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Havana Saint

Disgraceful

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I despair of the PC folk who, at the slightest excuse, jump on another's post labelling it racist or calling them a dinosaur / fascist etc.

 

I'll be at Ibrox for the semi. Any of you who small-minded shits who have called me a dinosaur / fascist or Tory apologist here on this forum from the safety of your keyboard can come up and say it to my face. I'm in BF1 row R, 6' 3" with short hair, beard, black waterproof jacket, and a nine year old.

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He made racist comments on twitter, it's well published if you wish to google it.

No fans have been charged for this incident (yet) but they previously, again, a quick google will show you.

are you talking about 1 dunfermline fan in 2011

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I think what some of the 'pc brigade' (only using that term as previously used term) are missing is that those who do not wholeheartedly agree with them that anybody who utters a single word that could be perceived as 'racist' should be thrown in jail and the the keys thrown away, is that these people are also not condoning racism.

 

What we often see is an innapropriate reaction to the actual 'event' or 'circumstance' where 'racism' occured. Okay, the song Griffiths sang included lines that could be interpreted as racist....but he didn't then want to go roaming the streets for 'foreigners' to kick the shit out of. Doesn't make singing it right, but it has to be put into context.

 

What needs to be stamped out is discrimination due to racism and actual hatred of people due to their race / nationality

 

The Hibs fans hate Skacel because he played for Hearts....NOT because of his nationality. Skacel wasn't cowaring in the corner whilst the chanting mob moved in on him

 

The approach of some on here (on both sides) just pushes those with different opinions to the extreme edges of their opinions and makes the issue escalate.

 

Do I hate racism? Yes

Do I think The Thumb is a horrible little turd? Yes

Am I massively outraged by this footage? No......because I have the ability to understand the context and the intent

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I'm sorry Edstar but I'm not with you on this.
To not punish people for this, although it is absolutely a lesser crime than your reductio ad absurdum foreigner hunting, would simply condone the continued discrimination of people based on nationality.
There is categorically nothing wrong with hating Skacel for playing with hearts (without going into a discussion on how much football should affect your views on person), but to then channel that to highlight a distinguishing feature about them they can't change, in this case their nationality, is entirely wrong.

It is wrong when it is done by the man on the street, and it is even more wrong when done by someone in the public eye.

Your final line is verging on being horrendously condescending, but for the use of the word 'massively'. I don't think anyone is 'massively' outraged, as this example isn't shocking (not least because that wee ned has previous), but also because it is just one of thousands of such incidents across the country, which not only perpetuate opinions like that of chips, babychunder and to a slightly lesser extend yourself, but then those perpetuated opinions are exactly what lead to not only contiuned examples of discriminatory verbal treatment like the songs in question and racial harassment of non-famous minorities, but also your dramatized foreigner hunting, or more realistically, all the steps in between. If you think physical violence is the only thing people in certain minorities have to fear when compared to yourself (on the not unreasonable but unsubstantiated assumption you are a white british male), you are woefully under-educated.

You may have correctly identified the intent and some aspects of the context, but your complete lack of perception of the wider context makes your smug self-assurance in the final line somewhat premature.

I'm not entirely unsympathetic to those who slate the "pc brigade", and indeed there are many people out there who take it to dangerous extremes. The thing is, if you allow this type of thing you are assigning to the great unwashed the ability to always decide on a case-by-case basis what is appropriate. Even you yourself can always make such judgments in a way you can be satisfied with, the simple and undeniable fact is that the great majority of people cannot, and will resort to unwarranted and excessive racial discrimination, especially when spurred on by the group mentality.

This is why the line needs to be drawn harshly. It doesn't make chips or babychunder a racist, but it does make their undervaluing of the issue an out-dated viewpoint which will only perpetuate societies problems.

