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Tranmere Saintee

Partick v Saints 28/10/17

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My view is that Saints and Tommy Wright are stale and a busted flush.  Others have at least tried to excuse away our tailspin as being "a blip"...

But yours is a cracking argument, sport...

 

 “watching a dead team “ is cracking herts.one of the best quotes I seen in ages.

 

more popcorn with lashings of voddie please.

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Guess I must be one of the "least of us" then.  I have no confidence whatsoever that we are going to start scoring any time soon, let alone start taking anything out of games.

We're watching a dead team with no self-belief now.  I saw a lot of the Hibs side of a few seasons ago that ended with them being relegated, and this Saints team horribly remind me of that.  Poor quality, predictable, bad to watch, lacking in confidence, some awful signings, and whether anyone wants to hear it or not, a management team that don't actually know how to make it better - or if they do, the're not doing it.  A rebuild has been needed for a couple of seasons now, but we've not done it, and unfortunately this has been coming.  At this level, unless you're a club that has cash to spend, I'm afraid everyone at a club in any capacity has a shelf life - players and managers.  When a team becomes stale, the forward looking clubs that change on a regular basis generally wise up to it pretty fast.  That's what's happening to us now.  Other teams have sussed St Johnstone out.  They know our players, and they know our game plan (when there is one).  In short, they know how to win against us.

As Edstar said, there's no room for sentiment.  The manager failed to rebuild the team from the bottom up when he should have 3 seasons ago, and has relied on largely the same core set of players doing pretty much the same thing the same way.  That team peaked back then.  Look at the big sides when they win something, what's the first thing they do?  Pretty much dismantle it and start again.  I'm not saying that it's the manager's fault, things could have been beyond his control, but for whatever reason, it wasn't done, and we are where we are now.  In my opinion, the manager needs a new challenge and Saints desperately need fresh ideas.  I'd hate for this to go on and see Tommy Wright forced out under a cloud.  But as I said, the comparison to Hibs under Fenlon and Butcher to they way we're playing is scary.

Having said all that, we'll probably go out and beat Celtic on Saturday...

At least you're keeping things in perspective, though. 

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At least you're keeping things in perspective, though. 

Nah, it's just an opinion on a football team.  I'm more concerned about maintaining perspective when it's something important.  Great that so many folk are able to see the positives though - keep it up...

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2010/11 6 games without a league win - twice (Feb-Mar & Apr) LDLDDD   DLLLLL

2011/12 7 games without a league win (Apr-May) LDLLLLL

2012/13 5 games without a league win (Aug) LDLLD

2015/16 7 games without a league win (Dec-Feb) LDLDLLL

If that's correct! We've had lots of runs of four games, but so does every team.

I'm not sure the argument that we have a run like the current one at this time of year is correct.

Potentially this run could go on to equal our worst in recent times.

But, again if the above is correct, we haven't had too many as bad as this in 8 seasons.

Didn't look at opposition or whether home or away.

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Alston was one of the players I wanted signed & he did OK last season despite being played out of position. This season he has been poor.

Tommy is doing the same with Scougall so I would imagine he will regress as well.

 

1. Alston has been injured nearly all season so far. Very hard to judge him this season based on that fact. 

2. Your petty personal vendetta on Tommy is becoming tiresome.  You seem desperate to be shot of the best manager St Johnstone have ever had.

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2010/11 6 games without a league win - twice (Feb-Mar & Apr) LDLDDD   DLLLLL

2011/12 7 games without a league win (Apr-May) LDLLLLL

2012/13 5 games without a league win (Aug) LDLLD

2015/16 7 games without a league win (Dec-Feb) LDLDLLL

If that's correct! We've had lots of runs of four games, but so does every team.

I'm not sure the argument that we have a run like the current one at this time of year is correct.

Potentially this run could go on to equal our worst in recent times.

But, again if the above is correct, we haven't had too many as bad as this in 8 seasons.

Didn't look at opposition or whether home or away.

Memory serves me our bad runs are typically November time for the month.

We're getting this season's out the way earlier I hope.

Looking ahead.. We need form for December.  Who the fuc organises so many games in December!

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League games only. 

2010/11 - 4 game losing streak, run of one goal in six games. Run of one goal in eleven games, no wins in eleven games. 

11/12 - 3 game winless streak, no goals in three games. Seven game winless streak, one goal in seven games. 

12/13 - Five game winless streak. Six game winless streak. 

TOMMY WRIGHT ERA

13/14 - Five game winless streak. Four game winless streak, no goals scored. 

14/15 - Six game winless streak. Four game winless streak. 

15/16 - Four game winless streak. Seven game winless streak, no goals scored in first four. 

16/17 - Four game winless streak. 

17/18 - Five game winless streak, no goals scored. 

Take from that whatever you want. 

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1. Alston has been injured nearly all season so far. Very hard to judge him this season based on that fact. 

2. Your petty personal vendetta on Tommy is becoming tiresome.  You seem desperate to be shot of the best manager St Johnstone have ever had.

I don't have a petty personal vendetta ,dislike,hate or anything else.

