David123

Player contracts and transfers

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9 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

“The staff have been really good since I got here. It’s a lot more professional than what I was used to last year.

“Everything is a lot more organised. I’ve really enjoyed my time so far.

“Already I can see benefits to my game working with the sports scientist here.

“And the coaching and information I’m taking in every training session is definitely affecting my game already and I can see it improving.

“I’m getting my proteins in me, better food and a wee bit more one to one time, more things that are specific to what I need to on the pitch instead of doing it as a group collectively.”

 

How professional do you think Saints come across to prospective signings, considering what happened with May this Summer?

I am in no way defending the Saints set up but I was illustrating that we have identified good targets but not been able to get them. The points in the article seemed to just aim at the recruitment side of problems.

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37 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

I am in no way defending the Saints set up but I was illustrating that we have identified good targets but not been able to get them. The points in the article seemed to just aim at the recruitment side of problems.

We identified Declan Gallagher, and literally nobody else. Meant that when the Gallagher deal fell through, as deals do, we had no other targets so started from scratch, we didnt sign anyone else until Vihmann joined on loan at the end of July.

TW found out in February Gallagher had agreed to join Motherwell, are you telling me we approached a number of similar targets, none of who's names reached the press (remembering that even the deal for Wallace Duffy, a complete nobody at the time, was rumoured for months before he joined) and they all said no due to things out of his control? Or is it more likely we have no list of targets, and simply go for players the manager rates, and when one of them fall down, we start from scratch with TW asking his friends and agents for potential players?

Motherwell are light years ahead of us. They have four scouts around the UK watching games. One of their senior CBs suffered a major injury on 27th July, within a week they had a CB on trial who signed for them just a month after that. Hes stepped in and looked comfortable at this level. They done this before with Cedric Kipre who got them £1m previously.

That's what we should be doing, we should have a main target, and a list of fall back targets, all in place months before a window comes around, all players the manager wants and are gettable. We lost Shaughnessy, lost out on Gallagher, and ended up with Vihmann on loan 6 months later. 

Its embarrassing. 

Edited by RandomGuy

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22 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

We identified Declan Gallagher, and literally nobody else. Meant that when the Gallagher deal fell through, as deals do, we had no other targets so started from scratch, we didnt sign anyone else until Vihmann joined on loan at the end of July.

TW found out in February Gallagher had agreed to join Motherwell, are you telling me we approached a number of similar targets, none of who's names reached the press (remembering that even the deal for Wallace Duffy, a complete nobody at the time, was rumoured for months before he joined) and they all said no due to things out of his control? Or is it more likely we have no list of targets, and simply go for players the manager rates, and when one of them fall down, we start from scratch with TW asking his friends and agents for potential players?

Motherwell are light years ahead of us. They have four scouts around the UK watching games. One of their senior CBs suffered a major injury on 27th July, within a week they had a CB on trial who signed for them just a month after that. Hes stepped in and looked comfortable at this level. They done this before with Cedric Kipre who got them £1m previously.

That's what we should be doing, we should have a main target, and a list of fall back targets, all in place months before a window comes around, all players the manager wants and are gettable. We lost Shaughnessy, lost out on Gallagher, and ended up with Vihmann on loan 6 months later. 

Its embarrassing. 

You should apply for a job Random you seem to have all the answers.

I think the reality of running a club with limited resources is a completely different.

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39 minutes ago, SaintJet said:

You should apply for a job Random you seem to have all the answers.

I think the reality of running a club with limited resources is a completely different.

St Johnstone are a top flight Scottish side, have been for the past decade. Their turnover is in the millions and they have £2m in the bank.

We have less scouts than Annan Athletic. 

Direct your anger at me if you want, but the clubs lack of professionalism in terms of recruitment is obvious. This time last season we sat 3 points off 3rd and only needed replacements for Shaughnessy and Watt. Since then we've approached Gallagher, missed out, then signed Vihmann on loan six months later.

Edited by RandomGuy

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42 minutes ago, SaintJet said:

You should apply for a job Random you seem to have all the answers.

I think the reality of running a club with limited resources is a completely different.

He’s only stating what he thinks. Most of it was public knowledge at the time. I can’t disagree with it. It seems that our board view things as a cost and not an investment. It does appear that Motherwell are so far ahead in this area yet their (limited) resources cannot be too dissimilar.

