RandomGuy Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, SaintJet said: You should apply for a job Random you seem to have all the answers. I think the reality of running a club with limited resources is a completely different. St Johnstone are a top flight Scottish side, have been for the past decade. Their turnover is in the millions and they have £2m in the bank. We have less scouts than Annan Athletic. Direct your anger at me if you want, but the clubs lack of professionalism in terms of recruitment is obvious. This time last season we sat 3 points off 3rd and only needed replacements for Shaughnessy and Watt. Since then we've approached Gallagher, missed out, then signed Vihmann on loan six months later. Edited December 9, 2019 by RandomGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 42 minutes ago, SaintJet said: You should apply for a job Random you seem to have all the answers. I think the reality of running a club with limited resources is a completely different. He’s only stating what he thinks. Most of it was public knowledge at the time. I can’t disagree with it. It seems that our board view things as a cost and not an investment. It does appear that Motherwell are so far ahead in this area yet their (limited) resources cannot be too dissimilar. Shaggy Jenkins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger Bakers rebel army Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 26 minutes ago, andrew said: He’s only stating what he thinks. Most of it was public knowledge at the time. I can’t disagree with it. It seems that our board view things as a cost and not an investment. It does appear that Motherwell are so far ahead in this area yet their (limited) resources cannot be too dissimilar. Motherwell is owned by the fans, nearly 3,000 paying monthly into the well society. They seem to have generated the local club profile we should have pushed after the cup win. Time for the secret 7,000 to take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, RandomGuy said: We identified Declan Gallagher, and literally nobody else. Meant that when the Gallagher deal fell through, as deals do, we had no other targets so started from scratch, we didnt sign anyone else until Vihmann joined on loan at the end of July. TW found out in February Gallagher had agreed to join Motherwell, are you telling me we approached a number of similar targets, none of who's names reached the press (remembering that even the deal for Wallace Duffy, a complete nobody at the time, was rumoured for months before he joined) and they all said no due to things out of his control? Or is it more likely we have no list of targets, and simply go for players the manager rates, and when one of them fall down, we start from scratch with TW asking his friends and agents for potential players? Motherwell are light years ahead of us. They have four scouts around the UK watching games. One of their senior CBs suffered a major injury on 27th July, within a week they had a CB on trial who signed for them just a month after that. Hes stepped in and looked comfortable at this level. They done this before with Cedric Kipre who got them £1m previously. That's what we should be doing, we should have a main target, and a list of fall back targets, all in place months before a window comes around, all players the manager wants and are gettable. We lost Shaughnessy, lost out on Gallagher, and ended up with Vihmann on loan 6 months later. Its embarrassing. We are arguing the same point here. We had numerous targets that never came here in the last year and have gone on to be solid players at our level. My point was even if we did have scouts etc we still don't have the ability to translate that into signatures. Edited December 9, 2019 by garydavidson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, garydavidson said: We are arguing the same point here. We had numerous targets that never came here in the last year and have gone on to be solid players at our level. My point was even if we did have scouts etc we still don't have the ability to translate that into signatures. We didnt have numerous targets, that's my point. We should have a list of potential players 6 months in advance, at least. In January we moved for Gallagher, we missed out and didnt sign a replacement until July, someone we hadnt even heard of until March. Theres no forward planning. Johnny B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, RandomGuy said: We didnt have numerous targets, that's my point. We should have a list of potential players 6 months in advance, at least. In January we moved for Gallagher, we missed out and didnt sign a replacement until July, someone we hadnt even heard of until March. Theres no forward planning. Indeed not numerous targets for one position but numerous throughout the team, it did seem Motherwell signed them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, garydavidson said: Indeed not numerous targets for one position but numerous throughout the team, it did seem Motherwell signed them all. "Numerous throughout the team"? Will the knowledge we knew Shaughnessy and Watt were away in February, had obviously decided Easton and Alston were to be let go off, and knew Gallgher and Polworth weren't options. May was still playing regularly at Aberdeen, and Holt playing regularly for Fleetwood, and we'd never heard of Vihmann. What were the club actually doing at that time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, RandomGuy said: "Numerous throughout the team"? Will the knowledge we knew Shaughnessy and Watt were away in February, had obviously decided Easton and Alston were to be let go off, and knew Gallgher and Polworth weren't options. May was still playing regularly at Aberdeen, and Holt playing regularly for Fleetwood, and we'd never heard of Vihmann. What were the club actually doing at that time? Wasn't it the case that we offered Easton a new