Celtic Allocation for Betfred Cup

[PauloPerth]

12 hours ago, ScottMann said:

What a sad state of affairs this is even being discussed. The majority of the people of Perth may not give a **** but why piss off the few that do and alienate even more of them? It's a home cup tie. Normal rules should apply, end of story.

For the financially concerned, the best way to 'maximise income' from this game is to win it and get into the semi-finals where the rewards will be substantially more than bowing down to an extra few thousand IRA promoters.

 

4 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Why not give them the whole stadium at £30 a ticket and make an absolutely bomb? Their fans would clearly do it since they're so much better than ours? 

Really disappointed to see you heading down this route tbh, I'd have thought you'd have understood the psychology behind not moving home fans for important games. The Saints player will spend the build up believing they can beat Celtic as our grass they're playing on, our stadium, only to be met with a wall of Celtic fans surrounding them. 

They deserve better. 

I take it you've both been to home matches with Celtic in recently years?  It's already effectively a 'home' game for them due to numbers and noise. If you're telling me we're only going to give them 1000 tickets and have a mostly empty stadium so we outnumber them and have an advantage then **** aye I'm up for that.  But we're not. We're talking about giving them 7000 instead of 4800, when we will likely have about 2000 there either way.

Just to emphasise the point I made in the long post higher up; I want us to win this game and get to the semi-finals. I genuinely think we've got a good chance of doing so.  Them having 2200 more fans makes little difference to that.  But if it means we get a quality central midfielder in then I'll deal with letting some rancid bigot sit in the East Stand for a one off game.

I agree with Jets post higher up that Saints fans concentrated together in the Main rather than spread out might make a decent bit of noise. I'd also love it if the young team turned up with their drum and sat right behind the Celtic dugout and belted out tunes everytime Rodgers tried to shout instructions.  Nobody's talking about lying down to them here.

I remember being at McDiarmid in the early years when all the OF got was 1800 tickets in the North Stand with three stands packed full of Saints fans; it was brilliant.  As much as I'd love that to be the case, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

RG I don't know what you're talking about giving them the whole stadium? Are you suggesting Saints fans will miss out if we give Celtic fans 3 stands? I would love us to outnumber them, and if I thought there was any chance of it then no way would I give them more tickets. 

And yes, this game is after the window shuts, but the money can be made available as we will know roughly how much we will make from the game. That's generally how you budget.

 

We've got a few really exciting players this season: Watt, Wright, Scougall, Kennedy and have a very promising defence as well.  It could be the most exciting team to watch for a good few seasons.  I think the missing central midfielder is so important to us kicking on and having an outstanding season if we can keep players fit. If not, i think we'll be safe but Bottom Six again, which is fair enough but we are close to being able to push for a lot more.

 

[Saint GB]

Absolute nonsense 

1) there won’t be anything near 7000 fans, Celtic will get there usual 4500 - as it’s a cup game and not in the season ticket book you’ll be lucky if there is 1800 paying home fans there - 

 

2) “ give them the more tickets to make a few bob more “  . Would rather see a half empty stadium. It’s a bonus match for the club in terms of revenue anyway . It will be on the tv too so already made extra  cash 

People need to start realising we’re not a diddy  we championship side desperate for cash to stay afloat. We should be playing this game to win and get through not selling our soul and giving Celtic 3/4 of the stadium 

 

Embaressed people would even consider it - we have too many small club menatality fans 

 

 

[PauloPerth]

10 minutes ago, Saint GB said:

Absolute nonsense 

1) there won’t be anything near 7000 fans, Celtic will get there usual 4500 - as it’s a cup game and not in the season ticket book you’ll be lucky if there is 1800 paying home fans there - 

 

2) “ give them the more tickets to make a few bob more “  . Would rather see a half empty stadium. It’s a bonus match for the club in terms of revenue anyway . It will be on the tv too so already made extra  cash 

People need to start realising we’re not a diddy  we championship side desperate for cash to stay afloat. We should be playing this game to win and get through not selling our soul and giving Celtic 3/4 of the stadium 

 

Embaressed people would even consider it - we have too many small club menatality fans 

 

 

 

[Guest ScottMann]

42 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

I take it you've both been to home matches with Celtic in recently years?  It's already effectively a 'home' game for them due to numbers and noise. If you're telling me we're only going to give them 1000 tickets and have a mostly empty stadium so we outnumber them and have an advantage then **** aye I'm up for that.  But we're not. We're talking about giving them 7000 instead of 4800, when we will likely have about 2000 there either way.

