The ghost of Jim Morton

Hearts v Saints 19/3/16 K-O 3pm

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Guest ScottMann

wiki on JC

"Connolly left Queens in May 2004 to replace Billy Stark as manager of former club St Johnstone, with his former assistant Iain Scott taking over at Queens.[4] After a disappointing first season, Connolly was sacked from his position with St Johnstone on 4 April 2005,[6] with the team finishing in 8th place and only avoiding relegation in the last few weeks of the season. He was succeeded by Owen Coyle."

Quoting an opinion on wiki to back up a point speaks volumes. Hold on 5 minutes and I'll change it to what I want it to read and then quote it back.

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Mannus looked very assured. Couple of really good saves.

I'm one of his biggest critics but he looked solid throughout and a couple of great saves which could have changed the game. We looked like a different team on Saturday, the one I was used to watching before Christmas. The bad St.Johnstone was like watching in black and white, the good St.Johnstone were in High Def.  Roll on summer football.

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Because its a different stand in question.

Anyone claiming Connolly is more deserving of legend status than MacLean is completely ****ing deluded by rose tinted specs. MacLeans scored huge goals in Europe, and has played a major role in us finishing third and winning our first ever trophy, even scoring in the Final. His partnership with May will be talked about for years. Connolly didnt come close to those achievements 

Connolly scored in European 3rd round never mind qualifier, also played in a cup final against the European champions, but failed to score, he then played at the highest level in England and got a cap, to say he never got near McLeans achievements is ludicrous!This when two Scottish clubs WON a European trophy not cannon fodder like nowadays,the standard Connolly played at all his career is far and beyond McLeans

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Connolly scored in European 3rd round never mind qualifier, also played in a cup final against the European champions, but failed to score, he then played at the highest level in England and got a cap, to say he never got near McLeans achievements is ludicrous!This when two Scottish clubs WON a European trophy not cannon fodder like nowadays,the standard Connolly played at all his career is far and beyond McLeans

The standards not higher in this Country, its just higher elsewhere, its utterly pointless suggesting Connolly playing against full backs who'd spent a morning smoking and getting pished is more difficult than MacLean playing against 6ft+ athletes. His achievements elsewhere shouldn't matter either, MacLean played a major part in winning St Johnstone a trophy, Connolly didnt.

As I've said, both can be considered legends, I've no problem with that. You simply can't say Connolly is and MacLean isnt though.

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As I've said, both can be considered legends, I've no problem with that. You simply can't say Connolly is and MacLean isnt though.

My complaint was you said Connolly never got near McLeans achievements which is nonsense, playing in the top English league for years, I'm sure against players who didn't have a fag prematch.I take Pele, Maradonna, Best and Cruyff were all lesser players than Macca too then,?playing against fag smoking beer swilling defenders.At no time did I say Macca wasn't!

Edited by dave mc

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Guest ScottMann

Connolly playing against full backs who'd spent a morning smoking and getting pished

Oh good, gossip. Who were they then?

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My complaint was you said Connolly never got near McLeans achievements which is nonsense, playing in the top English league for years, I'm sure against players who didn't have a fag prematch.I take Pele, Maradonna, Best and Cruyff were all lesser players than Macca too then,?playing against fag smoking beer swilling defenders.At no time did I say Macca wasn't!

I was on about their achievements with Saints, their legend status shouldn't be defined by achievements elsewhere. MacLean won a major trophy and is a major part of the side which is now, officially and factually, the most successful side in our history in terms of trophies won and in terms of league positions. Connolly helped us finish 3rd and beat Hamburg, reached a Final once too. MacLeans done more. If you want to say Connolly was better then thats your opinion, but their achievements dont match up. 

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I was on about their achievements with Saints, their legend status shouldn't be defined by achievements elsewhere. MacLean won a major trophy and is a major part of the side which is now, officially and factually, the most successful side in our history in terms of trophies won and in terms of league positions. Connolly helped us finish 3rd and beat Hamburg, reached a Final once too. MacLeans done more. If you want to say Connolly was better then thats your opinion, but their achievements dont match up. 

