Yes Or Naw?

[rik2304]

Surprised that there isn't a thread for this already on here.

 

The big day is almost upon us. Polling cards through the door. Politicians never off the telly. What's the thoughts of folk on here?

 

Are we ready to become The People's Republic of Scotland? Can our economy exist on Whisky/Tourism/Golf resorts?

 

Are we Better Together? Isn't it better to sit tight and always blame the English?

 

More importantly. Should we become independent can we then jail Union Jack waver's for treason?

[sixties saintee]

Are us Exiles allowed a comment

[Saintdunc]

Surprised and disappointed that, as an exile, I am not allowed a vote. Ok, I made a choice to leave when I joined up to serve my Queen and country but that country was Scotland, part of a United Kingdom. I see no reason why this union should not continue but feel that I should have been given the opportunity to express my opinion, just like incomers can, who have made the reverse journey that I did and now live in a place other than that of their birth.

I have no idea what is to be gained by independence and, quite frankly, don't get it. I especially don't understand the amount of bile eminating from some of those in the Yes side towards those on the opposite side. It reminds me of Belfast and Berlin.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

[Saintdunc]

Are us Exiles allowed a comment

Just seen this. Fire away sixties saintee.

[gingermunkie]

The quality of campaigning on both sides has been absolutely horrendous.

It's been cringeworthy to watch both sides decend into petty 'aye but what you're saying is silly' quality of debate.

This is a genuine opportunity to make some fantastic changes to this country, either in or out of the union and the opportunity is getting squandered on booya political grandstanding.

I'd recommend making the time to read this essay from a neutral think tank on sixteen of the key issues:

http://futureukandscotland.ac.uk

Edited August 25, 2014 by gingermunkie

[franco]

Why anybody would want to stay part of the United Kingdom is beyond me, our taxes are being squandered on projects that will never affect Scottish peoples lives in any way and the poor are becoming poorer and the rich becoming richer. It is also not beyond the realms of possibilty that the next government could be a UKIP/Conservative coalition which quite frankly scares me. If we are better together then why are we currently not better together? The only option is to vote yes.

[Cagey]

Always said I thought it would be a bad idea & devisive if we had this debate on here but what I will say is that nearly every newspaper is pushing the No buttons which makes me wonder why.

Wish we could have a really independant opinion on the pro`s and con`s but that is never going to happen.

[Baiggers]

The opportunity to feel like your vote matters, to have a written constituion, to get rid of nuclear weapons, to have a written consitution protecting what is important to the poeple, to get away from westimnster and the house of lords, an opportunity to try and share the wealth of the country more evenly, to protect public services from being privatised, to be represented by people who have our interests as their priority, the ability to make policies and decisions on our needs.

 

It is a wonderful opportunity and I really hope we take it.

[HelsinkiSaintee]

Obviously I don't have a vote, but if I did, I'd be voting Yes.

 

Lot of reasons for that, I think Westminster is totally corrupt and can't be reformed, and I don't think Westminster acts in Scotland's best interests.  Trident is a stain on Scottish soil and I don't see nuclear weapons ever being removed as part of the UK.  The ongoing lurch to the right, both socially and economically, is a disaster.  Fracking is environmentally disastrous, and rights to licence that have been taken back to Westminster, can't see them refusing party donors companies licences.  I don't think anybody can doubt/deny that ever-increasing privatisation of the NHS will lead to cuts in Scotland, and ultimately privatisation.  Failure to enact meaningful land reform in Scotland is keeping large parts of the country economically inactive.  The propaganda lie that Scotland is massively subsidised is pretty horrible, it's meant to keep everybody at each others throats and ignore Westminster corruption.  Could go on and on but let's keep it at that for the moment

 

Saintdunc, bile emanates from both Yes and No sides, I like to think it's a minority and most people involved in both sides are basically decent.

[HelsinkiSaintee]

Ok franco, I will bite. For my information and also for those happy with the Union, please give examples of projects that will never affect Scottish peoples lives. There must have been projects in Scotland that did not have any impact on the other members of the Union and that will and must obviously continue. There are rich and poor in all countries. You get free prescriptions at the moment and when Scotland inherits part of the National debt, as we surely will, that is one of the many projects you benefit from at the moment that will disappear forever. Free crossings over the Tay and Forth will become history and the new bridge will be have to be financed as well so that will cost an arm and a leg to go over. I cannot remember what other freebies you have enjoyed since the SNP came to prominence but just as quickly as they arrived away they will go. Salmond must be rubbing his hands with glee at the thought of being a modern day hero but down here he is thought of as just a clown. Mainly by exiled Scots, many of whom left when they did not like what was happening in their homeland. As for you assertion that there may be a possibility of the UKIP and Tories forming the next government, I can almost guarantee the this will not happen. Not in a million years.

