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Pro Youth Team Not Paying Fees To Youth Teams.

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An interesting article in todays Hearld

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/the-tenner-debt-boys-club-stands-up-to-poachers.23365141

 

So the professional teams are due the Youth teams £10 per player yet within a year they can charge thousands or in most cases just drop the players.

 

Do those who are involved at this level even know of the rule and how much have you been paid?

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Pro-youth clubs can be very underhand in their dealings with schools, districts and youth teams. They are not allowed to directly ask a player not to play for a school team or as a county representative. However some do make it clear without saying it that it won't be tolerated. I know of several examples of a senior club putting pressure on youngsters to go through their academy rahter than pursuing an education on their own merits. Players who don't chose the route the club want are dropped and not selected all of a sudden. More should be done to make sure that we don't just look after the 10 percent that do make it from that level, but also look after the 90 percent that don't.

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This is very interesting for me as between now and May will be the decision from Hibs whether to offer my son a pro-youth contract or not. He currently plays school and club football as well, and it was hinted at (not very bluntly) in a conversation last night that if he does sign he will be expected to train three nights a week and play Saturdays, leaving (in their opinion) no time for 'other' football interests. 

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This is very interesting for me as between now and May will be the decision from Hibs whether to offer my son a pro-youth contract or not. He currently plays school and club football as well, and it was hinted at (not very bluntly) in a conversation last night that if he does sign he will be expected to train three nights a week and play Saturdays, leaving (in their opinion) no time for 'other' football interests. 

 

 

How old is your laddie Ed , and what is his take on it.

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This is very interesting for me as between now and May will be the decision from Hibs whether to offer my son a pro-youth contract or not. He currently plays school and club football as well, and it was hinted at (not very bluntly) in a conversation last night that if he does sign he will be expected to train three nights a week and play Saturdays, leaving (in their opinion) no time for 'other' football interests. 

 

If you don't mind me asking, how old is your son?

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How old is your laddie Ed , and what is his take on it.

 

Just turned 10 yesterday mate, hence why this is a big year. He is loving it at Hibs, but also enjoys playing for Tynie Boys Club (crossing the divide!!)

 

I have no aspirations for him (other than he enjoys playing) and have also allowed him to make all his own decisions re football. It was his decision to leave Edinburgh South when Tynecastle poached him, and his decision to go to Hibs when they approached me. He is also himself thinking about whether he wants to step back from school football.

 

If between now and May they do offer to sign him pro-youth, again, I will explain to him what that means and allow him to decide what he wants to do.

 

The only football related decision I have made for him is that he WILL be a Saints fan :cool:

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Just turned 10 yesterday mate, hence why this is a big year. He is loving it at Hibs, but also enjoys playing for Tynie Boys Club (crossing the divide!!)

 

I have no aspirations for him (other than he enjoys playing) and have also allowed him to make all his own decisions re football. It was his decision to leave Edinburgh South when Tynecastle poached him, and his decision to go to Hibs when they approached me. He is also himself thinking about whether he wants to step back from school football.

 

If between now and May they do offer to sign him pro-youth, again, I will explain to him what that means and allow him to decide what he wants to do.

 

The only football related decision I have made for him is that he WILL be a Saints fan :cool:

 

 

Cheers Ed thats how it should be lad should be left alone to enjoy what he is doing, to much pressure on kids today 

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Pro-Youth teams are also supposed to approach the Secretary of the club they want to sign a player from, before approaching the player. Never happens though. No youth club would ever stand on a lads way but it's common courtesy.

 

You are correct on both parts. We I helped set up Gannochy FC in Perth we never stood in the way of any player and the more players you had going on to pro Youth the more players wanted to come to the club in the first place. I don't ever remember any club approaching us directly, normally the parent would call to say their son had been asked by club xxx and we would be delighted for them.

 

Pro-youth clubs can be very underhand in their dealings with schools, districts and youth teams. They are not allowed to directly ask a player not to play for a school team or as a county representative. However some do make it clear without saying it that it won't be tolerated. I know of several examples of a senior club putting pressure on youngsters to go through their academy Rather than pursuing an education on their own merits. Players who don't chose the route the club want are dropped and not selected all of a sudden. More should be done to make sure that we don't just look after the 10 percent that do make it from that level, but also look after the 90 percent that don't.

That's the biggest problem with the whole system.