See that wiki,handy thing.Hamburg were a really top team at the time too, if Connolly wasn't playing against the Lisbon Lions he'd have won a trophy, something Jim Craig of Celtic mentioned on off the ball.He was a full back, but never smoked or drank before games, and was a qualified dentist to boot

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See that wiki,handy thing.Hamburg were a really top team at the time too, if Connolly wasn't playing against the Lisbon Lions he'd have won a trophy, something Jim Craig of Celtic mentioned on off the ball.He was a full back, but never smoked or drank before games, and was a qualified dentist to boot

If, would've, could've. I've no doubt Connolly and the team of that era were special, and theres a solid shout the Lisbon Lions are the greatest Scottish team ever, but that shouldn't mean MacLeans achievements, or this teams achievements, should be downgraded. 

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If, would've, could've. I've no doubt Connolly and the team of that era were special, and theres a solid shout the Lisbon Lions are the greatest Scottish team ever, but that shouldn't mean MacLeans achievements, or this teams achievements, should be downgraded. 

I've never done that, but you discounted all that Connolly did as insignificant, but he played at a much better level than Macca ever has, and was a far better footballer,as was Hall,Jimmy White, Jim O'Rourke,Paul Wright, Baltacha, Kernaghan amongst many others

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I've never done that, but you discounted all that Connolly did as insignificant, but he played at a much better level than Macca ever has, and was a far better footballer,as was Hall,Jimmy White, Jim O'Rourke,Paul Wright, Baltacha, Kernaghan amongst many others

I said Connollys achievements don't match MacLeans, which is something I stand by. You can talk about better players, harder leagues, bigger names all you like but its an undeniable fact. I don't want to make it seem like I'm saying Connolly achieved nothing, or doesnt deserve to be called a legend, but if you want to call him that then you can't exclude MacLean.

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Apologies to all WAP'ers regarding this thread being turned into a defend McLean one, from an opinion in a post made regarding an off form player not being on the pitch and the marked difference it made in the way the team performed at high tempo and with movement. These will be my last comments on the subject to those who have come back at me regarding my opinion. Comment if you wish. I will not reply. 

A striker who wears the No 9 does / should not sacrifice himself for anyone in the team, to wear the No 9 that person should be an out and out striker, greedy, selfish and egotistical. Not no the pitch to make someone else look good.

18 league games he's played + 2 coming on as a sub = 10 goals = 50% = a reasonable return rate. However not such a good return when you factor in the fact that his last League goal was 17th October, 5 months ago and with only 1 cup goal on the 27th October (yes i know there was a time out with injury) my point remains exactly the same.

As a STRIKER his form is rank and should not have been on the pitch as often as he has in these months, that others should have been picked before him, that there was a marked difference in the set up, style and performance of the team on Saturday.       

Who needs to defend a Legend.! In Tommy we trust.! and he is the man who picks Macca.! I personally think that Macca would not want to play if he thought he was not worth his salt.!

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So a topic involving a game where a true legend has been born in the shape of Ando,   has been overtaken by guys trying to compare a player who has come to saints to end his career against a player who came to the club as a youngster before moving on and only playing 96 games. 

Legends is the most overused word in football. 

 

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Im not saying Connolly isnt a legend. Im saying MacLean has far more of a claim to that tag than Connolly, so you cant say Connolly is and MacLean isnt. Their achievements dont match up no matter how much those living in the past hope it does.

This is the most successful period in our history, no question, Ormonds era doesnt compare.

Did you ever see Connolly play, random.

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Folks massively misunderstood my post. 

I wasnt slagging Connolly off as a player, I was merely stating I never saw him play. How can a guy I've never seen play be classed as a legend? I've only got his poor managerial stint to go on. He'll never be a legend in my eyes, I've no issue with him being classed as one in older generations memories. 

My point was in 30 years time, I'll be recalling McLean as a legend because of what he's done. He's my generations hero (one of) so to speak. Maybe his achievements aren't as good (they're better IMO) but he's of my generation. 

People pled really take things too seriously. Only Rik appears to have actually got what I was saying, but apparently I'm a disgrace or whatnot for not classing a guy I never once say play as "world class" or the hero he is. He'll forever go down as a failure of a manager to me. 

I also never saw Connolly play and only associate him with failure in his short time as manager here. Quite happy for other people to remember him differently and call him a legend though. Maybe one day Macca will return to McDiarmid Park and manage a future team of legends. Saturday made me deliriously happy and it hasn't worn off yet as you can probably tell! :laugh:

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 I'm saying hes played a bigger part in bigger achievements.

Which isn't necessarily the universal criteria for legend status.

 

Congrats to Ando, well played Saints.

Anyone else find it bizarre how similar Davidson's two goals were. Not sure I've seen something like that before.

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