Love your name by the way. Does it have a French connection or is there some ancient Scottish reason for choosing that handle?

 

London Crossrail not likely to benefit Scotland.

[Edstar101]

I will not claim to have a complete grasp of all the ecomic and social implications of how the vote goes, or understand what it will mean for us in the eyes of Europe / the world. All I know is that it is not the rallying call of the YES camp that is swaying my decision, it is more the condascending attitude of the NO camp treating us like we are second class citizens who should be happy with our lot, regardless of how shit it may be.

 

It is also the fact that Westminster is clearly only interested in themselves, and London. The majority of MP's there, from all parties, are nothing but self-serving, cheating, lying a**eholes. Will our politicians at Holyrood be any different? Maybe not, but at least they will be our self-serving, cheating, lying a**eholes and we will have a lot more power to try to make things change should they really stuff things up. Just now, we are powerless over our own fate. Even devolution (for which we should have kissed our master's feet for the privelidge) comes with massive caviats.

 

We are a stronger, prouder nation than England and we have let them drag us / keep us down for too long. We are a more adventurous, forward thinking and inventive race than them and going it alone with allow us to flourish. If we fail, we fail because of us, not because somebody in London failed on our behalf.

 

I hope we vote yes, and I hope that those from south of the border who live here continue to do so.

 

Hopefully we will truly be able to answer the question of what country we are from as 'Scotland'

[Baiggers]

Perhaps you could provide us with a list of projects that are of 'national importance' and funded prior to the money being split under the Barnett Formula?  There is no reason why such list should not be very easy to find at the click of a button but it is not.  To be clear, London sewer replacements, olympics, crossrail, hs2 and hs3 could all be paid for out of the pot and then only after that do we get our 9.3% share or whatever it is nowadays.  I'm going to hazard a guess, there is likely to be a very small amount of spending on that list in Scotland.

 

If we vote no, can you absolutely guarantee us that the Barnett Formula will remain and if so for how long?  Even with it remaining, as long as the rest of the UK reduces public expenditure, our budget will go down.  That is where the real risk is to public services in Scotland.  Could you please explain why free prescriptions, free crossings would disppear with independence?  If you believe that they are subsidised by the rest of the UK and we should be grateful for it then I'm probably wasting my time trying to engage in sensible debate here.

 

When decisions are being made internally in the UK and outwith, how much care and consieration is made on the impact to Scotland?  We are not even an afterthought and if decisions are made for the benefit of the south east which has a negative impact on Scotland, I would think not a minute's sleep will be lost over it.  There is no use telling us how many seats the UK has at any EU or world bodies because the reality is that they do not represent us or have our interests at heart.  Even one seat at the table would at least give us a voice.  I don't give a **** about being a superpower in the world or having x number of seats more in representation than we should have.  I just want us to have a fair and equal representation from people who are looking afer our interests.

[ejksjfc]

I was right on the fence as I just did not know which way to vote. What I will say is that all the previous governments going all the way back through my lifetime (all the way back to the 60's) have done very little to benefit the average person.As I said I was very firmly on the fence but I am now quite firmly on the yes side of the argument, I was finally convinced that this is the right way to go after speaking to a certain Mr Cosgrove over a few pints in Pickwicks Bar in Lucerne. I have got to say though I am not a fan of Alex Salmond,but one quote which I fully agree with is the one saying you would not miss out on your dream house because you did not like the wallpaper so do t miss out on a better Scotland because you don't like the leader. He can be changed later.

[sixties saintee]

I was right on the fence as I just did not know which way to vote. What I will say is that all the previous governments going all the way back through my lifetime (all the way back to the 60's) have done very little to benefit the average person.As I said I was very firmly on the fence but I am now quite firmly on the yes side of the argument, I was finally convinced that this is the right way to go after speaking to a certain Mr Cosgrove over a few pints in Pickwicks Bar in Lucerne. I have got to say though I am not a fan of Alex Salmond,but one quote which I fully agree with is the one saying you would not miss out on your dream house because you did not like the wallpaper so do t miss out on a better Scotland because you don't like the leader. He can be changed later.