I do criticise the fact that we have gone 4 seasons & not signed a decent striker.

I do criticise the fact that we have wasted wages on guys that never play.

I do criticise the fact that (I think) he has signed good players wasted them in the wrong position.

I do criticise the fact that we were beat by a poor team in Europe & we have shitfested nearly every game & supplied zero entertainment.

We also took half our support to Dundee & Edinburgh & got beat by poor teams.

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I love it  when someone comes in here and gives their opinion and then the usual suspects try to disrespect that persons opinion by (a) calling them a panic merchant (or words to the effect)  (b) simply mocking them or (c) very occasionally  trying to present a counter argument.

 

Herts has got some valid points and I agree with a lot of what he's said.  NOBODY wants the manager sacked. NOBODY wants to see the team  going downhill. NOBODY wants to see loyal players  moved on.. but the simple fact is that we have an aging squad . Many of them are on the way down and the team does need major surgery. We  really really needed a striker but for whatever reason all we got was Denny Johnstone who is  ( on what I have seen of him  ) pretty hopeless at this level.  We all hope that things pick up but some of us see something this year we have not seen for a long time. We see a team in decline.

Some fans  cannot  accept  even constructive criticism  and  merrily  pound on, reminding us at every turn to " Keep the Faith" .  I am a St.Johnstone supporter, I will continue to support my team, whatever league they are in as I and many others have for many years but  if the team are not winning games, if the team are not scoring goals and if some of the players no longer look  up to the job, I  refuse to just bury my head in the sand and  claim " everythings fine" and "nothing to see here"

Everything is far from fine, but by fitbas very nature, there is an opportunity to  pull out of the tailspin. I hope that the manager, the players and the board  make it happen..  I hope they do. I hope I am wrong and that the others are right but  I can't see  where it's coming from..

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I love it  when someone comes in here and gives their opinion and then the usual suspects try to disrespect that persons opinion by (a) calling them a panic merchant (or words to the effect)  (b) simply mocking them or (c) very occasionally  trying to present a counter argument.

 

Herts has got some valid points and I agree with a lot of what he's said.  NOBODY wants the manager sacked. NOBODY wants to see the team  going downhill. NOBODY wants to see loyal players  moved on.. but the simple fact is that we have an aging squad . Many of them are on the way down and the team does need major surgery. We  really really needed a striker but for whatever reason all we got was Denny Johnstone who is  ( on what I have seen of him  ) pretty hopeless at this level.  We all hope that things pick up but some of us see something this year we have not seen for a long time. We see a team in decline.

Some fans  cannot  accept  even constructive criticism  and  merrily  pound on, reminding us at every turn to " Keep the Faith" .  I am a St.Johnstone supporter, I will continue to support my team, whatever league they are in as I and many others have for many years but  if the team are not winning games, if the team are not scoring goals and if some of the players no longer look  up to the job, I  refuse to just bury my head in the sand and  claim " everythings fine" and "nothing to see here"

Everything is far from fine, but by fitbas very nature, there is an opportunity to  pull out of the tailspin. I hope that the manager, the players and the board  make it happen..  I hope they do. I hope I am wrong and that the others are right but  I can't see  where it's coming from..

This! Yes we have had a number of bad patches over past few seasons but this decline feels different and more worrying. The team has that look about them. The lack of quality in the squad makes it difficult to see where the turn around will come from. The start to the season masked all of this but could not be sustained and like the Ghost I love my team and always will do but we are in trouble and don't kid yourselves that we are not

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I don't have a petty personal vendetta ,dislike,hate or anything else.

I do criticise the fact that we have gone 4 seasons & not signed a decent striker.

I do criticise the fact that we have wasted wages on guys that never play.

I do criticise the fact that (I think) he has signed good players wasted them in the wrong position.

I do criticise the fact that we were beat by a poor team in Europe & we have shitfested nearly every game & supplied zero entertainment.

We also took half our support to Dundee & Edinburgh & got beat by poor teams.

I know you do plenty of criticising.  Do you ever stop criticising to consider the good things that Tommy Wright has done for St Johnstone?  Many more positives than negatives during his tenure as far as I am concerned.  We have had a poor run virtually every one of the seasons Tommy has been  manager and we have finished 6th, 4th, 4th and 4th in that time as well as winning the cup.  Tommy deserves the chance to end this run and I'm sure he will get that chance, and I'm also sure he will get the team winning again.

It's obvious you think he should be sacked.  Who do you think should be his replacement? 

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I love it  when someone comes in here and gives their opinion and then the usual suspects try to disrespect that persons opinion by (a) calling them a panic merchant (or words to the effect)  (b) simply mocking them or (c) very occasionally  trying to present a counter argument.

 

Herts has got some valid points and I agree with a lot of what he's said.  NOBODY wants the manager sacked. NOBODY wants to see the team  going downhill. NOBODY wants to see loyal players  moved on.. but the simple fact is that we have an aging squad . Many of them are on the way down and the team does need major surgery. We  really really needed a striker but for whatever reason all we got was Denny Johnstone who is  ( on what I have seen of him  ) pretty hopeless at this level.  We all hope that things pick up but some of us see something this year we have not seen for a long time. We see a team in decline.