Just to emphasise the point I made in the long post higher up; I want us to win this game and get to the semi-finals. I genuinely think we've got a good chance of doing so.  Them having 2200 more fans makes little difference to that.  But if it means we get a quality central midfielder in then I'll deal with letting some rancid bigot sit in the East Stand for a one off game.

I agree with Jets post higher up that Saints fans concentrated together in the Main rather than spread out might make a decent bit of noise. I'd also love it if the young team turned up with their drum and sat right behind the Celtic dugout and belted out tunes everytime Rodgers tried to shout instructions.  Nobody's talking about lying down to them here.

I remember being at McDiarmid in the early years when all the OF got was 1800 tickets in the North Stand with three stands packed full of Saints fans; it was brilliant.  As much as I'd love that to be the case, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

RG I don't know what you're talking about giving them the whole stadium? Are you suggesting Saints fans will miss out if we give Celtic fans 3 stands? I would love us to outnumber them, and if I thought there was any chance of it then no way would I give them more tickets. 

And yes, this game is after the window shuts, but the money can be made available as we will know roughly how much we will make from the game. That's generally how you budget.

 

We've got a few really exciting players this season: Watt, Wright, Scougall, Kennedy and have a very promising defence as well.  It could be the most exciting team to watch for a good few seasons.  I think the missing central midfielder is so important to us kicking on and having an outstanding season if we can keep players fit. If not, i think we'll be safe but Bottom Six again, which is fair enough but we are close to being able to push for a lot more.

I've been to many games against both sets of bigots but stopped when they started selling sectarianism. I prefer my football without 17th century Ireland and terrorists being celebrated these days. From what we've been told it looks like I'm far from the only Saints supporter with that viewpoint.

I just find it a sad reflection on where football is that many people's first reaction to this draw has been how can we screw as much money out of Celtic fans as possible instead of we're at home in a quarter final tie, we've done well against them in League Cup ties, we've got Tony Watt scoring again and he'll probably be keen to score against his team, we've a more attacking line up that could cause their far from perfect defence problems and hey, we've actually got not too bad a chance of beating them. 

Give Steve Brown his due. He's certainly done a great job at managing fans expectations and and priorities.

Edited August 20, 2018 by ScottMann

[Saint GB]

14 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

 

Not sure what’s worse, you wanting to give 7000 tickets to Celtic or the fact you think selling an extra few thousand tickets is going to mean TW gets to sign a central midfielder we desperately need

[Lang Toon Saintee]

2 hours ago, Abernethy Saint said:

Don’t think that will be far off, except policing costs for an OF game mean that the staging costs might be higher. but remember revenue isn’t profit. There’s a sh it load of weekly, monthly and annual bills that any revenue from any one game has to contribute to. The actual additional free money generated by this one fixture will be a fraction of the revenue. It is money that Saints may not have assumed they would get (it depends on what their budget assumptions were in terms of cup progress). So there might be some extra. Will Tommy get it? I’d guess yes, as long as the boiler doesn’t pack in.

Agreed although I was deducting around 20k for staging the game.And remember this is Additional Money.The budgets for the running costs would have been projected and allocated prior to this game,so yes, the figure that I estimated would in fact be pretty much all profit.Tommy would like a quality midfielder and cover for left back..A decent midfielder would probably want around 60K ?? And a young loan signing(probably for six months depending on Easton's situation) say 30k.So TW could complete his squad building and still boost the £2,000,000  in"Broon"'s piggybank by around 50K.

[Abernethy Saint]

I’m not disagreeing entirely with you, but businesses don’t run like that. You can’t treat any unexpected income as a windfall you can immediately spend. What if Saints budgeted to finish 8th, and finish 10th? What if there are horrendous injuries, and emergency cover has to be paid for? What if the boiler does pack in? The money goes in the pot, and if the pot overall looks a bit more full, they might give Tommy some cash. Or they might redecorate the boardroom!

