Saints Shamed


Honest Saints Fan
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Seems this has been posted because the OPs beloved Ross County aren't on the list. While it would be nice if everyone got paid more, the minimum wage is what it is, and there are massive more pressing reasons why people in this country are struggling. Maybe we should sign up all our staff on EBTs and not pay NI or PAYE - then they'd be better off? The folk selling pies and coffee - do folk working in all the fast food joints in Perth get living wage? Are they 'shamed' for not doing it. Why are Saints any different? The club has run at a loss for the last 3 years. If my company ran at a loss for three years, i'd be out on my arse, not looking for a pay-rise.

Any opportunity for HSF to put the club down.

Yes any employer not paying the living wage are shameful and an embarrassment and should be called out on it. This documentary is focusing on many employers all over the country not just football teams but this is a St Johnstone forum so this discussion is going to base around us funnily enough.

Interested to know how any people not bothered by this are paid more than the living wage...

Notice your first thing was the attack the poster not the post.

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Yes any employer not paying the living wage are shameful and an embarrassment and should be called out on it. This documentary is focusing on many employers all over the country not just football teams but this is a St Johnstone forum so this discussion is going to base around us funnily enough.

Interested to know how any people not bothered by this are paid more than the living wage...

Notice your first thing was the attack the poster not the post.

Notice the first thing you did was attack St Johnstone FC in your title, rather than the issue itself.

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Whether Saints are barely able to make a profit or not it shouldn't matter, they should be paying the living wage, not the smallest amount they can legally get away with.

 

Would need to see the details of it all though before charging in like a bull.

 

This topic is far from an embarrassment etc

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There is no legal obligation to pay the 'living wage' as long as everyone is being paid the legal minimum wage or above then thats the law!

 

Either change the law or stop whinging.

 

Of course SSE can pay 'living wage' as they've been ripping off everyone for years and have made billions from people who get paid minimum wage and can't afford their energy bills.

 

Wee Bob who owns the chippy doesn't have that luxury.

 

Change the law or get on with it!!!

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Years ago the employers held almost all of the power.

Then the law changed and employees had more rights.

So employers began to employ part time staff to avoid employer national insurance.

Then the minimum wage came in.

Then we got zero hour contracts.

Now we have a generation who, for the most part, are worse off than those who went before them.

Not saying it's proof of cause and effect but there does seem to be a pattern there somewhere.

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Sorry, but her attacks on the football club that we joined this forum for the love of are a bit uncalled for. It's not as if this is the first time.

She's offered her opinion on something she maybe feels strongly about. It's a relevant subject which is being discussed on other forums today as the documentary aired tonight. It's not as if it's just an attack on Saints for no reason, there is a basis behind the thread. I'm about as happy clapper as you can get but if there's a discussion to be had, which there quite clearly is in this case, I wouldn't try and portray myself as a better fan because I take the boards side.

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The OP damns the club based on a headline in a disgusting tabloid newspaper. There was no suggestion of discussion there I'm afraid. Others have made cases for and against living wage.

From a neutral point of view it does come across like you have some sort of vendetta against HSF,

Someone starts a thread about a topic, that leads to discussion. That's the way this forum works.

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The OP damns the club based on a headline in a disgusting tabloid newspaper. There was no suggestion of discussion there I'm afraid. Others have made cases for and against living wage.

 

So would your reaction have been different if she'd linked to the BBC article instead of one from the Sun? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32722572

or the Scotsman one? http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/scottish-football-clubs-failing-on-living-wage-1-3775869

or the Courier one? http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/scotland/dundee-united-and-st-johnstone-among-clubs-slammed-over-living-wage-1.876013

It's a relevant discussion about an issue that the club's being publicly called out on. Personally don't see the issue here.

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HSF didn't start this as a discussion though, her thread title and OP both solely give the impression Saints have done something very wrong and should be ashamed of themselves. If she'd merely highlighted the story it would be different, but she didnt

She highlighted the story and posted her opinion. What else do you want her to do?
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Fair comment. I don't like the manner in whichshe posts topics damning the club. It comes accross as though she enjoys calling the club out. I also found it hard to give credence to a story headed with Doncaster's grinning face. Maybe he should be positively promoting living wage across the SPFL instead of naming and shaming whilst busting a gut to facilitate Rangers paying nobody a penny ever.

It's a valid point of discussion though, across all employment. Naming and shaming in this manner helps no one. It is a matter that needs to be addressed positively.

Edited by montrosesaintee
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She highlighted the story and posted her opinion. What else do you want her to do?

 

Maybe have a headline "Saints and the living wage", post the link and then a brief summary along the lines of "Saints are one of a number of clubs being accused of not paying staff the living wage in an upcoming BBC documentary" and then adding her own opinion. Instead of slamming straight in with headlines about the club being shamed and instantly saying the clubs a disgrace. Regardless of whether her points right or wrong she was always going to get a negative reaction due to the way she went about posting this, it could've been avoided.

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Maybe have a headline "Saints and the living wage", post the link and then a brief summary along the lines of "Saints are one of a number of clubs being accused of not paying staff the living wage in an upcoming BBC documentary" and then adding her own opinion. Instead of slamming straight in with headlines about the club being shamed and instantly saying the clubs a disgrace. Regardless of whether her points right or wrong she was always going to get a negative reaction due to the way she went about posting this, it could've been avoided.

She's not a journalist m8.

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Just throwing this in the mix. There are people out there who gladly work for the minimum wage or lower as it entitles them to higher working tax and child tax credits,ive seen some people nearly double up their weeks earnings with these tax payments. If they earned more from their employers per hour then they would end up worse off. Then theres childcare costs, someone I know recieves £220 per week to pay for her childs full time nursery while she works in a low paid job. Yes employers paying deadpan wages is morally wrong but there is help out there if your entitled to it. No im not trying to be a know it all, I work in a sector where part of my job is helping people sort out their entitlements

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The legally enforceable minimum wage and the optional 21% higher living wage are attempts to improve the lot of workers in full time employment.  I did not see the programme but the"details" on the BBC Website accuse Saints of advertising some vacancies at less than the living wage.  The only vacancies on the Saints Website are for Matchday and Casual bar and waiting staff.  The people who will fill these vacancies, therefore, are unlikely to be depending on the earnings to keep the lights on or to feed themselves.  The ones I have spoken to on the occasions I have been lucky enough to be entertained at McD saw it as a means to earn some extra money whilst enjoying the buzz on matchdays.  I can also say that the firms doing the entertaining have always added generous tips for the staff.

 

So OK paying an extra pound or so per hour would not go amiss but we are hardly talking about a sweatshop employer paying pennies to staff who have to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week to keep themselves at subsistence level which is the impression the author of this thread appears to be suggesting by the phrasing used in the introduction.  What actual evidence did the author have that Saints are shamed or indeed to quote the introduction worthy of being described as "shite" at the point she saw fit to start this thread..

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