Some fans  cannot  accept  even constructive criticism  and  merrily  pound on, reminding us at every turn to " Keep the Faith" .  I am a St.Johnstone supporter, I will continue to support my team, whatever league they are in as I and many others have for many years but  if the team are not winning games, if the team are not scoring goals and if some of the players no longer look  up to the job, I  refuse to just bury my head in the sand and  claim " everythings fine" and "nothing to see here"

Everything is far from fine, but by fitbas very nature, there is an opportunity to  pull out of the tailspin. I hope that the manager, the players and the board  make it happen..  I hope they do. I hope I am wrong and that the others are right but  I can't see  where it's coming from..

I' m willing to accept comstructive criticism.  The issue at the moment is that a lot of the criticism is NOT constructive.   

You are right that people are entitled to criticise.  No-one said that wasn't their right.   By the same token however other are entitled to choose to remain patient and maintain belief in the manager and players. 

To say no-one wants the manager sacked is wrong though.  There are certainly posters who want Tommy gone.

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Tbf TW does seem to be addressing the squad age. Clark, Comrie, Shaughnessy, Scougall, Wotherspoon all regulars under him. Gilchrist, Gordon, Thomson, all get game time too. 

Replacing players like Millar and MacLean should maybe have been addressed by now, but our budget maybe doesn't allow us that luxury 

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5 games without a goal is bad but in isolation can just be a blip. My concern is that even when winning earlier in the season we were really really poor. This run has been coming for a while. 

The frustrating thing is that every fan realised we needed a striker in pre season. It was glaring. Instead we gave an underperforming striker a extended deal, loaned him out and signed a striker we ALL knew would be a haddy.

The fact we have gone 5 games without a goal and he's not had a sniff tells you all.

Unfortunately this decision and our retention policy of midfielders is coming home to roost.

The Celtic game comes at a bad time. It's normally a free hit but this time we have pressure and we need to get something, even if its just a goal or two to get the monkey off our backs.

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I know you do plenty of criticising.  Do you ever stop criticising to consider the good things that Tommy Wright has done for St Johnstone?  Many more positives than negatives during his tenure as far as I am concerned.  We have had a poor run virtually every one of the seasons Tommy has been  manager and we have finished 6th, 4th, 4th and 4th in that time as well as winning the cup.  Tommy deserves the chance to end this run and I'm sure he will get that chance, and I'm also sure he will get the team winning again.

It's obvious you think he should be sacked.  Who do you think should be his replacement? 

If you can find a post by me that says I want him sacked I would be grateful.

I am over the moon that Tommy has got us in the top 6 for past 4 seasons.

It is this season that I am unhappy with & no matter what he has done for us ,Surely we can discuss what is going wrong this season without being demonized.

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I love it  when someone comes in here and gives their opinion and then the usual suspects try to disrespect that persons opinion by (a) calling them a panic merchant (or words to the effect)  (b) simply mocking them or (c) very occasionally  trying to present a counter argument.

We all hope that things pick up but some of us see something this year we have not seen for a long time. We see a team in decline.

Some fans  cannot  accept  even constructive criticism  and  merrily  pound on, reminding us at every turn to " Keep the Faith" .  I am a St.Johnstone supporter, I will continue to support my team, whatever league they are in as I and many others have for many years but  if the team are not winning games, if the team are not scoring goals and if some of the players no longer look  up to the job, I  refuse to just bury my head in the sand and  claim " everythings fine" and "nothing to see here"

 

Herts has every right to voice his concerns, but I don't really see many folk shooting him down in flames, and certainly not mocking him. Most people after his post were just voicing counter arguments.

Im not sure why the team is necessarily in decline. Yes a few players have been out of form, and we definitely need some different options in attack, but there's far more younger players getting a chance.  Our support have been calling for it for a while now, so maybe part of the trade-off is poorer results for a while til they're established?

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December 2015 - March 2016 (season before last)

The run went LDLDLLLWLDL

Over a three month period, that's a record of W1 D3 L7 and we failed to score in 6 of the 11 matches.

 

Saints 0 Celtic 3

Saints 0 Hearts 0

Motherwell 2 Saints 0

Saints 0 Hamilton 0

Celtic 3 Saints 1

Saints 3 Aberdeen 4

Dundee 2 Saints 0

Saints 2 Motherwell 1

Partick 2 Saints 0

Aberdeen 1 Saints 1

Saints 1 Partick 2

 

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If you can find a post by me that says I want him sacked I would be grateful.

I am over the moon that Tommy has got us in the top 6 for past 4 seasons.

It is this season that I am unhappy with & no matter what he has done for us ,Surely we can discuss what is going wrong this season without being demonized.

You don't have to say "I want Wright sacked " to make it clear that would be your preferred option.  You constantly touts him for Dundee United for some strange reason.  You also make factually incorrect or misleading posts about him.  (e.g. your post in the Hearts thread about only 2 of the starting line-up being signed by Tommy.  A post that was laughably incorrect)

I am not demonising you. Merely expressing an different opinion. 

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