[Lang Toon Saintee]

19 minutes ago, Abernethy Saint said:

I’m not disagreeing entirely with you, but businesses don’t run like that. You can’t treat any unexpected income as a windfall you can immediately spend. What if Saints budgeted to finish 8th, and finish 10th? What if there are horrendous injuries, and emergency cover has to be paid for? What if the boiler does pack in? The money goes in the pot, and if the pot overall looks a bit more full, they might give Tommy some cash. Or they might redecorate the boardroom!

Maybe the pot is now so full that some of the money will be needed to fund a bigger pot.I'm quite sure that the 2,000,000 in the bank is there to cover such non playing emergencies. 

 

[Abernethy Saint]

Think that’s to pay for 2 or 3 seasons in the Championship, but don’t tell anyone I said that.......

[PauloPerth]

1 hour ago, ScottMann said:

I've been to many games against both sets of bigots but stopped when they started selling sectarianism. I prefer my football without 17th century Ireland and terrorists being celebrated these days. From what we've been told it looks like I'm far from the only Saints supporter with that viewpoint.

I just find it a sad reflection on where football is that many people's first reaction to this draw has been how can we screw as much money out of Celtic fans as possible instead of we're at home in a quarter final tie, we've done well against them in League Cup ties, we've got Tony Watt scoring again and he'll probably be keen to score against his team, we've a more attacking line up that could cause their far from perfect defence problems and hey, we've actually got not too bad a chance of beating them. 

Give Steve Brown his due. He's certainly done a great job at managing fans expectations and and priorities.

I agree with most of what you put. The bit about all of this is I don't really get is the fact that we already suffer more than twice as many OF fans as home fans everytime we play them, so I don't really see the huge jump from them having two thirds of the crowd to three quarters.

Cant speak for anyone else, but it certainly wasn't the first thing I thought of after the draw. My initial reaction was a bit gutted cos i wanted an easier team (Ayr) but then I also came round to the attitude of well if we want to win the cup it's probably better to play them at McDiarmid than at hampden. Plus it means our semi-final/ Final could be far better days out with no OF there. 

We watched some pretty turgid football at home last season, and I think it played a big part in deterring people from coming along. As I keep saying, I think a quality central midfield signing will make a huge difference to us for the rest of the season, in terms of results and style of play. It might even mean in future big games we can attract far more of our own supporters along. We might even be able to get someone in before the tie.

Anyway, I think this is one of those issues where neither side is going to come over to the others' point of view and it'll go round and round...

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, Saint GB said:

Not sure what’s worse, you wanting to give 7000 tickets to Celtic or the fact you think selling an extra few thousand tickets is going to mean TW gets to sign a central midfielder we desperately need

  Well yes, but part of my condition to Broon for shifting over to the Main Stand is that plenty of the match income is made available for this star signing.

If he confirms that in a statement when the club announce ticket details for the game, then he's got a deal.

[Guest ScottMann]

40 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

I agree with most of what you put. The bit about all of this is I don't really get is the fact that we already suffer more than twice as many OF fans as home fans everytime we play them, so I don't really see the huge jump from them having two thirds of the crowd to three quarters.

Cant speak for anyone else, but it certainly wasn't the first thing I thought of after the draw. My initial reaction was a bit gutted cos i wanted an easier team (Ayr) but then I also came round to the attitude of well if we want to win the cup it's probably better to play them at McDiarmid than at hampden. Plus it means our semi-final/ Final could be far better days out with no OF there. 

We watched some pretty turgid football at home last season, and I think it played a big part in deterring people from coming along. As I keep saying, I think a quality central midfield signing will make a huge difference to us for the rest of the season, in terms of results and style of play. It might even mean in future big games we can attract far more of our own supporters along. We might even be able to get someone in before the tie.

Anyway, I think this is one of those issues where neither side is going to come over to the others' point of view and it'll go round and round...

Putting aside the timing of the allocation discussion, the main problem with moving Saints fans is they've shown in the past it really pisses them off. Some stopped going and apparently haven't been back. Doing it again is just showing a complete disregard for the supporters and is likely to alienate even more. Instead of selling out, Saints should be using a home quarter final to find ways to get some of the missing fans back. 