Ultimately I don't know who i'm writing this to, its overly preachy and probably riddled with teleological errors, but I'm bored. Shouldn't have used the phrase "this type of thing" though

Edited by Jiangsu Sainty

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Okay what i had on my mind and what i wrote has come out completely different,i meant it as i will not be replying anymore on this subject (broke that rule already !!) I am not racist in anyway nor promote their views. I'll state it once again Thumheids actions have been taken OTT but thats MY view of it. Plenty of posters on here know me in the real world,if you dont then they will point you in my direction, i am more than willing to sit and discuss this issue with anyone over a cold beer. I thank the above poster for the "Good riddance" message. My open invitation goes to all, and luckily for you i dont drink Gin and Tonic anymore so a round is a bit cheaper. I'll be the Asian looking guy wearing a rastafarian hat and clogs carrying my new copy of the Koran

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Okay what i had on my mind and what i wrote has come out completely different,i meant it as i will not be replying anymore on this subject (broke that rule already !!) I am not racist in anyway nor promote their views. I'll state it once again Thumheids actions have been taken OTT but thats MY view of it. Plenty of posters on here know me in the real world,if you dont then they will point you in my direction, i am more than willing to sit and discuss this issue with anyone over a cold beer. I thank the above poster for the "Good riddance" message. My open invitation goes to all, and luckily for you i dont drink Gin and Tonic anymore so a round is a bit cheaper. I'll be the Asian looking guy wearing a rastafarian hat and clogs carrying my new copy of the Koran

You would need to find find somewhre with a small hill so some on here if they wish to accept your kind offer could take the moral high ground.

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I'm sorry Edstar but I'm not with you on this.

To not punish people for this, although it is absolutely a lesser crime than your reductio ad absurdum foreigner hunting, would simply condone the continued discrimination of people based on nationality.

There is categorically nothing wrong with hating Skacel for playing with hearts (without going into a discussion on how much football should affect your views on person), but to then channel that to highlight a distinguishing feature about them they can't change, in this case their nationality, is entirely wrong.

It is wrong when it is done by the man on the street, and it is even more wrong when done by someone in the public eye.

Your final line is verging on being horrendously condescending, but for the use of the word 'massively'. I don't think anyone is 'massively' outraged, as this example isn't shocking (not least because that wee ned has previous), but also because it is just one of thousands of such incidents across the country, which not only perpetuate opinions like that of chips, babychunder and to a slightly lesser extend yourself, but then those perpetuated opinions are exactly what lead to not only contiuned examples of discriminatory verbal treatment like the songs in question and racial harassment of non-famous minorities, but also your dramatized foreigner hunting, or more realistically, all the steps in between. If you think physical violence is the only thing people in certain minorities have to fear when compared to yourself (on the not unreasonable but unsubstantiated assumption you are a white british male), you are woefully under-educated.

You may have correctly identified the intent and some aspects of the context, but your complete lack of perception of the wider context makes your smug self-assurance in the final line somewhat premature.

I'm not entirely unsympathetic to those who slate the "pc brigade", and indeed there are many people out there who take it to dangerous extremes. The thing is, if you allow this type of thing you are assigning to the great unwashed the ability to always decide on a case-by-case basis what is appropriate. Even you yourself can always make such judgments in a way you can be satisfied with, the simple and undeniable fact is that the great majority of people cannot, and will resort to unwarranted and excessive racial discrimination, especially when spurred on by the group mentality.

This is why the line needs to be drawn harshly. It doesn't make chips or babychunder a racist, but it does make their undervaluing of the issue an out-dated viewpoint which will only perpetuate societies problems.

Ultimately I don't know who i'm writing this to, its overly preachy and probably riddled with teleological errors, but I'm bored. Shouldn't have used the phrase "this type of thing" though

 

Okay, I take on board all of your points...and the true sentiments probably lie somewhere between what my post tried to depict and your take on my post 

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You would need to find find somewhre with a small hill so some on here if they wish to accept your kind offer could take the moral high ground.

 

Between this thread and many others feckin Ben Nevis wouldna be high enough for their morally high ground stance :laugh:

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Didn't realise WAP was full of racist apologists. It's true when they say you don't know what type of person is behind the keyboard. Very embarrassing for anyone who is trying to defend Griffiths.

