PanamaSaint

The Mosque

Recommended Posts

Regardless of whatever religion it may be for, if somebody want to build a facility that can be used by part or all of the community in central Perth, then that can only be a good thing for the city. At the moment, the site in an empty builders yard and the alternative would be flats, which would have a much bigger parking issue.

As for the increase in cars, it's a replacement for the site a couple of hundred yards along the road. There is not all of a sudden going to be hundreds of extra worshipers deciding to suddenly start going. Yes I'd imagine the numbers will grow, but then there is a limit on the number of people who can fit in. If we want to highlight parking issues in the area, it should be the massively inadequate parking at the PRI.

Very proud of Perth the other week and how the people spoke out. Yes, there may be planning issues, but that is all it is and should be. Yes, it should have maybe had more scrutiny over the plans from the council. But, to turn it into something other than that is what divides communities up and down the country much more than anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

 

 

Regardless of whatever religion it may be for, if somebody want to build a facility that can be used by part or all of the community in central Perth, then that can only be a good thing for the city. At the moment, the site in an empty builders yard and the alternative would be flats, which would have a much bigger parking issue.

As for the increase in cars, it's a replacement for the site a couple of hundred yards along the road. There is not all of a sudden going to be hundreds of extra worshipers deciding to suddenly start going. Yes I'd imagine the numbers will grow, but then there is a limit on the number of people who can fit in. If we want to highlight parking issues in the area, it should be the massively inadequate parking at the PRI.

Very proud of Perth the other week and how the people spoke out. Yes, there may be planning issues, but that is all it is and should be. Yes, it should have maybe had more scrutiny over the plans from the council. But, to turn it into something other than that is what divides communities up and down the country much more than anything else.

  1. If there were flats built there instead then the company buidling the flats would be bound by regulations to provide additional parking (see below). Why should a place of worship be any different?
  2. I honestly can't see the mosque being made for public use, what else do you think it can be used for? Muslims do not allow footwear in their place of worship.
  3. There are parking issues at the current mosque as worshipers park at Aldi car park and walk up for prayers. It will be bedlam at the proposed new site and I sympathise with the locals in the area who want to speak out but will no doubt be labelled racists.
  4. The counter protest the other week looked more like a political rally with lots of separate entities waving their own flags/banners with their own agendas. A small percentage of the counter protest were from perth.
Type of Accomodation Dwelling size (bedrooms) Total no. of parking spaces required per dwelling (unassigned spaces) Total no. of parking spaces required per dwelling (assigned spaces)*
Apartments Bedsit and 1 bed 1.25 1.5
Apartments

2 ed

1.5 1.75
Apartments 3 bed 1.75 2.0
Terrace houses 1 and 2 bed 1.5 1.75
Terrace houses 3 bed 1.75

2.0

Edited by Tricky78

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tricky, there were anti nazis among the counter protest who did not come from Perth, but the majority were from Perth.  A load of EDL were bused in from Durham, they carried flags emblazoned with white supremacist insignia, and were giving it the Hitler salute.....do you really think they are here to protest about a local  parking issue? Really? To show solidarity with the residents of Jeanfield Road?  Or Is it in reality, quite accurate to label these individuals as 'racists'? 

 How many objections have the council actually received over this issue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Tricky, there were anti nazis among the counter protest who did not come from Perth, but the majority were from Perth.  A load of EDL were bused in from Durham, they carried flags emblazoned with white supremacist insignia, and were giving it the Hitler salute.....do you really think they are here to protest about a local  parking issue? Really? To show solidarity with the residents of Jeanfield Road?  Or Is it in reality, quite accurate to label these individuals as 'racists'? 

 How many objections have the council actually received over this issue?

 I watched the whole protest (both sides) and didn't see any hitler salutes.

Both sides of the protest were as bad as each other with their hangers on who hijacked the protest with their own agendas.

There were 5 objections to the mosque out of the handful or residents that were informed of the plans. I know someone who lives near the proposed site who wasn't informed. The mosque has a wider impact that just the immediate (adjacent) neighbours imo and more of the residents should have been informed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'Both sides are as bad' as each other? I don't think so, the SDL and EDL are open supporters of white supremacist ideologies based on hatred and boundless cruelty, they have high jacked a local planning issue in order to provide a platform for their hate.  I cannot accept that the collection of hundreds of perth residents who chose to protest in solidarity with other members of our community are 'the same'.  

Did the EDL bus themselves from Durham as an act of solidarity with 5 objectors, or do you think they just might have an agenda, somewhat different to that of the counter protesters?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

'Both sides are as bad' as each other? I don't think so, the SDL and EDL are open supporters of white supremacist ideologies based on hatred and boundless cruelty, they have high jacked a local planning issue in order to provide a platform for their hate.  I cannot accept that the collection of hundreds of perth residents who chose to protest in solidarity with other members of our community are 'the same'.  