contract? (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/4209758/st-johnstone-tommy-wright-brian-easton-contract/) Don't recall you, or many others seeing a massive worry in Alston going? Gallagher (replacement for Shaughbnessy) and Polworth were targeted but turned us down. Tommy watched Vihmann in March. Holt was supposedly a long term target for Tommy as was May. From the outside it certainly seems the targets are thing on the ground but you seem to be missing my point - even when we have targets we can't get them or in the case of the last window spent the whole time trying to get them. It is a very eggs in one basket system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 There seems to be an awful lot of speculation and assumption being passed off as fact in some of these last few posts. I very much doubt anyone on here genuinely knows how many players Tommy has targeted, and had scouted, and enquired about signing, over the past year. south inch, MrBored, andrew and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixties saintee Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, blueheaven said: There seems to be an awful lot of speculation and assumption being passed off as fact in some of these last few posts. I very much doubt anyone on here genuinely knows how many players Tommy has targeted, and had scouted, and enquired about signing, over the past year. Wheres slaphead ( Kojac) when you need him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 4 hours ago, blueheaven said: There seems to be an awful lot of speculation and assumption being passed off as fact in some of these last few posts. I very much doubt anyone on here genuinely knows how many players Tommy has targeted, and had scouted, and enquired about signing, over the past year. Forgive me for refusing to believe we actively wanted Vihmann and Duffy as our CB back up players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE LARK SAINT Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 52 minutes ago, RandomGuy said: Forgive me for refusing to believe we actively wanted Vihmann and Duffy as our CB back up players. RandomGuy. You state a lot of facts in posts above, I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but need to ask How you know all this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, THE LARK SAINT said: RandomGuy. You state a lot of facts in posts above, I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but need to ask How you know all this? Most are what TW himself has admitted. 18 months ago he admitted we have no scouts, something I've had PMd to me too. TW actually broke the news of Gallagher joining Motherwell, in the first days of March. Duffy admitted in an interview TW told him he'd be fighting with Foster for the right back spot when he agreed to join. Vihmann admitted TW seen him in March against Northern Ireland, and that he only became available when Staebek changed manager in June, one month he before joined us. Shaughnessy had been rejecting contracts since November, confirmed by TW in an interview. Watt claimed on Twitter he rejected a contract in January and was then forced out the first team picture. It was widely reported Blair Alston wasnt offered anything until May. Over a month after Polworth, rumoured to be a target by Robert Thomson, was confirmed as joining Motherwell. Just me, but I look at Shaughnessy rejecting deals in November, Gallagher being targeted, Gallagher agreeing to join Motherwell in February, TW watching Vihmann playing against NI in March, Vihmann becoming available in June, Vihmann signing for us in July, and feel likes it's a case of them missing out on a ****ing obvious target, them having no idea where to go until TW spots someone at a NI game who he keeps an eye on, before getting them in because they're available and we've no idea who else is out there. I'd actually prefer it if we were in this situation due to negligence tbh, the idea that pre-planning brought us Duffy and Vihmann as back up CBs is terrifying. Edited December 9, 2019 by RandomGuy Johnny B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranmere Saintee Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 Fantasy world of ‘I’m in the know’ has taken over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, Tranmere Saintee said: Fantasy world of ‘I’m in the know’ has taken over again. I've literally pointed out every single source I've taken things from. From paper interviews that you yourself can search for and find within a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, RandomGuy said: I've literally pointed out every single source I've taken things from. From paper interviews that you yourself can search for and find within a minute. I admire your efforts Randoom. I don’t know how you find it all, but that was a good explanation. Can’t fault your assumptions. You didn’t fabricate them as many others do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.B.B:- Adz Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, andrew said: I don’t know how you find it all, but that was a good explanation. He writes them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 I recall comments by fans of good recruitment during summer. Can't say I was worried. Work in progress, doesnt always gel straight away. Can't legislate for players not performing on the pitch. Too many just missing their mojo. Need to get rid of the bad apples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 Wright said recently on Saints TV recently that he targetted Gallagher and after that fell through, 'circumstances changed' in respect of the budget available for a centre back. Not sure what those circumstances might be - possibly the new deals for Kerr and Clark? - but I think you have to take the manager at his word. You have to remember that at one point we were trying to sign Gallagher and Shaughnessy still had an offer on the table to stay. Those players