nationally. But given Saints fans, and I was 1 last summer, stated clearly what they wanted or the won't be back I think the club deserved more support. Last summer, the club listened and acted on that only to be slapped on the face by fans not backing up their promises with actions. Why should they listen now?

[Edstar101]

Right, I have got the perfect answer....stay with me on this....

 

On Day 1 of next season (which will not be announced until the day before), every team just turns up at a ground they fancy playing at. If there is another team there, they play each other (if more than two teams at any ground then they all play simultaneous matches against each other). All the winners then play each other over the next month, but with blind folds on, and 2hrs each half. Any team that doesn't score at least 20 goals gets thrown out the league. The top three teams then go to New Zealand and play each other 8 times with the winner joining all the losing teams from the random day 1 matches in a league of 30. Ten teams get drawn out a hat and don't get to play. The other 20 play pitch and toss until only 2 have any money left. Those two then play a proper 45min each half match, but with a medicine ball, and it has to be on a Tuesday, and freezing cold.

 

Okay, I know it sounds daft, but there is a willing sponsor lined up (from Japan) and the tv companies (Cbeebies) are going crazy for this. Milne thinks it is feckin great and Doncaster is onto his 17th pair of pants in just one day.....etc etc etc....bored now......

[Deek]

Am quite delighted by today's vote, despite what may be behind it.

First of all, who looked at all the options for league reconstruction and came to the conclusion that a format rejected across the globe would suit us best? Where is the evidence?

Personally, I'd put reconstruction on the back burner - instead scrap the SFL and SPL and get just 1 body running the game, then there won't be people looking after their own backs when discussing the league set up.

As for the views of the fans...... Yeah fans want a bigger league, play each other once and make going to the game an event again. And that points been made frequently on this board and nationally. But given Saints fans, and I was 1 last summer, stated clearly what they wanted or the won't be back I think the club deserved more support. Last summer, the club listened and acted on that only to be slapped on the face by fans not backing up their promises with actions. Why should they listen now?

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You really think the clubs listened to what fans wanted last year?

 

No, they were forced into making that decision for financial reasons. Not because it was the right thing to do. Reconstruction wouldn't even be up for debate just now if Rangers hadn't went down the tubes.

 

Agree though, the SPL is the cause of half the problems now. Neil Doncaster said after todays vote "I believe very much in the SPL going forward..." yet this is the same guy who has just tried to apparently vote through a system that would have done away with the SPL!?! Truth is, It would only ever have been a single league body on paper, the SPL would still have been there in the background (11-1 vote or 9-3 vote would still have remained?!?!)

[541ntees]

 On the point of the Midden Chairman..

You do know the ONLY reason why St.Midden voted against it don't you?? Because the club is up for sale. Feck all to do with what their fans wanted and everything to do with Gilmour trying to offload the club. Simple self interest..

 

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because chucky told him to

[541ntees]

gilmour was happy to shout that he was voting for it because of the 11-1 vote so they change to 9-3 and he still doesnt vote yes.

 

major explaining to be done 

[541ntees]

i wasnt a fan but was willing to give the 121218 a go.

 

i would like most prefer an expanded top division but cannot work out a way of getting the fixtures to work-if someone can id be grateful to hear.

 

if we're sticking with what we have id like to see 11th play off with 2nd from the 1st added on

[HOODLUM65]

gilmour was happy to shout that he was voting for it because of the 11-1 vote so they change to 9-3 and he still doesnt vote yes.

major explaining to be done

==========================

He had absolutely nothing to say when the media Mics .

were thrust under his beak after the meeting. Strange for such a mouthy git .

Obviously personal interest .

St. Midden fans should be asking questions !

Edited April 16, 2013 by HOODLUM65

[SingaporeSaint]

I was quite happy for Steve Broon to vote in the best interest of the club and its supporters.

[Saintdunc]

Not much being said about the Ross County (who???) Chairman who was in bed with Gilmour.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Saintdunc

[Guest Mongy Max]

Not much being said about the Ross County (who???) Chairman who was in bed with Gilmour.