Did the EDL bus themselves from Durham as an act of solidarity with 5 objectors, or do you think they just might have an agenda, somewhat different to that of the counter protesters?

There was one arrest on the day and it was someone who was part of the counter protest.

 

I saw people from the counter protest, charge at a bus (near the strain station) charging police lines (in south street), throwing smoke bombs (again in south street) and abusing locals who were just down to watch.

So yes both sides were as bad as each other, in fact a case could be made that the counter protest were worse.

 

I'm not an SDL/EDL follower but they have distanced themselves from Nazi salutes etc and seem to oppose the muslim  take over in the UK (as they put it), they also protest against the muslim grooming gangs in the UK. There was a gentleman of colour in their ranks so there certainly aren't "white supremacists" as you put it.

They used the building of the mosque as a crutch for their protest no doubt about that but they were a lot more restrained and less confrontational than I expected. Certainly not the Nazis they have been labelled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

There was one arrest on the day and it was someone who was part of the counter protest.

 

I saw people from the counter protest, charge at a bus (near the strain station) charging police lines (in south street), throwing smoke bombs (again in south street) and abusing locals who were just down to watch.

So yes both sides were as bad as each other, in fact a case could be made that the counter protest were worse.

 

I'm not an SDL/EDL follower but they have distanced themselves from Nazi salutes etc and seem to oppose the muslim  take over in the UK (as they put it), they also protest against the muslim grooming gangs in the UK. There was a gentleman of colour in their ranks so there certainly aren't "white supremacists" as you put it.

They used the building of the mosque as a crutch for their protest no doubt about that but they were a lot more restrained and less confrontational than I expected. Certainly not the Nazis they have been labelled.

There were black guys in the N.F. and the B.M. back in the 70's , early 80's,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

There was one arrest on the day and it was someone who was part of the counter protest.

 

I saw people from the counter protest, charge at a bus (near the strain station) charging police lines (in south street), throwing smoke bombs (again in south street) and abusing locals who were just down to watch.

So yes both sides were as bad as each other, in fact a case could be made that the counter protest were worse.

 

I'm not an SDL/EDL follower but they have distanced themselves from Nazi salutes etc and seem to oppose the muslim  take over in the UK (as they put it), they also protest against the muslim grooming gangs in the UK. There was a gentleman of colour in their ranks so there certainly aren't "white supremacists" as you put it.

They used the building of the mosque as a crutch for their protest no doubt about that but they were a lot more restrained and less confrontational than I expected. Certainly not the Nazis they have been labelled.

One arrest, out of 800 protesters.  I was at the train station and on south Street,  'charging' would be something of an exaggeration.  I heard about the smoke bomb, but did not see it, so cannot comment. 

The reason the SDL were "restrained' is due entirely to the police presence and the counter demonstrations.  If there were 800 SDL on the streets you would have real problem, not the police training exercises we saw that Sunday.

Does the presence of a mosque in a town 50,000 people constitute the 'mu slim take over' of the UK?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, earlier than that, in the twenties. Most racist parties start out by pretending not to be racist (by simply redefining what "racist" means, usually disguising it as a fightback against the mythical PC brigades). It serves their interests to find useful idiots from within the groups they persecute, and to put them front and centre. Some unuseful idiots then swallow the "we're not racist because we have a black member" nonsense, which is about as convincing as the "we're not racist because I once shagged a paki/ate a kebab/played football with a wog" line that you sometimes get on here. 

Anyone who doesn't recognise EDL/Scottish Dawn/SDL or whatever these lunatics are calling themselves this week as neo-Nazis is either a bampot or, well, a neo-Nazi. Just go on their sites, move past the bland Daily Mail-esque official statements, and read what the troops on the ground are saying in the comments sections. They can barely wait to get the ovens fired up.

It is essential that these demonstrations are not banned however, so that democracy is seen to be strong, and so that folk can see them for the plukey bed-wetting saddoes they are.

Edited by Abernethy Saint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

No, earlier than that, in the twenties. Most racist parties start out by pretending not to be racist (by simply redefining what "racist" means, usually disguising it as a fightback against the mythical PC brigades). It serves their interests to find useful idiots from within the groups they persecute, and to put them front and centre. Some unuseful idiots then swallow the "we're not racist because we have a black member" nonsense, which is about as convincing as the "we're not racist because I once shagged a paki/ate a kebab/played football with a wog" line that you sometimes get on here. 

Anyone who doesn't recognise EDL/Scottish Dawn/SDL or whatever these lunatics are calling themselves this week as neo-Nazis is either a bampot or, well, a neo-Nazi. Just go on their sites, move past the bland Daily Mail-esque official statements, and read what the troops on the ground are saying in the comments sections. They can barely wait to get the ovens fired up.