I had a chat with Billy Dodds last year on this and his own son was enjoying Sunday football and doing well, but had been asked by Pro Youth teams and the thought of not being able to play for his school or Sunday club side was putting him and his dad off.

I know times have changed but the great Aberdeen and Dundee United teams of the mid 80's were built on the "S" signings where players benefited from the quality coaching that players do get in these youth systems along side the benefit of playing for their own teams/schools etc. They in turn will have helped the other players and no doubt improved their games as well.

 

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Just turned 10 yesterday mate, hence why this is a big year. He is loving it at Hibs, but also enjoys playing for Tynie Boys Club (crossing the divide!!)

I have no aspirations for him (other than he enjoys playing) and have also allowed him to make all his own decisions re football. It was his decision to leave Edinburgh South when Tynecastle poached him, and his decision to go to Hibs when they approached me. He is also himself thinking about whether he wants to step back from school football.

If between now and May they do offer to sign him pro-youth, again, I will explain to him what that means and allow him to decide what he wants to do.

The only football related decision I have made for him is that he WILL be a Saints fan :cool:

Tynecastle boys club is probably a better place to be than Hibs pro youth , Hibs fairly spit them out but it would always be a 'what if i had went to Hibs' moment .

I always regard Tynecastle as one of , if not the best , youth football club in Scotland . At every age level they have very good teams and their best players still get signed on pro contracts at u15 level so no rush needed .

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Teams aren't allowed to restrict players playing for schools and authorities but in the West Coast they certainly let the players know what they expect. I can kind of see their point as there are still a lot of very shit and dodgy people coaching at youth level and you wouldn't want kids geeting mixed messages. However, I think there should be a common ground and a bit of commonsense.

Edstar I would advise as others have, let the young lad decide. I would say at that age it is not quite the cut-throat and dodgy situations that some youngsters experience as they get a bit older.

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An interesting article in todays Hearld

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/the-tenner-debt-boys-club-stands-up-to-poachers.23365141

 

So the professional teams are due the Youth teams £10 per player yet within a year they can charge thousands or in most cases just drop the players.

 

Do those who are involved at this level even know of the rule and how much have you been paid?

 

Never been paid a penny from Alloa, Dunfermline or Stirling Albion.

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Tynecastle boys club is probably a better place to be than Hibs pro youth , Hibs fairly spit them out but it would always be a 'what if i had went to Hibs' moment .

I always regard Tynecastle as one of , if not the best , youth football club in Scotland . At every age level they have very good teams and their best players still get signed on pro contracts at u15 level so no rush needed .

 

I think Tynie and Hutchie are ery similar in that they will show kids no loyalty at all, If tehy are not performing or they see a better player they will go for them. As Edstar says his lad was poached from another team at 9 year old.

 

Just turned 10 yesterday mate, hence why this is a big year. He is loving it at Hibs, but also enjoys playing for Tynie Boys Club (crossing the divide!!)

 

I have no aspirations for him (other than he enjoys playing) and have also allowed him to make all his own decisions re football. It was his decision to leave Edinburgh South when Tynecastle poached him, and his decision to go to Hibs when they approached me. He is also himself thinking about whether he wants to step back from school football.

 

If between now and May they do offer to sign him pro-youth, again, I will explain to him what that means and allow him to decide what he wants to do.

 

The only football related decision I have made for him is that he WILL be a Saints fan :cool:

 

Edstar know a guy who's kid is at Hibs and he loves it at 10 let him do what he wants and what he enjoys. No rush if he is good enough he will get picked up another year if he turns this one down.

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Teams aren't allowed to restrict players playing for schools and authorities but in the West Coast they certainly let the players know what they expect. I can kind of see their point as there are still a lot of very shit and dodgy people coaching at youth level and you wouldn't want kids geeting mixed messages. However, I think there should be a common ground and a bit of commonsense.

Agree but I still see school teachers as the key to developing Scottish players as they have undergone proper training rather than some short SFA coaching badges.

Of course you can have both as one of the youth coaches in Saints Pro youth is also a trainee PE teacher.

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Basically, he loves playing at Hibs, and loves it at Tynie, and loves school football. Basically, he loves playing football!

It might be immaterial as he might not get offered pro-youth, and therefore no decision to make

To be fair to Tynie, it wasn't them directly that poached him. A coach was moving from another outfit (Currie Star) to Tynie and knew Ben through football at Gracemount. He approached us there and asked if we wanted to join him. Tynie have treated him very well

I dislike Hutchie as a club! Massive superiority complex!!

