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Dundee v St.Johnstone

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teams are now onto us; press us as soon as we get on the ball, don't let us settle.  We're slow and ponderous in possession.  Hibs did it to us, Aberdeen did it from half way thru the second half and Dundee did it last night.  We have to start moving the ball on quicker and dwelling on it far less.  This means players have to be quicker to make themselves available for the pass as well.

we also have to play with a holding midfielder who stays in position all game and doesn't go forward and support our attacks.  There's not enough protection for the defence.  Every time we lose the ball our defence is under pressure and we are susceptible to the counter attack.

Need to be sharper.  Dundee have a shot comes off our keeper they score the rebound.  Liam Craig the same, we're second to it and they clear it.  That was the story all night.

Id get the team in the mindset of a relegation struggle for the next few games.  Be prepared to shitfest your way to a 1-0 win for a few draws away from home.  Play 5 in midfield if need be.   Throw yourself in front of everything for the cause.  Let's get points on the board and distance away from second bottom now instead of carrying on being wide open and getting picked off, and the panic sets in and we have a genuine scrap on our hands.

we had quite a few games last season where we hardly created anything, but a solid defence won us loads of points.  This season we have been far more entertaining to watch, but now we simply need points on the board so for a few weeks that's all we should care about.  A couple of scrappy 1-0 wins would be great...!!

we are missing a decent holding midfielder.Brown maybe could do the job but he seems to be out of the picture. 

Agree with rest of post.

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a few weeks since we humiliated Aberdeen? That was at the beginning of October. We haven't won a game since the beginning of December and after last night I didn't see much to change that any time soon, no fight no passion and extremely poor decisions from Tommy with no plan B and like for like changes. I'm extremely worried that we could end up in a right dog fight for relegation because I can't see this slump changing any time soon.

can't disagree with anything you say! Just desperately trying to cling on to something positive, seriously tho how did we manage to beat Aberdeen?

 

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Teams know to press because we can't do anything without taking 4 or 5 touches of the ball. So unless they get time and space they just hoof it up the park. 

Sadly it looks like the team is managed but not coached. 

This is where Thomson is needed to take a bit of pressure off everyone else. Pretty much the same as when MOH had the ball. You know he is capable of something different. 

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I was listening to a programme on talk sport the other night where they were speaking to an ex rugby player about some players needing a rocket and others needing an arm around their shoulder. David Wotherspoon falls in the second category so ironically cheering him off last night was ridiculously counterproductive. 

 

We were atrocious last night, no fight, no hunger and no footballing ability. Fans turning on the players, the players giving nothing in response. Well played Darnell Fisher though, getting stuck in and actually playing some nice passes. Puts to bed the moronic opinion he only played well last week because he wanted to help Celtic. 

I'd be playing one up top next week with Swanson and Thomson wide. 

 

                        Clark

 

           Fisher Ando Joe Easton

Thomson Muzz Midge Lappin Swanson

               Kane or Cummins

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I'm as annoyed as anyone about last night but the ironic cheers as mentioned above from a section of the crowd when Wotherspoon went off and a chorus of boos as Mannus took a poor goal kick from the same section of the crowd were embarrassing. How does that help anything? So now Spoony knows the fans think he's shite and so does Allan Mannus. Booing collectively at half time and full time is one thing but singling out players who couldn't fail to already know how bad they're playing is not right. 

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I am sure Spoony and Mannus are aware how they are playing at the moment.  This is where either personal character or good management or both come into place.  A telling time in the next few weeks not just for them but the rest of the team.  Do some/ all of the players have clauses where they get wage cuts if demoted?  Certainly performance bonuses must be taking big hits at the moment. 

Edited by Cagerf
add on

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It's like fans think players are doing it deliberately.  Like it's been said before we are a hardworking team who gave their all who grind out results. Yes there were a few freak scores earlier in the season that maybe had some of our fans expecting a bit more . Considering the horrific run we're on I can't believe we are still in the top 6.  

Our aim is to be top six and I think we'll still do it 

Believe? 

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I am sure Spoony and Mannus are aware how they are playing at the moment.  This is where either personal character or good management or both come into place.  A telling time in the next few weeks not just for them but the rest of the team.  Do some/ all of the players have clauses where they get wage cuts if demoted?  Certainly performance bonuses must be taking big hits at the moment. 