It is essential that these demonstrations are not banned however, so that democracy is seen to be strong, and so that folk can see them for the plukey bed-wetting saddoes they are.

That has got to be the most balanced and sensible thing said in the entire thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

No, earlier than that, in the twenties. Most racist parties start out by pretending not to be racist (by simply redefining what "racist" means, usually disguising it as a fightback against the mythical PC brigades). It serves their interests to find useful idiots from within the groups they persecute, and to put them front and centre. Some unuseful idiots then swallow the "we're not racist because we have a black member" nonsense, which is about as convincing as the "we're not racist because I once shagged a paki/ate a kebab/played football with a wog" line that you sometimes get on here. 

Anyone who doesn't recognise EDL/Scottish Dawn/SDL or whatever these lunatics are calling themselves this week as neo-Nazis is either a bampot or, well, a neo-Nazi. Just go on their sites, move past the bland Daily Mail-esque official statements, and read what the troops on the ground are saying in the comments sections. They can barely wait to get the ovens fired up.

It is essential that these demonstrations are not banned however, so that democracy is seen to be strong, and so that folk can see them for the plukey bed-wetting saddoes they are.

Every group has its fair share of oddballs, it's like saying all old firm fans are racist bigots (which they aren't). Not all of the SDL look like as you've described. I"m sure there are people within their ranks who are genuinely concerned the the growing muslim influence within the the UK and the muslim grooming gangs etc. I certainly wouldn't want to bring my daughter up in the likes of Luton etc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

One arrest, out of 800 protesters.  I was at the train station and on south Street,  'charging' would be something of an exaggeration.  I heard about the smoke bomb, but did not see it, so cannot comment. 

The reason the SDL were "restrained' is due entirely to the police presence and the counter demonstrations.  If there were 800 SDL on the streets you would have real problem, not the police training exercises we saw that Sunday.

Does the presence of a mosque in a town 50,000 people constitute the 'mu slim take over' of the UK?  

No it doesn't but I did state earlier that there's no doubt the SDL used this as an excuse to protest. There were people from perth within their ranks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

One arrest, out of 800 protesters.  I was at the train station and on south Street,  'charging' would be something of an exaggeration.  I heard about the smoke bomb, but did not see it, so cannot comment. 

The reason the SDL were "restrained' is due entirely to the police presence and the counter demonstrations.  If there were 800 SDL on the streets you would have real problem, not the police training exercises we saw that Sunday.

Does the presence of a mosque in a town 50,000 people constitute the 'mu slim take over' of the UK?  

  1. There wasn't 800 protesters, plenty of onlookers who were there to watch but not 800 protesters.
  2. The protesters DID charge the bus at the train station, I was standing right next to where it happened.
  3. The smoke bomb was thrown and the protesters were rounded up by police at which point they started abusing anyone in the area calling them nazis.

The counter protest were calling the SDL protest Nazi scum, how is this acceptable? This is no different from people branding all muslims ISIS supporters and suicide bombers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Every group has its fair share of oddballs, it's like saying all old firm fans are racist bigots (which they aren't). Not all of the SDL look like as you've described. I"m sure there are people within their ranks who are genuinely concerned the the growing muslim influence within the the UK and the muslim grooming gangs etc. I certainly wouldn't want to bring my daughter up in the likes of Luton etc.

 

The vast majority of convicted paedophiles in this country are white Christians. Why do you and your ilk only go on about the brown ones? It's almost as if you were hijacking the suffering of children to feed a racist agenda. I'm sure that's not true, though.

How has your life in, say, the last six months specifically - specifically - been affected by this mysterious "growing Muslim influence"? 

My life has been adversely affected in many small but annoying ways by weird Christians and their influence. Things are better now as fewer and fewer people swallow their sky-fairy nonsense, but it's still there to a degree. Muslims, who I understand have a very slightly different sky-fairy, have not affected me one jot.   Ever. At all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think we are going to agree on this Tricky....I was at the station when the bus came, there may have been a slight surge, but nothing that could be described as a charge.  

There were hundreds of protesters at the station and hundreds more dotted around the town.  

You seem unwilling to categorise the SDL as nazis....I would refer you to Abernethy's post about how these groups operate, calling a group of SDL activists nazis is not on the same planet as calling all muslims isis activists.  I know there were individuals from Perth among their numbers; one was formerly, maybe still an organiser for the BNP, another has been convicted of hate crime, another is a prominent member of the orange order.  Yes they have the right to protest, the rest of perth have the right to counter protest.

The antifas protesters are student activists from Dundee, masks and and smoke bombs are as violent as they get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...