As I have said previously, all decisions will be totally up to him

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Agree but I still see school teachers as the key to developing Scottish players as they have undergone proper training rather than some short SFA coaching badges.

Of course you can have both as one of the youth coaches in Saints Pro youth is also a trainee PE teacher.

Totally disagree with this . Most pro youth coaches i know are totally dedicated and focused on football. P.E.teachers on the other hand ? Some don't even have a clue about football !!!

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My lad age 13 plays pro youth and never been a problem from his club allowing him to play school football and a few of the guys in his school team are at Hearts, Hibs  and one lad plays for Saints and they all play, most clubs seem quite happy as long as it doesnt happen at the same time as their games or training etc.

 

Hearts and Hibs though tend to get them in/out very quick,  this sometimes doesnt give them long enough before they release them, which can knock a kids confidence, other clubs give them longer, as obviously at these ages kids are going to be up and down in performances/growth etc.

 

In my experience the boys club were very awkward about releasing the lad, took over 3 weeks of bickering between pro club and boys club, heard this is often the case, in the end should be what the kid wants to do and everyone should give their advice and then respect the kids wishes, I let my lad make his own mind, no point trying to make him do something is he is not happy with, should be  about enjoyment first and foremost.

 

Hear that Hutchie are looking to go pro youth next season

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The best boys clubs in Scotland are still a wee bit behind the pro youth teams obviously but these teams still have real quality in them . Watch the latter stages of the Scottish cup or the SYCL that Milngavie host and there are players to be found , like young Josh Milne (and a few others) who Saints picked up from Dyce this season .

All is not lost if you're not signed for a pro team by u14-15 level .

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Agree but I still see school teachers as the key to developing Scottish players as they have undergone proper training rather than some short SFA coaching badges.

Of course you can have both as one of the youth coaches in Saints Pro youth is also a trainee PE teacher.

 

It'll come as no surprise to those who think I could start an argument in an empty room that I both agree and disagree with you. I'll try to keep this short and please bear in mind that as a paid employee of a council there is a limit to what I can actually post online.

 

At present school teachers are hugely ill-prepared and trained to be a long term solution to any of Scotland's physical education, activity and sports based problems. I've written two dissertations on the subject and research shows that Primary School teachers often lack the confidence, knowledge and training to deliver top quality Physical Education at the primary level, which is fundamental to development. I did a 4 year degree course on Primary Education and it was possibly to pass that course with a first having had only 6 hours of input into P.E. and having never actually taught a P.E. lesson. Many councils try to provide P.E. specialists but the review into Primary P.E. recommends 2 hours of quality P.E. each week. Specialists would generally only take half of that. The key to development in football, any sport and the general physical culture of our country is setting a good foundation at that level. At present, the research would suggest that my profession simply isn't equipped to provide the physical education children require. And when you look specifically at football, it has to be said that again there are huge issues. At primary level, all that is required from any adult to take coaching sessions is the SFA's first coaching certificate. Quite frankly this and the second one are about as meaningful as the prize you get out of a cereal packet. I’ve seen people pass these courses that I wouldn’t let open a tin of beans for me let alone be left in charge of children and their development. (I have to say I’m very lucky to be involved in a very good set-up with regards football at my school, with genuinely good coaches to help) When you are aware of these kind of issues it isn’t surprising that some pro-youth teams don’t want any of these people, teachers or not, going near their players. And the problem is many pro-youth clubs will view all teachers, coaches and helpers in this way despite most of them being very competent and capable of actually helping them.

 

What I do agree with is that teachers SHOULD be fundamental to this process. This would take huge investment in both terms of training and facilities. The best example to look to is the Scandinavians, in particular the Swedish. They invested hugely in this and have reaped the rewards. They have 1 hour of P.E. every day and are prepared with quality outdoor education despite having bigger extremes in weather than we do. This has resulted in improvements in physical attainment, attainment across most curricular areas and an improvement in issues like anti-social behaviour and bullying. This has had a huge impact on their sporting culture and success, in both male and female sports. Scotland’s shame isn’t Sectarianism (not that Sectarianism isn’t a huge problem and serious issue) It is our health record. We need to take action and look towards how we deal with these things at Primary level. There are lot of good people out there doing a lot of good and hard work to try and deliver as much as they can. They need more funding and more support.

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