signings/staying on probably mean no VIhmann or Duffy and probably mean no Holt too when you look at how many other options we have in the centre of the park. It's hard to know what's happened and why the summer window turned into such a farce. At this point it doesn't really matter as long as things are fixed in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy rhodes fancy watch Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, Kyle said: It's hard to know what's happened and why the summer window turned into such a farce. At this point it doesn't really matter as long as things are fixed in January. None of truly know the ins and outs of everything that goes on at McD. Tommy may well be taking care of a lot more shite than most of the other managers in the division and Broon may be cramming the work of 3 people into a 3 day week all to save cash for an extra couple of players on the payroll. This is all fine when it's working well, as soon as it isn't it can quickly get on top of even the best of folk. This is why we need proper structure, to maximise the potential of everyone involved, sadly it may take change of ownership for that to happen. garydavidson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 57 minutes ago, andy rhodes fancy watch said: sadly it may take change of ownership for that to happen. I guess we can't expect some one that is bulletproof to change unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 19 hours ago, RandomGuy said: Forgive me for refusing to believe we actively wanted Vihmann and Duffy as our CB back up players. By all means tell us what you believe... what I'm uncomfortable with is the way you try to pass off your beliefs as fact. A helluva lot of what you've just said is basically just you speculating, e.g. "We identified Declan Gallagher, and literally nobody else." Massive assumption. "We didnt have numerous targets, that's my point." How could you possibly know how many targets we had? "We should have a list of potential players 6 months in advance, at least." Maybe we do? I'd think it highly likely there is a constant, ever-changing list of players the manager is interested in, never mind one single list that is prepared six months in advance of a window. "18 months ago he admitted we have no scouts, something I've had PMd to me too." He said we don't have "a proper scouting system" - not that we don't have any scouts at all. As for Lyndon Dykes - maybe Saints did spot him but didn't want him or couldn't get him? I'd suggest it's fairly likely that we didn't go for him because he wasn't the manager's number 1 target at the time when he was available? Nold, SaintJet and Tranmere Saintee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJet Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 hours ago, blueheaven said: By all means tell us what you believe... what I'm uncomfortable with is the way you try to pass off your beliefs as fact. A helluva lot of what you've just said is basically just you speculating, e.g. "We identified Declan Gallagher, and literally nobody else." Massive assumption. "We didnt have numerous targets, that's my point." How could you possibly know how many targets we had? "We should have a list of potential players 6 months in advance, at least." Maybe we do? I'd think it highly likely there is a constant, ever-changing list of players the manager is interested in, never mind one single list that is prepared six months in advance of a window. "18 months ago he admitted we have no scouts, something I've had PMd to me too." He said we don't have "a proper scouting system" - not that we don't have any scouts at all. As for Lyndon Dykes - maybe Saints did spot him but didn't want him or couldn't get him? I'd suggest it's fairly likely that we didn't go for him because he wasn't the manager's number 1 target at the time when he was available? This is exactly where I'm coming from. I'm not disparaging Random's point of view but it is clearly only his point of view not factual and plenty of speculation. blueheaven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 hours ago, blueheaven said: By all means tell us what you believe... what I'm uncomfortable with is the way you try to pass off your beliefs as fact. A helluva lot of what you've just said is basically just you speculating, e.g. "We identified Declan Gallagher, and literally nobody else." Massive assumption. "We didnt have numerous targets, that's my point." How could you possibly know how many targets we had? "We should have a list of potential players 6 months in advance, at least." Maybe we do? I'd think it highly likely there is a constant, ever-changing list of players the manager is interested in, never mind one single list that is prepared six months in advance of a window. "18 months ago he admitted we have no scouts, something I've had PMd to me too." He said we don't have "a proper scouting system" - not that we don't have any scouts at all. As for Lyndon Dykes - maybe Saints did spot him but didn't want him or couldn't get him? I'd suggest it's fairly likely that we didn't go for him because he wasn't the manager's number 1 target at the time when he was available? I'm assuming these things based on the fact we ended up with a back up right back, and shite loanee, as our only options at CB behind Kerr and Gordon. No planning brings you to that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat McGroin Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, RandomGuy said: I'm assuming these things based on the fact we ended up with a back up right back, and shite loanee, as our only options at CB behind Kerr and Gordon. No planning brings you to that situation. To be fair, we might have had 5 targets in each position and missed them all. If we’re outbid when it comes to wages, then we have to keep looking. blueheaven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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