Spoony's body language was dreadful from the word go. He looked like he had the worst bout of flu imaginable and was being asked to play a game of football on a freezing cold, soaking wet night in February to boot. Who knows why his game suffers so badly as times but it's the managers responsibility to not hang him out to dry like that when he's so off form. We have seen in the past - whether we agree with it or not - a couple of games on the bench and he inevitably comes on and changes a game and is back to his best. Thomson should've started last night. Failing that he should've replaced Wotherspoon, not Craig. The most ironic thing about last night is that we got worse after Spoony went off. Which probably says more about TW than Spoony. The substitution was shocking. 

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I'm as annoyed as anyone about last night but the ironic cheers as mentioned above from a section of the crowd when Wotherspoon went off and a chorus of boos as Mannus took a poor goal kick from the same section of the crowd were embarrassing. How does that help anything? So now Spoony knows the fans think he's shite and so does Allan Mannus. Booing collectively at half time and full time is one thing but singling out players who couldn't fail to already know how bad they're playing is not right. 

I've never understood that myself and I actually think the two players mentioned deserve respect for their achievements in our colours. I'd drop Spoony personally, but I'd never boo the lad off the pitch.

I actually think as a club we have a fairly large chunk of fans that are pretty fickle. I've been quite surprised  how quickly some have turned on the lads. I'm all for "your only as good as your last game", but booing individual players under contract is pretty pointless and will never do any good.

I'd argue until last night I still saw plenty of effort in the lads, rather it's been the clubs transfer policy that has failed us. Whether that's Brown or Wrights fault or a mix of both I'm unsure.

We won't do a Hibs and will be ok this season, but unless we invest better and address the squad as a whole we will be in trouble very soon.

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Calm down lads ffs!  Saints have benefited immensely from a core of solid professionals and an excellent management team but they are injured or a year.older it gets increasingly difficult to sustain....and further opposition coaches and players get wise to the rhythms of any god side and start to line up with tactics to suit.  Stir in two cup exits and the loss of a corinthian captain for the foreseeable future, this season in best written off from here on in.  TW is better deploying youngsters and take pressure off the likes of spoons, clearly a confidence player, last thing he needs is attention from the boo boys.  I would be astonished if you failed to make top six.

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His problem is the fact he has an underperforming player he trusts (Wotherspoon, Mannus, MacLean), and a performing player he doesnt (Thomson, Clark, Kane), and he'll always, always revert back to those he trusts once their fit. The untrusted players never get a proper run in the side to actually prove themselves. One start every month and the odd ten minutes here and there is just pointless.

So, Zander Clark, Craig Thomson and Chris Kane are top six Premiership players?

Last nights line up would have looked something like...

Clark

Fisher Ando Shaughnessy Scobbie

        Lappin   Davidson

Swanson                 Thomson

       Cummins     Kane

 

I dont know how that would solve anything 

Edited by R.B.B:- Adz

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I think what makes it worse is that it was plainly obvious to everyone that we'd end up with a stretched squad at this stage of the season. We didn't recruit well in the summer, held onto players (Brown and Caddis) who should have been gone then and in the last transfer window came out weaker than we went into it. Don't think MOH is too much of a miss, but we a painfully thin on the ground and as we can see, it only takes a few injuries and we are struggling.

The team needs freshening up, but we don't have much options. Agree that Wotherspoon would benefit from some time on the bench, but we cannot expect Thomson to be some kind of saviour.

We really need to invest in the squad in the summer if we keep up, and I think we will. We cannot go another season relying on our ever aging players and we cannot rely on picking up free players and out of contract players.

Id like to see us spend a little on picking up some players from the lower leagues and developing them, like we did with Davidson and Dundee are doing with Hemmings and Stewart.

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So, Zander Clark, Craig Thomson and Chris Kane are top six Premiership players?

Last nights line up would have looked something like...

Clark

Fisher Ando Shaughnessy Scobbie

        Lappin   Davidson

Swanson                 Thomson

       Cummins     Kane

 

I dont know how that would solve anything 

Swanson and Thomson are on the wrong sides but a team like that would've given us more pace which was the biggest problem last night. So slow.  