 

I don't think anybody is defending him...they are maybe taking his actions into context. There can be no doubt that he is a horrible little human being and that his actions were, at best, badly thought out.....what people are discussing is the level of intent and true belief that he was being 'racist' as opposed to just singing a song about a player who played for 'the other team' that happens to have words which refer to his country of birth......

 

I don't know the song in question and didn't watch the footage, but do the lyrics refer to his nationality as being a derogatory thing...or, really, did that further descriptor of the subject of the song just kinda fit in?

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I don't think anybody is defending him...they are maybe taking his actions into context. There can be no doubt that he is a horrible little human being and that his actions were, at best, badly thought out.....what people are discussing is the level of intent and true belief that he was being 'racist' as opposed to just singing a song about a player who played for 'the other team' that happens to have words which refer to his country of birth......

 

I don't know the song in question and didn't watch the footage, but do the lyrics refer to his nationality as being a derogatory thing...or, really, did that further descriptor of the subject of the song just kinda fit in?

Makes no reference to his country of birth.

Simply states that he's a fugee. Some one on here invented the "because hes czech" scenario.

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Makes no reference to his country of birth.

Simply states that he's a fugee. Some one on here invented the "because hes czech" scenario.

Yeah, someone on here, or the SFA and Scottish police service. They wouldn't have been singing it had he not been Eastern(ish) European, so it indirectly references his country of birth

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Yeah, someone on here, or the SFA and Scottish police service. They wouldn't have been singing it had he not been Eastern(ish) European, so it indirectly references his country of birth

bollocks!!

if he played for any other team and hadn't played for hertz purely for the money it wouldn't have been sung at all.

but then that doesn't suit your agenda though does it?

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bollocks!!

if he played for any other team and hadn't played for hertz purely for the money it wouldn't have been sung at all.

but then that doesn't suit your agenda though does it?

 

Of course they wouldn't have been singing it if he wasn't playing for their rivals, but the idea that that somehow justifies discriminating against someone by virtue of their race/nationality is, as you so eloquently put it, bollocks.

It would take the looniest of the PC brigade to suggest you can't sing about your rival, but it only takes a decent human being to suggest you keep race/nationality/origin/sexuality etc out of it.

Look at what you've written, justifying racism for someone trying to earn a living. Blaming Skacel for Hibs fans singing racist songs about him. Nasty stuff

Edited by Jiangsu Sainty

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Of course they wouldn't have been singing it if he wasn't playing for their rivals, but the idea that that somehow justifies discriminating against someone by virtue of their race/nationality is, as you so eloquently put it, bollocks.

It would take the looniest of the PC brigade to suggest you can't sing about your rival, but it only takes a decent human being to suggest you keep race/nationality/origin/sexuality etc out of it.

Look at what you've written, justifying racism for someone trying to earn a living. Blaming Skacel for Hibs fans singing racist songs about him. Nasty stuff.

Leaving what exactly?

what topics would be suitable and would meet your criteria of your agenda?

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Leaving what exactly?

what topics would be suitable and would meet your criteria of your agenda?

 

Are you trolling now? What you are writing now is so mind-blowingly stupid it's making me wonder.

 

Any topic you wish that doesn't constitute a criminal act. 

If are really so desperate to sing a song about someone but can't think of anything that doesn't highlight their race/sexuality/nationality, then you really need to have a look at yourself

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Okay what i had on my mind and what i wrote has come out completely different,i meant it as i will not be replying anymore on this subject (broke that rule already !!) I am not racist in anyway nor promote their views. i am more than willing to sit and discuss this issue with anyone over a cold beer. I thank the above poster for the "Good riddance" message. 

 

Just for clarity, I don't doubt any of the above and never called you a racist, just used the term dinosaur to suggest your views on it (which you are entitled to have) are somewhat out of touch. The good riddance clearly said IF you were the type to leave a forum purely because people weren't happy with LG's racism. Seeing as you are still here and still posting in Saints Chat, there is no good riddance involved.

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