 

 

There is a saying in Politics, if you dont like the Politics in the room, get rid off the people in the room, and I have seen that happen in a fair few occasions, dirty politics at its best.

[sixties saintee]

Back in the very early Seventies when I was a member off the the SWP ( Socialist Workers Party ) I had a argument with two of my Uncles and there friends they were all SNP over Independence in the end I was called a Communist Agitator , ( Even then Athens ) as I did not then believe Scotland could stand on there own two Feet.

 

As a Scot my heart says go for it, but realistically I still dont think they can.

 

The level of debate has been Infantile, shouty shouty point scoring but that todays is Politics, There are two many Unanswered  questions , Banking, Fiscal, Barnett Funding ( which Cameron / Osbourne will remove at a stroke ) for people to fully make there minds up this has been coming for 4/5 years and everything should be out in the open, and that is why I think the People of Scotland will vote No and Salmon and the SNP should be up for Treason.

 

And ST Dunc no I dont think  I /  we should save a vote we choose to leave Scotland many years ago and have not paid any dues to the country so morally we cannot have a Vote.

[Ali91]

Surprised and disappointed that, as an exile, I am not allowed a vote. Ok, I made a choice to leave when I joined up to serve my Queen and country but that country was Scotland, part of a United Kingdom. I see no reason why this union should not continue but feel that I should have been given the opportunity to express my opinion, just like incomers can, who have made the reverse journey that I did and now live in a place other than that of their birth.

I have no idea what is to be gained by independence and, quite frankly, don't get it. I especially don't understand the amount of bile eminating from some of those in the Yes side towards those on the opposite side. It reminds me of Belfast and Berlin.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

People that live in Scotland should have the vote as it is Scotlands decision. People that don't shouldn't, really is that simple. To suggest your place of birth should see you have a vote on something is getting in to the sort of ethnic nationalism that the Unionists are increasingly guilty of with their talk of foreigners = bad.

I'm voting yes as the people in Scotland will always put Scotland's interests first, whereas just now we are an afterthought.

[McCarry One Nil]

YES

Main reason that we will never ever have a Tory Government again

Prepared to take the chance of a new future for my country

Have nothing at all against any other race just think we should look after our own affairs like every other country in the World

[sixties saintee]

YES

Main reason that we will never ever have a Tory Government again

Prepared to take the chance of a new future for my country

Have nothing at all against any other race just think we should look after our own affairs like every other country in the World

 

 

For all Camerons Posturing over Voting him and all the other Tories I have met and i  know some high ranking people ( vile barstewards believe me,) they want a Yes vote No Scottish MPS in Westminster they will have a field day.Its bad enough what they are inflicting now but People have seen nothing yet as to what they are capable off once they get a mandate then heaven help them.

[HelsinkiSaintee]

For all Camerons Posturing over Voting him and all the other Tories I have met and i  know some high ranking people ( vile barstewards believe me,) they want a Yes vote No Scottish MPS in Westminster they will have a field day.Its bad enough what they are inflicting now but People have seen nothing yet as to what they are capable off once they get a mandate then heaven help them.

 

It doesn't really matter if there are Scottish MPs though does it?  Scotland's vote has only determined the party of government a couple of times since end of WW2 as far as I understand.

[candalan]

It doesn't really matter if there are Scottish MPs though does it?  Scotland's vote has only determined the party of government a couple of times since end of WW2 as far as I understand.

Nowadays it would mean there would never be another labour government in westminster, they could never muster enough majority.

[Honest Saints Fan]

Yes from me.

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Naw.

[HelsinkiSaintee]

Nowadays it would mean there would never be another labour government in westminster, they could never muster enough majority.

Bad luck for them. Labour party is shit.

[sixties saintee]

It doesn't really matter if there are Scottish MPs though does it?  Scotland's vote has only determined the party of government a couple of times since end of WW2 as far as I understand.

 

 

Take away the scottish MPS there would not have been the need off a coalition

[ejksjfc]

Although I have never voted Tory in my life I have got to say their policies are not all bad as some people in Scotland would have us believe, Before anyone starts getting upset I know they also had some horrendous views.