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26 minutes ago, andrew said:

He’s only stating what he thinks. Most of it was public knowledge at the time. I can’t disagree with it. It seems that our board view things as a cost and not an investment. It does appear that Motherwell are so far ahead in this area yet their (limited) resources cannot be too dissimilar.

Motherwell is owned by the fans, nearly 3,000 paying monthly into the well society. 

They seem to have generated the local club profile we should have pushed after the cup win. 

Time for the secret 7,000 to take over. 

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2 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

We identified Declan Gallagher, and literally nobody else. Meant that when the Gallagher deal fell through, as deals do, we had no other targets so started from scratch, we didnt sign anyone else until Vihmann joined on loan at the end of July.

TW found out in February Gallagher had agreed to join Motherwell, are you telling me we approached a number of similar targets, none of who's names reached the press (remembering that even the deal for Wallace Duffy, a complete nobody at the time, was rumoured for months before he joined) and they all said no due to things out of his control? Or is it more likely we have no list of targets, and simply go for players the manager rates, and when one of them fall down, we start from scratch with TW asking his friends and agents for potential players?

Motherwell are light years ahead of us. They have four scouts around the UK watching games. One of their senior CBs suffered a major injury on 27th July, within a week they had a CB on trial who signed for them just a month after that. Hes stepped in and looked comfortable at this level. They done this before with Cedric Kipre who got them £1m previously.

That's what we should be doing, we should have a main target, and a list of fall back targets, all in place months before a window comes around, all players the manager wants and are gettable. We lost Shaughnessy, lost out on Gallagher, and ended up with Vihmann on loan 6 months later. 

Its embarrassing. 

We are arguing the same point here. We had numerous targets that never came here in the last year and have gone on to be solid players at our level. My point was even if we did have scouts etc we still don't have the ability to translate that into signatures. 

Edited by garydavidson

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49 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

We are arguing the same point here. We had numerous targets that never came here in the last year and have gone on to be solid players at our level. My point was even if we did have scouts etc we still don't have the ability to translate that into signatures. 

We didnt have numerous targets, that's my point. We should have a list of potential players 6 months in advance, at least. 

In January we moved for Gallagher, we missed out and didnt sign a replacement until July, someone we hadnt even heard of until March.

Theres no forward planning.

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4 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

We didnt have numerous targets, that's my point. We should have a list of potential players 6 months in advance, at least. 

In January we moved for Gallagher, we missed out and didnt sign a replacement until July, someone we hadnt even heard of until March.

Theres no forward planning.

Indeed not numerous targets for one position but numerous throughout the team, it did seem Motherwell signed them all.

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8 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

Indeed not numerous targets for one position but numerous throughout the team, it did seem Motherwell signed them all.

"Numerous throughout the team"?

Will the knowledge we knew Shaughnessy and Watt were away in February, had obviously decided Easton and Alston were to be let go off, and knew Gallgher and Polworth weren't options. May was still playing regularly at Aberdeen, and Holt playing regularly for Fleetwood, and we'd never heard of Vihmann.

What were the club actually doing at that time?

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1 hour ago, RandomGuy said:

"Numerous throughout the team"?

Will the knowledge we knew Shaughnessy and Watt were away in February, had obviously decided Easton and Alston were to be let go off, and knew Gallgher and Polworth weren't options. May was still playing regularly at Aberdeen, and Holt playing regularly for Fleetwood, and we'd never heard of Vihmann.

What were the club actually doing at that time?

Wasn't it the case that we offered Easton a new contract? (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/4209758/st-johnstone-tommy-wright-brian-easton-contract/)

Don't recall you, or many others seeing a massive worry in Alston going? 

Gallagher (replacement for Shaughbnessy) and Polworth were targeted but turned us down.

Tommy watched Vihmann in March.

Holt was supposedly a long term target for Tommy as was May.

From the outside it certainly seems the targets are thing on the ground but you seem to be missing my point - even when we have targets we can't get them or in the case of the last window spent the whole time trying to get them. It is a very eggs in one basket system.

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There seems to be an awful lot of speculation and assumption being passed off as fact in some of these last few posts. I very much doubt anyone on here genuinely knows how many players Tommy has targeted, and had scouted, and enquired about signing, over the past year.