[south inch]

Can't help but think this debate could be a bit academic.  This is a midweek game likely to be on TV.  Celtic are not playing well and their Board appear to have locked up the biscuit tin.  There is a risk that they might not make the Europa League stages and worst of all they might be turned over by Sevco on 2nd Sept.  Celtic fans are more likely to take the huff than their pals at Ayebroke.  It would not surprise me if they failed to sell their usual 4,800 allocation so talk of giving them 7,000 or more could be fanciful.

Course if they sign Messi before 31st August!

[rickardo]

Don’t know why were even considering giving that lot heaps of tickets for “extra dosh” we still wouldn’t get a midfielder anyway , the money would be put in the biscuit tin and thrown under Broons  bed.Give them their usual allocation .

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

All the folk not going and blaming the sectarian shite are making excuses.

 

You're not going because it'll be on tv and it is far more likely well get pumped.

[PauloPerth]

46 minutes ago, ScottMann said:

 Instead of selling out, Saints should be using a home quarter final to find ways to get some of the missing fans back. 

Sadly there doesn't seem to be an obvious way of doing this that has a significant impact.  We've made some exciting signings, got through the group stages of the league cup and our first home league fixture of the season was an exciting looking match against Hibs. About 2400 home fans turned up.

south inch could well be right enough though, they maybe won't need or want any extra tickets as they can be quite fickle when they're not winning every week.

 

[blueheaven]

30 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Sadly there doesn't seem to be an obvious way of doing this that has a significant impact.  We've made some exciting signings, got through the group stages of the league cup and our first home league fixture of the season was an exciting looking match against Hibs. About 2400 home fans turned up.

 

At the risk of taking this off topic, it's not about coming up with a one-off idea to bring people to a particular game. The way I see it is that, over the last four years or so, there are a lot of things Saints could have done, and haven't, that would have helped to improve our attendances overall. (By the way I agree with you about the allocation for the match.)

[Guest ScottMann]

44 minutes ago, andy rhodes fancy watch said:

All the folk not going and blaming the sectarian shite are making excuses.

 

You're not going because it'll be on tv and it is far more likely well get pumped.

Like ****. Stick to dribbling on about things you actually know.

[Havana Saint]

If folk fae Perth came out and backed their team, we wouldnae be debating this. That's the issue and let's get Fair City Unity back for goodness sake.

[Papa Jack]

1 hour ago, andy rhodes fancy watch said:

All the folk not going and blaming the sectarian shite are making excuses.

 

You're not going because it'll be on tv and it is far more likely well get pumped.

I agree with this first point too. I hate both sides of old firm, and all that comes with it, but I've never thought of not going. I know it's been well documented that folk miss the games but I was genuinely surprised at the number. 

Genuine question here...is it because of the songs or the singers?

 

[PauloPerth]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

At the risk of taking this off topic, it's not about coming up with a one-off idea to bring people to a particular game. The way I see it is that, over the last four years or so, there are a lot of things Saints could have done, and haven't, that would have helped to improve our attendances overall. (By the way I agree with you about the allocation for the match.)

Agree, the days/ weeks after the cup win being the biggest lost opportunity.

On the flip side, could the club argue they've given us 5 out of 6 seasons in Europe, 6 consecutive top six finishes, regular victories against traditionally much bigger clubs, as well as our first ever major trophy?  We also offer free entry to under 12's.  I think it would be reasonable for the club to expect an increase in crowds on the back of all of this.

[Guest ScottMann]

3 hours ago, blueheaven said:

At the risk of taking this off topic, it's not about coming up with a one-off idea to bring people to a particular game. 

Got to start somewhere.

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

3 hours ago, ScottMann said:

Like ****. Stick to dribbling on about things you actually know.

Like you do on here? You're a funny guy.

[slf]

11 hours ago, andy rhodes fancy watch said:

Like you do on here? You're a funny guy.

Not as funny as you

[Guest ScottMann]

15 hours ago, andy rhodes fancy watch said:

Like you do on here? You're a funny guy.

You're a ****ing idiot but it takes all sorts.

You and your fellow supposed mind readers shouldn't give up your day jobs.