Interesting point that, may coincide with brittain papertalk

[stevensan]

there was no concession of the 11-1 voting rights, and StMirren had made a number of comments with reasons for not supporting the proposals, of which the 11-1 was just one thing.  Their number 1 concern was that of the fans, and how the split would affect season ticket sales/prices.

The media made it out that it was all about 11-1, and then reported it that a compromise was offered.  In actual fact the 'compromise' offered was to change the voting system to 9-3 for the purpose of the reconstruction vote and nothing else!  Not going to write it all out again so you can read the detail here

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/misinformation-misinformation-and-more-misinformation/

Both RC and StM were spot on to vote down these proposals.

Why this year?  Why right now? What is the rush?

[john1962]

there was no concession of the 11-1 voting rights, and StMirren had made a number of comments with reasons for not supporting the proposals, of which the 11-1 was just one thing.  Their number 1 concern was that of the fans, and how the split would affect season ticket sales/prices.

The media made it out that it was all about 11-1, and then reported it that a compromise was offered.  In actual fact the 'compromise' offered was to change the voting system to 9-3 for the purpose of the reconstruction vote and nothing else!  Not going to write it all out again so you can read the detail here

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/misinformation-misinformation-and-more-misinformation/

Both RC and StM were spot on to vote down these proposals.

Why this year?  Why right now? What is the rush?

 

 

 

Steve Brown might have a little more information than you?  He may be making an informed decision.

 

I had to laugh at Gilmour and the Ross County Chairman saying that they listened to their fans.  So the fans of those clubs will be involved in every little decision?  Somehow I think not.  They also seemed to think that the best bits could have been taken from the proposal.  That leaves me with one question, who decides the best bits? St Mirren & Ross County I guess.

 

The main focus of the fans seems to have been on the 12-12-18 set up and while I didnt like it I decided to trust Steve Brown that the rest of the package was worth conceding on the set up.  At least to give it a try.  And that was another concession yesterday, remove the three year restriction on change.  So if it didnt work it could be binned even after a year.  Might be different on practice but at least the restriction was to be removed.

Edited April 16, 2013 by john1962

[garydavidson]

Steve Brown might have a little more information than you?  He may be making an informed decision.

 

I had to laugh at Gilmour and the Ross County Chairman saying that they listened to their fans.  So the fans of those clubs will be involved in every little decision?  Somehow I think not.  They also seemed to think that the best bits could have been taken from the proposal.  That leaves me with one question, who decides the best bits? St Mirren & Ross County I guess.

 

The main focus of the fans seems to have been on the 12-12-18 set up and while I didnt like it I decided to trust Steve Brown that the rest of the package was worth conceding on the set up.  At least to give it a try.  And that was another concession yesterday, remove the three year restriction on change.  So if it didnt work it could be binned even after a year.  Might be different on practice but at least the restriction was to be removed.

 

 

You yourself have just said that parts of it were good apart from the set up. This is exactly what put off St Mirren, Ross County and most fans around the country.

 

The SPL has not worked for 10 years and it has taken this long to come up with another stupid set up.

[fazman1977]

The SPL seems to think it's all about money (I suppose the chairmen are Thatcher's children).

Chasing money has given us a fixture list which bends to every wish of the TV companies and cares little for the wishes of the fans.

I suspect as a club we are less dependent on TV money and SPL handouts than most.

Here's a plan.

1. Football 3pm on a Saturday.

2. Reinstate play offs with more relegation and promotion places up for grabs.

3. Oh and here's a thought . Live within your means!

4 - and bring back the Tennent's Sixes.

[john1962]

You yourself have just said that parts of it were good apart from the set up. This is exactly what put off St Mirren, Ross County and most fans around the country.

 

The SPL has not worked for 10 years and it has taken this long to come up with another stupid set up.

 

I said I didnt like the set up.

 

So you wouldnt compromise on the set up to get all the good things?