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3 hours ago, blueheaven said:

There seems to be an awful lot of speculation and assumption being passed off as fact in some of these last few posts. I very much doubt anyone on here genuinely knows how many players Tommy has targeted, and had scouted, and enquired about signing, over the past year.

Wheres slaphead ( Kojac) when you need him

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4 hours ago, blueheaven said:

There seems to be an awful lot of speculation and assumption being passed off as fact in some of these last few posts. I very much doubt anyone on here genuinely knows how many players Tommy has targeted, and had scouted, and enquired about signing, over the past year.

Forgive me for refusing to believe we actively wanted Vihmann and Duffy as our CB back up players.

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52 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Forgive me for refusing to believe we actively wanted Vihmann and Duffy as our CB back up players.

RandomGuy. You state a lot of facts in posts above, I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but need to ask 

How you know all this? 

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22 minutes ago, THE LARK SAINT said:

RandomGuy. You state a lot of facts in posts above, I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but need to ask 

How you know all this? 

Most are what TW himself has admitted. 18 months ago he admitted we have no scouts, something I've had PMd to me too.

TW actually broke the news of Gallagher joining Motherwell, in the first days of March. Duffy admitted in an interview TW told him he'd be fighting with Foster for the right back spot when he agreed to join.

Vihmann admitted TW seen him in March against Northern Ireland, and that he only became available when Staebek changed manager in June, one month he before joined us.

Shaughnessy had been rejecting contracts since November, confirmed by TW in an interview. Watt claimed on Twitter he rejected a contract in January and was then forced out the first team picture.

It was widely reported Blair Alston wasnt offered anything until May. Over a month after Polworth, rumoured to be a target by Robert Thomson, was confirmed as joining Motherwell. 

 

Just me, but I look at Shaughnessy rejecting deals in November, Gallagher being targeted, Gallagher agreeing to join Motherwell in February, TW watching Vihmann playing against NI in March, Vihmann becoming available in June, Vihmann signing for us in July, and feel likes it's a case of them missing out on a ****ing obvious target, them having no idea where to go until TW spots someone at a NI game who he keeps an eye on, before getting them in because they're available and we've no idea who else is out there. 

I'd actually prefer it if we were in this situation due to negligence tbh, the idea that pre-planning brought us Duffy and Vihmann as back up CBs is terrifying.

Edited by RandomGuy

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11 minutes ago, Tranmere Saintee said:

Fantasy world of ‘I’m in the know’ has taken over again.

I've literally pointed out every single source I've taken things from. From paper interviews that you yourself can search for and find within a minute.

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3 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

I've literally pointed out every single source I've taken things from. From paper interviews that you yourself can search for and find within a minute.

I admire your efforts Randoom. I don’t know how you find it all, but that was a good explanation. Can’t fault your assumptions. You didn’t fabricate them as many others do.

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I recall comments by fans of good recruitment during summer.  Can't say I was worried. Work in progress, doesnt always gel straight away.   Can't legislate for players not performing on the pitch.  Too many just missing their mojo. Need to get rid of the bad apples.

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Wright said recently on Saints TV recently that he targetted Gallagher and after that fell through, 'circumstances changed' in respect of the budget available for a centre back. Not sure what those circumstances might be - possibly the new deals for Kerr and Clark? - but I think you have to take the manager at his word. 

You have to remember that at one point we were trying to sign Gallagher and Shaughnessy still had an offer on the table to stay. Those players signings/staying on probably mean no VIhmann or Duffy and probably mean no Holt too when you look at how many other options we have in the centre of the park.

It's hard to know what's happened and why the summer window turned into such a farce. At this point it doesn't really matter as long as things are fixed in January.

 

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22 minutes ago, Kyle said:

It's hard to know what's happened and why the summer window turned into such a farce. At this point it doesn't really matter as long as things are fixed in January.

 

None of truly know the ins and outs of everything that goes on at McD. Tommy may well be taking care of a lot more shite than most of the other managers in the division and Broon may be cramming the work of 3 people into a 3 day week all to save cash for an extra couple of players on the payroll. This is all fine when it's working well, as soon as it isn't it can quickly get on top of even the best of folk. This is why we need proper structure, to maximise the potential of everyone involved, sadly it may take change of ownership for that to happen.

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