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Calm down lads ffs!  Saints have benefited immensely from a core of solid professionals and an excellent management team but they are injured or a year.older it gets increasingly difficult to sustain....and further opposition coaches and players get wise to the rhythms of any god side and start to line up with tactics to suit.  Stir in two cup exits and the loss of a corinthian captain for the foreseeable future, this season in best written off from here on in.  TW is better deploying youngsters and take pressure off the likes of spoons, clearly a confidence player, last thing he needs is attention from the boo boys.  I would be astonished if you failed to make top six.

you're right in that turning against the manager and the players is definitely the wrong thing to do.  And to be honest they don't deserve that.

but it's easy to say we'll be fine, the win will come as there's ages yet.  That just won't happen without a change in mindset and probably tactics.  Hibs did exactly that.. 'Our seasons done, let's experiment and just play out the season and build from there.'  They got relegated.  We are only a few wins from the play off place.

I think we have the players to turn it round, and we certainly have the manager, but let's not assume it will happen automatically.  We haven't won since 5th December.

The players need to get the sleeves rolled up and put everything into getting a win.  The sooner the better!!

 

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Who knows why his game suffers so badly as times but it's the managers responsibility to not hang him out to dry like that when he's so off form. We have seen in the past - whether we agree with it or not - a couple of games on the bench and he inevitably comes on and changes a game and is back to his best. 

agree.  He needs a break and to be out the spotlight so he can come on and make an impact without the pressure of starting.  It seems we just keep dropping the poor lad in every game in the hope that something will change.

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Maybe you're right Paulo....but do you really see hibs here? I don't.....but I don't see them for mins every week.  The comments on this thread are through the floor, yet a week ago yous matched Aberdeen all over the park and demonstrated qualities I never saw from hibs back then....or united for the last year!

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So, Zander Clark, Craig Thomson and Chris Kane are top six Premiership players?

Last nights line up would have looked something like...

Clark

Fisher Ando Shaughnessy Scobbie

        Lappin   Davidson

Swanson                 Thomson

       Cummins     Kane

 

I dont know how that would solve anything 

We'll never know if they are, because they never play. 

And they'd add pace and directness, which is the one thing we lost when MOHs head got turned and this bad run begun. Ideally Id have us lining up against Motherwell next week like this..

 

Clark

Fisher - Ando - Joe - Easton

Millar - Muzz

Thomson - Swanson - Craig

Cummins

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I think Wotherspoon had a virus or something last season & he has never been same since. Looks slow  and  heavy legged.

He always looked better as an impact sub.

Agree cheering him getting subbed will not help but I am sure it it sheer frustration & probably directed at Wright as much as Spoony.

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I was listening to a programme on talk sport the other night where they were speaking to an ex rugby player about some players needing a rocket and others needing an arm around their shoulder. David Wotherspoon falls in the second category so ironically cheering him off last night was ridiculously counterproductive. 

 

We were atrocious last night, no fight, no hunger and no footballing ability. Fans turning on the players, the players giving nothing in response. Well played Darnell Fisher though, getting stuck in and actually playing some nice passes. Puts to bed the moronic opinion he only played well last week because he wanted to help Celtic. 

I'd be playing one up top next week with Swanson and Thomson wide. 

 

                        Clark

 

           Fisher Ando Joe Easton

Thomson Muzz Midge Lappin Swanson

               Kane or Cummins

fuuuukkkk yeah. 

 

Thats is exactly what's needed as our defense knows man us will let at least two goals in Zander wil install fight as will the other young guys 

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If replacing Mannus with Clark, Scobbie with Easton, Wotherspoon with Thomson and Craig for Maclean is the masterstroke then we are truly doomed!!

What has Scobbie done to warrant being replaced?

What has Clark done to convince you that he is a better goalkeeper than one involved in a European Championship squad?

Which of the aforementioned qualities lacking such as pace, endeavour and drive does Liam Craig bring that Maclean doesn't? 

 

Thomson in for Wotherspoon probably isn't a bad idea as Thomson has raw pace and provides an outlet for a team lacking confidence to ping diagonals for him to chase..

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